Minecraft Forums

Quote from Kurosu

Needs more strength I want to start crying when I look at an Endermen, I want to **** my iron armor and pray I have a bucket of water. I want them to be the hardest mob in the game, Spider Jockey's need to be toppled from their spot on the top.

Totally agree with stats buffs, and what if they pick up skeletons and put them on top of spiders? :smile.gif:

I'd personally love them if they were able to steal your main-hand item when near you (even when unprovoked) and you have to kill them in order to get it back! (and they would be hard to kill ofcourse)

Quote from TehWench

Not even read the thread have you?

So if I get it right, your arguments are:

1) They add challenge
2) Go play creative

And that's about it.

1) The challenge you talk about is subjective. I personally call that annoyance. What challenge exactly do you see in their block picking ability? Do they use it to kill you? No. do they use it to destroy your buildings specificly? No. Do they build actual things? No. Do they grief anything without any reason? Yes.

2) Really? Because people have a problem with one misconcieved feature (That even Notch called "an horrible idea", and who could make better statement if not the creator of this idea) they should give up about 80% of the gameplay?

Did you ever come to think alot of people like survival because you have to earn your ressources in order to build your stuff? This feeling does not exist in creative. And yes, some people build actual stuff in survival fyi.

Or maybe, you say that because you think people find survival too hard with these block-moving-endermen? And you're such a man that it's a piece of cake for you? And why exactly would it be hard? You seem to think it's easy to replace one block. And I agree it's easy, and I add it's downright stupid to have to replace blocks and fixing floating trees.

Now compare your arguments this non-exhaustive anti endermen list:
1) They destroy blocks, which may be a problem on the long run.
2) They alter the landscape.
3) They grief without any kind of interaction with the player.

These are called facts.

Quote from Trenix

Is it me, or is there just a little too much humor going to be present in minecraft when 1.9 comes out? I don't believe Notch is taking it seriously what-so-ever and it's just going to kill my experience in minecraft, a game which had much potential and respect. Instead of convincing people to buy the game now, I'm telling them to wait because I don't feel Notch is at the right state of mind at the moment.

Jokes in Patch 1.9

Snow Golem

- Renamed to escalate the joke.
- Made only because he was "frustrated".
- Could of been working on another mob, like a baby animal.
- Doesn't fit the theme of minecraft at all.

NPCs

- Look graphically bad when compared to the rest of minecraft.
- Have a humorous look that makes you not even take a village seriously or the game for that matter.
- Jeb stated that they are not planning on changing their look anytime soon.

Animal Breeding

- All animals will come from eggs because Notch thinks it's funny.
- Somehow I believe this isn't a joke because we all thought the snowman was and look what happened.
- Notch is most likely doing this because he's too lazy to introduce baby animals, which is a big disappointment.

All The Above

- Fans (most likely children) supported these additions, which only makes Notch want to make minecraft more of a joke than a real game because he believes that's what we want. Therefore he starts wasting his time on useless garbage that doesn't enhance our gaming experience.
- Last time I buy a game that's in beta only to see how each update makes it turn away from the general idea of the game.

Snow golems can be used to farm snow, to build guard places, and if you don't build them, they won't spawn naturally, so why would you complain if you will not ever see them?

You may find NPC ugly, as I do, but that's what texture packs are for. And keep in mind they are useless now, but once the trade/forge & cie features are added, you maybe won't find them this ridiculous anymore.

Is the point of animal breeding to have baby animals? Or have more animals? In my opinion it's the latest, and I don't really care how this will be achieved (would it be eggs, baby animals, mitosis or any random stuff)

On the "Fans", I'd say I think the 3 features you talk about enhance the gaming experience. (Snowmen can help improve mobfarms, NPC will allow trade and maybe repair items, breeding allows us to farm animals. + 2 of these are optional, you don't have to build snowmen and can turn off NPC villages in the world creation menu)

Your last sentence: "each update makes it turn away from the general idea of the game." 1) What is your general idea of the game? 2) Were all the updates you've seen so far (not only 1.8/1.9), bad in that sense?

I wouldn't them being able to move more (or even only) player placed blocks, as long as they don't ever ruin trees and put leaves everywhere for no reason since I can protect my buildings, but not the entire world.

I also agree they are weak as hell and should have their healh / damages buffed.

However, I don't think they add any backstory to the game. I mean, you say portals are 3 tall, but also that they might have build strongholds / mineshafts, etc that are designed for 2 blocks tall entities.

And also, if people don't agree with you, it doesn't mean they are 8 years old and whining all day. There were serious reasons for people to complain, and I think Notch understood this.

Quote from dantose

Keeping a mob a certain distance from a certain area (you) is spawn and movement control. Keeping a mob a certain distance from a certain area (your house) is spawn and movement control.

Hence, both creepers and endermen come down to spawn and movement control. Proximity control is intrinsic in both mobs. The only difference is whether it's proximity to a fixed area or a mobile area. That's a rather slight difference. Considering that failure to manage spawn and movement of creepers causes damage FAR quicker, I still view them as the larger NPC greifing threat.

If I'm not near that tree, it will not be blown up by a creeper. If I'm around that tree but very carefull, it will not be blown up by creepers.

You even told it yourself in your first post: "If you are in a smallish area and a creeper wanders in from where he spawned". There are some conditions where it might be hard to avoid creeper explosion, (yet it's still possible). However, these condition do not apply to endermen. You can't compare a red car, and a green car and say: If I paint the green car in red, it's the same.

Now, tell me how to keep endermen away from the "little" area of about (144 blocks~) 9 chunks radius around me (and I agree I'm mobile). Because that's where endermen do their stuff. (Edit to make it clear: do their stuff = griefing, may it be a house (easily protected), or the landscape)

Where creepers start to detonate when they are at about 2-3 blocks from the player.

I don't think it's a slight difference...

Quote from Digmit

I really don't understand it. The reason most people give for wanting Endermen NOT to play with blocks is in case they by chance ruin their silly little houses.
This is survival, and to keep the game fresh and exciting we must adapt to a ever adapting world, in that way we learn how to survive.

I wouldn't mind if they ONLY attempted to break what we built, I don't mind having to protect what I build, or design it to be ender-proof. However, the landscape is simply not something you can protect, and that's my biggest concern about endermens...

Quote from wolfy910

Sadly this is what happens when the whining kids get their way. I love the Endermen how they are now. If you don't like them go play another game.

At least the whining kids have arguments, where you only say "i love the Endermen", they say: that they are not player centered (aka do their brainless stuff without any interraction from the player), they may destroy our buildings (which are easy to protect or repair, I agree), they denature the landscape (floating trees, leafs on the ground, ...), they destroy blocks when they despawn/die with one block in the hands, which may in the very long term be an issue.

And "If you don't like them go play another game" is not an argument either, fyi.

As someone said in the "Endermen is sabotage" thread, some people whine about endermens ruining their stuff, and some people whine about people whining.

I'm glad it will be nerfed.

There is no point to have a mob destroying slowly but surely the landscape without any kind of interraction from the player...

However, they should be more agressive, hit harder and have more hp, that would make them somewhat scary in my opinion.

I just hate Endermen. I don't get how some people can like them, they are totally useless and annoying. They are supposed to be scary, yet are passive unless YOU provoke them, and even then, they are not hard to kill at all, I personally find skeletons harder to deal with.

Add to that the fact they grief (thing that most of the smp players hate), but because they are mobs it should be ok? Every time i get griefed by an enderman, it's like Notch himself is griefing me. Oh and while i'm at it, someone said he liked to repair his buildings over and over, because that was "survival", so if he hosts a server it would be my pleasure to grief him over and over, enderman style.

They ruin mobtraps (and if you can't understand why some people use mobtraps, I think you either build little 4x4 houses and that's all, or only want to kill mobs by hand (in which case you should play games like dead island instead of minecraft), or use mods such as too many items or invedit.)

They also ruin the landscape, i'm sick tired of these floating trees all around my map, because some enderman wanted to grab that piece of wood. It's UGLY, pointless and don't tell me I have to light up all forest/swamp biomes please.

I'm just glad we have a nice modding community to make up for Notch mistakes.

Quote from The_Metal_Bard

What aggravates me the most is that people seem obsessed with confusing tedium with challenge. The Enderman are weak, with or without the ability to move blocks. Even if they weren't nerfed, all they would amount to being is a pest. As usual the common argument is that if you do not like it, put it on creative/peaceful. This argument again is not valid, the majority was quite comfortable with the mobs as they were before the update. The point of the game has been and as is as far as most are concerned to build outlandish and epic structures, all while fighting to manually obtain the materials.

The material cost of these monuments to facilitate their creation through normal, manual game-play can be quite costly, but if obtained (manually, of course or as a reward in an adventure map), it will generally increase the worth of such structures to the player.

I agree with you up to this point.

Of course people can just play around with the game in creative mode, but why should they be forced to sacrifice what was up until now the accepted way to play, all because of one mob who has arguably the worst most useless and annoying secondary ability a mob could have in this game. People keep touting this update as if it was supposed to change the game completely. Change it into something that it is not.

1. are people really changing how they play because of one mob?
2. I was expecting a change that would promote adventuring. In the form of exploring the land, trying to see what's out there and engaging in "encounters" that would be worth re-telling. I agree some were expecting something different, and thus missing the point.

All the Enderman do is destroy the environment, making it look ugly, leaving chunks everywhere, some floating, and some on the coastline, and they also screw up forests. Of even greater importance, they really tend to mess up adventure maps. I can understand why map makers would be (and from what I have heard, have been) quite vocal against Enderman and their block carrying shenanigans.

I suppose I can understand. In the case of creepers, they do way more damage, granted its only if the player is there to trigger the creeper explosion, I agree.

People tend to to place way too much weight on this mob, as if it were some kind of Minecraft god. I hear ideas that range from silly to idiotic, with maybe one or two plausible candidates, maybe. It is almost ridiculous. I blame this partly on the hype machine-that had preceded this update.

They are not scary, they are not really all that creepy, they are just annoying and can be avoided completely most of the time.

No one seems to want to acknowledge this, they believe that because they randomly grief buildings and terrain, that it somehow counts as challenge or in some cases I have heard the term creepy thrown around in concerning this feature. It really isn't. Even creepers are more acceptable and perhaps more intimidating. I imagine the outcry would be the more of the same that we hear now, if say, we took creepers and caused them to spontaneously explode after a certain period of time. However they don't and it has been balanced for a long time, to permit a game world where mobs can be a threat without resorting to off-screen griefing. I am happy they are being nerfed but I feel that it (block carrying) should for now be removed completely.

You can have threatening mobs without forcing players to sacrifice the aesthetic value of creations and hard earned rewards.

Mobs have done quite well enough as obstacles between the player and treasure...

Yes Enderman are not scary or creepy and just plain annoying at the moment. But they could be scary, creepy and a just challenge. I don't think off-screen griefing is the problem, but rather griefing where it won't be noticed such as when you won't be around to discover it. This is what makes the creeper acceptable is that the explosion happens when it'll be noticed. But what if Enderman could be adjusted? Also, I think the reason they are not scary is because the landscape is pretty much spammed with them, and they are killed quite easily.

And yes, they are not threatening. ( keeping in mind; I'm not sure whether this is a bug or not, but Enderman on my servers don't attack me unless I attack them first.)

and as far as adventure goes, I hear a common complaint about people feeling to safe in their homes, and since many people on the other side of the argument have been so eloquently telling many of us how to play, perhaps I should impart some knowledge of my own upon this boards residency. Maybe if you are feeling too safe, you should probably forego the construction of your house, maybe only store your items in a chest that is inside a pit, and live like a nomad? Adventure is something you usually leave your house for, yet many seem to think it will readily arrive just through the act of sitting on their duff. Tip: leave your house and start adventuring.

I think you are quite right, but instead of nerfing Enderman, I suggest an alternate solution (below).

The adventure update wasn't meant to change Minecraft into some completely new game. To see everything it had to offer you needed to leave and explore, you know, actually GO ON AN ADVENTURE. It was there to make the experience of resource collecting more varied (and... well, adventurous!). It is not meant to turn the game into some rpg or adventure game. Minecraft is a unique game, and I hope it stays that way. If however notch decides to completely change the course of this game, I will accept this. I won't like it, I will voice my opposition in a constructive manner. But I will accept it.

I agree that the point of the adventure update was to not only add adventure, but to promote leaving your structure by means of dangling a carrot (rewards or the prospect thereof) away from home, and have the player venture to get it whilst encountering weird, wonderful, funny, scary, creepy occurrences on the way that are worthy of re-telling other players, and the rewarding the player for venturing into the wild.

Creatures like the Enderman are supposed to add to this variety. I agree that this is currently not the case.

My solution is the following:

-1 in 5 Enderman should, when it becomes aware of the player, teleport some distance behind the player, but not attack. Call it "Enderman being amused with the player, or taunting the player"
-Make Enderman stray away from light and order/civilization, keeping them away from player built structures. Enderman will only wander into light when in pursuit of a victim. (certain other mobs/player). Then wander to the shadows again.
-Enderman can only pick up blocks in the wild, when they are within say 20 blocks of the player.
-Make Enderman take, and deal more damage.
-Reduce the occurrence of Enderman to be about as scarce as wolves. They are spamming the landscape. In my opinion this is the sole reason they are not scary/creepy. Something is scary when you don't understand it. Placing as many Enderman on the landscape is making them common. Common is common. Not scary.
-Enderman should be loners. The odd exception should be two Enderman and should be Mythically scarce.

My reasoning for the above is that since this is the adventure update, Enderman should balance adventuring more than building which is a somewhat versed mechanic already. Enderman will be tougher, making them a more formidable encounter. They will be scarce to the point that the player will feel it worth exploring, as an Enderman encounter in the wild is (seemingly) unlikely and thus worth the risk. Keeping Enderman away from light and order, means they will stop griefing player structures, solving that problem, and keeping them in the wild as adventurous encounters. The above will make the Enderman a more mystical mob, adding to the creepiness/scariness.

What aggravates me the most is that people seem obsessed with confusing tedium with challenge. The Enderman are weak, with or without the ability to move blocks. Even if they weren't nerfed, all they would amount to being is a pest. As usual the common argument is that if you do not like it, put it on creative/peaceful. This argument again is not valid, the majority was quite comfortable with the mobs as they were before the update. The point of the game has been and as is as far as most are concerned to build outlandish and epic structures, all while fighting to manually obtain the materials.

The material cost of these monuments to facilitate their creation through normal, manual game-play can be quite costly, but if obtained (manually, of course or as a reward in an adventure map), it will generally increase the worth of such structures to the player. Of course people can just play around with the game in creative mode, but why should they be forced to sacrifice what was up until now the accepted way to play, all because of one mob who has arguably the worst most useless and annoying secondary ability a mob could have in this game. People keep touting this update as if it was supposed to change the game completely. Change it into something that it is not.

All the Enderman do is destroy the environment, making it look ugly, leaving chunks everywhere, some floating, and some on the coastline, and they also screw up forests. Of even greater importance, they really tend to mess up adventure maps. I can understand why map makers would be (and from what I have heard, have been) quite vocal against Enderman and their block carrying shenanigans. People tend to to place way too much weight on this mob, as if it were some kind of Minecraft god. I hear ideas that range from silly to idiotic, with maybe one or two plausible candidates, maybe. It is almost ridiculous. I blame this partly on the hype machine-that had preceded this update.

They are not scary, they are not really all that creepy, they are just annoying and can be avoided completely most of the time. No one seems to want to acknowledge this, they believe that because they randomly grief buildings and terrain, that it somehow counts as challenge or in some cases I have heard the term creepy thrown around in concerning this feature. It really isn't. Even creepers are more acceptable and perhaps more intimidating. I imagine the outcry would be more of the same of what we hear now, if say, we took creepers and caused them to spontaneously explode after a certain period of time. However they don't and it has been balanced that way for a long time, to permit a game world where mobs can be a threat without resorting to off-screen griefing. I am happy they are being nerfed but I feel that it (block carrying) should for now be removed completely.

You can have threatening mobs without forcing players to sacrifice the aesthetic value of creations and hard earned rewards. Mobs have done quite well enough as obstacles between the player and treasure, and as far as adventure goes, I hear a common complaint about people feeling too safe in their homes, and since many people on the other side of the argument have been so eloquently telling many of us how to play, perhaps I should impart some knowledge of my own upon this boards residency. Maybe if you are feeling too safe, you should probably forego the construction of your house, maybe only store your items in a chest that is inside a pit, and live like a nomad? Adventure is something you usually leave your house for, yet many seem to think it will readily arrive just through the act of sitting on their duff. Tip: leave your house and start adventuring.

The adventure update wasn't meant to change Minecraft into some completely new game. To see everything it had to offer you needed to leave and explore, you know, actually GO ON AN ADVENTURE. It was there to make the experience of resource collecting more varied (and... well, adventurous!). It is not meant to turn the game into some rpg or adventure title. Minecraft is a unique undertaking, and I hope it stays that way. If however notch decides to completely change the course of this project, I will accept this. I won't like it, I will voice my opposition in a constructive manner. But I will accept it.

You know what they say: "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it".

Quote from TehWench

I don't see any good points.

Creative mode was put in for you to play with your pretty castles.

It's called survival mode.

You're taking down the challenge one block at a time
(Pun intended)

Anyone who thinks that the current block moving ability the Endermen have now is actually a "challenge" must be "challenged" themselves in the intelligence department.

There is no challenge right now, merely annoyance. If the block moving is a challenge for you, perhaps YOU should be the one playing on creative or peaceful.


It would be awesome if they'd actually move blocks with a purpose. Either to build structures, or to get to the player to kill them.

Heck, I'd like it if Endermen could sense the player from a certain distance, without actually seeing him, and then move and place blocks to get to the player. No more lazy dirt holes for your first nights, or staying on an unfortified tree. However, that would conflict with the current "only attacks when looked at directly" theme.

Or hell... When dawn approaches, have them dig themselves a little hole to hide in until night falls. Walking over hidden, entombed Endermen that just MIGHT pop up out of the ground to tear your face off would be wonderful.

Some people want them to actually be a creepy, suspenseful, and dangerous enemy instead of the boring annoyance they are now.

Quote from Aavri

Reason?

How about this: They were DESIGNED to pick up blocks so they should be able to pick up a large range of blocks.


It's like people complaining about creepers. They are DESIGNED to explode stuff and can blow up anything but obsidian.


You want your stuff to be safe from creepers? you make it creeper proof.

you want stuff to be safe from endermen? Make it ender-proof.


In fact, endermen have giving me something to do in minecraft. Right now it is mainly just make my minecart system, toy with redstone, and build some structures. I finish most of that in 1/4th a minecraft day and just mine. Now I got something to fill some "free time" with Fixing enderholes.

The only reason why I am against them taking logs and leaves is since Logs and leaves are apart of a "tree". Floating "trees" enrage me.



Edit: Who ever says creepers only blow up when provoked has never played minecraft. One of the first experiences in minecraft people have is having a creeper sneak up on you (you did not attack it) while mining, hearing the Ssssss, and then it exploding on you.



Also, I'm happy with what some one said earlier. Endermen only take the nerfed blocks easy/maybe normal, and the full range in hard.

Creepers don't explode at random leaving craters around the world. They explode only when they get close to you. Endermen move blocks regardless. You make a house creeper proof by not sucking at this game and detonating them. Your argument was described perfectly: No reason.

You should be happy to know trees can no longer be moved. It's rather convenient though. You don't like floating trees/leaves because it irritates you, therefore you should get your way. But if someone else doesn't like a field resembling a checkerboard, well they're just whining.

The entire idea is dumb.

Quote from Quackers

So like you said...completely legit. Well then why are you trying to nerf endermen. Don't you want to play it completely legit?

Simple: endermen in their current build present little in the form of a challenge and a lot in the form of cheap annoyance, nothing more.

The question is: Why is it such a good thing to have your creations destroyed? Do you hate them or something? Do you like playing the janitor to the wreckage they leave?

The biggest problem is that they do it without needing our interaction. It's an unnecessary punishment for just playing the game. Sure we can Enderman-proof our structures, but why should we have to? We don't Creeper-proof our structures. Creepers don't go around exploding for no reason. If we tick off the creeper they react. Similarly the Enderman ability should only be used when we catch their eyes.

Another problem is that they are deleting the world. They don't drop the blocks they pick up if they die or despawn. This means that at any moment random blocks below the ground are being deleted. Not picked up and moved but deleted. The work it can take to get some blocks makes this a very bad thing. They could be picking up diamond gold and other rare blocks and deleting them.

Now, do they need to stop picking up blocks? No. Like you said they could be expanded upon and fixed rather than just not build. For example: They might seek out certain blocks for structures that they are programmed to build. While passive they won't take any blocks that they don't need or blocks that have blocks on top of them (to prevent them from hurting trees or player walls to an extent). While angered they can pick up anything and will move any block to get to the player. If they die they drop the block they picked up.

Tada it now is not a griefer nor has its ability been removed. Only refined and they need refinement, because they don't add challenge to the game. They only make us clean up their mess while they slowly delete the world, which is bad for a game about building things.

I don't agree. They're destroying our work.

I GIVE THE DEATH SENTENCE!

Modders are "better" than Mojang because they don't have to make the game. All they do is MODIFY it. Every time a member of Mojang sits down to work on the game, they think of the entire thing, and how it ALL can be changed to make one feature better. You see a few features and you think "oh man Mojang is slow" but what you don't see are all the changes and development going on under the hood! Modders aren't people with vision or a wide perspective. They just want to make a few cool things. You know that Notch would love to just be a modder, to always work on the "fun" things as he puts it and not on the "boring" things such as making the engine better, but alas he does have to work on boring, thankless, laborious, tedious code that ends up not even registering to you idiots who would rather argue about pig snouts and mountain height.

Mojang could make a million crafting items and terrain changes if they wanted. The point is, make something new and interesting, not more of the same but slightly different. For example the snowmen that are "crafted" by placing blocks, and the endermen that aggro when you look at them.

The other thing is mojang has no real competition. You guys already paid, so listening to your complaints is really just charity and not necessity; other minecraft-esque games are in their infancy; and terraria is 2D so its not even the same thing. So why should they be better than modders? The fact they they even want to keep working on the game is awesome in my book, so go Mojang!

Hey gang,

I know the NPC's are a tad polarizing round about these parts. So, for funs I whipped up a pack you can download that makes all the NPC's 1) Noseless 2) Radical 3) Human.

I have replaced all the textures, you just need to overwrite the existing textures in the mobs folder in the .jar. It only took me a few min to find them when I started and this is the first texture pack I've ever painted... So I imagine if you care, you can manage.

I could only find the four NPC types in the two villages in my level. If someone can find the regular Villager (now female in my pack) or the Butcher, please take screenshots and post them!

CHECK IT OUT! The pic is a link to my blog where you can snatch the download link!



Comments, Suggestions, Critique all welcome.