It's not the critic's job to add the finishing details.
I never said it was. I merely said it's not necessarily my job either.
Since no one knows any specific attributes of this structure other than vague generalizations (hard to get, limited, etc.), it's gonna be difficult for a lot of people to support, including myself.
Why can't you either support or not support the idea as presented? Offering your support for the OP doesn't automatically offer support for every iteration anyone else comes up with later. And even if it did, this is really just a discussion arena, not some high-class Office of Upgrades for Minecraft. Möjang doesn't even read most of this stuff. The point of posting here-what actually gets done in any case-is to affect and enrich the ideas of the playerbase overall so that it influences the players that Möjang does have contact with, often indirectly. You critics put way too much emphasis on following some exact code of offering suggestions, and you shoot down too many good suggestion opportunities because of it.
I didn't offer more ideas because I didn't have any. If other people have more ideas, this thread is open to them. Already we've seen some. When I suggest an idea I've already put a lot of thought into, I offer more specifics, and when I do, it means I'm pretty rigid on the details and you're not likely to convince me otherwise because I've already put so much thought into it. I choose not to put in details where I don't have details worth putting in. I could sketch up a rough draft of a hatchery, but it would be a waste of my time designing it and your time reading about it because it wouldn't be something I spent a lot of time on, rather it would be a half-baked extrapolation of a simpler idea.
This is the idea evolution phase. If I think the idea really holds merit, maybe later I'll make a re-post with way more detail. For now I said what was on my mind and people are talking about it. You're doing nothing but waste my and other people's time by pining about the details I haven't included.
Correct. It makes the sun and moon take 3 Minecraft days to go all the way around the skybox. You have to sleep twice to pass a full night from the beginning.
Totally Random Question: What would you think if they added a kraken (using command blocks) to PirateCraft to add a challenge for traveling far distances by water?
I wouldn't be in favor of it. It would be cool to have some great dangerous ocean somewhere where you can use your ship cannons to fight off a giant sea monster, but I wouldn't want that danger in the regular overworld ocean.
Maybe The End should have enormous lake-islands several hundred blocks across, with some giant monster lurking deep within, along with islands hidden way off somewhere towards the center of the giant lake that have something special on them, and the best way to sail across is to make a big ship with cannons. Or maybe that should be saved for a unique game/server dedicated to it.
It could be cool to have something like that on a server like PirateCraft, but PirateCraft is more designed toward player interaction, and also their oceans aren't all that large.
And this is exactly why you are supposed to care about specifics. Because at this moment this can either be fairly unbalanced or really unbalanced.
That's why we're here to discuss it. I gave one specific and you talked about it. I didn't give any others because I don't have any to give.
I agree that having a lot of spawners in one area could make a really high capacity mob farm, though I'm not entirely sold on the idea that that is a bad thing.
Howabout a new structure which contains several hostile mob spawners but inside there are loot chests containing spawn eggs. The spawn eggs would be hard to get to in survival mode, but it would make spawn eggs available in survival.
Why: to increase the available options in survival. There are many things players could do with spawn eggs. Naturally, they should probably be available in very limited fashion and you should have to work to get them, but there's some very important things that could be done with spawn eggs. I wish spawn eggs were available in survival in some way, so I'm suggesting one way out of many possibilities.
Also on topic:
1.) anything discussing reasonable ways to make spawn eggs available in survival mode
2.) discussing why spawn eggs should not be available in survival mode
Not on topic:
1.) asking for free spawn eggs in survival
2.) baseless flaming
Before you ask it:
"What attributes would the hatchery have, specifically?"
I don't know and I don't care, it's not the point of the post, but you are free to suggest specific attributes below.
I should at least be able to swing a WOODEN sword that fast!
Why?
It doesn't completely disable your right click option. You can still place blocks with anything in your offhand.
Right click can't have two functions at once. If you have a shield in one hand and blocks in the other, right either places blocks or uses the shield. The point being: one of them doesn't work while the other one does. Thus the shield is annoying to use.
That's a lot of work, thus making it HARDER to combat!
Translation: it raises the skill ceiling.
You could still do it while they're running if you have fast reflexes.
Skill ceiling.
What I said has nothing to do with weak players beating strong ones. Quite the opposite. The strong player can beat the weak one much better.
As in the skilled player can beat the unskilled player. Isn't that what we want?
The axe's ability to be stopped less by armor is important toward making it usable in player combat because otherwise its slow swing time would lend to you being unable to kill a player while they stand there eating food and laughing at you.
And yet it still does a lot of damage, so you could get in about 7 damage without even waiting for the cooldown to fill up.
Without the new system including toughness as well as larger attacks penetrating armor, a perfect 18 damage axe crit would deal only 3.6 damage to a player in full diamond armor without protection.
Everything I have said was said because of experience.
And yet our experience suggests to the contrary.
What is your point? The facts are that in pre-1.9 PvP, a player in Diamond armor is very well defended yet can still be killed if they are being constantly attacked. In post 1.9 PvP, the same is true.
Nope. They could be killed in less hits because of the extra damage added to the items.
In less hits with more time between hits = same amount of time. Actually probably slightly more time, but that's probably a good thing. PvP used to be a little fast.
My whole purpose for talking about this bit is to get you to stop acting like the change affected how well players can kill each other, because it hasn't changed.
Yes it has.
You say it yet evidence suggests to the contrary. Spamming attacks in someone's face might not break through their armor, but using some tactics will do it even if they have diamond armor and a shield, and you have wooden or stone tools.
That is a pathetic effort to balance things considering that it was fine before 1.9.
You say it but you aren't backing it up with evidence. We've told you what was wrong with combat before 1.9. Let's summarize what's been said: It was more spammy and less tactical. You seem to agree but feel that the old way was better. We argue that the old way was less skill-oriented meaning that it was the player with the best gear who generally won the fight. You seem to agree that a skill-oriented system is better, but you disagree that the new system is more skill-oriented. It has more things to consider, giving it a higher skill ceiling.
It wouldn't be defenseless at all. In the post I said that it would do 8 hearts of damage, and I'm even considering making it higher.
I said it should be defenseless. Other games always make every creature able to attack, I like how Minecraft is different in that many things can't fight back. This isn't unrealistic, while most large animals can be dangerous, often they don't stand a chance against the humans who hunt them. And this includes whales. I like to think the whale would be mostly a thing of beauty that you're supposed to leave alone. I'm not opposed to it yielding something valuable, but I want the balance to be such that you can get by without the valuable thing and you take a stern look at yourself if you decide it's okay to kill the whale to get the thing. Blubber as a fuel source is a good idea, also perhaps lots of meat for food. You can get food and meat other ways, but a player who is willing to kill off their whale might be rewarded with a lot of food and fuel plus some guilt.
Another problem with it doing a lot of damage is if you accidentally aggro the whale, you can be in grave danger unless you can kill it quickly. If you can kill it quickly, then it just seems like a generic RPG like all the other stupid crap flooding the game shelves, constantly copying each other's bad ideas.
1. I wanted the skin to be blue, but forgot and didn't save when editing the skin. I said it would be blue in the post. EDIT: Made new Undead Sailor image.
2. It's not a miner's helmet. It's actually supposed to be a tri-corner hat, and is based off of this picture.
I see. The hat by itself doesn't look too much like a tricorne, I think the rest of the outfit sells it, primarily the red admiral coat and the black dexter against the white swashbuckler shirt. But looking at your new zombie graphic, I think the hat graphic isn't so important, the blue skin really sells it regardless of what it's wearing on its head. Some people will probably recognize the hat as a tricorne, others may think it's a miner's helmet, everybody will agree it's a blue zombie from the depths.
I didn't mean to "shoehorn" this in. I thought it was a cool idea and added a unique reward for winning a fight with a shark.
I say it's shoehorned because Minecraft seems to avoid unique weapons. Several public servers and shared worlds use enchanted equipment with names for flavor, so I feel like that's a thing that would fit in Minecraft. Crafting the teeth into the weapon doesn't seem like something that will go over well with the more critical folks in the Minecraft community--instead I would recommend finding some other way to deliver it to the player, such as:
a.) shark protects a loot chest
b.) villager trades shark teeth for the axe
c.) make the reward resources or value instead of equipment
I think having a separate villager class would be better than just having the fisherman buy blubber for two reasons:
1. Having more different villager coats makes them more distinguishable.
2. It makes more sense, and will make even more sense once part 3 is out (you'll be able to see how whalers get their blubber )
It would be nice if there was a better way to tell villagers apart within the same coat color. One issue is that villagers spawn evenly by coat color, thus making it so that colors with fewer classes make those classes more common. For example, clerics or librarians are much more common than farmers or toolsmiths, especially before cartographers were added. It would be neat to suggest a fix for this, because I think villagers need more farmers and less cartographers and clerics. Librarians are acceptable since there's so many possible variations. But I'm getting off-topic.
I considered cuttlefish, but I decided against it. The octopus isn't tameable. Since they eat molluscs in real life, the in-game molluscs attract them. This means you can place down molluscs around an underwater base to make octopus come near and therefore keep away crabs. This is in no way a pet.
I actually really like that idea for giving the player a way to impact the world in a naturalistic style. I wish more things like this were in Minecraft. It is difficult to properly balance a bunch of simple AIs to work in tandem with each other, but I want to see stuff like predator-prey relationships in which the prey automatically reproduce and you can use predators to control their numbers but the prey population never grows out of control in the absence of predators, and never dies out from predators unless you have a ridiculously high number of predators.
I wanted to put dolphins in this post, but I couldn't think of a use for them that was both balanced and convincing. Would they be faster than sailboats (from Part 1) when you ride them? If so, how does this not make sailboats useless?
I was just throwing dolphins out there as the only thing I could think of as being aquatic and tameable. They also just happen to be the only thing I can think of that's both aquatic and rideable. I'm not suggesting adding them, just tossing ideas out there.
I wanted to make a larger post on your sailboats and I might do that eventually, but for now I'd like you to take a look at PirateCraft, a public minecraft server. They have actual boats on there that you can build with blocks and sail them. I think a thing like that could really be in Minecraft. But contrary to your idea, these would be slow, with the benefit being both that you can store chests and stuff on them as well as the fact that they move forward on their own while you can take a break and go do something else or fiddle with your inventory. I think the little boats are as fast as we need to go, and people can set up nether portals to get across faster once they've made the trip for the first time and decided to build a fast travel route. They can also set up a trail of scout markers and use elytra and firework rockets to get across really fast. Elytra through the nether for ultimate speed.
But I also wouldn't make the oceans quite as large as I think I saw you suggesting, bigger than they are and more variable in size, but they don't need to feel like endless oceans. Just the same, I think the player should occasionally encounter a really gargantuan ocean in their game. It is up to that player to choose to venture far into that sea, and if they feel stuck they can always die to get back out. But I'm really happy that one of the recent versions made it possible once again to find an ocean large enough that you can't see to the other side at 10 chunk render distance. I went for my second stronghold recently and found it on an island about 30 chunks from the shore I left, with no other land within about 15 chunks of the island. That's what an ocean should be like. I think 160-1600 blocks is a good range of sizes for a typical ocean diameter. I wouldn't make the average size any larger than that.
Also, when has anything the Cleric sells or buys made sense? I don't know what kind of religion they're a part of, but it doesn't seem too conventional. He literally buys rotten flesh from you. The coral thing was meant to add to that weirdness, but you do have a point. Maybe the Collector could buy coral, totems, dragon heads, etc. This could be really cool. Maybe he could even send you on quests. You have a really cool idea forming here.
The Cleric's sales do seem kind of weird, in fact I see some room to fix it if anything. I think the rotten flesh works because the cleric might be using it in some ceremony as a reagent of corruption to banish evil. That's the kind of stuff witch doctors and other woo-peddlers are known to do, and oddly enough it's similar to real medicine in which poisons or viruses can be used to make their own cures.
But I don't see something being messed up as an excuse to make it worse. I agree the cleric is messed up; therefore I think the cleric should be fixed or made better. Also as long as purple coats are just as common as other colors, we need some that are actually useful. Clerics demand such high amounts of rotten flesh that even when I farm a zombie spawner with a looting sword I still get emeralds several times as fast from my medium-sized sugarcane farm that never grows fast enough to satisfy the needs off all those paper-hogging whitecoats. Occasionally I might want to buy an ender pearl from a cleric but otherwise they're useless. I think of purple and green coats as both being the same thing.
P.S.
I will update the post so that you can obtain and place Anemones. You really seem to want that.
I'm glad you can tell what I want! =]
What I want most for an ocean update, ranked from most to least:
1.) ocean biomes with corals
2.) more structures
3.) anemones, urchins, starfish, and other decoratives + aquarium to put them in my base
I'm trying to make a post showing all of your responses condenses together but the editor won't cooperate. It's more than broken, it's only got about 40% of its bugs fixed since release, there's about another 55% to go before it even gets to a usable state.
Anyways, you're going back on your own words.
There is no way I would swing a sword and just lugg it around for almost a second afterwards. I would swing it as much as I am able to.
The delay is the time it takes to bring the sword back into a swinging position. Forgive the developers for not animating it very well. But try swinging a real sword faster than once per second and get back to me on how well that works. Or watch a Lindybeige video on swords because he explains myths like that.
Which was a specific slot that was added SEPECIFICALLY for the shield and really nothing else.
And yet people use it for ladders, torches, and many other things. But my point about it being a drawback was that you're sharing right-click with the other hand. You can put your shield in your main hand to let it block when your other hand has a right-click option, but it completely disables the right-click option in the off-hand. They probably took blocking off of swords because otherwise you wouldn't be able to block with a shield when you have a sword in the main hand.
What if you've never seen your opponent? what do you do there?
Try to see them first. Part of tactics is being the first one to see your opponent. Come on, don't make me explain everything.
If you didn't use a shield, I would mdefinately hit you with an axe becuase it does more damage. And if the axe can get through shields, I would use the axe all the time making the sword essentially useless.
Try it before you make such claims. Or just check 1.9+ PvP videos and see how often they use axes against each other. Damage isn't everything, especially against strong armor. The axe's ability to be stopped less by armor is important toward making it usable in player combat because otherwise its slow swing time would lend to you being unable to kill a player while they stand there eating food and laughing at you.
without toughness the two would be barely distinguishable on a 10+ damage hit.
And that is pretty bad, becuase diamond should be a lot better because diamonds are a lot rarer.
That's my point. Armor toughness is basically a quick-fix to make sure diamond armor is much better than iron regardless of the weapon used against it. It goes to show Möjang was thinking, because they added armor toughness before 1.9 full release.
they shouldn't be able to kill each other easily. It's DIAMOND ARMOR! You should get the most protection possible out of it!
What is your point? The facts are that in pre-1.9 PvP, a player in Diamond armor is very well defended yet can still be killed if they are being constantly attacked. In post 1.9 PvP, the same is true. That diamond armor protects you very well hasn't changed. That you can be beaten with diamond armor hasn't changed. My whole purpose for talking about this bit is to get you to stop acting like the change affected how well players can kill each other, because it hasn't changed.
You could kill an unarmored player in 2 hits with an iron axe.
So? You can kill them in a couple seconds if they stand still? I can do that with an iron sword, too! In fact the sword does more DPS than the axe. Also last I checked, most PvPers don't stand around waiting to be killed.
Also, since shields cost 1 iron, players who don't have enough iron to make armor can still stand a chance of defending themselves from players who have been in a game longer.
They can't offend, though, and the better guy is just going to wait until the shield either breaks, or the player gives up.
We just went over how well players can kill each other with iron weapons! It wasn't long ago someone made the point that a player with skill and a wooden axe can beat a skilled player with a shield and diamond armor, and IIRC you didn't object to that.
This is simple: until you actually do some PvP or otherwise test this stuff, you shouldn't be making statements about the way things are when you don't know, because people will call you out when you're wrong.
This is essentially grass and tall-grass but underwater. Mining it would give you seaweed, which can be planted or eaten to restore 2 hunger points. It would be quite common.
I am thinking that seaweed would function as a portable water source block you can stack, perhaps if you mine it with silk touch. And I don't see a problem with that. Place down two and break them, and you have an infinite water source. It takes only one inventory slot as opposed to two buckets, but has the drawback of you not having a bucket.
Coral
Coral is interesting. It would come in different colors and patterns.
Cleric Villagers would buy coral from you for 6 to 9 emeralds a piece,
Stepping on coral would do 1 heart of damage
Coral will be essential to an awesome ocean environment. The most important part is simply having coral blocks that spawn into impressive coral structures. Anything beyond that is fun to speculate on but I want to make it clear that if any of it seems difficult, it can be readily abandoned; just the existence of coral is mainly what matters.
I'd love to see more uses for Clerics, but coral isn't religious. Howabout an alternate magenta-coat called a collector? They could have a particularly large number of trades in which they give emeralds for things you provide, and would accept a wide variety of rarer objects such as special corals, pearls, diamonds, saddles, horse armor, music discs, mob heads, nether stars, and the dragon egg. Maybe it gives you 64 emeralds for the dragon egg, but only accepts it once (no hacking in more eggs!)
I like having one or more kinds of coral that deal damage, but I think most should be harmless, and the few that hurt should look like they're painful to step on. They could act as underwater garbage units though.
Mollusc
These would basically be a shell, but occasionally opening slightly. They technically be entities, but I am putting them under blocks because you would be able to grab them (right click) and then place them down again. They would rarely move a little, but other than that, they would be pretty stationary mobs.
I'd love to see several decorative creatures like this, such as sea urchins and starfish. The player should be able to make an aquarium (I have some ideas for this if you don't) and should be able to collect things like this and place them in the aquarium.
Also
Sand would now primarily spawn at the ocean floor instead of gravel.
Makes sense. I'd like to see the occasional area with all gravel like in real life, but most of the ocean floor is sand AFAIK.
Mobs
Larger Squid
Fish
Anemones
Crabs
Octopus
Shark
I wouldn't mind having bigger squid but it seems like a waste of development resources. Fish would be cool, but I want to see lots of fish in the coral reefs, so if they were instead non-interactive but responded to your presence by swimming out of the way, it would make them a simple bit of ambiance that makes the reef look thriving. I like to think of anemones as a passive decoration you pick up and put in your aquarium. Many anemones are harmless to humans anyway. I told you how I feel about crabs. Cuttlefish are the ones that blend in the best, though octopus are popular. Still I think if it does a superb job of camouflaging itself, it should be a cuttlefish. And none of them are tameable in real life so I wouldn't have them defend the player. I might make dolphins into a tameable and rideable mob.
Sharks would be totally awesome but I don't want to be in constant danger of sharks everywhere I go in the ocean, so they should be relegated to a few areas and I should be able to go somewhere in which I can know there aren't any sharks around.
Leiomano
This was a real Hawaiian weapon. I think this makes an interesting weapon that is a reward for killing a shark.
It's shoehorned in. I can think of a ton of Minecraft forum-goers who would talk this one down. Here's a variation: loot chests can contain an enchanted axe with specific attributes which is pre-named 'Leiomano'. It's okay if shark teeth only purpose is to show how many sharks you killed, but I'm all for them having some other use as long as it's reasonable. Maybe the collector wants them.
Whale
The whale would be based on the Sperm Whale, and would hunt the larger variation of squid.
There would be a new "Whaler" Villager, which would wear a blue coat.
Fascinating idea to have whales. I'd give it more HP, make it really big and give it a few hundred HP. It could be a gargantuan passive mob that is a challenge to take down and makes you feel bad once you look at yourself and realize what you've done to the poor defenseless creature.
I don't think you've given enough reason to add a new villager coat. Instead, you could apply whaling characteristics to the Fisherman. One thing the Fisherman needs is a better way to level them up. I need something I can sell to them that I can farm in large amounts. Maybe the whale drops a large amount of blubber, enough to level up a Fisherman a few times. That seems like a terrible idea but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head.
Undead Sailor
Fun. Might be cool to see them walk out of the water. Perhaps there could be a shipwreck structure that would contain an undead sailor spawner, or a zombie spawner but all zombies that spawn underwater are undead sailors, and undead sailors walk on the sea floor with depth strider rather than swim. Perhaps that also means you find undead sailors at night when you're near the ocean.
P.S. I'd make them bluer, and lose the miner's helmet.
Palm Trees
And coconuts, and pineapples? I want to see palm trees added, and I want more fruit in the game as well. It would be awesome to have an 'Island Oasis' biome which can spawn either in the middle of the ocean or the middle of the desert in small units which contain grass, palm trees, coconuts (blocks hanging from the trees or some fallen to the ground), and crabs if they're surrounded by ocean. They would also tend to have exactly one lake at the center.
I might save pineapples for the jungle but I'm not sure. I'd put lots of fruit into both island/oasis and jungle.
Items
This will be a list of items that this suggestion would add.
Sea Soup
Crafted with a bowl, 2 Seaweed, and Cooked Crab, Sea Soup would be another Soup/Stew. This would restore 14 hunger points, or 7 full hunger shanks. It would also provide 14.5 saturation points.
Seaweed
Used to plant seaweed or as food. Restores 2 hunger points (1 full hunger shank) and as much saturation as cookies.
Mollusc (Item)
Obtained by right-clicking a Mollusc, the Mollusc item would allow you to place down a Mollusc by right clicking the ground.
Raw/Cooked Crab
Dropped from the Crab Mob. As good as beef and steak, but restores a little more saturation.
Octopus Tentacle
Dropped by the Octopus. Now used to make the Invisibility Potion.
Shark Tooth
Dropped by the Shark. Can be used to craft a cool weapon based on a real Hawaiian weapon.
Blubber
Dropped from Whales. Can be traded with the Whaler Villager for a decent amount of emeralds.
Whale Oil
Obtainable from trading with the Whaler Villager. Can be used as fuel, and is better than coal.
Sailor's Hat
Sometimes dropped by the Undead Sailor. Can be worn as a helmet. It would be as good as a leather helmet.
Coconut / Coconut Milk
Dropped by Palm Tree Leaves along with Palm Tree Saplings. They can be thrown or crafted into Coconut Milk, which restores 4 hunger points and clears potion effects like normal milk.
Leiomano
Made from a wooden axe and shark teeth, this weapon does more damage than a diamond sword with an attack speed in between that of an axe and sword.
I definitely think we should have lots of seafood options. I want some variety in food categories so I can more reasonably choose what kind of food I like. At current, what little fruit exists is terrible as a food option, there's very little variety in fruit, breads, or seafood, and most of the good food is meat. I had the same problem in WoW, lots of food types but everything good to eat is meat. I'm a fruit and seafood guy and I want to be able to appreciate my food.
So I think octopus should be edible along with crab, and maybe a few more fishable options other than fish, such as shrimp.
Waves
Have you seen those shaders
These days it's getting easier and easier to make convincing waves. I think it could be added as a thing you can disable in graphics options. However I bet the game engine has a lot more to do with it than anything else, so it's very possible that while it's feasible in other games, it's not feasible in Minecraft.
I've noticed that you want a lot of the mobs to be passive. Are you not really a big survival player or something?
I play survival all the time and I like the dynamic in which the majority of stuff you find in the world is passive or neutral. You sort of choose your danger a lot. Night can get a bit overwhelming, but there's a bunch of easy tricks to protect yourself from it, so you still choose when you want to go out at night. Even in the Nether or The End I feel pretty safe (at least after knocking the dragon off) as long as I elect to explore it carefully. But The End and the Nether are supposed to be a bit hostile, especially the Nether. So since the ocean is part of the overworld, I think by and large the primary struggle to exploring it should be breath and light. I'd love to see a few hostile structures (like the ocean monument) to explore, but I think there should be lots to explore that doesn't involve hostile mobs.
One cool idea could be sunken treasure in which it's protected by a guardian sea creature which is a boss but only attacks you if you try to get the treasure. I had the idea of a King Crab which lurks inside a shipwreck and if you try to enter the shipwreck it'll try to push you out but won't hurt you (unless it accidentally traps you and you can't get air). But if you get too close to the treasure chest, it'll go hostile. Any crabs in the area will come to its rescue, and it'll send out a crab aggro call every time you hit it.
Crabs hostile in the darkness seems cool and fits with the way spiders already work. I'd like to improve ocean visibility by making sunlight penetrate much deeper, and make light sources shine further than they do. It would be neat to have entire thriving coral reef regions that are shallow enough to be well lit, yet still deep enough to make it difficult to explore them. Then the deeper parts of the ocean could be much darker, with ravines appearing on the deepest ocean floors as ocean trenches (filled with water, not air like most ravines) and they could have magma instead of lava at the bottom. That way it's super dark but you see a faint glow from deep inside, inviting you to come in. And the ravine could have hostile sea creatures. That could be really fun,
Just basically I think generic ocean biome areas should have player-friendly mobs just like land. Or it could have hostile mobs at night that despawn automatically in the day, and maybe deep enough the night creatures spawn all day long but don't chase the player from very far away, which prevents them from coming at you when you're in brighter water.
I don't understand the part about the significant digging. All it takes is visiting one wiki page.
Then you have to read said wiki page, discover that it does not give the answer and in fact gives an answer that's wrong (it says /give, but does not provide the rest of the command), then you have to find the command list page and search the page for monster spawner. The wiki page is probably useful for pointing you in the right direction there. Oh and then you find out the commands page doesn't have a command containing the word "spawner". So it's back to the drawing board. In the end, you have to hope you can stumble across some user on forums or in a video giving out the command because otherwise you aren't likely to find it.
I'll be honest, I don't like much about your specifics. But I'd rather have that stuff than a boring ocean. So I'm just going to offer my support and leave it at that.
Your general ideas are cool, just the specifics don't feel like they fit Minecraft. I'm also over-generalizing because I didn't feel like reading the whole thing. I like the crab though. I had a similar idea once. I'd just keep it a passive or neutral mob. And the coral idea seems pretty much about right.
I would love to see lightning rods added to the game both as a way to get lightning to strike mobs and as a way to generate redstone current. I can't imagine how the redstone current could be used, but I'm sure someone will find a way to make it useful.
Actually, I thought of a use: make a set of noteblocks that plays Toccata every time lightning strikes the rod that starts it. Then put that in the back of your ominous castle!
I don't think spawners should be available in survival, but I definitely would suggest adding them to the creative inventory. It's difficult trying to add spawners in at current, as not only do you have to get the code to give yourself a spawner item and then use a spawn egg to set its type, you must also do a significant amount of digging on the internet just to find out how to do that. It should just be in the creative inventory, would make things a lot easier.
0
I never said it was. I merely said it's not necessarily my job either.
Why can't you either support or not support the idea as presented? Offering your support for the OP doesn't automatically offer support for every iteration anyone else comes up with later. And even if it did, this is really just a discussion arena, not some high-class Office of Upgrades for Minecraft. Möjang doesn't even read most of this stuff. The point of posting here-what actually gets done in any case-is to affect and enrich the ideas of the playerbase overall so that it influences the players that Möjang does have contact with, often indirectly. You critics put way too much emphasis on following some exact code of offering suggestions, and you shoot down too many good suggestion opportunities because of it.
I didn't offer more ideas because I didn't have any. If other people have more ideas, this thread is open to them. Already we've seen some. When I suggest an idea I've already put a lot of thought into, I offer more specifics, and when I do, it means I'm pretty rigid on the details and you're not likely to convince me otherwise because I've already put so much thought into it. I choose not to put in details where I don't have details worth putting in. I could sketch up a rough draft of a hatchery, but it would be a waste of my time designing it and your time reading about it because it wouldn't be something I spent a lot of time on, rather it would be a half-baked extrapolation of a simpler idea.
This is the idea evolution phase. If I think the idea really holds merit, maybe later I'll make a re-post with way more detail. For now I said what was on my mind and people are talking about it. You're doing nothing but waste my and other people's time by pining about the details I haven't included.
0
Correct. It makes the sun and moon take 3 Minecraft days to go all the way around the skybox. You have to sleep twice to pass a full night from the beginning.
0
I wouldn't be in favor of it. It would be cool to have some great dangerous ocean somewhere where you can use your ship cannons to fight off a giant sea monster, but I wouldn't want that danger in the regular overworld ocean.
Maybe The End should have enormous lake-islands several hundred blocks across, with some giant monster lurking deep within, along with islands hidden way off somewhere towards the center of the giant lake that have something special on them, and the best way to sail across is to make a big ship with cannons. Or maybe that should be saved for a unique game/server dedicated to it.
It could be cool to have something like that on a server like PirateCraft, but PirateCraft is more designed toward player interaction, and also their oceans aren't all that large.
0
That's why we're here to discuss it. I gave one specific and you talked about it. I didn't give any others because I don't have any to give.
I agree that having a lot of spawners in one area could make a really high capacity mob farm, though I'm not entirely sold on the idea that that is a bad thing.
0
Howabout a new structure which contains several hostile mob spawners but inside there are loot chests containing spawn eggs. The spawn eggs would be hard to get to in survival mode, but it would make spawn eggs available in survival.
Why: to increase the available options in survival. There are many things players could do with spawn eggs. Naturally, they should probably be available in very limited fashion and you should have to work to get them, but there's some very important things that could be done with spawn eggs. I wish spawn eggs were available in survival in some way, so I'm suggesting one way out of many possibilities.
Also on topic:
1.) anything discussing reasonable ways to make spawn eggs available in survival mode
2.) discussing why spawn eggs should not be available in survival mode
Not on topic:
1.) asking for free spawn eggs in survival
2.) baseless flaming
Before you ask it:
"What attributes would the hatchery have, specifically?"
I don't know and I don't care, it's not the point of the post, but you are free to suggest specific attributes below.
2
I should at least be able to swing a WOODEN sword that fast!
Why?
It doesn't completely disable your right click option. You can still place blocks with anything in your offhand.
Right click can't have two functions at once. If you have a shield in one hand and blocks in the other, right either places blocks or uses the shield. The point being: one of them doesn't work while the other one does. Thus the shield is annoying to use.
That's a lot of work, thus making it HARDER to combat!
Translation: it raises the skill ceiling.
You could still do it while they're running if you have fast reflexes.
Skill ceiling.
What I said has nothing to do with weak players beating strong ones. Quite the opposite. The strong player can beat the weak one much better.
As in the skilled player can beat the unskilled player. Isn't that what we want?
The axe's ability to be stopped less by armor is important toward making it usable in player combat because otherwise its slow swing time would lend to you being unable to kill a player while they stand there eating food and laughing at you.
And yet it still does a lot of damage, so you could get in about 7 damage without even waiting for the cooldown to fill up.
Without the new system including toughness as well as larger attacks penetrating armor, a perfect 18 damage axe crit would deal only 3.6 damage to a player in full diamond armor without protection.
Everything I have said was said because of experience.
And yet our experience suggests to the contrary.
What is your point? The facts are that in pre-1.9 PvP, a player in Diamond armor is very well defended yet can still be killed if they are being constantly attacked. In post 1.9 PvP, the same is true.
Nope. They could be killed in less hits because of the extra damage added to the items.
In less hits with more time between hits = same amount of time. Actually probably slightly more time, but that's probably a good thing. PvP used to be a little fast.
My whole purpose for talking about this bit is to get you to stop acting like the change affected how well players can kill each other, because it hasn't changed.
Yes it has.
You say it yet evidence suggests to the contrary. Spamming attacks in someone's face might not break through their armor, but using some tactics will do it even if they have diamond armor and a shield, and you have wooden or stone tools.
That is a pathetic effort to balance things considering that it was fine before 1.9.
You say it but you aren't backing it up with evidence. We've told you what was wrong with combat before 1.9. Let's summarize what's been said: It was more spammy and less tactical. You seem to agree but feel that the old way was better. We argue that the old way was less skill-oriented meaning that it was the player with the best gear who generally won the fight. You seem to agree that a skill-oriented system is better, but you disagree that the new system is more skill-oriented. It has more things to consider, giving it a higher skill ceiling.
1
I said it should be defenseless. Other games always make every creature able to attack, I like how Minecraft is different in that many things can't fight back. This isn't unrealistic, while most large animals can be dangerous, often they don't stand a chance against the humans who hunt them. And this includes whales. I like to think the whale would be mostly a thing of beauty that you're supposed to leave alone. I'm not opposed to it yielding something valuable, but I want the balance to be such that you can get by without the valuable thing and you take a stern look at yourself if you decide it's okay to kill the whale to get the thing. Blubber as a fuel source is a good idea, also perhaps lots of meat for food. You can get food and meat other ways, but a player who is willing to kill off their whale might be rewarded with a lot of food and fuel plus some guilt.
Another problem with it doing a lot of damage is if you accidentally aggro the whale, you can be in grave danger unless you can kill it quickly. If you can kill it quickly, then it just seems like a generic RPG like all the other stupid crap flooding the game shelves, constantly copying each other's bad ideas.
I see. The hat by itself doesn't look too much like a tricorne, I think the rest of the outfit sells it, primarily the red admiral coat and the black dexter against the white swashbuckler shirt. But looking at your new zombie graphic, I think the hat graphic isn't so important, the blue skin really sells it regardless of what it's wearing on its head. Some people will probably recognize the hat as a tricorne, others may think it's a miner's helmet, everybody will agree it's a blue zombie from the depths.
I say it's shoehorned because Minecraft seems to avoid unique weapons. Several public servers and shared worlds use enchanted equipment with names for flavor, so I feel like that's a thing that would fit in Minecraft. Crafting the teeth into the weapon doesn't seem like something that will go over well with the more critical folks in the Minecraft community--instead I would recommend finding some other way to deliver it to the player, such as:
a.) shark protects a loot chest
b.) villager trades shark teeth for the axe
c.) make the reward resources or value instead of equipment
It would be nice if there was a better way to tell villagers apart within the same coat color. One issue is that villagers spawn evenly by coat color, thus making it so that colors with fewer classes make those classes more common. For example, clerics or librarians are much more common than farmers or toolsmiths, especially before cartographers were added. It would be neat to suggest a fix for this, because I think villagers need more farmers and less cartographers and clerics. Librarians are acceptable since there's so many possible variations. But I'm getting off-topic.
I actually really like that idea for giving the player a way to impact the world in a naturalistic style. I wish more things like this were in Minecraft. It is difficult to properly balance a bunch of simple AIs to work in tandem with each other, but I want to see stuff like predator-prey relationships in which the prey automatically reproduce and you can use predators to control their numbers but the prey population never grows out of control in the absence of predators, and never dies out from predators unless you have a ridiculously high number of predators.
I was just throwing dolphins out there as the only thing I could think of as being aquatic and tameable. They also just happen to be the only thing I can think of that's both aquatic and rideable. I'm not suggesting adding them, just tossing ideas out there.
I wanted to make a larger post on your sailboats and I might do that eventually, but for now I'd like you to take a look at PirateCraft, a public minecraft server. They have actual boats on there that you can build with blocks and sail them. I think a thing like that could really be in Minecraft. But contrary to your idea, these would be slow, with the benefit being both that you can store chests and stuff on them as well as the fact that they move forward on their own while you can take a break and go do something else or fiddle with your inventory. I think the little boats are as fast as we need to go, and people can set up nether portals to get across faster once they've made the trip for the first time and decided to build a fast travel route. They can also set up a trail of scout markers and use elytra and firework rockets to get across really fast. Elytra through the nether for ultimate speed.
But I also wouldn't make the oceans quite as large as I think I saw you suggesting, bigger than they are and more variable in size, but they don't need to feel like endless oceans. Just the same, I think the player should occasionally encounter a really gargantuan ocean in their game. It is up to that player to choose to venture far into that sea, and if they feel stuck they can always die to get back out. But I'm really happy that one of the recent versions made it possible once again to find an ocean large enough that you can't see to the other side at 10 chunk render distance. I went for my second stronghold recently and found it on an island about 30 chunks from the shore I left, with no other land within about 15 chunks of the island. That's what an ocean should be like. I think 160-1600 blocks is a good range of sizes for a typical ocean diameter. I wouldn't make the average size any larger than that.
The Cleric's sales do seem kind of weird, in fact I see some room to fix it if anything. I think the rotten flesh works because the cleric might be using it in some ceremony as a reagent of corruption to banish evil. That's the kind of stuff witch doctors and other woo-peddlers are known to do, and oddly enough it's similar to real medicine in which poisons or viruses can be used to make their own cures.
But I don't see something being messed up as an excuse to make it worse. I agree the cleric is messed up; therefore I think the cleric should be fixed or made better. Also as long as purple coats are just as common as other colors, we need some that are actually useful. Clerics demand such high amounts of rotten flesh that even when I farm a zombie spawner with a looting sword I still get emeralds several times as fast from my medium-sized sugarcane farm that never grows fast enough to satisfy the needs off all those paper-hogging whitecoats. Occasionally I might want to buy an ender pearl from a cleric but otherwise they're useless. I think of purple and green coats as both being the same thing.
I'm glad you can tell what I want! =]
What I want most for an ocean update, ranked from most to least:
1.) ocean biomes with corals
2.) more structures
3.) anemones, urchins, starfish, and other decoratives + aquarium to put them in my base
0
I'm trying to make a post showing all of your responses condenses together but the editor won't cooperate. It's more than broken, it's only got about 40% of its bugs fixed since release, there's about another 55% to go before it even gets to a usable state.
Anyways, you're going back on your own words.
There is no way I would swing a sword and just lugg it around for almost a second afterwards. I would swing it as much as I am able to.
The delay is the time it takes to bring the sword back into a swinging position. Forgive the developers for not animating it very well. But try swinging a real sword faster than once per second and get back to me on how well that works. Or watch a Lindybeige video on swords because he explains myths like that.
Which was a specific slot that was added SEPECIFICALLY for the shield and really nothing else.
And yet people use it for ladders, torches, and many other things. But my point about it being a drawback was that you're sharing right-click with the other hand. You can put your shield in your main hand to let it block when your other hand has a right-click option, but it completely disables the right-click option in the off-hand. They probably took blocking off of swords because otherwise you wouldn't be able to block with a shield when you have a sword in the main hand.
What if you've never seen your opponent? what do you do there?
Try to see them first. Part of tactics is being the first one to see your opponent. Come on, don't make me explain everything.
If you didn't use a shield, I would mdefinately hit you with an axe becuase it does more damage. And if the axe can get through shields, I would use the axe all the time making the sword essentially useless.
Try it before you make such claims. Or just check 1.9+ PvP videos and see how often they use axes against each other. Damage isn't everything, especially against strong armor. The axe's ability to be stopped less by armor is important toward making it usable in player combat because otherwise its slow swing time would lend to you being unable to kill a player while they stand there eating food and laughing at you.
without toughness the two would be barely distinguishable on a 10+ damage hit.
And that is pretty bad, becuase diamond should be a lot better because diamonds are a lot rarer.
That's my point. Armor toughness is basically a quick-fix to make sure diamond armor is much better than iron regardless of the weapon used against it. It goes to show Möjang was thinking, because they added armor toughness before 1.9 full release.
they shouldn't be able to kill each other easily. It's DIAMOND ARMOR! You should get the most protection possible out of it!
What is your point? The facts are that in pre-1.9 PvP, a player in Diamond armor is very well defended yet can still be killed if they are being constantly attacked. In post 1.9 PvP, the same is true. That diamond armor protects you very well hasn't changed. That you can be beaten with diamond armor hasn't changed. My whole purpose for talking about this bit is to get you to stop acting like the change affected how well players can kill each other, because it hasn't changed.
You could kill an unarmored player in 2 hits with an iron axe.
So? You can kill them in a couple seconds if they stand still? I can do that with an iron sword, too! In fact the sword does more DPS than the axe. Also last I checked, most PvPers don't stand around waiting to be killed.
Also, since shields cost 1 iron, players who don't have enough iron to make armor can still stand a chance of defending themselves from players who have been in a game longer.
They can't offend, though, and the better guy is just going to wait until the shield either breaks, or the player gives up.
We just went over how well players can kill each other with iron weapons! It wasn't long ago someone made the point that a player with skill and a wooden axe can beat a skilled player with a shield and diamond armor, and IIRC you didn't object to that.
This is simple: until you actually do some PvP or otherwise test this stuff, you shouldn't be making statements about the way things are when you don't know, because people will call you out when you're wrong.
0
I am thinking that seaweed would function as a portable water source block you can stack, perhaps if you mine it with silk touch. And I don't see a problem with that. Place down two and break them, and you have an infinite water source. It takes only one inventory slot as opposed to two buckets, but has the drawback of you not having a bucket.
Coral will be essential to an awesome ocean environment. The most important part is simply having coral blocks that spawn into impressive coral structures. Anything beyond that is fun to speculate on but I want to make it clear that if any of it seems difficult, it can be readily abandoned; just the existence of coral is mainly what matters.
I'd love to see more uses for Clerics, but coral isn't religious. Howabout an alternate magenta-coat called a collector? They could have a particularly large number of trades in which they give emeralds for things you provide, and would accept a wide variety of rarer objects such as special corals, pearls, diamonds, saddles, horse armor, music discs, mob heads, nether stars, and the dragon egg. Maybe it gives you 64 emeralds for the dragon egg, but only accepts it once (no hacking in more eggs!)
I like having one or more kinds of coral that deal damage, but I think most should be harmless, and the few that hurt should look like they're painful to step on. They could act as underwater garbage units though.
I'd love to see several decorative creatures like this, such as sea urchins and starfish. The player should be able to make an aquarium (I have some ideas for this if you don't) and should be able to collect things like this and place them in the aquarium.
Makes sense. I'd like to see the occasional area with all gravel like in real life, but most of the ocean floor is sand AFAIK.
I wouldn't mind having bigger squid but it seems like a waste of development resources. Fish would be cool, but I want to see lots of fish in the coral reefs, so if they were instead non-interactive but responded to your presence by swimming out of the way, it would make them a simple bit of ambiance that makes the reef look thriving. I like to think of anemones as a passive decoration you pick up and put in your aquarium. Many anemones are harmless to humans anyway. I told you how I feel about crabs. Cuttlefish are the ones that blend in the best, though octopus are popular. Still I think if it does a superb job of camouflaging itself, it should be a cuttlefish. And none of them are tameable in real life so I wouldn't have them defend the player. I might make dolphins into a tameable and rideable mob.
Sharks would be totally awesome but I don't want to be in constant danger of sharks everywhere I go in the ocean, so they should be relegated to a few areas and I should be able to go somewhere in which I can know there aren't any sharks around.
It's shoehorned in. I can think of a ton of Minecraft forum-goers who would talk this one down. Here's a variation: loot chests can contain an enchanted axe with specific attributes which is pre-named 'Leiomano'. It's okay if shark teeth only purpose is to show how many sharks you killed, but I'm all for them having some other use as long as it's reasonable. Maybe the collector wants them.
Fascinating idea to have whales. I'd give it more HP, make it really big and give it a few hundred HP. It could be a gargantuan passive mob that is a challenge to take down and makes you feel bad once you look at yourself and realize what you've done to the poor defenseless creature.
I don't think you've given enough reason to add a new villager coat. Instead, you could apply whaling characteristics to the Fisherman. One thing the Fisherman needs is a better way to level them up. I need something I can sell to them that I can farm in large amounts. Maybe the whale drops a large amount of blubber, enough to level up a Fisherman a few times. That seems like a terrible idea but I can't think of anything else off the top of my head.
Fun. Might be cool to see them walk out of the water. Perhaps there could be a shipwreck structure that would contain an undead sailor spawner, or a zombie spawner but all zombies that spawn underwater are undead sailors, and undead sailors walk on the sea floor with depth strider rather than swim. Perhaps that also means you find undead sailors at night when you're near the ocean.
P.S. I'd make them bluer, and lose the miner's helmet.
And coconuts, and pineapples? I want to see palm trees added, and I want more fruit in the game as well. It would be awesome to have an 'Island Oasis' biome which can spawn either in the middle of the ocean or the middle of the desert in small units which contain grass, palm trees, coconuts (blocks hanging from the trees or some fallen to the ground), and crabs if they're surrounded by ocean. They would also tend to have exactly one lake at the center.
I might save pineapples for the jungle but I'm not sure. I'd put lots of fruit into both island/oasis and jungle.
I definitely think we should have lots of seafood options. I want some variety in food categories so I can more reasonably choose what kind of food I like. At current, what little fruit exists is terrible as a food option, there's very little variety in fruit, breads, or seafood, and most of the good food is meat. I had the same problem in WoW, lots of food types but everything good to eat is meat. I'm a fruit and seafood guy and I want to be able to appreciate my food.
So I think octopus should be edible along with crab, and maybe a few more fishable options other than fish, such as shrimp.
These days it's getting easier and easier to make convincing waves. I think it could be added as a thing you can disable in graphics options. However I bet the game engine has a lot more to do with it than anything else, so it's very possible that while it's feasible in other games, it's not feasible in Minecraft.
0
I play survival all the time and I like the dynamic in which the majority of stuff you find in the world is passive or neutral. You sort of choose your danger a lot. Night can get a bit overwhelming, but there's a bunch of easy tricks to protect yourself from it, so you still choose when you want to go out at night. Even in the Nether or The End I feel pretty safe (at least after knocking the dragon off) as long as I elect to explore it carefully. But The End and the Nether are supposed to be a bit hostile, especially the Nether. So since the ocean is part of the overworld, I think by and large the primary struggle to exploring it should be breath and light. I'd love to see a few hostile structures (like the ocean monument) to explore, but I think there should be lots to explore that doesn't involve hostile mobs.
One cool idea could be sunken treasure in which it's protected by a guardian sea creature which is a boss but only attacks you if you try to get the treasure. I had the idea of a King Crab which lurks inside a shipwreck and if you try to enter the shipwreck it'll try to push you out but won't hurt you (unless it accidentally traps you and you can't get air). But if you get too close to the treasure chest, it'll go hostile. Any crabs in the area will come to its rescue, and it'll send out a crab aggro call every time you hit it.
Crabs hostile in the darkness seems cool and fits with the way spiders already work. I'd like to improve ocean visibility by making sunlight penetrate much deeper, and make light sources shine further than they do. It would be neat to have entire thriving coral reef regions that are shallow enough to be well lit, yet still deep enough to make it difficult to explore them. Then the deeper parts of the ocean could be much darker, with ravines appearing on the deepest ocean floors as ocean trenches (filled with water, not air like most ravines) and they could have magma instead of lava at the bottom. That way it's super dark but you see a faint glow from deep inside, inviting you to come in. And the ravine could have hostile sea creatures. That could be really fun,
Just basically I think generic ocean biome areas should have player-friendly mobs just like land. Or it could have hostile mobs at night that despawn automatically in the day, and maybe deep enough the night creatures spawn all day long but don't chase the player from very far away, which prevents them from coming at you when you're in brighter water.
0
Then you have to read said wiki page, discover that it does not give the answer and in fact gives an answer that's wrong (it says /give, but does not provide the rest of the command), then you have to find the command list page and search the page for monster spawner. The wiki page is probably useful for pointing you in the right direction there. Oh and then you find out the commands page doesn't have a command containing the word "spawner". So it's back to the drawing board. In the end, you have to hope you can stumble across some user on forums or in a video giving out the command because otherwise you aren't likely to find it.
So no, it takes more than visiting one wiki page.
edit: the command is: /give <player> mob_spawner
For example: /give reaverofdarknes1 mob_spawner
0
I'll be honest, I don't like much about your specifics. But I'd rather have that stuff than a boring ocean. So I'm just going to offer my support and leave it at that.
Your general ideas are cool, just the specifics don't feel like they fit Minecraft. I'm also over-generalizing because I didn't feel like reading the whole thing. I like the crab though. I had a similar idea once. I'd just keep it a passive or neutral mob. And the coral idea seems pretty much about right.
0
It's not broken, it has been carefully developed into a WYSINWYG setup.
1
I would love to see lightning rods added to the game both as a way to get lightning to strike mobs and as a way to generate redstone current. I can't imagine how the redstone current could be used, but I'm sure someone will find a way to make it useful.
Actually, I thought of a use: make a set of noteblocks that plays Toccata every time lightning strikes the rod that starts it. Then put that in the back of your ominous castle!
2
I don't think spawners should be available in survival, but I definitely would suggest adding them to the creative inventory. It's difficult trying to add spawners in at current, as not only do you have to get the code to give yourself a spawner item and then use a spawn egg to set its type, you must also do a significant amount of digging on the internet just to find out how to do that. It should just be in the creative inventory, would make things a lot easier.