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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from xilefian

    I can code a game, I can also code a clean-room server that happens to talk Minecraft's protocol but isn't covered by Mojang's EULA.

    (Clarification; EULA isn't something you sign, it's something that is active as long as you're an end user within the license agreement, the moment you're not an end user then you aren't covered by it, so essentially if you're playing Minecraft/running a server you're covered by the EULA, when you turn it off and sleep at night you are not, which is what makes it difference to a contractual agreement)


    Go read the EULA. The EULA covers both activities with and through the game. That means that network connections using the Minecraft client are also covered by the EULA. That means that while perhaps that custom server code you wrote might not be affected by the EULA, but the things you do in the game of Minecraft with that server are covered.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from EvilAngel888

    Mojang simply wants to kill off regular servers inorder to grow their own Realms.


    I'm curious how much profit they actually make off of realms servers. I don't doubt they'll make money off of them, but I seriously doubt this is some sort of money grab on their part. Seems like they are just tired of getting complaints from people regarding some of these ridiculous "Pay for the golden magic sword of awesomeness" stuff that's going on with some servers. Most servers are probably being reasonable with pay items, but as it goes with most things, the bad actions of a few ruins things for the group as a whole.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from Gavinski37

    The only way I can think of stopping servers like this is to talk to hosting companies and stop their services, but they would lose all their money.


    Actually the court systems can compel the hosts to take down the servers for violation of copyright laws. I don't know if Mojang would go to that extent though, it's more likely that the server hosts would cooperate with them. The vast majority of servers should be unaffected by this. It's the big servers that will probably be widely impacted.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from Crusher48

    Okay, if Mojang really wanted to not have donation perks they should have cracked down instantly, instead of ruining many server owners that already established things based on donation. Does Mojang have good enough lawyers to take down the servers anyways?


    They had good enough lawyers to fight Bethesda/Zenimax to a draw on the whole Scrolls issue, so I doubt they'd have much trouble with server hosts.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from xilefian

    Those who are discussing the "fairness" problem;
    That should not even be Mojang's concern, they are private servers, not Mojang servers, key-word is private.

    They should be allowed to do what they want, it's their own resources that keeps their server running, if you think it's unfair then don't play on the server.

    This is one of the first rules of the internet kids used to learn back in the Quake 1 and IRC days; The internet is not a democracy, when you are only you are sitting on the operator's personal, private property, respect their rules and take up your problems with them directly, if you don't want to pay to be able to place blocks then don't join the server, their service is obviously wrong for you.

    By Mojang deciding (for some MASSIVELY insane reason) that making the internet a fair place is now their problem they are destroying a model of the internet that existed before online real-time games were even thought possible, not to mention that they are now pulling some of the responsibility of keeping players using private servers onto their own shoulders (Which they will do zero to act on, afterall they have Realms to worry about).


    This is a rushed, poorly thought-out decision made from the beliefs of the individuals at Mojang and it's getting majority support because the majority of Minecrafters are not server operators and have no interest in the broader ecosystem of the internet at all so want whatever benefits them most (Which is fairness).

    The internet is NOT a fair place, while I'm not going to defend the idea of "Charging players to be able to talk/place blocks/used a sword" I will certainly defend the right for server operators to decide how players interact with THEIR PROPERTY AND RESOURCES and I will NEVER support Mojang's decision to try and leverage a EULA agreement to control private server operations.


    This is my thoughts as a game engine programmer, gamer and someone who studied internet technology and history as to why these models exist in the first place.


    Mojang owns the code running on the server. It doesn't matter who pays for the hardware, bandwidth, etc. This would be like saying that Microsoft should allow you to sell their programs piecemeal on your private web server for your own profit because you own the hardware. That's not how software licensing works. Now if Mojang allowed hosts to resell their services through the EULA, that'd be completely different, but their clarification obviously prohibits that.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    If you have that much of an issue with affording a big server, then you make payment for entry mandatory if the donations aren't coming in. If the server is that compelling, you won't need to have an item for real money store. Personally I get the feeling that some (but not all) of the people upset are trying to make a living just running a Minecraft server and are upset that their profits are going to get cut into because they are doing something that is at best unfair and at worst a violation of the EULA. I don't buy that items need to be sold for a server to survive, I was once a regular on a server that got by with just donations only and had a server population of well over 100 people. I guess my suggestion for people who just stick to the idea that this is going to kill Minecraft should go code a Minecraft clone and distribute it how they please. Mojang is well within their right to do this and personally I feel that this probably should've been enforced a long while ago.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from EvilAngel888

    Which means that all regular servers, who dont exploit their users with "only allowed to use diamond tools if you pay". Will die. They will witch hunt every regular server that exist and not only the big servers or the ones that really exploits people.


    Some servers will die because of this, because there are some shady servers out there. I think most of the problems you predict are unfounded though. Most servers will have to make some adjustments, that much is true. But honestly, this is Mojangs game, and it's their right to insist on these policies. They own the code, pure and simple. It doesn't matter who is hosting the server or how much they had to pay to get hosting. As servers die and hosting companies find their profits fall, perhaps they'll get more competitive in pricing and trends will reverse. Either way, I can't believe that people actually pay for items in Minecraft anyways. Then again I've always hated F2P with a passion with very few exceptions (basically the few games I've played where F2P really meant F2P like Dota 2, Paths of Exile, and LoL all have a good, honest models that are not P2W).
    Quote from KoboldGiraffe

    Not all servers are pay-to-win. This affects many servers, Hypixel for example is still fun even without donating, and that's how they make money. The thousands of dollars they have to spend a month for their server makes it near impossible for them to make it all just by generous donations. Sadly, people don't pay for nothing. They need something.

    My server's not abusive, I do however need to have Kits of which need to be paid for, you can still earn them in other ways (I cycle through free kits every week and you can also buy a one-time Random kit which will give you a random kit from the selection). This is going to shutdown many servers if Mojang truly does get their way. Hypixel, TheHive, Shotbow, MCPvP, all the servers and more will be shutdown. They can't afford their server.

    Hosters will certainly be affected as likely over 60% of the servers on Minecraft will have to shutdown.

    Developers, being a developer I like to make some money on some servers. I don't always do private plugins, but occasionally. This removes that, as Server Owners will barely be able to afford their server as it is. Also if you have public plugin, you will no longer get as much traffic, as most servers will be gone.

    Builders same as developers as far as public and private builds.

    Server Owners, of course these are the people effected the most as said above, it becomes EXTREMELY difficult to make money. We don't get generous donations for nothing, people just don't do that. It's the sad truth.



    I don't believe this will ever go through, I don't plan to take action until I see it officially in the EULA. All I see right now is a topic on their site, these rules are not official yet. Also, there's not really a way for Mojang to take our servers. As someone else said, they can't find our hosts, at least it's extremely difficult for them. I don't think Mojang really wants to go through this much of a hassle to deal with these servers. The only thing I can think of is them putting server IPs on a Blacklist.

    So, I really don't know if this is true, probably isn't really what they're doing. But I think the whole reason Mojang could be doing this, is to make it big in the Minecraft community, this actually is telling a lot of parents that Mojang was indeed NOT involved. Who knows, I'm just waiting to see more information.

    I will NOT follow these rules before my server shuts down, I will however put in TOS stating that Mojang was NOT involved. I understand why Mojang's doing this, but they need to know that Minecraft was made without rules.

    Anyway, it's Mojang's descision, but if this goes too far to shutdown my server, I will likely quit Minecraft. As the freedom is what made me love it the most.

    Sorry if this offended anyone in anyway, I'm simply stating MY opinion. Feel free to comment to me, I'm open to discussions.


    I'm curious why you have to have kits that need to be paid for? Not being sarcastic, I'm really curious.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from EvilAngel888

    No I dont expect the player amount to explode, but I expect it to be targeted by greifers because it's a new and "weak" server.


    Griefers are easy as pie to handle. You initially only give spectator access, force people to sign up on a forum, and immediately revoke access if someone starts causing problems. Oh and, don't give them TNT until they prove they're a mature person who can keep from making phallus statues (unless your server is into that sort of thing :P) and blowing everything up with TNT. You're never going to have zero problems, but there are effective ways of dealing with all problems if you plan effectively. But then, I have two young children so I'm always thinking about what problems will arise since my kids grief our house on a daily basis. Just yesterday the youngest left a bag of cereal (still don't know how he reached it) under my desk and when I sat down it spilled all over the floor. I can handle virtual TNT ;)
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from EvilAngel888

    Yeah over time. but the first few month it will most likely only be the server owner, you want the server owner to handle all greifing done on the server when tnt is allowed??


    You are expecting a server to explode overnight. Most servers I know of have built up over months or even years. If I was running a server and let's say I did experience such a monumental growth, I'd probably recruit mods with the idea that I'd also keep an eye on how they handle situations and replace/remove mods if they start acting douchey. You're never going to have zero drama or zero problems. That's why you also maintain the capability to roll back stuff if things get really out of hand. I certainly wouldn't allow the wide use of TNT in the early days of a server for anyone other than a mod anyways.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from EvilAngel888

    But they haven't specified a thing at all. Like does warp count? tpa? extra homes? alot of stuff is unanswered as to what defines gameplay in their world.


    Actually they were pretty damn clear. If it's a feature of the game, you can't sell it individually apart from access to the server. I'd say that's pretty specific. So yeah, selling warps, tpa, extra plots, etc with real money would be a no no.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from EvilAngel888

    How on earth do you get a good set of mods when youre brand new?


    Well you can start with a group of mods being the server owner as the first mod, over time as the server grows, you build up trust in a community and as it grows the mod group grows as well. It's like any community, you can't build trust overnight, and certainly money alone doesn't engender trust in any gaming community I've ever been a part of. I've played in numerous MMO guilds where no money at all was involved and we managed to build engaged, honest, and trustworthy groups with a solid group of leaders, without having to bring out a credit card swiper. I respect your argument, but it's honestly a faulty one, in my humble opinion.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from EvilAngel888

    Id really like to see a brand new server get along with free acess to tnt.


    As he said, you have a good group of mods, you limit TNT based on a non-monetary ranking system where people earn the ability to use TNT based on good behavior and a willingness to contribute to the community, not on the size of their wallets. I've been on multiple servers that do this and it's always worked out well. I've been on a server that did what you suggest and it was a horrid community and needless to say I didn't stick around very long there.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from memoric

    I am wondering if mojang opted for standard buckshot or a 50. cal bullet when they went ahead and shot themselves in the foot with this EULA update.

    seeing as far as I can tell hardly any servers are even going to bother changing even the smallest little detail about their donations or the way they run things.

    oh well the fame, power and money was bound to go to your head sooner or later.
    congrats on the running start down the path that EA, Activsion and countless others have paved.


    They didn't shoot themselves in the foot, they saved themselves from what would've been a shot in the foot PR-wise if they continued to allow some of these ***-hat server owners to run sham operations of charging ridiculous fees for elite status, essentially. This thread is continually reminding me why I tend to favor SP and private MP servers over the big ones.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from EvilAngel888

    I completely agree that no one should be allowed to restrict things like tools etc. But let me come with a clear example of where I think restriction is a good thing for the server. Tnt. Not allowing non paying members to use tnt, is a good way to ease major greifing on a server, while allowing Tnt usage for Donators, as they have already proven that they are serious about the server, and theres generaly alot less donators than regular members. In that case, I would be in favor os restriction.


    Well my six year old son thinks that everyone should be able to use TNT, but this is why we don't let him play on other peoples servers ;)

    I get what you say, but I think there are ways to control griefers without making a paywall. Some of the better servers I've been on usually have a tiered ranking system and you have to basically behave well and contribute to the community to earn rank and eventually get the capability of using stuff like TNT.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Quote from Winter_Mage

    What worries me though is that what if people pay entry to the server but get banned immediately?


    That's why you pay with PayPal, so you can file a complaint with them to get a refund if the server people screw you over. This is also why I personally wouldn't pay any significant amount of money to join a server, as this is obviously a potential issue. That being said, if something like that happens I'd also come here and post about it (with screenshots as proof). Reputation is a big deal in the Minecraft community and most of the more mainstream servers want to maintain a good rep.
    Posted in: Discussion
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