I don't understand. Assuming people are going to be allowed to have alliances anyway, why not just release it as soon as possible? It'll just have the same effect, but earlier. It wouldn't really harm the competition, unless you guys are doing the ceremonials such as training, dinner, interviews, etc and want to start alliances then.
Actually, alliances and friendships evolve over time. If people can talk and "buddy-up" before the games, then their alliance will be that much stronger when the game starts. IE: If people start talking and discussing a year before the game, obviously people will have time (and shall) to make alliances and enemies. Meaning, when the game starts, it will already be similar to a 2 sided war (TeamA v TeamB). Then, after the initial conflict, the two alliances would be so strong and unwavering (since they are familiar and trust eachother quite well already. Whereas if people cannot talk until the games officially start, they wouldnt have time to make said alliances and enemies and thus the beginning will be a free-for-all (and throughout the games the alliances would be less trusting and more cautious since the people are not familiar with eachother even near as much). I hope Im making sense with this (currently reading Heiddegger so I dont want to think much right now ) and if anyone wants clarification, please let me know. It's basic group communications, though (a good exercise is thinking of friends: are you more comfortable with someone you have known for your entire life or someone you just met on the street 5 seconds ago?).
Now with this, as a diplomacy and mafia player, I advocate against setting up a list and keeping the contestants known as little to eachother as possible (just notify someone if they're in or out and dont tell them who else is in... let them find out when stepping off the cornucopia). This should make a more chaotic game with much more backstabbing and deceit since everyone will not be able to trust eachother because they dont know eachother. However, perhaps let each person know who else is from their district shortly before the game starts so that they have at least someone to help them through the initial conflict (this should make it more enjoyable for the contestants since they will not feel completely isolated as well as keep the entertainment and balance of the game). Thoughts?
I apologise if this has all been discussed already... Im still trying to catch up (school is being a pain).
To feel productive while catching up (between work, school and npo stuff, its a challenge to read a 100 pages of posts), has anyone done some theoretical simulations of the game to get an idea of how long it will take? If not, then may someone tell me the agreed upon number of players, size of arena and the agreed upon items in the arena. With that, ill run a few dozen simulations and figure out how long it should take with what items the victor will be weilding. If this has already been done then great!
OLD MEMBERS:
shouting out to all of our (hopefully) still loyal older members who have done too much for us to be forgotten. Hope we see some old faces coming back!
Thanks for the invite back ^-^ After the Planner mishap (I was the only planner who was trying and even then, builders et al. were taking our job xD), I was worried about coming back (and whether there would be anything to come back to). I am glad that this is still going pretty strong!
I am currently trying to catch up ASAP. Expect me to come back to this as strong as ever.
Edit: Anyone want to give a synopsis of the past 100 pages or so?
Ever wanted to kill a person in an argument? Here's your chance!
CYRANO DE BERGERAC MAFIA: THE MURDER OF CARBON (COMING SOON)
Greetings all and welcome! Before I post up specifics to the game, I just wanted to see, first and foremost, how much interest there is to a mafia game. I have a 7 player game designed and 12 player game designed depending on how much interest there is. The basics of mafia are simple:
"[Mafia is] a battle between an informed minority and an uninformed majority. Players are secretly assigned roles: either "mafia", who know each other; or "townspeople", who know only the number of mafia amongst them. In the game's "night" phase the mafia covertly 'murder' a townsperson. During the day phase, all of the surviving players debate the identities of the mafia and vote to eliminate a suspect. Play continues until all of the mafia have been eliminated, or until the mafia outnumber the townspeople. A typical game starts with seven townspeople and two Mafiosi." -Wikipedia on Mafia(I recommend to look over it)
Both people who have played this game before and those who seem interested in it but have never played a game of mafia before are welcome! :smile.gif: This game will be beginner friendly and should be a fun game of lies, deceit, debate and murder!
Rules sheet to come up soon (still typing it up) along with background of the game and a sign-up sheet. Please post if you have interest (I'll decide what setup to use depending on popularity). Any and all thoughts, questions and comments are welcome! :smile.gif:
RULES:
Factions:
There are two factions: Loyalists and Murderers.
The Loyalists are those who are loyal to the Carbon.
The Murderers are those who killed the Carbon.
Victory Conditions:
Loyalists win if they lynch all the Murderers.
Murderers win if, at any given point, their numbers equal to or are greater than the Loyalists.
Each person also has their own Personal Victory Condition(PVC). These PVCs differ from person to person and shall be revealed when you receive your role.
Phases:
There wil be two phases: Day and Night. Day shall last 72 hours and Night shall last 48(Speed deadlines will be in effect, however)
Day:
During the day, everyone gets together and may talk publicly. This phase lasts 72 hours and is the main phase of the game. During the day, there will be a vote on a lynchee. Who shall be lynched at the end of the day.
Night:
Nights last for 48 hours. Nobody may talk publicly at this time (everyone is suppose to be sleeping). During this night, all roles and special abilities may be used. At this time, the Murderers may select a target to kill. Any and all players who didnt PM me their orders will have their target randomized via random.org.
Lynch:
Lynch votes must be clear to me as a GM so that I can tally the votes. To do this, all votes must be in size “6” font and in red (#FF0000). The lynch vote is a vote of plurality. The person with the most votes on them dies at the end of the day. No Lynch IS an acceptable vote but Abstain IS NOT.
Death:
There are two ways to die: Lynch or Night Kill. All players who die will have their faction (Loyalist or Murderer) and role revealed upon the end of the current phase. When one is dead, they cannot post in the thread nor pm anybody in the game about the game... even if it is just a smart retort... Dead men tell no tales. After the game will be an after-action report(AAR). You may make any remarks and thoughts about the game here.
Editing:
DO NOT edit your posts (Mods, if you have a problem with this, please PM me. Keep in mind that this is a game of lying and deceiving. Therefore, what people say, how they phrase is and how often people speak are all very important to this game. In other words, editing posts ruins the game) Deleting a post is considered as editing it. If you have more to say please DOUBLE POST. Even if one is simply fixing a typo, DO NOT EDIT YOUR POST. Point out your mistake by making another post. If I catch someone editing their post, I shall mod-kill them.
GM Messages:
You may not copy GM messages. If you do, you will be mod-killed. No exceptions. However, you may rephrase them... but you must change its wording and no quoting.
You may NOT attempt to use GM PMs to determine someone's alignment. This includes but is not limited to asking someone for the phrase used in their PMs, or whether someone has a certain colour, symbol, or word present. Please follow both the spirit and letter of this rule.
PM'ing:
Some players may have the ability to pm during the day and/or the night. These people will be notified that they can do so. All mafia can PM eachother at any time unless told otherwise by the GM. There are two types of PM'ing: Direct and Indirect. Direct is directly to the recipient (With GM cc-ed in the conversation), while indirect is throught the GM and is done anonymously.
Inactivity:
If someone does not talk once during the 72 hour day period nor inputs their orders for the night, they shall be replaced.
Roles:
Every person will receive a PM before the game starts of their Faction, Name, some flavour text, their ability and their Victory conditions (Both PVCs and their Faction VC)
If you have any questions, please dont be afraid to ask!
OT: Nice vid. unfortunately, when i input that seed it gives me a different seed when I press f3 and when i go to the stated co-ordinates it's a little different.
While pocketing someone's lace, a chill ran down Nero's spine. He stopped what he was doing and looks out into the streets to see a man in a dark cloak coming closer and closer. "The eyes of a killer," he whispered to himself when he could see the vague form of the man's face before him.
OOC: I hope it isn't too late to join. Admittedly I haven't read all the pages (still working on that) But I have at least somewhat of a sense where everyone is.
IC: Nero dons on an old white fake beard and then slips under the crowd in front of the tavern. He walks up to the bar and climbs on a stool that's almost as tall as him. "Give me a cup of your best ale, please!" Nero says trying to make his voice sound as deep as possible. The bartender stares at the boy. Nero, thinking that his cover is blown starts to get a little nervous. The colossal man behind the counter then gives the boy a cup. 'Yes,' Nero thought to himself, 'it finally worked!'. Placing the goblet in his tiny hands, he takes a sip and starts choking on the vile taste. The Bartender laughs as he tears off the boy's faux-beard. "That'll teach you," he says as his huge, hands drops the beard onto the floor beside him "Now take that as a lesson, boy!" "My father is a knight you know, he'll have you for this," the boy retorts. Nero jumps off the stool, slightly embarrassed that he got caught, and goes into the crowd in front of the bar. 'hmm, there's still some fun to be had' he thinks sinisterly. Being short has its uses in a crowd. Nero takes out his rusty knife (which is more like a short sword to a boy so small) off his belt and starts to cut off the lace of people's sleeves, unbeknown to them.
Stats:
Nero
Sober
Scheming
In front of the bar
20 gold (he is but a boy after all)
great mod! The only thing that I am not a big fan of is how uncommon the trees are. I get one, maybe two trees per large island. Which would not usually be too big of a problem but all the mobs there are demands a sword ASAP.
Also, I might not be a modeler but if you ever wish to have original music written for this mod I would be glad to help. I've been studying C418's music for a couple weeks now so the music I could write should blend well with his selection.
edit: nevermind, the I am finding some more trees. I guess I just got unlucky when making my first 3 worlds or so XD but trees could become a bit more common. Not much but a little bit more.
also, you might want to change the texture of AEther Dirt with snow for it is still the default texture.
Does free will exist? I.e, do we consciously control our thoughts and beliefs? I don't think that we do, and here's why.
To start this off, we first have to say how we form beliefs. Beliefs are formed entirely from external factors we pick up with our cognitive senses. Sight and sound most notably, but also taste, smell, and touch. Another big factor is how we interpret language, and the meanings we have for words, and the context they're used in. With this in mind, it is important to realize that no belief we have can be based completely internally. The influence of something you see, hear, feel, taste, or smell will ALWAYS be there.
Another important concept, is that you cannot truly believe two contradicting beliefs. Even if you think you do, your brain can really only believe one. For example, let's say that your friend invites you over to your house. Your friend, Steve we'll call him, tells you that his house is South from yours. However, you go on Mapquest, and it tells you that Steve's house is North from yours. Steve's house obviously can't be North and South from you, so you have to pick one of these. Your brain might recall experiences of people misspeaking, and experiences of Mapquest giving blatantly wrong directions. Obviously, the former is more likely, so you would take Mapquest's advice, and go North.
Your reaction to that is important for two reasons. One, because your belief of Mapquest being right was based on things that you've heard, and experienced. And two, because your belief directly influenced your action, which was going North. As Sam Harris said, this is because "Beliefs are principles of action." This simply means that everything you do is based on one, or several, beliefs you have.
Now, go back to what we said about beliefs being based on external factors. Those factors are what decides whether you accept a new belief that contradicts one you already have, and replace it, or reject it. Whether you replace or reject is not a conscious decision. You can not control what you believe. And since actions are principles of beliefs, and directly influenced by your beliefs, therefore, you cannot control your actions either.
Thoughts? Criticism? Questions?
I'm not a writer, so I probably just rambled. This is my first time writing this out. Just something I've been thinking about.
If I'm understanding correctly, you are saying all knowledge comes from external sources. If so, how does math and logical thought come in? Clearly we do not "experience" y=mx+b or a^2+b^2=c^2. We do not find these things through experience but through logic. What are we experiencing in the theoretical world through our cognitive senses?
First off, truth ALWAYS trumps the appearance of truth and ignorance. I can't believe I have to state that. I just hope I don't have to argue it for if I do then I feel sorry for this age.
Now that's settled, if we are predetermined, (1) how is it predetermined? Also, (2) to what extent are our actions predetermined? Lastly, if we are predetermined, (3) would this destroy ethics and freewill?
Determinism is the view that all things are causally conditioned in such a way that they cannot be otherwise. This causes the denial of freewill. which thus becomes the destruction of morality as we know it as people cannot claim fault for their actions because they had no choice. However, that's a little inaccurate as one can argue that there are two forms of determinism: Soft and Hard.
Hard determinism is the view that all things are determined ultimately by external factors and one has no control. So, I did A because of B and C. The two common beliefs for hard determinism is that all things are either inherent in our genes and we are conditioned by our environment (Nature v. Nurture in its purest form). I'll avoid some ethical issues and misnomers here but essentially ethics is both compatible and incompatible with this.
Soft-Determinism is the view that our actions are determined within the individual. They are determined by our desires, our emotions, our personality our character. Most soft-determinists believe that soft-determinism is necessary for morality because actions are judged as moral or immoral and our actions reflect our intentions, desires, etc.
Now, what is free will, I might ask. That our actions are not chosen? If that then there is no free will because do we not choose our actions before we do them? Or do our muscles just spasm and I have no physical control of my being? Or do you mean that we choose our actions internally? If that then our actions can be determined and yet have free will through soft-determinism.
Hope I didn't go into too much depth as op wished people wouldnt. I'm simply trying to clarify a few things.
Edit: Fixed non-sentence thingy in it :tongue.gif:
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Actually, alliances and friendships evolve over time. If people can talk and "buddy-up" before the games, then their alliance will be that much stronger when the game starts. IE: If people start talking and discussing a year before the game, obviously people will have time (and shall) to make alliances and enemies. Meaning, when the game starts, it will already be similar to a 2 sided war (TeamA v TeamB). Then, after the initial conflict, the two alliances would be so strong and unwavering (since they are familiar and trust eachother quite well already. Whereas if people cannot talk until the games officially start, they wouldnt have time to make said alliances and enemies and thus the beginning will be a free-for-all (and throughout the games the alliances would be less trusting and more cautious since the people are not familiar with eachother even near as much). I hope Im making sense with this (currently reading Heiddegger so I dont want to think much right now
Now with this, as a diplomacy and mafia player, I advocate against setting up a list and keeping the contestants known as little to eachother as possible (just notify someone if they're in or out and dont tell them who else is in... let them find out when stepping off the cornucopia). This should make a more chaotic game with much more backstabbing and deceit since everyone will not be able to trust eachother because they dont know eachother. However, perhaps let each person know who else is from their district shortly before the game starts so that they have at least someone to help them through the initial conflict (this should make it more enjoyable for the contestants since they will not feel completely isolated as well as keep the entertainment and balance of the game). Thoughts?
I apologise if this has all been discussed already... Im still trying to catch up (school is being a pain).
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0
Thanks for the invite back ^-^ After the Planner mishap (I was the only planner who was trying and even then, builders et al. were taking our job xD), I was worried about coming back (and whether there would be anything to come back to). I am glad that this is still going pretty strong!
I am currently trying to catch up ASAP. Expect me to come back to this as strong as ever.
Edit: Anyone want to give a synopsis of the past 100 pages or so?
0
CYRANO DE BERGERAC MAFIA: THE MURDER OF CARBON (COMING SOON)
Greetings all and welcome! Before I post up specifics to the game, I just wanted to see, first and foremost, how much interest there is to a mafia game. I have a 7 player game designed and 12 player game designed depending on how much interest there is. The basics of mafia are simple:
"[Mafia is] a battle between an informed minority and an uninformed majority. Players are secretly assigned roles: either "mafia", who know each other; or "townspeople", who know only the number of mafia amongst them. In the game's "night" phase the mafia covertly 'murder' a townsperson. During the day phase, all of the surviving players debate the identities of the mafia and vote to eliminate a suspect. Play continues until all of the mafia have been eliminated, or until the mafia outnumber the townspeople. A typical game starts with seven townspeople and two Mafiosi."
-Wikipedia on Mafia(I recommend to look over it)
Both people who have played this game before and those who seem interested in it but have never played a game of mafia before are welcome! :smile.gif: This game will be beginner friendly and should be a fun game of lies, deceit, debate and murder!
Rules sheet to come up soon (still typing it up) along with background of the game and a sign-up sheet. Please post if you have interest (I'll decide what setup to use depending on popularity). Any and all thoughts, questions and comments are welcome! :smile.gif:
RULES:
Factions:
There are two factions: Loyalists and Murderers.
The Loyalists are those who are loyal to the Carbon.
The Murderers are those who killed the Carbon.
Victory Conditions:
Loyalists win if they lynch all the Murderers.
Murderers win if, at any given point, their numbers equal to or are greater than the Loyalists.
Each person also has their own Personal Victory Condition(PVC). These PVCs differ from person to person and shall be revealed when you receive your role.
Phases:
There wil be two phases: Day and Night. Day shall last 72 hours and Night shall last 48(Speed deadlines will be in effect, however)
Day:
During the day, everyone gets together and may talk publicly. This phase lasts 72 hours and is the main phase of the game. During the day, there will be a vote on a lynchee. Who shall be lynched at the end of the day.
Night:
Nights last for 48 hours. Nobody may talk publicly at this time (everyone is suppose to be sleeping). During this night, all roles and special abilities may be used. At this time, the Murderers may select a target to kill. Any and all players who didnt PM me their orders will have their target randomized via random.org.
Lynch:
Lynch votes must be clear to me as a GM so that I can tally the votes. To do this, all votes must be in size “6” font and in red (#FF0000). The lynch vote is a vote of plurality. The person with the most votes on them dies at the end of the day. No Lynch IS an acceptable vote but Abstain IS NOT.
Death:
There are two ways to die: Lynch or Night Kill. All players who die will have their faction (Loyalist or Murderer) and role revealed upon the end of the current phase. When one is dead, they cannot post in the thread nor pm anybody in the game about the game... even if it is just a smart retort... Dead men tell no tales. After the game will be an after-action report(AAR). You may make any remarks and thoughts about the game here.
Editing:
DO NOT edit your posts (Mods, if you have a problem with this, please PM me. Keep in mind that this is a game of lying and deceiving. Therefore, what people say, how they phrase is and how often people speak are all very important to this game. In other words, editing posts ruins the game) Deleting a post is considered as editing it. If you have more to say please DOUBLE POST. Even if one is simply fixing a typo, DO NOT EDIT YOUR POST. Point out your mistake by making another post. If I catch someone editing their post, I shall mod-kill them.
GM Messages:
You may not copy GM messages. If you do, you will be mod-killed. No exceptions. However, you may rephrase them... but you must change its wording and no quoting.
You may NOT attempt to use GM PMs to determine someone's alignment. This includes but is not limited to asking someone for the phrase used in their PMs, or whether someone has a certain colour, symbol, or word present. Please follow both the spirit and letter of this rule.
PM'ing:
Some players may have the ability to pm during the day and/or the night. These people will be notified that they can do so. All mafia can PM eachother at any time unless told otherwise by the GM. There are two types of PM'ing: Direct and Indirect. Direct is directly to the recipient (With GM cc-ed in the conversation), while indirect is throught the GM and is done anonymously.
Inactivity:
If someone does not talk once during the 72 hour day period nor inputs their orders for the night, they shall be replaced.
Roles:
Every person will receive a PM before the game starts of their Faction, Name, some flavour text, their ability and their Victory conditions (Both PVCs and their Faction VC)
If you have any questions, please dont be afraid to ask!
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0
0
P.D.Q., naturally xP who needs the others?
OT: Nice vid. unfortunately, when i input that seed it gives me a different seed when I press f3 and when i go to the stated co-ordinates it's a little different.
0
State:cautious
0
IC: Nero dons on an old white fake beard and then slips under the crowd in front of the tavern. He walks up to the bar and climbs on a stool that's almost as tall as him. "Give me a cup of your best ale, please!" Nero says trying to make his voice sound as deep as possible. The bartender stares at the boy. Nero, thinking that his cover is blown starts to get a little nervous. The colossal man behind the counter then gives the boy a cup. 'Yes,' Nero thought to himself, 'it finally worked!'. Placing the goblet in his tiny hands, he takes a sip and starts choking on the vile taste. The Bartender laughs as he tears off the boy's faux-beard. "That'll teach you," he says as his huge, hands drops the beard onto the floor beside him "Now take that as a lesson, boy!" "My father is a knight you know, he'll have you for this," the boy retorts. Nero jumps off the stool, slightly embarrassed that he got caught, and goes into the crowd in front of the bar. 'hmm, there's still some fun to be had' he thinks sinisterly. Being short has its uses in a crowd. Nero takes out his rusty knife (which is more like a short sword to a boy so small) off his belt and starts to cut off the lace of people's sleeves, unbeknown to them.
Stats:
Nero
Sober
Scheming
In front of the bar
20 gold (he is but a boy after all)
0
Well said! :smile.gif: I was about to say the same thing. It's niceone's mod and he should be the one making decisions :smile.gif:
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Also, I might not be a modeler but if you ever wish to have original music written for this mod I would be glad to help. I've been studying C418's music for a couple weeks now so the music I could write should blend well with his selection.
edit: nevermind, the I am finding some more trees. I guess I just got unlucky when making my first 3 worlds or so XD but trees could become a bit more common. Not much but a little bit more.
also, you might want to change the texture of AEther Dirt with snow for it is still the default texture.
0
If I'm understanding correctly, you are saying all knowledge comes from external sources. If so, how does math and logical thought come in? Clearly we do not "experience" y=mx+b or a^2+b^2=c^2. We do not find these things through experience but through logic. What are we experiencing in the theoretical world through our cognitive senses?
0
Now that's settled, if we are predetermined, (1) how is it predetermined? Also, (2) to what extent are our actions predetermined? Lastly, if we are predetermined, (3) would this destroy ethics and freewill?
Determinism is the view that all things are causally conditioned in such a way that they cannot be otherwise. This causes the denial of freewill. which thus becomes the destruction of morality as we know it as people cannot claim fault for their actions because they had no choice. However, that's a little inaccurate as one can argue that there are two forms of determinism: Soft and Hard.
Hard determinism is the view that all things are determined ultimately by external factors and one has no control. So, I did A because of B and C. The two common beliefs for hard determinism is that all things are either inherent in our genes and we are conditioned by our environment (Nature v. Nurture in its purest form). I'll avoid some ethical issues and misnomers here but essentially ethics is both compatible and incompatible with this.
Soft-Determinism is the view that our actions are determined within the individual. They are determined by our desires, our emotions, our personality our character. Most soft-determinists believe that soft-determinism is necessary for morality because actions are judged as moral or immoral and our actions reflect our intentions, desires, etc.
Now, what is free will, I might ask. That our actions are not chosen? If that then there is no free will because do we not choose our actions before we do them? Or do our muscles just spasm and I have no physical control of my being? Or do you mean that we choose our actions internally? If that then our actions can be determined and yet have free will through soft-determinism.
Hope I didn't go into too much depth as op wished people wouldnt. I'm simply trying to clarify a few things.
Edit: Fixed non-sentence thingy in it :tongue.gif:
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listen to this guy. *shudders*