I can understand that style of gameplay as well. I don't because building complex things is the reason I play the game, and I don't want to wait until the midgame to get to the point. Part of what's good about minecraft and BTW is supporting multiple styles of gameplay.
Cool, thanks. I'll mess with it and see if I can get it to my liking. Huh, you changed the damage the block does to the tool, rather than change the durability of the tool. That's a little roundabout, is there a particular reason?
Since the hardcore tool changes, I've actually preferentially laid out underground complexes with stone tools. "Dig in this direction until tool breaks twice" is a lot faster than counting blocks to make sure stuff is lined up. And then I make a replacement from the stuff I just mined out, so I don't have to make separate resource runs for new tools. The base-building part of the game is the part I like most, so the less metal I use the less time I have to spend caving or mining, even when I'm firmly in the midgame. In this way stone tools aren't something I moved past on my way to metal tools, but a tool for a specific job even after I have metal tools.
It may not have been intentional, but then again, neither were mob traps.
I have to strongly disagree. BTW is full of "accounting for precise values." By way of example, the 6 stone you get from a single stone pickaxe allows you to craft a pickaxe, an ax, and a shovel, the full tool set. In my conversations with FC it's been apparent that these little details are intentional, and tweaking those values is a big part of the polish that set BTW apart from the typical slapdash mod.
7, in particular, is viscerally unsatisfying. You don't design spaces in multiples of 7 blocks. It doesn't lend itself to mining, or clearing rooms, or spacing underground farms. No one measures distances in multiples of 7 for any project. Since it's a prime number, it doesn't lend itself to any unit of measure but itself. This isn't just some numerological tic. Being able to count distances underground in "picks worn out" makes spacing large underground complexes so all the halls line up a LOT easier. Being able to quickly go "I'm creating room of this size, I divide by 6 and know how many picks I'll need" means you can craft all those picks ahead of time", and people can divide by 2, 3, 6, and 12 a lot better in their heads than 7. If 12 is too much for ore mining purposes, fine, but make it 9, or 8, or leave it at 6. Anything but a prime number, man!
I actually found your mod because I was trying to figure out how to adjust the durability of the early game tools myself. If I can't convince you why 7 is a terrible number to use, perhaps you could at least tell me how to change it myself? It may seem strange, but it makes a huge difference to my game flow when playing.
Excellent, that worked. I'm testplaying right now. So far I like the changes to early game.
::EDIT::
My I suggest upping the number of blocks the stone pickaxe can break from 7 to 9? or perhaps even 12?
My reasoning: The number of blocks the pickaxe can break leads to a sort of "default room size." Most people make 2 block tall corridors, and there are a lot of reasons to make a 3x3 room. A staircase down requires at least 3 blocks for the headroom. A 9x9x3 room is the perfect size for an underground farm. Basically, early game underground construction works best in multiples of 2 or 3. The pick breaking 7 blocks doesn't fit that. It makes it more difficult to estimate how many you need to clear out a sizeable space. I think 12 is a perfect number for this as it divides by 2, 3, and 4, meaning that a single pick can predictably clear spaces made of multiples of those numbers.
The problem with an "ultimate of Ultimates" armor is that it's a win condition. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to get there, all that matters is that getting there makes the rest of the game trivially easy. When that happens, you've won.
Sandbox games like Minecraft aren't meant to be won. They're meant to be PLAYED. So adding anything like a "you've won" to the game is antithetical to it's nature.
(Yes, this argument can be used against features in vanilla. the enderdragon can suck it's own egg.)
I just wanted to say that with all the new early game stuff, something magical (from my perspective as an architect) has happened. Space is now expensive.
Let me explain: The last time I played minecraft, I could just grab a few picks, mine out a huge space underground, and then take the cobble topside and build a giant castle or whatever struck my fancy. Making space to use was super-simple. I usually forced myself to make small builds as a challenge, but really there was no reason not to just take up as much space as possible.
Now, monumental construction is actually a monumental undertaking. And using space efficiently is much more important now because even cobblestone is a precious, hordeable resource.
Because constraints lead to better design, I'm very happy that "make it huge" is no longer the default answer to any minecraft build.
Jane McGonigal (big ARG designer) defines a game as a "voluntarily restricting your actions for fun." as an aspiring game designer myself, that definition has always stuck with me. Without limits, it isn't a game.
For oil transport, I'd simply like a tanker minecart.
If you are familiar with Kaos's Deco Add-on for BTW, it would be nice if his hemp oil was burnable as a fuel.
But the big thing is this: I feel there's too big a conceptual jump between the age of steel and the age of circuitry. Jumping strait from the steam power to frikken laser beams just bugs me. This is the gap that needs to be filled: what intermediate step would there be between a lens and a laser, and how could that be used?
An icepick is a real specific tool, and I don't spend enough time in ice biomes to know if it would be worth it. I don't think I'd make one unless it harvested the ice intact, but that's game breaking for nether reasons. Hmmm, what if it harvested ice as snow blocks, then placed said snow?
But as I said, I'd at least make any tool that came to mind, and play with it a bit. You can decide if you want to keep it in the code or not before you release new versions. I didn't think the machete was going to be particularly useful, and I was so very, very wrong.
And again. Maybe it's not such a good idea to enchant these things.
On the positive side, it's worth noting that I'm primarily carrying the machete when caving. Because placing vines for ladders makes a lot of spelunkery easier.
0
I can understand that style of gameplay as well. I don't because building complex things is the reason I play the game, and I don't want to wait until the midgame to get to the point. Part of what's good about minecraft and BTW is supporting multiple styles of gameplay.
0
Cool, thanks. I'll mess with it and see if I can get it to my liking. Huh, you changed the damage the block does to the tool, rather than change the durability of the tool. That's a little roundabout, is there a particular reason?
Since the hardcore tool changes, I've actually preferentially laid out underground complexes with stone tools. "Dig in this direction until tool breaks twice" is a lot faster than counting blocks to make sure stuff is lined up. And then I make a replacement from the stuff I just mined out, so I don't have to make separate resource runs for new tools. The base-building part of the game is the part I like most, so the less metal I use the less time I have to spend caving or mining, even when I'm firmly in the midgame. In this way stone tools aren't something I moved past on my way to metal tools, but a tool for a specific job even after I have metal tools.
It may not have been intentional, but then again, neither were mob traps.
0
I have to strongly disagree. BTW is full of "accounting for precise values." By way of example, the 6 stone you get from a single stone pickaxe allows you to craft a pickaxe, an ax, and a shovel, the full tool set. In my conversations with FC it's been apparent that these little details are intentional, and tweaking those values is a big part of the polish that set BTW apart from the typical slapdash mod.
7, in particular, is viscerally unsatisfying. You don't design spaces in multiples of 7 blocks. It doesn't lend itself to mining, or clearing rooms, or spacing underground farms. No one measures distances in multiples of 7 for any project. Since it's a prime number, it doesn't lend itself to any unit of measure but itself. This isn't just some numerological tic. Being able to count distances underground in "picks worn out" makes spacing large underground complexes so all the halls line up a LOT easier. Being able to quickly go "I'm creating room of this size, I divide by 6 and know how many picks I'll need" means you can craft all those picks ahead of time", and people can divide by 2, 3, 6, and 12 a lot better in their heads than 7. If 12 is too much for ore mining purposes, fine, but make it 9, or 8, or leave it at 6. Anything but a prime number, man!
I actually found your mod because I was trying to figure out how to adjust the durability of the early game tools myself. If I can't convince you why 7 is a terrible number to use, perhaps you could at least tell me how to change it myself? It may seem strange, but it makes a huge difference to my game flow when playing.
0
Excellent, that worked. I'm testplaying right now. So far I like the changes to early game.
::EDIT::
My I suggest upping the number of blocks the stone pickaxe can break from 7 to 9? or perhaps even 12?
My reasoning: The number of blocks the pickaxe can break leads to a sort of "default room size." Most people make 2 block tall corridors, and there are a lot of reasons to make a 3x3 room. A staircase down requires at least 3 blocks for the headroom. A 9x9x3 room is the perfect size for an underground farm. Basically, early game underground construction works best in multiples of 2 or 3. The pick breaking 7 blocks doesn't fit that. It makes it more difficult to estimate how many you need to clear out a sizeable space. I think 12 is a perfect number for this as it divides by 2, 3, and 4, meaning that a single pick can predictably clear spaces made of multiples of those numbers.
0
Greetings.
I'm trying to run the patcher, but It's throwing me an error.
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException
at java.io.StringWriter.write(StringWriter.java:65)
at BTWTweaker.stream2String(BTWTweaker.java:65)
at CliPatcher.main(CliPatcher.java:63)
I'm running Ubuntu 13.04, using OpenJDK 7.
Do you know what might be causing the error?
0
The problem with an "ultimate of Ultimates" armor is that it's a win condition. It doesn't matter how long it takes you to get there, all that matters is that getting there makes the rest of the game trivially easy. When that happens, you've won.
Sandbox games like Minecraft aren't meant to be won. They're meant to be PLAYED. So adding anything like a "you've won" to the game is antithetical to it's nature.
(Yes, this argument can be used against features in vanilla. the enderdragon can suck it's own egg.)
0
Let it be known that I wanted to say kudos for making space expensive SO MUCH that I braved the minecraft forum thread to do it.
0
Let me explain: The last time I played minecraft, I could just grab a few picks, mine out a huge space underground, and then take the cobble topside and build a giant castle or whatever struck my fancy. Making space to use was super-simple. I usually forced myself to make small builds as a challenge, but really there was no reason not to just take up as much space as possible.
Now, monumental construction is actually a monumental undertaking. And using space efficiently is much more important now because even cobblestone is a precious, hordeable resource.
Because constraints lead to better design, I'm very happy that "make it huge" is no longer the default answer to any minecraft build.
0
0
If you are familiar with Kaos's Deco Add-on for BTW, it would be nice if his hemp oil was burnable as a fuel.
But the big thing is this: I feel there's too big a conceptual jump between the age of steel and the age of circuitry. Jumping strait from the steam power to frikken laser beams just bugs me. This is the gap that needs to be filled: what intermediate step would there be between a lens and a laser, and how could that be used?
0
Start-over syndrome is where you constantly start new worlds and abandon older ones.
0
Oh, I totally misread the post.
An icepick is a real specific tool, and I don't spend enough time in ice biomes to know if it would be worth it. I don't think I'd make one unless it harvested the ice intact, but that's game breaking for nether reasons. Hmmm, what if it harvested ice as snow blocks, then placed said snow?
But as I said, I'd at least make any tool that came to mind, and play with it a bit. You can decide if you want to keep it in the code or not before you release new versions. I didn't think the machete was going to be particularly useful, and I was so very, very wrong.
0
0
On the positive side, it's worth noting that I'm primarily carrying the machete when caving. Because placing vines for ladders makes a lot of spelunkery easier.
0
And got silk touch. Notch Damn it.