Minecraft Forums

Quote from Too-DAMN-Much

1. actually it quite literally is by definition vaporware at this point, definition here:



2. no you're not trolling, elo is and i wish it would stop someday because we all just want to stop waiting for no reason and get on with our lives, it's too bad the modder doesn't want that though.

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Quote from Benie

Anyone think that RP2 should just get updated with no new features? Since it's been months, I'd prefer it to just be updated with nothing added.
Wait on features once it's updated. That's just my two cents.

Quote from AnonTheMouse

Therein lies the difficulty. Without a wand, I can't do anything else in the mod. Any particular level that they favour, or certain kinds of region? Seriously, if anyone knows, let me in on it. On my current world, I'm stalled out sitting on resources because I can't even make the most basic tools to get started.




I've been trying that too. Found an area with what is practically a silverwood grove, a few double greatwood trees, random wisps, but no crystal.

Quote from Prometech

Im assuming this mod has died. Unfortunately, that is what I have come to terms with.

Quote from diamondeye83

[Official channel of RedPower | eloraam.com is DOWN | No there is no ETA! | Redpower 1.4.5 Release: Its coming, when it's done! Latest Update: Port to 1.4.5 Progressing. 1.3.2 Broke a lot of things but the majority of core functionality is working. it's all about the FRUBES!!!]

That is on #redpower irc channel

Quote from Zexks

We're witnessing the end of these large strictly proprietary mods. If mojang is able to release on the schedule they are shooting for, there is no way eloraam is going to be able to keep up. So unless she opens up a bit about the whole thing, this will be the end of RP.

Quote from dalsio

Or, instead of a whisp dragon, they combine into a giant whisp monster that can shoot multiple lightning bolts at a time. Or perhaps a snake made of whisps chained together, like a party train of whispy death.

While I greatly favor the new aspect mechanic over the old random chance research (I love it to death), I do miss artifacts, different kinds of research (lost, forbidden, eldritch), obelisks, and the mechanic of using objects in the world to help you research. Not sure if Azanor was planning to ever put either of them in, but I wouldn't know how to integrate them into the new system. I'm sure he's thought about it, but maybe a few ideas can help.

Maybe a new aspect can be added for artifacts, representing old, ancient. Perhaps a new aspect can be added for eldritch as well, or maybe in fact researching the aspect of artifacts leads to eldritch researches. Maybe obelisks can be the sole sources of these artifacts, instead of finding them in dungeons. Perhaps as well, obelisks can spawn in the underground, like the old thaumcraft 2 dungeons. Or, maybe there can be two types of artifacts with two types of aspects: one representing old, spawning in dungeons, and one representing eldritch, spawning in obelisks.

Perhaps you could put bookshelves near your research table to improve the research yield or speed when researching materials, or maybe put the jars filled with essences near it to improve the research of those aspects. Perhaps a new special block can be researched that does it, and can be tiers. Perhaps the higher tiered research requires crazy amounts of aspects, which could be acquired via massive amounts of raw materials, but would be much easier with these bookshelves/jars. Then again, that starts to feel more and more like the old way, and the new way just feels much better. Not sure that integrating this kind of stuff into the new way without making it feel like the old way is even possible, but oh well.

Quote from GrammieFi

Petator, my main issue with your suggestion is that it takes what is now a pretty complete system and changes it into something else. It also, as Maoyu says, takes away some possibilities in multi-player interaction. In my opinion it's better to focus on working with the system Mithion already has worked out and think of ways to improve that rather than suggesting a whole new way of doing things. (not that you can't suggest whatever you want, of course...)

Plus, I don't want to see Ars and Thaumcraft dependent on each other, just cooperative.

Quote from Lord_Ygnas

Disclaimer: To be perfectly honest with you, I have not toyed with ArsMagica for too long, and it's been a while since I've read about it. Thus, all the following comments might be a slightly out of place, however I try to generalize my comments, so that even if that wouldn't seem much on-topic, it still should be a valid opinion or source of inspiration perhaps.

===

Comments on the poll

Should Spell Recipes be obtainable via some sort of research system?

Personally I would advise to wait for the Azanor's research API. Or mayhaps better yet coordinate it with him? I dunnae how close Ars Magica is to Thaumcraft development-wise. But yeah, I don't have to say how great the TC's research system is, and that expanding upon that might actually be more beneficial than writing own research system from scratch. Besides, it would already be a somewhat 'familiar research system' for users, so they wouldn't really have to dwell into the manual if they already got it covered from other mod.

But, yes, it should be integrated with the exploration system as well.

Is a summonable mount something you would like to see in the mod?
Personally, I dislike the idea of flying mounts, and I even am reluctant about the land ones. I dunnae, mounts are more of a MMORPG thing for me, and they don't really feel fitting for minecraft. I know that there are mods that add them, but me. I know that having a flying mount would be 'fancy'... but I don't like things that are just 'fancy'.

Though I might be prejudiced because I am fed up with seeing potentially rare mounts (dragons anyone? Here's one for you, one for you, and two more for you...) flying all around the place. Dragons... sheesh.

If you'd keep it simple, not too-fancy, but as a prize for a hard and long work, however, it might be something I could actually one day enjoy.

What would you like to see expanded on most in future updates after 1.4.5?
To be honest, I am not that familiar with Ars Magica, I've toyed with it only for a little while. But I think I can comment about couple options within the poll.

More spells - I honestly don't know how many there are already. But in my opinion, there should only be as many spells as it is logically reasonable based on their functionality.

Factions - Don't know much about this idea, but from what I read above... I personally wouldn't like to have to chose between sort of 'light' or 'dark'. Why? More of a personal thinking about what 'true power' comes from.

What is the true power, you may ask? Some say it's knowledge, and with that I strongly agree. But knowledge alone doesn't give you power directly if you don't know how to use it. The true power comes from 'understanding'. And, in my opinion, you cannot be a very powerful sorcerer if you don't understand how to wield magic, and what effects and side effects it yields. But also, to properly grasp either side of magic, like, Light or Dark, you must study (and practice) both in order to excel in any.

Thus said, I would personally dislike the idea of choice between, for example, Light or Dark, for a proper sage and powerful sorcerer will know both -- though the road to accomplish that is long and steep. This would also apply for any other opposite elements of magic.

Now, that's what I wouldn't like to see. How about what I would like to see? A factions probably based on the elemental schools of magic would be good. Pretty much contrary to what I have just said. But it perhaps should be better implemented with some sort of reputation system, than a flat 'is member of (...)' values. And the reputation would change depending on quests, as well as on what school of magic you use to achieve the goals set by the faction.

Basically, what I am trying to say: Reputation system over a flat-out membership boolean would be something I would gladly see, should there be factions implemented.

Quests
As said above, if there were factions, I would take quests as granted. But otherwise those wouldn't have much sense, unless perhaps for the NPC Mages...

NPC Mages and their interaction with the world
That would be definitely worth looking into. I have no idea how the NPC Mage system works in game right now, except that they were tossing fireballs at me when I encountered one during my short toying with the mod. Though it would be great if the NPC Mages were something more than just random enemies and/or NPCs with whom you could trade with. It would be great if they also had some sort of reputation, various power levels, and all the fancy stuff to emulate bit more life into the world of Minecraft. Thus I think they'd need some proper, smart AI, putting a lot of work into them.

But enough of my speculations, ideas and stuff. Let me talk a bit of my own thoughts about magical mods, that is Thaumcraft and ArsMagica.

===

My own thoughts about magical mods (Mainly Ars Magica & ThaumCraft)

Basically, Thaumcraft was the very first 'magical' mod I've heard of and played. And I loved it. Sadly it lacked multiplayer compatibility, and knowing that Thaumcraft 3 is in developement, I put it on hold and have been following the TC3 developement ever since.

In the meantime I have been looking for some other magical mods, but honestly haven't found that many that would fit my liking. It's pretty much only Thaumcraft and... ArsMagica. They both fit my liking of what magical mod would look like. It's been said already, but let me outline that again, since it's a larger post already.

What I loved about Thaumcraft is that it deals with magical devices instead of direct spellcasting. It utilizes the essence of the world, formerly known as the Vis, now known as the Aura. The player researched the various theories and then built magical devices and artifacts that utilized that magical resource as a fuel in order to operate, or infuse the other things with. What I also loved about Thaumcraft is that it offered various branches of such technologies.

Now, Ars Magica is something quite opposite to Thaumcraft, but in such way that it actually fills in the theme of magical mods. Whereas Thaumcraft offers a player ability to utilize the Essence of the World (Vis/Aura) without the need for own powers, the Ars Magica focuses about Character's internal essence. The Player harnesses that inner power and shapes it into desired form via spells to interact with the world around it. Without need to rely on technological devices.

Those two mods open the doors into the world ruled by things we cannot explain with known physics. Things just happen, what the hell. Obviously, the world of magic has its own rules. Everything is managed with rules, even if it is plain chaos.

Now, I like to think of it as if these two mods, two different mechanics of interacting with the magical world, utilize the same magical resource. I like to think of it as if the Aura and the Essence are the exact same thing. They both fill the World and the Character, and are at our disposal (though not always the way we want it to be). They obviously work tad bit differently, but they have a lot in common. Both Aura and Essence regenerate over time (as far as I am aware, please correct me if I am wrong), but both are subject to depletion. And they both fuel something - be it machines or spells.

Obviously, we speak of magic as if there was only one type of magic. Aura and Essence being a single resource. Please do allow me to call these two resources simply as Essence, for the ease of reference. Even though we seem to have it as a primary resource, magic does introduce us to Elemental Schools of Magic. We all know it. Light, Darkness, Death, Fire, Water, Earth, et cetera et cetera. Thaumcraft does implement this as Aspects which are present in pretty much everything. From what little I've played Ars Magica, it also seems to divide the essence into elements for spells (and thus runes), but in different way. I have not looked much in-depth into how Ars Magica handles it, but my point is: Both mods do similar things, even if they don't necessarily converge.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that there is a lot of room for these two mods to work together and interchange certain aspects, or even resources, with a lot of ease (from end-user point of view).

Thus, might I actually inquire the authors of the mod as to what are your own opinions and plans for the, let's call it "compatibility" between these two mods, if any specific? I suspect that at the launch they would be very separate, but how about some little plans for integration in the future?

Also, is there any info whether Azanor himself might be interested in Ars Magica and the potential of... let's say, cooperation between the two mods? It would really be lovely if the two mods were actually 'made' to complete each other -- though I realize that this is only an idea of a perfect world. Still, one can only wonder and hope.

Now, a very brief thought about the Equivalent Exchange 3. I don't really consider it magical mod too much. It has potential, but in my opinion it lacks mechanics -- at the moment at least. I know it is still in early developement. But the mod feels more about 'crafting' than 'transmuting'. It lacks the time effort (on the player's end) to get things done, and I consider it more of a 'utility' than a full-scale magical mod. Same applies to it's predecessor, EE2.

And do please excuse me if my post is a bit inconsistent. There is so much I could talk about these two that I actually might be making the post a bit chaotic. It's all from excitement. I love the ideas of both ThaumCraft 3 and Ars Magica, and cannot (well, actually can) wait to play them in depth alongside each other.

Hope I didn't bore you to death,
Iggy the Mad.

• Spells are permanent once learned. Icons for these spells are stored to the right of your inventory, to be dropped into your hotbar. These spell "items" are given more recognizable icons (ie minus the scroll) and cannot be placed in your inventory.
• Spells are cast by pressing its hotbar hotkey (1 for the first space, etc). Instead of switching to that item, it charges the spell while the key is held down, and casts it when your release it. No need to switch to a scroll, cast it, then switch back to what you were previously holding.

• Part 1: find a particular artifact (like a tome or magical ashes) that only spawns in a wizard tower/archive, or is a rare drop from Ghasts or mages.
• Part 2: research the artifact from part 1 to get at theory that you must prove via the TC3 research system.
• Part 3: the discovery from part 2 tells you how to execute a ritual that will alter your magical and physical form to allow you to shoot fireballs from your hands. Randomized, but always with components that make sense for a fire-type spell. Something like: build an altar in a desert -> do the ritual at midday -> burn two pigs alive on the altar -> provide a sacrifice of 4 blaze powder -> use a ritual dagger to cut yourself while standing on the altar. Doing the ritual improperly will cause something bad to happen, like debuffs or explosive release of magical energy.

Quote from AnonTheMouse

I'm a bit late to the party, so forgive me if in nearly two-hundred pages, something like this has been covered. I did make an effort to read what I could, but there's no easy way to search for abstract ideas, and many posts are quite lengthy. It would take me a while to go through everything, by which point I think I might forget some of the points I had. I think my ideas may be similar to some things I've read, but have a different take as well.


There is one thing that I would like to see changed completely from the current system of Thaumcraft, and that is Taint. To me, this system puts an arbitrary moral distinction on certain basic magics, and properly I feel that the only moral threshold ought to be in choosing to deal with horrorterrors from beyond the farthest darkness.

I still feel that Aura should be composed of two forces, but not "good" and "evil" forces, where one is purely beneficial and the other wholly malign. What I picture is two equal elements. We'll call them Anima and Animus. However, each of these forms would be equally Vis. In fact, "Vis" would contain equal parts of both, if one were to use the endgame or catalyst models of liquid Vis. Both would be equally important, and moreover, equally dangerous.

• Anima is the essence of vitality and creation in its purest form. It would be necessary for magic that nurtures or creates something, such as growing plants or infusing armour with protective magic.
• Animus is the essence of destruction and decay...however, it is not inherently evil. Magic that pulls things apart or harms, such as a magical quarry/harvester or magically enhanced weapons, would all be fuelled by Animus.
• Vis is simply the two forces in balance. Literally power in its purest form, it requires equal parts of each, and is used in "pure" magic, such as opening portals, summoning creatures, or crafting items with esoteric properties (such as those used to measure the Aura, for example).

If this sounds a lot like the current system, that's because on the surface it is. So, why is that distinction important? Well, first of all, most magic wouldn't be completely creative or destructive. More often than not, you'd deal with things that require gathering some of both, even if one is more predominant. More importantly, though, this makes things a little more difficult than "Build things to positively charge the environment to offset your Taint footprint". In nature, both creation and destruction are equally important. Death and decay keep rampant growth in check, and the development of new life keeps the land from becoming barren. There's a natural cycle that is maintained. So, what happens when you have too much of one or the other? Well, under this system, both extremes are bad.

When there's an excess of Anima, plants grow out of control, even tearing down structures. The air becomes saturated with a choking cloud of pollen and spores. Natural creatures, even normally peaceful ones, enter a state of forced evolution and mutate into dangerous, savage versions of themselves (think D&D's dire animals). Over time, the landscape could transform into a nigh-impenetrable toxic jungle, populated by hostile magic-infused plants and ravening feral beasts.

On the other hand, too much Animus in an area brings down a destructive blight. Plants wither, the earth cracks and fills with pools of noxious sludge, and pestilence and harmful emanations saturate the landscape. Destructive energies discharge periodically without source in jets of flame or bursts of lightning, a malice from the very forces of nature that lashes out blindly at anything it can. Only monsters thrive here, bolstered by the harsh environment that fuels their own capacity to destroy, producing horrors such as toxic slimes, creepers imbued with arcane energies, or zombies and skeletons formed from the remains of many creatures into grotesque but powerful abominations. Left unchecked, the results of excess Animus produce a desolate wasteland that promises doom for any foolish enough to brave its treacherous landscape.

Of course, flux would mean that areas would settle over time, but this would only stop the effects, not fully reverse them. Transformed monster would remain, though new ones would cease to be created, landscapes would stay blighted or overgrown, and toxic effects in the air would take a good deal of time to clear off. Essentially, the type of flux would be effected by the overall charge in the area, and by weather it was excessive or depleted. The player, then, would have to balance their workings. Let an area slide too much toward either energy, and you face the consequences. Only by careful planning, offsetting great workings with others that will tip the balance back toward equilibrium, and carefully monitoring one's actions is it possible to perform magic safely, and reckless use will always invite disaster. Thaumaturgy, then, becomes as much art as science, a dangerous practice that requires care and planning to use, lest one risk destroying themselves, much as magic is described in stories.

The truly "Dark" magic would still have its place, but as an extension of Eldritch magic. Only by making dark pacts and performing forbidden rituals is one able to be favoured with the power of the abyssal beings man was never meant to understand. I see this as building up a third kind of energy, Karma. So, it's not just a moral choice, the player actually makes a personal sacrifice to access the greatest power. Unlike other forms of magic, Karma exists as a person's personal energy, and is theoretically infinite. However, whereas Aura would be neither good nor bad, a player's Karma can most definitely be tainted. Much like Aura, a player's Karma would eventually stabilize, but the more Eldritch magic one employs, the higher their Karmic Taint becomes. What is unlike Aura is that the effects of Karmic Taint do not store up and then discharge, they persist until a player's Karma recovers. At low levels, penalties would be low, like making levels take more experience to gain or Aura harder to draw upon. The player might grow hungry faster (maybe even never gaining saturation from food). As it gets worse, so too the effects, into things like slower regeneration, attracting mobs at a greater distance, perhaps even dimming the player's vision. At some levels, these might even manifest outright potion debuffs, as the player continues to suffer from the dark energies poisoning their soul even to the point a player's max health might be capped. Most importantly, though, would be this. The thresholds at which effects get removed would be much lower than those at which they are added, making overuse of Eldritch power highly dangerous (though high levels of Karmic Taint would actually be likely to take a bit of effort). Some items made with Eldritch magic could even carry an inherent taint in them, artificially inflating the player's Karmic Taint when used or worn.

Having a system that carries strong personal penalties would allow for some more powerful effects to be introduced, as well. For example, using a system like Mystcraft, there could be an Eldritch ritual that provides the player with their own personal pocket-dimension, a dark fortress floating in an endless void that comes pre-furnished with some useful structures of power and generates more Aura as a "baseline" than would naturally occur, making it an ideal place for performing greater workings. Further, the Eldritch caster might be able to summon Lovecraftian horrors to serve them, like a Hound of Tindalos (which could act like a tamed wolf, but would be tougher, stronger, recover by killing things, and able to teleport), or a Shoggoth worker (similar to the Minions mod).

Quote from WhiteJack

Overall you had some cool ideas which i really liked, but these three are something i'm a bit more critical about.

• Worldgen Stuff ist overall nice, but the minecraft world is feeling more and more like a swiss cheese with how many underground dungeons, cavern and whatnot you have. It feels more and more as if you can't even built the simplest underground halls without hitting some monster-"infested" area. So i'd rather like to see some 'leveitatin castle' or magic tower than having another hole in the earth.
• Randomness is allways something problematic. Because it often feels like some artificial way to prolong a game or raise the hardness. See the old research system. It doesn't felt like you we're really doing something worthwile. It felt more like a artificial burden. And so i'm also a bit critical on the whole "random disposition" thing.
• Timing can be a huge problem in SMP (judging from how a lot of redstone stuff seem to make problems in SMP), so would avoid such mechanics if i can in Multiplayer at least.

Hope you don't mind of me pointing out why i'm sceptical about them.

Quote from , name="nwroB_cirE" »

Another suggestion (I think this has been said before, but maybe not):
The sonic screwdriver's right click will be to give a redstone signal to whatever you are pointing it at.

• Bring back seals, if they're not already in TC3. They were fun!
• More worldgen stuff. Rare, dangerous, and lucrative dungeons and ruined cities with otherwise hidden knowledge. Maybe even unique artifacts to find and bosses to fight.
• Witches have some degree of Thaumic knowledge/behavior. Random chance of golems, research notes, and bottled aspects in their houses. Witches occasionally use and drop offensive wands.
• Powerful summoned beings that can be bargained with or fought. Random type and disposition upon each summon. Obscene amount of aspects or sacrifices to get their attention.
• Complex rituals for some of the more powerful objects that require precise ingredients, placement, timing, and activation. If not executed properly, they will miscast and do terrible things. EDIT: By timing,I mean time of day.

Quote from Mumfrey

However, reading through the herocraft forums I'm not sure that it's illegal any more: this would appear to suggest otherwise.