What the hell is Lovecraft, and what exactly do you find true/untrue about my theories?
Lovecraft is the one who came up with the idea of an 'other' lurking just beyond human experience.
I find your theories nonsense because they rest on the assumption that there are strange and mystical worlds out there, completely strange from human experience.
Stream of consciousness, here we go:
The vast majority of volume in the universe is gas, in the form of Nebulae, etc. Not suitable for life.
There may be anti-matter planets out there, but we know that most of the universe is regular matter. These are a prime candidate for your lovecraftian life-forms.
The vast majority of mass in the universe is comprised of Hydrogen and Helium. When taking into account the Atomic masses of these elements we end up with a shitload of H and He in the universe, and not much of anything else. You can't build anything out of H and He other than H2.
Even just with Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen it is possible that a lifeform could exist, but they would have to have extremely inefficient inner chemistries due to the lack of building-blocks. The probability of such an organism evolving to macroscopic proportions is unlikely at best.
You define life as anything that thinks, but how will the mechanism of "thinking" evolve? Clearly it is a need to process one's surroundings. How will the aliens exhibit this need? If they don't have limbs and are unable to affect the world by their thinking, what purpose does the thinking serve?
It would be more sensible to assume that the aliens will be largely oriented towards reproduction and survival, much like all evolution-based creatures.
Your analogy of human thought to plants is irrelevant, because plants are served no benefit by thinking. Everything they need is done for them, with no input to or from a nervous system.
Your obsession with 'strangeness' to humans is indicative of Lovecraft's work, and is a well-established trope.
I feel that the common creationist response is necessary, as you clearly seem to believe that life can become complex without evolution. This is akin to thinking that a million springs, gears, dials, cases, etc could be thrown in a pile and just 'accidentally' fall into a million perfectly crafted watches. There is never, and will never be a form of life which isn't based off the concept of reproducing copies of its genes for future generations.
The original self-replicating proteins were probably not a DNA molecule yet, and they certainly did not have a gene for "replicating, occasionally mutating, and focusing on survival". The gene was to replicate, it occasionally mutated due to chance and chaos, and it survived due to luck and favorable conditions.
Except that life will flourish on any Earth-like planet that doesn't get totally destroyed. Again, the whole point of evolution is individuals, and it doesn't function without them. As long as there are lots of little individuals running around, the survivors will repopulate after any catastrophe.
Cells are a nice adaptation, and one that seems fairly obvious when you consider how simple a cell-wall is. In fact, how would an organism even go about becoming more complex without a cell-wall? There's no well defined barrier between the creature and it's surroundings, so it will more than likely stay with all it's components covalently bonded to itself, which would make it a single molecule/protein.
Your belief that alien life would be exotic and different stems from your fundamental misbelief that the universe is exotic. It isn't it's mostly empty space with lots of stars, black holes(don't even pretend life could exist in there), and gas giants. A couple of ice planets, Carbon planets, and that's pretty much it. Earth is extremely unique in being the result of a Supernovae, which allows us access to the huge palette of building blocks available to us.
Let's review on the whole "communicating with us" thing. Humans can sense vibrations between 20 hz and 20 khz. EVERYTHING MAKES NOISE IN THIS RANGE. We can see electromagnetic radiation between 400 nm and 700 nm(A fairly small range, but sufficient to see any form of matter). We can ****ing smell or taste individual molecules, for god's sake. We can feel just about any contact with our skin, whether that be pressure, vibrations, or something else. In summary, humans can sense just about everything in the universe, assuming it doesn't kill or maim us.
It's kind of amusing that you call vocal communication crude, since it takes so little energy compared to body language. Your assumption that we can't understand Chimpanzees is amusing. Perhaps they just don't have anything to say(short of very general cries of the type an infant makes: joy, sadness, anger, etc).
I agree however, that they likely wouldn't be able to communicate with us vocally. That's fine though, with the array of senses humans have we could surely find a method of communication, even if it meant we had to build a machine to interpret for us.
About the rosetta thing, are you confused? Wikipedia says the third script of the rosetta stone is ancient greek...
Telepathy? Why don't we just speculate on the existence of gods if we're going so far into the realm of pseudo-science?
A human's will to live is not guided only by an irrational fear of death and quest of knowledge. That might be your reason to live, but not humanities. Humanity lives to reproduce, our genetic survival thus far guarantees it. They will too. Evolution decrees it.
I don't agree that a culture slightly more advanced than us would surely have found us. What if the limitations of the universe are real and it's impossible to communicate or travel at faster than light speed? They could know of our existence, and a transmission could be coming towards us as we speak, but be 10 years yet from arriving. Entirely plausible.
p.s. DNA stores information imperfectly. That's the whole point.
I've been through this before. I went through Early 90's Grunge, Late 90's Pop, Early 00's Emo, Late 00's Indie.
My response will be the same for this one.
Who cares. Wait three years, and you'll be in my camp with the next pointless music craze. (Or you'll be one of those guys who can't let go, in which case, you'll be like Mr_GreenMan, crapping all over the next music craze because it's different than your music craze.)
I've already transitioned to the next big thing,(Witch-house, it's gonna be ****ing big once it hits mainstream, I swear, man :sad.gif: ) Dubstep is still cool though.
I ridicule overweight people a lot more than smokers.
Same here, man. Same here. Freakin' hate over-entitled fatties. At least smokers are alright with the fact that their addiction is killing them slowly...
1. Mononoke TV
2. Elfen Lied
3. Neon Genesis Evangelion
4. Higurashi no Naku Koro ni
5. Samurai Champloo
6. Cowboy Bebop
7. Eden of the East
8. Honey and Clover
9. Bartender
10. One Piece
I don't actually listen to that much dubstep...I probably only know 20 bands or so. Better than the 5-band standard of your average brostepper, but eh.
1: Do not call yourself a dubstep group. Go instead for a hybrid genre, like "Dubstep-Rock" or "Dubstep-Electronica." This widens your audience. Plus you'll need some footing once dubstep falls out of style, which will be in the next 5 years. It is a fad genre, and once it dies down there will be only one or two token artists still making it almost on principle alone. Trust me, dubstep is not around to stay.
Dubstep is here to stay, WUBWUBWUBWUB a.k.a. Brostep isn't.
I proposed there are forms of energy production and harvesting that defy the basis of what allows carbon based life to function. On earth we require complex ecosystem, trophic levels, flora, fauna. Plants produce ATP via a combination of photosynthesis, then standard oxidative phosphorylation. This is what forms the relationships between organisms, and the only reason fauna as we know it came to be.
However, just because we rely on the reaction potential of phosphates, and strung together amino acids / complimentary base pairing of nucleotides doesn't mean another organism couldn't function on different forms of energy, and develop from different things. The reaction potential required for movement may have an entirely basis, because the concept of movement over a physical plane has changed, as the state of the "life" has drastically changed. There could be forms of life in the center of our planet for all we know, our crude senses take in less than a millionth of the energy around us. We could even share this planet with beings we aren't aware of.
I'll admit, my point wasn't well flushed out, more in the interest of time than anything else. I also hadn't read his statement in its entirety. My bad for jumping to conclusions.
This seems a bit more reasonable than what I initially thought you were saying(and sorry for sounding confrontational if it came off that way).
I would tend to disagree with saying that "life could essentially exist anywhere" however. The only form of life we know was born on a planet with pretty extraordinary conditions, even when looked at from a strictly chemical view.
Final Fantasy 8, Harvest Moon:Back to Nature, Rollercoaster Tycoon, The Sims, Lunar 2:Eternal Blue, Super Mario RPG: The Legend of the 7 stars, Megaman Legends 2 - Awesome Tier
This is a lot of assuming, with absolutely baseless garbage to back it up. Presumptuous waste of the electrons it took to store it on a server. Alien life is practically a given, whether it be nothing beyond tiny microbes, or forms of "existence" we can't even begin to comprehend. Imagine a plane where there is no light, there is no energy in its traditional forms (radiation), hell, no matter that fits the laws we've perceived on our planet. Yet life could still exist in some form there. Unknown and incomprehensible to our mind comparatively.
I think if humanity ever makes it to space, our "scientific laws" governing life are going to change, fast.
The concept of entropy makes life that's not evolution based unlikely. What do you propose these beings on the non-material plane be made of? How do they achieve movement without any form of incoming energy?
Are you grouping observation and logical deduction as baseless garbage?
Morals are based what is necessary for a human society to run smoothly. Killing of animals is irrelevant to a properly running society. Pets have a special place in our hearts, but at the end of the day they're still animals.
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You can get second-hand depression though, which is why I advise ostracizing fatties.
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Lovecraft is the one who came up with the idea of an 'other' lurking just beyond human experience.
I find your theories nonsense because they rest on the assumption that there are strange and mystical worlds out there, completely strange from human experience.
Stream of consciousness, here we go:
The vast majority of volume in the universe is gas, in the form of Nebulae, etc. Not suitable for life.
There may be anti-matter planets out there, but we know that most of the universe is regular matter. These are a prime candidate for your lovecraftian life-forms.
The vast majority of mass in the universe is comprised of Hydrogen and Helium. When taking into account the Atomic masses of these elements we end up with a shitload of H and He in the universe, and not much of anything else. You can't build anything out of H and He other than H2.
Even just with Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen it is possible that a lifeform could exist, but they would have to have extremely inefficient inner chemistries due to the lack of building-blocks. The probability of such an organism evolving to macroscopic proportions is unlikely at best.
You define life as anything that thinks, but how will the mechanism of "thinking" evolve? Clearly it is a need to process one's surroundings. How will the aliens exhibit this need? If they don't have limbs and are unable to affect the world by their thinking, what purpose does the thinking serve?
It would be more sensible to assume that the aliens will be largely oriented towards reproduction and survival, much like all evolution-based creatures.
Your analogy of human thought to plants is irrelevant, because plants are served no benefit by thinking. Everything they need is done for them, with no input to or from a nervous system.
Your obsession with 'strangeness' to humans is indicative of Lovecraft's work, and is a well-established trope.
I feel that the common creationist response is necessary, as you clearly seem to believe that life can become complex without evolution. This is akin to thinking that a million springs, gears, dials, cases, etc could be thrown in a pile and just 'accidentally' fall into a million perfectly crafted watches. There is never, and will never be a form of life which isn't based off the concept of reproducing copies of its genes for future generations.
The original self-replicating proteins were probably not a DNA molecule yet, and they certainly did not have a gene for "replicating, occasionally mutating, and focusing on survival". The gene was to replicate, it occasionally mutated due to chance and chaos, and it survived due to luck and favorable conditions.
Except that life will flourish on any Earth-like planet that doesn't get totally destroyed. Again, the whole point of evolution is individuals, and it doesn't function without them. As long as there are lots of little individuals running around, the survivors will repopulate after any catastrophe.
Cells are a nice adaptation, and one that seems fairly obvious when you consider how simple a cell-wall is. In fact, how would an organism even go about becoming more complex without a cell-wall? There's no well defined barrier between the creature and it's surroundings, so it will more than likely stay with all it's components covalently bonded to itself, which would make it a single molecule/protein.
Your belief that alien life would be exotic and different stems from your fundamental misbelief that the universe is exotic. It isn't it's mostly empty space with lots of stars, black holes(don't even pretend life could exist in there), and gas giants. A couple of ice planets, Carbon planets, and that's pretty much it. Earth is extremely unique in being the result of a Supernovae, which allows us access to the huge palette of building blocks available to us.
Let's review on the whole "communicating with us" thing. Humans can sense vibrations between 20 hz and 20 khz. EVERYTHING MAKES NOISE IN THIS RANGE. We can see electromagnetic radiation between 400 nm and 700 nm(A fairly small range, but sufficient to see any form of matter). We can ****ing smell or taste individual molecules, for god's sake. We can feel just about any contact with our skin, whether that be pressure, vibrations, or something else. In summary, humans can sense just about everything in the universe, assuming it doesn't kill or maim us.
It's kind of amusing that you call vocal communication crude, since it takes so little energy compared to body language. Your assumption that we can't understand Chimpanzees is amusing. Perhaps they just don't have anything to say(short of very general cries of the type an infant makes: joy, sadness, anger, etc).
I agree however, that they likely wouldn't be able to communicate with us vocally. That's fine though, with the array of senses humans have we could surely find a method of communication, even if it meant we had to build a machine to interpret for us.
About the rosetta thing, are you confused? Wikipedia says the third script of the rosetta stone is ancient greek...
Telepathy? Why don't we just speculate on the existence of gods if we're going so far into the realm of pseudo-science?
A human's will to live is not guided only by an irrational fear of death and quest of knowledge. That might be your reason to live, but not humanities. Humanity lives to reproduce, our genetic survival thus far guarantees it. They will too. Evolution decrees it.
I don't agree that a culture slightly more advanced than us would surely have found us. What if the limitations of the universe are real and it's impossible to communicate or travel at faster than light speed? They could know of our existence, and a transmission could be coming towards us as we speak, but be 10 years yet from arriving. Entirely plausible.
p.s. DNA stores information imperfectly. That's the whole point.
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Naturally; it does take years for the masses to catch on though, you understand.
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I've already transitioned to the next big thing,(Witch-house, it's gonna be ****ing big once it hits mainstream, I swear, man :sad.gif: ) Dubstep is still cool though.
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Same here, man. Same here. Freakin' hate over-entitled fatties. At least smokers are alright with the fact that their addiction is killing them slowly...
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1. Mononoke TV
2. Elfen Lied
3. Neon Genesis Evangelion
4. Higurashi no Naku Koro ni
5. Samurai Champloo
6. Cowboy Bebop
7. Eden of the East
8. Honey and Clover
9. Bartender
10. One Piece
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2. Distance
3. 2562
4. Skream
5. Burial
6. Horsepower Productions
7. Digital Mystikz
8. Benga
9. Vex'd
10. Starkey
I don't actually listen to that much dubstep...I probably only know 20 bands or so. Better than the 5-band standard of your average brostepper, but eh.
An example of my style of dubstep/2-step garage:
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I was using "animal" to mean specifically "Anything that's not human", sorry if that wasn't blindingly clear.
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Dubstep is here to stay, WUBWUBWUBWUB a.k.a. Brostep isn't.
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http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9559/1320211886206.jpg
I've not heard a surprising amount of this stuff.
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This seems a bit more reasonable than what I initially thought you were saying(and sorry for sounding confrontational if it came off that way).
I would tend to disagree with saying that "life could essentially exist anywhere" however. The only form of life we know was born on a planet with pretty extraordinary conditions, even when looked at from a strictly chemical view.
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following this format.
Pokemon red/blue, SeikenDensetsu 3, Chrono Trigger, Valkyrie Profile - God Tier
Final Fantasy 8, Harvest Moon:Back to Nature, Rollercoaster Tycoon, The Sims, Lunar 2:Eternal Blue, Super Mario RPG: The Legend of the 7 stars, Megaman Legends 2 - Awesome Tier
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The concept of entropy makes life that's not evolution based unlikely. What do you propose these beings on the non-material plane be made of? How do they achieve movement without any form of incoming energy?
Are you grouping observation and logical deduction as baseless garbage?
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