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    Jul 18, 2014
    _Keldt_ posted a message on [TOOL] MC Model Maker - Design custom block models for minecraft 1.8+
    This looks very useful and it's great that it's free. I thought I heard about one of these (one of the first ones I think) being something you'd have to buy (and being rather expensive actually).



    I'll keep an eye on this, thanks!
    Posted in: Minecraft Tools
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    Jun 24, 2014
    _Keldt_ posted a message on Minecraft Sweeper. Minesweeper Craft? Sweepcraft?
    Quote from Minecrafter2902

    it is already a gamemode on shotbow


    Shotbow used plugins though, so it's cool to see this done vanilla. It's also cool to see supporters of the creator telling us where we can find and meet the creator, and also to see the creator in one of the first comments. :)

    Well done, Magib!
    Posted in: Minecraft News
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    Jun 19, 2014
    _Keldt_ posted a message on EULA Revisited: an Updated Q&A From Mojang
    Quote from GoldK

    My point since the begining: If your patrons wants to support your server with pure donations, then good for you. If they don't want to, then you have no choice but to scale down the server or shut it down. No one is forcing you to maintain your server size with reduced income.


    And my point: It'd be really really nice (also really really different from the way most EULAs work, I know) if the big servers didn't have to scale down because Mojang suddenly decides they want to enforce their EULA now. There's a nice balance where things are with the big servers where they float on "donations" and their stores, allowing people who don't actually want to spend anything to play on the server with those who felt like paying for stuff.
    Now, do what Mojang did and forget the EULA for a while. Disregard whether this community is legal or not, and think about it. This server is acting just like a "F2P" MMO game with microtransactions. If the big server in question is a minigame server, now think about this: were it not for Mojang's disregard for their own EULA, would this kind of experience be available anywhere? Think of trying to develop, [i]and then market[/i] a F2P MMO where all the players do is play one of a few unrelated minigames with other people.

    The community, through Minecraft, created a sort of semi-game that can be played (and enjoyed, as shown by anyone like me) without paying anything, because there are players out there who did pay. Their reasons for paying are about to get trimmed down to the goodness of their hearts, and servers, as you've said, are probably going to have to scale down because of this.

    There goes the MMO aspect; there goes quite a bit of publicity, which takes away some of the new players coming in who didn't hear about the server; there goes further development, in order to keep things small, and then servers just aren't the same anymore.

    [I had a bit more here, but then accidentally hit the mouse button for going back a page and lost it. Ugh.]

    Quote from GoldK

    So what if they don't want to spend money on priority access? Keep your server small then and scale it with your income. I am starting to think there is a requirement on how big your server is. Is there a hidden prize somewhere that awards the biggest server? Tell me about it


    Yes! There is. Bigger servers usually have the funds to pay for further development. This means that bigger servers will have more minigames, or more overall general content, than smaller servers. For quite a lot of people, that makes the bigger servers more fun. Scaling down a server does not come without consequences.

    Quote from GoldK

    Children are more prone to be tempted to buy power than a simple server access. Of course they could always complain about a server ripping them off when they realized it doesn't look what they thought it would be and the server will be in deep trouble to the masses. Children won't call paying $100 for a stack of diamond a ripoff because they don't know what is the real value of diamond on legit servers. Overall, it's harder to ripoff someone with server access over power because the power satisfaction over another player is gone.


    I'd hope that older and/or smarter players could complain "to the masses" about a server charging hundreds of dollars for diamonds, putting the server in deep trouble. Likewise, I'd hope the older or smarter players would know what the real value of diamonds or other gear is on other servers.

    Whether it's ripping people off with server power, or it's ripping people off with server entry, I feel like we're dealing with extremely similar situations. Both have a high possibility of brief success, followed by utter failure as soon as the scammers get to the wrong people.

    The children that I mentioned that fall so much more easily for scams like this will, of course, not be the only people who come across the scam. Sure, the children will will be able to see through the "new" scam, but it'll probably catch enough people that Mojang will still get letters from parents wanting their money back. That's my take on things, anyway.

    I hope I'm making sense right now, I'm rather tired.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    Jun 19, 2014
    _Keldt_ posted a message on EULA Revisited: an Updated Q&A From Mojang
    Quote from GoldK

    I am not oblivious to that which is why I am saying minecraft will have less massive public servers and more smaller and private ones. It is still minecraft minus the business. Nothing wrong with that unless you are a server owner wanting to make money or a player spoiled by being special in the server with the perks.

    Or how about if you're someone like me? I've spent no money on the Shotbow Network, but I'm still a server regular. You seem to have this idea that these huge servers had awful free content, and were only out to rip people off. If that was the case, these servers would not get nearly as much support as they do.

    Quote from thejbanto

    Mojang claims the new EULA is intended to save us from greedy server owners charging an arm and a leg for simple gameplay features. They've said you can't charge for gameplay features like kits and in-game currency, yet they've turned around and explicitly recommended you instead charge everyone in order to access their server. They say they don't want people to end up paying for the game twice, yet they quite hypocritically recommend exactly that. Instead of getting angry emails from parents about $500 credit card charges from a server selling a diamond sword, they'll get angry emails from parents about $500 credit card charges from a server selling the ability to simply log in and be whitelisted. The only way this makes sense to me is if there is a hidden agenda - one intended to handicap Minecraft servers so Mojang can save the failing realms service. Disgusting. #LitterallyWorseThanEA #SaveMinecraft


    I agree with and have stated myself all but this part:

    Quote from thejbanto

    The only way this makes sense to me is if there is a hidden agenda - one intended to handicap Minecraft servers so Mojang can save the failing realms service. Disgusting. #LitterallyWorseThanEA #SaveMinecraft


    Quote from GoldK

    Who said you need to charge upon entry? Why not use priority access model where paying members have the ability to join full servers by filling reserved slots or kicking out a non paying member? It's hilarious how people are conspiring about Mojang being greedy when they can't see the greed of server owners luring and selling digital power to make tons of money out of a game they just bought for $27 or even for nothing if we are talking about cracked servers.


    I agree with you about the Mojang hate bit, but:

    I feel like (Note, I'm speaking while having zero experience hosting or running servers) priority access is not going to be enough of an incentive to get people to put money into a server. While it does sound nicer than a subscription fee, the number of "donors" on current servers is not all that high (Just speaking from experience playing on servers).

    EDIT: Oh, and I also don't feel like huge server developers, who spent months developing great new content, wanting to have enough money to keep running their server and developing new content are greedy

    Quote from GoldK

    It's harder to ripoff somebody when you are simply offering server access than by luring them through power. Having power means you can assert your dominance to free players while having server access don't have that kind of appeal. You have to charge fair if you want customers to actually like your server enough to pay and play.


    Most people have been talking about small children when discussing this particular topic. I could see server owners lying outright, saying their server provides several excellent experiences that it actually doesn't, claiming to have lots of players, and just generally lying about how much fun these children would have if they'd only pay some ridiculous server entry fee. We're talking about children who were gullible enough to pay hundreds of dollars for diamonds here. Even something as simple as something along the lines of

    "All/only the cool/mature/rich people play here!"

    Could persuade the same kind of small child who bought a diamond sword with their parents' money to buy entry to a server with their parents' money. Marketing is quite a versatile and effective force.

    Agree? Disagree?
    Posted in: Discussion
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    Jun 19, 2014
    _Keldt_ posted a message on EULA Revisited: an Updated Q&A From Mojang
    Quote from randisking

    I love how someone makes a statement like this without actually backing it up with facts and citations. [snipped part] and it is in fact a lot less restrictive than the EULA of many major AAA games that have been published.


    I love how you just made another statement like that without actually backing it up with facts and citations. "It is in fact" doesn't really count. Am I supposed to take your word for this now?

    But yes, I do see your point there, and I wondered about that myself, in fact. Yours is indeed a much much smaller case, anyway. :P I posted that, not really in total agreement with it, but just to see what people had to say about this person's comment.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    Jun 19, 2014
    _Keldt_ posted a message on EULA Revisited: an Updated Q&A From Mojang
    I'm just going to paste this comment I saw in the thread about the current snapshot.

    It kind of further confuses my stance on things, by bringing server software back into question.
    Other than that, though, I can say I agree with a few of the points in here, and I think it's a good argument anyways.
    You guys can feel free to pick it apart, agree with it, disagree with it, or ignore it as you see fit. I don't really have a response to it right now.

    Quote from catbox01

    Yeah! Finally a snapshot with an early look at the wonderful mod API! Nope, not even close. I'm always happy to see bugs squashed, of course, and I have to be honest and say that Mojang has done a pretty good job of squashing them. Too bad almost all the mods are stuck back on 1.7.2, huh?

    Anyone else feel like things are unraveling?

    Recently, a spokesman for Mojang released a statement about what server owners can and cannot do. Mojang (without apparently consulting a really good lawyer or even international law https://mojang.com/2...e-follow-up-qa/).
    I've read through it, and compared it to some of the laws of the countries involved. My opinion? It's unenforceable, possibly illegal, and certainly divisive. The Mojang spokesman noted that the adjustments to the EULA were an attempt to counter-act the greed of "Pay to Win" servers, charging real money for items of negligible in game value. This begs the obvious question: how does one "win" a sandbox game?

    The software which allows most multiplayer servers run, relies in turn on another program which, while capable of decompiling Mojang code, does not belong to Mojang, and has been recognized by Mojang as being the intellectual property of the authors. Truthfully, it could be adjusted and used to decompile and mod other games besides Minecraft; it does not require Minecraft to run. The same thing applies to API such as Bukit and Forge. But I hear you say 'doesn't Mojang have a right to enforce ownership of their game code? Shouldn't decompiling the code be against the EULA? The answer is yes, but it's a sore spot. You see, Mojang has supported a modding community, which is only possible because they have allowed the decompiling of their code. Why did they do this? Well, the game doesn't have an API, and so they had to tolerate the potential violation of their EULA so that a third party could provide that service. The decompiling has been allowed for years now. You can't have it both ways, and if you think about how that would look in court, you will realize how unenforceable the whole thing is. Remember how silly we all thought it was when Mojang was sued for using the word "Scrolls" in a game title? This is the same type of silly, only on Mojang's part, this time.

    I hate to say it, but when Notch moved on to other projects, Minecraft took a turn for the worse. The current crew has managed to 1) make numerous multi-year promises which they have not been able to fulfill 2) Split the community between those running vanilla games, and those running modded games 3) Fractured even the modded community by changing the structure of the game, which resulted in a huge number of modders leaving the game entirely 4) Implemented a UUID system which was not needed, should not have been done, and has created no end of trouble 5) Attempted to implement a new EULA which is not enforceable, unlawful in numerous jurisdictions, a violation of the intellectual property rights of numerous software architects, and is mostly a cover up for the fact that the UUID system is likely to really screw things up, and 6) has put most of their effort into highly profitable mobile devices and schemes, which are more limited, and less open to modification.

    Like it or not, the glory days are over. Sure, there are more people buying the game, but it's pretty clearly a slowing trend even now (at least, if the numbers reported on the Minecraft page are accurate). If things continue to fall apart at this rate, I think the PC/MAC community for this game will be lucky to survive another two years.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    Jun 19, 2014
    _Keldt_ posted a message on EULA Revisited: an Updated Q&A From Mojang
    I've slept on this twice now; my views on this topic have changed somewhat, based both on what I've read and what I've been thinking the past couple of days.

    Things I realize:

    -Mojang is within their rights to protect their IP (duh)
    -There are servers out there that charge ridiculous sums for ridiculous things (but see below for further thoughts)
    -The rules of the EULA didn't technically get worse, they got better
    ~That doesn't make them what I'd like them to be now, either
    -There are plugin developers who have spent months and months (no exaggeration there, either) developing completely unique content for their mingame servers. This content may or may not have any sort of relationship with Minecraft's core features
    ~Said content still requires Minecraft to run, in the end (what an unfortunate predicament that seems to be now)
    -We don't get the final say in what Mojang does with their EULA. Mojang does.

    Things I wish other people would realize:

    -Not every server is a Survival Multiplayer server
    -Not all Survival servers charge you for things like diamonds
    ~Those that do most certainly cannot have a dedicated following committed to them
    -The EULA isn't changing much. The "new EULA" is not what people should be blaming. Both the new and the old EULA disallowed microtransactions and other forms of moneymaking from servers
    -We DO NOT want the old EULA back. It was worse than this one. People need to quit asking for it to come back. When people say this, they really should be asking for Mojang to go back to not enforcing their EULA, or for them to go to a newer, better EULA
    -Big servers are not going to be unaffected by the "new" EULA. They will not offer the same kits and gameplay that they did in the past when everyone has access to it. Some of the balance in the "buy/unlock-able" kits was their rarity. When that's gone, either everyone will choose the best kit (and then there goes varied gameplay), or some kits will die to keep things balanced. Same will probably go for other "paid features"

    Bad arguments that are FOR the EULA:

    "People have already paid for the game, why would we want to pay again for certain features of the game?"
    or "Yay, no more 'Pay-to-win' servers! I hated those."

    Response: At least with most servers as they are now, you can get on them and play some portion of their content for free. Most minigame servers that are decent will only charge you for certain (balanced) kits. That means they're not charging you for any basic parts of the game, and you can at least have some fun playing on the server without spending any money. When people start using one of Mojang's legal alternatives, though, you'll have to pay before you're able to access any of the server's features. Mojang's solution to "Pay-to-win" servers is to make them "Pay-to-play-at-all" servers.

    "This will help solve all those complaints Mojang was getting for people charging ridiculous amounts of cash for things you should get for free."

    Response: Sure, this will probably fix that issue. The new issue I could see arising from the changes to the EULA is servers legally charging ridiculous amounts of cash for people to now get into their scam server, which they promise the small children will be the most epic server they've ever been on, if they'd only steal their parent's card and pay them $200 per month. The server is then unplayable because of the amount of ad-spam upon logging in. They're fixing one problem, and opening their doors wide for a different problem that's actually legal this time.

    "[This thing I've heard a couple of times about $1 subscription fees still working for servers that get millions of users monthly if 90% of the community "gets mad" and doesn't subscribe]"

    Response: You speak of a 90% decrease in the population of a huge community like it's nothing. These people may either go find another smaller server (populating it more, which may or may not be a good thing), or they may quit Minecraft altogether, seeing that most other servers now charge a subscription fee. What percent of Minecraft's overall fanbase will leave Minecraft altogether, do you think? On another note, these huge servers tend to get tons and tons of traffic where people are there to simply try out the server. "Millions of users" doesn't refer to the number of dedicated users, a number which will probably drop if these huge servers start charging subscription fees, no matter how cheap. People keep calling these servers "Pay-to-win," but if you actually had to pay to win, like you would if you had to pay a subscription fee, these servers wouldn't get nearly as much support as they do now.

    Bad arguments AGAINST the EULA:

    "This new EULA will change everything for the worst!"

    Response: This is a bit drastic. Like I said, this will fix some problems within the community, and create others. That's kind of how things work. Once again, it's not the "New EULA" that's to blame here, if we can even blame a EULA for our problems. Many people have said, and I tend to agree with them, that our main problem here stems from Mojang allowing people to break their EULA for so long in the first place. The "old" EULA was not any better than the "new" EULA. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd choose the "new" one. We can't blame the EULA changes for anything at all. The EULA has only gotten better. The only problem most servers now face is enforcement of the EULA.

    "Mojang doesn't have the manpower to enforce this."

    Response: You don't think, with millions of copies of their game sold, that Mojang has the means to acquire the manpower? Mojang has said many times that they do indeed have the power to enforce this, and that they most definitely plan on it.

    Final notes:

    People against the EULA:

    Please realize that this is not the end of the world, or of Minecraft. The community will go on, even if it shrinks substantially. Realize that the old EULA was not better and quit asking for it back. That has been my main source of irritation in the arguments against the EULA. Please know that this is not a war, and you don't need to lose your cool over words that small people type at their keyboard.

    People for the EULA:

    You've pulled me into a state of neutrality, here. Please do try to keep an open mind though (obviously I'm not speaking to all of you). Please realize that just because a legal document says something is illegal doesn't mean said thing is a totally horrible thing to be put to the torch. Please realize that the EULA does not affect only the "bad apples" and that not every server that has microtransactions is survival and will be charging players for a diamond sword. Please realize that if minigame servers had been ripping people off, they wouldn't have gotten as much support as they did.

    Keep up the good discussion, people, and do away with the bad, please. Please note that I'm not trying to condescend with any of my statements above. All I'm trying to do here is point out flaws in both sides of the arguments, in order to improve and refine things on both sides.

    Thanks for reading, to those who did. Have a nice day, all.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    Jun 18, 2014
    _Keldt_ posted a message on EULA Revisited: an Updated Q&A From Mojang
    Quote from Keybounce

    My advice to anyone that wants to challenge this EULA and deal with a lawsuit:

    Be better at first person shooters than Notch.


    This. This is great. I laughed.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    Jun 14, 2014
    _Keldt_ posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    It's funny to me how most of the posts on the main page of the forums get anywhere from 5-50 comments- higher if they're lucky.

    This one has over 800 and is still growing rapidly. It makes me happy to see that people do really care about this, and about the Minecraft community in general, enough to keep this debate going for 800 posts.

    Thank you all for not being a dead community. :)
    Posted in: Discussion
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    Jun 14, 2014
    _Keldt_ posted a message on Mojang Announcement: EULA, and Servers
    Oh, look, Mojang did something more controversial than adding bats instead of birds or fish, for once!
    Wow.

    Er, so let me just preface this by saying I know ~nothing about legal stuff like a lot of you are mentioning above. If I make a blunder not obvious to anyone who doesn't know the ins-and-outs of game EULAs and other legal stuff, or of hosting and running a massive server, please note that I am included in that group (I fully expect to get chewed out regardless, but whatever).

    So Mojang's making controversial changes to the EULA. They've been a pretty decent company for quite some time, slowly but surely making millions off of ~$27 per copy of Minecraft. I suppose we were due for something like this a while ago, eh? I'm not trying to sound too completely cynical here, but we do live in a world where EA exists. I think I'll present my opinions on things with a sort of story from the perspective of me, your regular MC user.

    I have no money of my own to speak of. I live with my parents. I'm a teenager (you get no exact age here). I have no job. The server (or server network, I should say) in question is the Shotbow Network. I've been playing on the Shotbow Network for I've no idea how long now (It's been a while). It's a server that I consider quite similar to many popular servers, and I'm sure quite a few people have heard of MineZ, which is a zombie survival game, based on DayZ, a mod for Arma II, and now a standalone game. The Shotbow Network is the original home of MineZ.

    Shotbow uses a currency of "experience." As one might expect, you can use experience to unlock kits, classes, and other helpful items, etc. that are useful in-game. You earn experience by winning or doing well in any of the server's many games. You can, of course, also buy experience from an online shop. I'd feel justified calling it a "Pay-to-win" server, except I've done quite a bit of winning on this server, and it hasn't seen a dime of my money. Shotbow also accepts donations, and recognizes donors by giving them a rank based on how much they donated, and giving them extra perks. Please note that when I say "extra," I mean something that most players are able to and absolutely okay with doing without. These are things that I've gone without for as long as I've been with the server, and I haven't been deterred by not having these things. I know that if and when I work up enough "earned" experience, I will be able to "buy" these things without having spent any real money at all, and that actually keeps me playing sometimes.

    In all my time with this server, I'm still constantly being amazed by what the server developers are able to do. These people are quite literally revolutionizing all that Minecraft is, and it has been an absolute joy to experience it all firsthand. These people have spent and would love to continue spending dozens upon dozens of hours pouring creativity and ingenuity into plugins that completely change most if not all of Minecraft's core gameplay mechanics. These guys are a few of the many, myself included, that like to think of Minecraft as more of a game engine than a game, to be expanded on and fleshed out by people with the will and ability to take Minecraft and bend it to new ideas, and take it in new directions. I have the utmost respect for the developers of the Shotbow Network.

    So there's a problem here. In fact, if I've understood all I've read correctly, there has been a problem concerning the legality of all of this for quite some time. My problem with the old EULA (as far as I understood the old EULA, that is) was the bit about "not making money off of what Mojang made." [Caution, opinions abound!] My response to this would be something like "Mojang, you've already made all the money you'd ever be able to make off of your own game by charging these developers $27 for your game. Every single one of the people that had fun on these peoples' server (hopefully) also paid you $27 each for your game, your assets, your files. All the people who donated to the developers' server were not donating because they liked your assets of your game. They already donated to you for that. They were paying because of the extras, the plugins that the developers spent months of their time developing. Yes, the plugins would be nothing without your game. True, they are technically making money off of your game, since they wouldn't be making money here if your game had never been created, but the donors already paid for your game. You already got their money, why do you need to be jealous when someone gets paid for hard work they put into your game that you didn't? Ugh."

    At the same time, I can understand such a rule, as a sort of "No, this is mine, you can't take it and profit from it D:" kind of thing, but when I think of all of the hours spent developing awesome games that Mojang would most certainly never develop themselves, I quickly dismiss this thought process. The absolute fact is that servers like the Shotbow Network CANNOT exist without paid help. At the moment of writing, the Network has 1,861 Minecraft players logged in, enjoying unique and creative content that the Shotbow developers developed. Understandably, Shotbow has 10,000 total available slots for especially busy days.

    The Shotbow Network has to pay to support 10,000 player slots, support running a ton of plugins for more than 10 unique minigames, and for the ability to keep each minigame lobby, and each minigame session, separate. Can you think of how much that would cost? I can't, since I know almost nothing about hosting servers. I don't have any clue how any of this is done, or even whether you have to pay for some of the things listed above, just to give a sort of disclaimer here in the middle of things. What I do know is that the Shotbow developers are now genuinely concerned about whether or not they'll be able to keep supporting the server with the new EULA rules.

    Mojang has decided to get a bit more specific with their EULA, and basically change the rules to this:
    "...if the stuff you sell affects gameplay, we’re not cool with it."
    Speaking in terms of the Shotbow Network, still, this means that all those Platinum donors who donated 100 dollars to Shotbow to fund future development and say thanks, will now get nothing in return, since it's illegal to "give [donors] preferential treatment for donating." This instantly knocks out buying kits as well, since those affect gameplay. To add to this "You cannot charge real-world cash for in-game currency." It's hilarious to me that Mojang has allowed "tickets" into servers- paid entry. This means that even a basic survival server that doesn't change Mojangs beloved and protected game files and assets in the slightest is perfectly allowed to charge players for entry, making money directly off of Mojang's game. I realize that the EULA has changed so the rule is more specific than "don't make money from our game" now, but I still find this odd.

    So, with Mojang's other suggestion of advertising in servers, this leaves Shotbow with just a few options. The Network can continue to abuse the EULA and host a great community of great games and many satisfied players. In this case, Mojang still profits from selling copies of their original game, and things continue happily as usual for Shtobow unless and until Mojang actually decides to enforce their EULA this time. Another option is to stop selling experience, and stop giving benefits to those who wish to contribute to development. Shotbow will surely die off with this option; there aren't all that many donors even now, with donor benefits. The compromise option is to keep experience as an incentive to keep playing on Shotbow (or get rid of the system and allow everyone access to everything. I don't know which option is better), and hope to pull in enough money through loyal donors and ad-spam, and/or hope enough people are willing to pay an entry fee to access a server they've been accessing for free for months already that the community doesn't shrink to a size much much smaller than it is now.

    I'm still not finished, though. The Shotbow Network can take a backseat now.

    I understand why Mojang is doing this. I get that there are literal Pay-to-win *survival* servers that charge unsuspecting kids for things they should and could get for free on other servers. This is indeed awful. If you asked me about it though, and you weren't the parent of a victim, I might mention that there's a bit of a lesson to be learned in allowing a small child to have unsupervised freedom in any sort of online interaction reality, even if Minecraft is supposed to be a kid-friendly game. [Once again, opinions a'plenty!] People need to understand that Mojang are not the people who run the servers out there, and if they were charged money because they somehow managed to let their kid have uncontrolled freedom on the internet *AND* access to their credit card info, they should take it up with their kid and their parenting style. Of course, this still doesn't excuse those who are actually doing the scamming, and I'd love to see all of them punished, but distributing equal "justice" among all servers, in my opinion, is most certainly NOT the answer.

    Another topic for discussion is (or has been, at least) how this all affects modders/mapmakers/resource pack developers. Since all that most of these kinds of "offline" developers ask for is a donation, all that I'd like to know now is whether these rules only apply to servers, or if they apply to these "offline" modifications as well.

    So I think I've come to the end of my opinions here. I'm just going to point out once more that I have no idea as to the specifics of things like how Shotbow handles their plugins (whether they use Bukkit, etc.), and how most game EULAs work. I also don't know how Mojang is handling such specifics as whether custom-coded plugins that use Bukkit count as "their property" or whatever. Most of this post is hastily-assembled, mostly-formed opinions based on what all I've had the chance to read so far on this topic. Note that the current time for me is 3:30 AM. Based on this, please excuse any blunderingly obvious grammatical errors or logical fallacies I may have missed or been ignorant to in the process of writing this.

    Thanks for reading.

    (I hate these, but this is a loong post, so here:)

    TL;DR/Summary of thoughts- EULA changes are complicated. Controversial EULA changes are agonizing. Controversial EULA changes that have the potential to dismember some popular, well-meaning, and precious communities are heartbreaking, especially when the changes are well-meaning themselves.
    Posted in: Discussion
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