Quote from Marcus101RR
Wrong, Minecraft remains the same, minecraft server remains the same. Bukkit runs along side of minecraft. It doesn't not modify anything internally. Again, EULA is nothing, I have read EULA on alot of games, but half of them are just for legal purposes. Normally no one goes around and breaks the serious rules: Selling Minecraft as a non-retailer.
Which is my point here. We are given the right to run a servers, we run them, how we want to run them. Mojang has no "Control" over them. If they want control, then they should take it. We are coders, so are they. Add a security check, add a login system. Minecraft client requires you to login to play, so why not start making the server too? They can then keep control of their players and the servers. If not, these rules are...void.
Again, SPOT ON.
We are working on our hard worked servers, using plugins, mods, features, and uniqueness. He is right, there are over 100k servers other there...so the server you joined requires a bit of moo-la to do what you can do in single player? JOIN ANOTHER SERVER.
I'm sure 1 server out of 100k will have the right needs for a player, if not, make a new one yourself, then we have 100,001 servers.
I see no flaw in this system, just lazyness. This only encourages lazyness, not development.
Ehh... I'd argue not entirely laziness. The key issue with servers, is FINDING the good servers. There's so many damn servers out there, it's hard to get the good servers noticed and off the ground. It's far from cheap in time or finances to get a server up and into a successful field, even as a decent, fair, unique server simply due to the start up logistics and the burn out you experience attempting to do so. Though, i have no real idea how to offer a way to get around this in a simple way.
But again, it's really down to the players. Don't pay for the bad, the bad goes away. Really simple 101 of economics.
).
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Appreciate the confirmation of Cauldron! I very well may take up your offer of tips, once i dig in properly.
I heard about the mushroom island spawning, though, those islands if I recall have a really derpy code around them spawning in Oceans, that are different to 'normal' land spawning (if I am remembering, the world gens as all ocean, then X % must be land, it picks a spot and slaps a continent in). Mushroom islands it last I saw, checks after continents, and generates it not as a 'blob' continent, but a specific island mass. Not 110% sure that would be the issue (and not much I can suggest to fix it), but yes.
Not spawning as much as you'd like, is PROBABLY the configs. I've skimmed them, and christ - they amount of cross over and redundancy of stuff (like weighs per biome, despawn times/distance, etc) make this a technical nightmare to test. But I'm going to assume the issue is likely the distance of mob despawn (as it's keeping mobs 120+ blocks away loaded, and it doesn't despawn for X time, which if I recall 600 ticks=60 seconds). More so you'd want to try and make despawn be quick, and instant despawn be short ranged, like 50 blocks (about what a player will see immediately). this forces more spawns, closer to the player generally, or should in theory.
But yes! two questions I had remain to be answered, if anyone can help?
#1 How to define configs on a per-world basis?
#2 if there is ways to alter mobs variables (damage, health, etc) and create 'alternate spawns' (zombie 1, zombie 2, etc with unique health, damage, all that) and if not, a mod that plays nicely with JAS that can do that.
Appreciate the info! Hope I can help others once I sink into this thing.
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A quick few questions (and yes, I have skimmed the Wiki for info, but have not 'done my homework' as I wish to know these below questions, before I commit hours of work!)
1. It is seemingly possible to define settings on a per-world basis, yet I see no structure how to define it as such (with folders called 'Basic and DEFAULT, nothing related to worlds is generated even after adding new ones to the server). Any advice here?
2. I presume it is NOT plausible to edit spawning of mobs (Example their damage, health, effects, speeds, all that - creating variations of mob spawns that would act as individual mob spawns - i.e. zombie 1, Zombie 2, Zombie, 3 - each with their own defined spawning behaviors, damage, health, etc)? If not, can you guys suggest one that will cooperate with JAS?
3. Will this play nicely with Cauldron (Fusion of bukkit and Forge in essence), some mods/plugins work just fine - some just... don't work for mysterious reasons, if anyone has experience with this that would be handy so I don't bash my head off a bug that is in fact, Cauldron not playing nicely! (Not that I've done that, spending a week on it - nope...)
I appreciate any help and information. I understand I will need to read the wiki and all that (I have no issues doing that), but just wish to make sure this can do what I hope it can, before I commit.
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The Thread will be closed upon final release of the new server. This is 200 pages of failures. I don't have time for it.
Now, on more positive topic - Myself and Failboat are back on the project now that life has stabilized. We have a quite massive income between the two of us, meaning the server cost (until we get really big) won't be an issue anymore.
There's no grand promises. We're two people at this moment doing this. Our plan is simple. build Spawn (Mind you, this thing is gonna blow your socks off at how crazy big AND cool it is, and we know we can do it, as we've done similar scale spawns in the past). Create a few basic towns in the 'tranquil realm' (which is a mobless, safe world that players generally cannot alter, dig in, etc - meant as a structured, controlled realm of various towns and factions). Finally, I will be hand-crafting the other Realm, called the 'Wastelands' - a brutal, twisted realm where you will find a savage, unforgiving wilderness where no town may take root, and the most savage beasts imaginable will hunt you day and night, through light and darkness...
After that? We spend a day or two checking balance of all the systems int he world playing as a normal, newly spawned player would - adjust it. then, public beta release. We relaunch under the new name and brand for the server, and build up from scratch. No promises of grand dungeons and such, we are taking this sensibly. Step by step - no more '2 month build up behind the scenes'. We'll build up as our community in turn grows, with them alongside us.
I will post the new thread, and proper details to the new server when we are there (under a week). The Epoch comes...
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We've further changed the concept of the server, to something more... distinct. Our issues with pvp and those who hate pvp, those who want to build vs those who want dangers and horrors knocking their door down, and the fallacy of multiple worlds to achieve this... I've found a solution to it.
Spawn, is a tranquil, enchanting place of magical, peaceful, and beautiful biomes spanning 3000 x 3000 blocks wide from 0,0 where the central point of the spawn CITY (this is not a 'little hub' - we're building a literal city, why this is so intensive >.<). There are NO monster spawns at all in this area, it is entirely peaceful and the wilderness around spawn is scattered with prime spots for villages to be settled.
A key point to this 'safe zone', is towns are NOT player run, instead players will be able to purchase plots of various sizes, and do as they please with that land - but only that land. The villages will have a general theme (roads, the central building we'll call Town Hall, etc) all prebuilt - with empty plots varied about it to each village, trying to make each distinct and unique in appearance and layout. We intend to seed 3 of these villages, and after that - hope by that point, we can find talented, inspired 'leaders' to get construct new villages (they won't own them, but design them for theme) to allow players to have direct focus for expansion of towns.
Similarly, the wilderness CANNOT be randomly destroyed or dug up, only in plots that are owned. There will be pre-designated, regenerating simple quarries for various minerals, similar for trees, farming patches, and such often tied to the village itself and for its members only (aka so others can't run over and empty your village-wide-farm for example), allowing a simple villager like life of farming, building, and growing. Merchants will exist in the area, and sell/buy said basic materials you can acquire/grow/etc to allow for an economy for these 'safe players'.
Now, for those who are like 'screw that! I wanna build how I want!' - you can. There's a heavy lore to the world (we are planning to even integrate a very simple 'quest' when you first login, to show this), and there is in fact, another world known only as 'The Wastelands'. A world of desolation, death, and decay. Practically nothing green exists on this realm, monsters and denizens of darkness roam in massive packs, and are fierce foes even to the most skilled and well armed adventures... why go there?
Towns will be free to be started anywhere on this world (if not claimed, or occupied by a server project - such as dungeons we have designed, which will be visually obvious :P). Towns will be bound to some basic rules in size, and have hefty costs to expand and claim, but will offer absolute control... but will not stop the endless hordes of beasties hungry for you bashing on your walls...
Monsters will be nasty and spawn in MUCH larger amounts than vanilla - but have VASTLY improved drop tables, including the capability to destroy torches, dig through structures, build over pits, and even climb up cliffs to pursue you. We are even adding sub-variations of each mob (Please note - we have very advanced plans to revamp all PVE related systems in a future overhaul, this world is a placeholder for that very system). Sub-variants will come with differing speeds, sizes, health, even chances to perform special abilities such as the 'grappler zombies' who will be very quick, but fragile and weak in damage... but can slow your speed to 25% of normal when it strikes you, allowing the other members of its 'horde' to corner you, forcing you to be very weary of these little blighters, amongst various other new challenging additions. Please note, we are going to keep it fun and fair, you won't see a grappler every 10 seconds, they're meant to be a surprise to kind of force you to change to the situation, rather than be a constant threat.
Discounting the other things like Dungeons, rare events, Traders etc. There are exclusive materials of all walks that will be found here, ranging from the most powerful ores (including more abundant veins of the common types), to extremely valuable trees, rare seeds, and dozens of unique items only claimable in this realm.
For those who seek a peaceful life of humble days and creativity, they'll find the Spawn Realm will embrace them openly.
For those who crave riches, danger, and most of all - their own demise, the Wastelands will welcome you... welcome you to your grave. Or perhaps you'll discover the hidden lore of the story that has only begun to unfold...?
~*~
Sorry for the drop off, life went to absolute hell on me involving a violent split up of family (disowning my sibling and another family member entirely), and all sorts of fun!
To clarify, I had intended to swear off this project in no small part due to Bukkit (which was part of forges utility, and which we were building the 'big project' on, with that dead, the programmers said f it and gave up on minecraft entirely and have since stopped modding entirely due to this), and Microsoft who I am still certain will pull some stunt to ruin and/or hamper minecraft.
But yes! I have been getting asked by various folk to continue the server without the 'big project' behind it, and just focus on making a great server instead. I am weary of this. We constantly lose said 'server' because I cannot keep my focus/devotion to a level needed to run it. A major part of this, is fatigue. I have to do everything, literally. Every bug, every player issue, every bit of balance, the finances, everything is all on me and it really is absolutely no fun for me, so I inevitably get too frustrated to bother continuing.
I need to find someone who can be a partner to me, to help share this burden in a sense. Someone who I know is reliable like i am, and can fix an issue if I'm not there, who can help me work on a config file and not turn the server into a world corrupted hell that means we have to purge it all and restart, thus enraging the users. The problem is not finding someone with the skills to do this - but the dedication to do it, and the ability to stick to it.
I will be locking this thread soon after this, and starting a new project - as I see WoH as the failed project that was destroyed. I do not see it as a failure, as I gained a lot of knowledge and practice leading and designing matters (none of which you've seen, but believe me, the team behind the scenes was serious to a scary level, the passion of the project was real - just lacking certain key elements). I will edit in a link to the new server post when I make it, and we will be beginning without absurd hopes and dreams of something that COULD be, and instead work on what WILL be.
I am already 80% done building us onto 1.7.10 (the last real, safe multiplayer mod version for a good while by looks till Sponge is really rolling along), configuring, play testing, and hammering it out now. I'm not promising anything further - but I am serious about this endeavor, and will be seeking out an individual who has a similar passion as I do to not see only a good server, but an amazing one be born and with it, a similarly amazing community. (Believe me, I know that's easily said, not easily done). The fun is finding that one! If you guys know someone, gimme a pm and we'll take a look. For now, I'm focusing on getting the server itself stable, polished, and ready before I bother to make a new post and get hopes up again.
Oh. And the project I promised is not quite dead. :)... I have .... invested 2500$ USD into seeing a major part of it being continued, and finished. I give no more information until I have it ready to show, but it should make our server... incredibly unique to say the least.
TL;DR
Rebirthing WOH into a new name as a normal Server (somewhat), will update this post with information and a link when/if I get to that point. I need another person or two who is relentless, able to learn, and stubborn as a mule like me to help as an admin for said new server.
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We're going to hit two goals today.
#1 update all the plugins, backend, etc, up to date (for 1.6.4 - 1.7 is too buggy/feature deprived in a lot of mods) - clear that up to make sure we're up to date (and hopefully fixes this horrible bug with buckets that won't let you pick anything up, but drop infinite liquids - sigh).
#2 polish up the spawn a bit. We've been constantly trying to figure out what to do with it, and are going to just 'pretty it up' and leave the empty areas for later when we have need for them. Instead, all the shops, etc, will be placed into a new town we will be hand-crafting over the next week or so which will be the 'hub' for the games shops and major server-side features (like the 'arena' or such server structures). I have no intention of 'finishing' the town before the beta, I only want some basic form done so we can slap in shops for testing and such.
after we get the town functioning, finish bug testing a bit, we're going to let in the first wave of minions to play, and help shape the future of the realm.
Edit: Or not.
it seems a Mojang made a jerk move with a developer of Bukkit, and now that developer is having a hissy fit, and launching DCMA orders (or whatever wording to use) on anything that uses bukkit, meaning cauldron, Forge, and anything like that is now dead in the water with no way to download even older versions. I can't update us to fix two CRITICAL bugs - so I can't launch. Good job! Nice tantruming and ruining tens of thousands of peoples fun instead being an adult about an adult topic.
*sigh* so again, we're dead in the water waiting for developers to stop their tantrum and let me update the damn server... :/
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Instead of waiting for likely eternity to get things rolling, I've talked to the other few staff/tester crew (who are now back, yay) and decided it's time to finish up our current projects, touch up any faults, finish the economy (shop balancing and such - a LOT of work... ugh... probably gonna release this in pieces). Then, officially release it to the public in a BETA state. Beta meaning things are being developed, changed, and tweaked still - but we should not lose the world ever, and things over-all should be stable, but bugs can and might occur. if they do, you have no right to tantrum.
I'll be adding a new, updated thread to the main post when we go into open beta as well. Me and Failboat (he never posts on here, that little weasel making me do all the work!) will be attacking the project tomorrow and across the weekend, intent on cleaning things up, and getting this beast rollin'!
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A) A swarm of bad luck demons infesting my soul, causing sporadic, uncontrollable bad events to occur non-stop for weeks on end (today alone my net has broken, my boiler has broken and risks a natural gas leak/explosion, amongst various other FUN).
So in summary: Blame Satan, Blame Summer. Oh, and blame the lack of people on the staff able to build more than a cobble-cube >.>
We're not abandoning it - more so the summer screwing up the plan...
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Only key feature that could distinguish a video would be amazing buildings, which we lack (damn java 8 destroying our old world! argh!) beyond Spawn at this moment, as all the work is being focused on adding, balancing, and fixing mods/plugins to ensure a proper game experience.
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Soon (tm).
Or you could, you know, read up 1 post and see the answer at the bottom of the post... >.>
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Were on you on the server prior? I don't believe so. Though, I'm terrible at names and too lazy to check 200 pages to confirm if you were...
Not that it matters any.
So you praise yourself to be a 'writing specialist' hmmm? *taps chin while pacing around you examining you* we shall see, padawan... we shall see... more seriously, what do you mean by 'writing'? Writing can mean 'making stuff sound great and flow beautifully' - story writing - concept design writing, punctuation... you know. Very vague.
Depending on your answer, you may be a god send. All depending on that answer you give...
ANYWHO! Update for everyone!
~ I got shops working! Yay! They are advanced, but easy as cake to use. We can do SO much with them.
~ World generation is ALMOST perfect. One final regen before public release to fix up a few oddities, tweak some ores, but over-all the size of biomes, frequency of oceans, types of biomes (we cut out a bunch of boring ones), and all that is JUST about perfect.
~ Spawn is almost done. We decided to go back onto a 'simple but grandees' design. I'll post some screenshots when we finish.
~ Over-all testing is going on, the testers (surprisingly) are doing good work, and things are progressing!... or I'd like to say that.
Hit day of the bugs today. Had massive progress yesterday, but today, I hit 3 MAJOR bugs. Breaking ALL buckets (and there is no cause - it's literally an issue with java itself, or satan himself has taken over the server - I prefer the second option). Recipe removal that's so easy and simple, is broken, and has even somehow broken previous working functions of it without reason, and yes. Just... one step forward, ten back.
We are progressing, but the server is NOT going to give in without a bloody fight. *cracks neck* just how I like it. I like it when they screw and claw... ;D
over-all assuming no more major bugs, ETA for limited public release is about 1-2 weeks! (preferably less, but yes...).
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The reason it has taken so long, mostly, is I didn't feel what I accomplished in prior versions of the server, was at all 'good'. They felt amateurish and sloppy. Main issue there, we had to rush due to finance reasons (it isn't cheap running these damn servers!) and my general inexperience with the modding scene.
As well, since then, Forge and similar major overhauls have appeared and allowed mods to be utilized on SMP - which EXPLODED what I can do, and allow me to really try to dig in and achieve something awesome for the server. Not to say the server is 'unminecrafty' - I've kept the soul intact, but have focused on improvement, expansion, and addition. The only system without a serious group of mods improving it, is combat. Why no combat? Namely, because I have a few... monkeys in the behind the scenes actually working on a complete and total overhaul of combat in minecraft, and I very much plan to use WoH as the official first server it's launched on and tested before being released to the public. Mind you, this is a GIANT mod. We have had to rewrite basically every damn thing in minecraft so far. World generation, the sky code, mob ai functions, mob movement pathing, all weapons, all items, all armor codes, add in new class code, skills, action bar improvements (keeping in mind builders and all that of course). It's... a beast.
BUT YES! We are alive, we've had my work wiped out twice now (seriously, anyone wanna donate to the 'get Sabby and exorcism' funds? I must be cursed ._.;), lost 8 weeks+ of building work, but damn if I let that stop me. We are in closed testing as I speak. I'm not rushing anything this time. It releases when it's ready, not a second before. Simple.
If only we didn't lose all the awesome stuff we built, ugh. We had giant mushroom seas, ancient keeps, sunken pyramids (even had a creepy music system playing in the area, custom added by us :P), and so much more all done... *sigh* Ah well.
If you knew me properly enough, you know that I am probably the most stubborn person you'll ever meet. I don't lose. I don't fail. I don't give up. I'll get up and come back screaming like a lunatic, get beat down, get up, and repeat this until I win, or I die.
By the way, if any of you are decent at building, please do gimme a pm showing it. I'd love to get 1-2 people to help us prior to the release to 'populate the world' with various places of interest.
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You should know quite well, how stubborn I am.
Also, YOU'RE STILL AROUND?! geez, talk about stalker much...
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As a quick update to the 1-2 people who still watch the thread (and anyone brave enough to piece together wtf has been going on with the server via the thread), I'll clarify what's happening.
we lost our new server (was almost done too, we had 6 WEEKS of content built into it, DAMN IT!) due to a Java 8 update breaking the install, and in turn, corrupting our world. The back up I did had the same issue with java 8, and I couldn't salvage anything due to ID's of blocks shifting, and the use of microblocks (which world edit, or such editors refuse to copy properly).
I then attempted to say to hell with 1.6.4, and updating to 1.7.2. Spend a good week bashing my head off that, finding many mods cut out major features/functions, added nothing of value, and had massive, glaring bugs for 1.7.2 even months later after it released. Spent another many days trying to fix them, and finally realized - why? What does 1.7.2 give us, that 1.6.4 doesn't besides some generic, crappy biomes we've already replaced by mods anyways?
with that, I pulled a bit of genius out of my behind, and realized I had kept a back up of the back up for the mods, etc, which saved the configuration files for me. Downloading and popping in the mods is easy, adjusting the configs to be balanced in game is 80% of the work!
With that, I got 1.6.4 up to date on every system, reset all the old systems, did some polish and improvements on mods/plugins, including a MUCH superior shop system I discovered (I love this bloody shop mans. It can do so much x.x...). Fixed the currency system, adjusted mob rates to be 'OH GOD NOOOOO' levels of FUN (about 300-500 mobs PER player generate, sounds absurd - but i tested it extensively as a player and it's dangerous - but exciting).
we then decided we need to rebuild the lost structures. we spent about 8 weeks total on this, so we are all crying - hard. We rebuilt a simpler spawn (god I wish I took pictures of the finished spawn of old! Argh!), and have begun hammering out various structures, plot points, and things across the world to populate it. From Sunken Villages, to abandoned Keeps, to Banana Boats - many of these places will host merchants that sell unique inventories. We've also marked a dozen plus places of... intrigue, we plan to do 'Dungeons' in the future when we have more than 2 people as the build team (Dungeons as we are designing them, are... gigantic, complex, and take a LOT of effort to do. Our one before the crash was over 2 MILLION blocks from top to edges...).
And today, we are finishing Spawn, the 'spawn teleporters' which are 4 spots on spawn that send you out to 2kx2k (in all 4 directions), allowing a medium to get around the map (the world border is 4kx4k, so these place you in the middle of the map), and are finishing up 'camper Shacks'. Camper Shacks are basically pre-built little shacks we're dotting across the world every now-and-then which will have very basic crafting, storage, a bed, light, and protection from the hellish horrors of the night. Most even offer a prebuilt, small irrigated area to toss some wheat seed down to grow if you intend to be there for more than a night. These are unbreakable, and unclaimable by towns, simply designed as a temporary place while exploring or traveling. A nice little touch.
We are beginning 'limited testing' from players in the next 2-3 days. Namely to 'feel how it is to be a player'. See if there's any bugs we left, but mostly about how hunger works, farming works, how fast/slow things feel, how mobs feel at their rates, the general 'feel' of the game we can't do properly as admins. Assuming this works out well enough, we HOPE to release by next Sunday (July 12th) for a PUBLIC beta release (I use Beta loosely, there should be NO world corruption, no world wipes, no loses at all - but things can happen if a serious issue is found by players that our testing didn't, etc).
I am writing the new thread as I post this. It's been far, FAR too long since the war has been promised, and never delivered. that shall change, very soon. For the drums of War are beating (giggity), and the end of all you knew about Hante is soon to approach...
or something.
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Ehh... I'd argue not entirely laziness. The key issue with servers, is FINDING the good servers. There's so many damn servers out there, it's hard to get the good servers noticed and off the ground. It's far from cheap in time or finances to get a server up and into a successful field, even as a decent, fair, unique server simply due to the start up logistics and the burn out you experience attempting to do so. Though, i have no real idea how to offer a way to get around this in a simple way.
But again, it's really down to the players. Don't pay for the bad, the bad goes away. Really simple 101 of economics.
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#1 you paid more so to 'use' the game client and the content it provides.
#2 Server is free to use, but under a license by Mojang (they still 'own it' and all rights) - key here, I am not using the vanilla server at all, and use mcpc+ and am actually actively developing something entirely custom to my server that is rewriting all key systems of minecraft (can't say too much about this atm, but not to avoid rules
#3 It's not free, unless run off your computer. And then, your internet is not free nor is bandwidth, the hardware, etc, all paid for by you.
#4 That's the key point. If you disagree with 'pay to win' - DON'T PAY! But if you go to a server that is entirely fair, well run, creatively done, and you go HUR, I DUN HAVE TO PAY! SCREW YOU GUYS! - is that any better then those over charging? The reality is, servers need money to run. Donations are a necessary evil. If you disagree, tell me why? (not aimed at you specifically, just in general)
I do agree with them going after the exploitive jerk offs (excuse the language) who are ruining it with exploitive payment systems. But I do NOT agree with them attacking fairly run servers in the process.
I am not going to respond to the provokative, ravenous individuals who are trying to play the HUR, IT'S ILLEGAL, YOU GONNA BE ILLEGAL BRAH? responses. Be constructive in your opinions, not 'Mojang says, SO OBEY!'. Really nothing to discuss there.