This is a post to indicate that I would like to include Factorization in the Official ForgeCraft public modpack. I think we're covered in that a) novel builds using Factorization will be built on the Official ForgeCraft server (and by users of the modpack), and that any bugs/etc with the mod will be reported properly to mod developers.
If I did this wrong please yell at me neptunepink
To ensure that we are complying with the license, Vaygrim has put together a build video. Here you go!
Just a quick note to say that I've updated the Rules page for ModJam to specifically state that partial packs will be accepted if they follow a "theme" (ie, Trees and Flora, NPCs, The Nether, ...). I'm working on some more prizes as well.
Hopefully this change makes it more interesting for resource pack makers this time around, realizing we are right up to the deadline here
Next time around I promise some more "support" (for lack of a better word) in the resource pack competition!
Why do you think that? I thought we established that few people ever went on that channel.
I really don't see IRC becoming a more popular place for artists to hang out. I used to use it extensively when I worked on Battle for Wesnoth. But when I did stuff of interest mainly to art devs, we used the forums. One more click per image adds up, and if you are going to comment on it, read other responses to it, and refer back to it to see if you agree, (a common scenario) you need to switch back and forth between windows. Not an impossibility, but a distinctly less convenint experience, when images are core to the conversation.
Re: IRC and #TAU. Maybe it would be worthwhile if someone wrote up a quick bot that follows the TAU thread here, and posts updates to the IRC channel? That would definitely "bridge the gap"
That's very true. However, I have sometimes seen modders ask artists for textures with an air of "you should be jumping at the chance to make textures for my mod." A little appreciation would go a long way.
I have no artistic talent. What an artist can do is Black Magic in my eyes. I actually feel a bit of dread knowing that I need to make a texture for an item/block, because I have no idea how to make something look good. That's why I'm insanely thankful for the artists that contribute to my projects because without them - my users would have stuff looking like crap.
So, please take this is my heart felt thank you to you guys. Without artists like you, my users would have crap to look at.
I've added some comments and questions to the What Texture Artists... thread.
My hope is we can try to salvage something out of the resource pack part of the competition. My thought is to either a> limit the "scope" of the pack (a particular theme, or a single mod up to the contestants choosing), and/or b> expand the length of time for the resource pack competition
10) If you want a good texture artist to make textures for your mod, you're going to have to prove that you actually have a mod (or are capable of producing one). You also should pay your artist. We're not free labor.
11) Making resource packs is just as worthwhile and important to the game as making mods. Most people use resource packs, INCLUDING modders and map makers. The game would not be the same without us, so stop pushing us off to the side like we don't matter. (I'm looking at you, Minecon.)
Re: #10 - I think that any party that contributes to a project should work out with the project owner what the terms of contributing to the project are. This can include license rights for the assets (for example, my mods are open source and I require that the art for the mod also conform to the license).
Regarding payment, I would say instead all parties should be up front regarding their expectations on what they get out of the collaboration. Feel free to refuse work that doesn't meet your expectations for what you get out of the deal.
#11 Sounds more like a gripe than something constructive to move forward with. Just as there are feelings here that modders think that resource packs are easy-peasy, it could be said that the opposite is felt on the other side. Why not just agree that depending on the project at hand, the amount of work varies, and that all work is valuable?
Maybe more a tip than anything else:
9. Realize texture artists work is just as hard, and sometimes creating textures can actually be harder work than modding depending on the complexity of the texture(s). It's just a different skill set, but hardly a "easier" one. Respect your artists the same way you'd respect your lead coders.
(This is coming from a Java programmer who knows both sides of the coin)
I boil this one down to just respect your peers. The artist works just as hard as the developer who works just as hard as the architect who works just as hard as....
We all work hard, and we all deserve not to have our work belittled or put down
Question 1: Thoughts on modders including "source files" for their base art assets? Reason I ask is that for myself, I try to include the GIMP files corresponding to each art asset that I include by default with the mod.
Question 2: Regarding textures that use multiple render passes. I have an item (root of them are located here https://github.com/pahimar/Equivalent-Exchange-3/tree/master/resources/assets/ee3/textures/items) that uses a few render passes to "build" the file product. This item is the Alchemical Bag. It has two "states" (closed and open) and each state has the bag portion of the texture, and then the drawstring portion of the texture. The item is dynamically coloured in game in much the same way as leather armor is (players can custom dye them to whatever they like). For this reason the default texture is meant to be white.
My questions are; (1) thoughts on this approach, (2) how would you expect modders to leave "notes" explaining the reasoning for why they went a particular way with an item, or what the item is meant to be? Would it help to hear the origin of the item, what "theme" its meant to follow?
I'm a bit concerned about the registration form.... you need a twitter account, and a repository is required even if you aren't in the mod competition? I couldn't see myself pushing textures to Github every 15 minutes (pushing at least 384 times?) considering I've not done this before, and now forgetting to do it in 15 minutes (which flies by when working) now DQs us.... plus it's usually painfully obvious when work is stolen, and the livestream/timelapse should be enough to show it's not pre-done.
Would this actually get into this competition, or are you saying that like "next time"?
The 15 minute commit is more so for the code side of things, where it's not always as clear cut where things are done before hand and what's. My own opinion is that's not as strigent for the resource pack side of things, but I'll clarify with the team and see if we can't put up some more clear instructions
Vanilla contains nearly 1000 graphics files, some of which still contain a lot of images. As others have already said that's way too much for anything but a long term project, unless you are happy with producing complete junk.
A specific subset of vanilla or a reasonable mod could make a much more reasonable competition. For instance "Vanilla Nether", or Vanilla Trees & Flowers" are in the ballpark of reasonable. On the plus side such entries would be much easier to showcase and judge.
I'll talk with the team and see if we can't agree on a smaller theme this time around. Hoping to get clarity on that quickly.
Never hard-code colors for anything. Have the mod pull the color from a .PNG so a texture artist can easily change it.
Avoid using the same texture for multiple things, even if that means you have the same image saved under different names. Vanilla for instance, uses the same cobble texture for cobble walls, switches, and cobble stone. That may work fine with the original low-res texture, but it throws a wrench in many plans for themed packs, HD packs and/or packs with a higher attention to detail.
When it is less than super-obvious it would be nice to have a section on your mod's page that explains what all the .PNGs are for. Sometimes, even with mods i've used a lot there are textures i've never seen in game, and i can't really tell what they are supposed to be.
The way you wrap a texture around an entity is very important. It should be logical and flexible, and generally avoid using the same segment in multiple places
Feel free to ask questions, & make requests in texture pack discussion. Credible modders rarely appear who can coherently explain what they want.
Good things to know I'll include them in my mod making tutorial series, so hopefully we can get these ideas/recommendations spread around.
Also, I thought I saw someone earlier concerned about a single artist being judged against teams of artists. In all categories, individual submissions are judged only against other individuals, and teams against teams. Otherwise, it's just not fair.
The problem is that, especially as vanilla Minecraft gets bigger, the time element to just finish a pack increases. A lot of us spend upwards a year just on vanilla. After that, adding mod support isn't appealing anymore because we're sick of our own projects and just want to move on.
As mods become bigger, the problem increases. FTB has far more texture space than vanilla MC. Once vanilla is done with, few people want to take on an even bigger workload. In addition, mod-makers are no kinder to us RP artists than Mojang is. There's a lot of wonky stuff that makes sense for the mod, but absolutely chokes creativity when it comes to resource packs. Very few modders make things with re-texturing in mind, and a few purposely make things so that they can't be re-textured further widening the gulf between the two sections of our fine community.
I wouldn't be opposed to limiting the scope of competitions. As a mod-maker, I'm always *dying* for artists to help with textures and sprites because by nature I'm a programmer and not an artist (and I don't think I'm alone in this).
We could limit the scope of texture packs to particular mods, or just vanilla. We could increase the length of time for the competition and offer more points for submissions made earlier than the deadline. I also think mod makers would also want to know what we can do to enable more customization for resource pack makers (I would for sure).
I'd like to add in here the issue I have with this most.
In all respective categories, you expect the makers to be skilled in these, right? Well, chances are, if they are, they have a project that got them to where they are, one that they have put in thousands of hours of work into.
And now the contest, they make something in 4 days, and if they win, it's sponsored or mentioned by Pahimar.....
Do you see where I'm going with this? Like me, I've worked on my own resource pack for over 2 years, and it's got jack-squat as far as fans, but I'm supposed to be happy about getting publicity for something I worked on for 4 days and will probably end up having little or no attachment to?
I'd find it much more rewarding if the first prize were "Authors' chosen creations & contest creation will be promoted by @Pahimar". So, say a group of 3 won, not only would the submission be promoted, but also the 3 resource pack artists' own resource packs. Also, 2nd and 3rd place win a game, but not first?
(I would be interested in something like this otherwise, but like Alvoria, my internet is slow so if I got streaming working it wouldn't be very good. plus I use Linux, which Twitch does not support (it's possible but a pain to get working))
I'm definitely not opposed to promoting the winners (the teams that "place") previous works. My goal is promotion of great content.
I've had someone approach me regarding "sponsorship" for more prizes, and I can look into that. I've held back on too many physical prizes since what I'm hoping for is a lot more interest in the various aspects of the competition - to drive more people into those areas so that even past the competition end date we had more people producing content then before.
I've been thinking about the future of the resource pack/map making side of things, because really the different categories should have different timelines/constraints to accommodate how each category has different challenges/etc to them. I regret that it's so little notice - it's little notice even for the mod side of things as well.
I plan to post a post-ModJam reflections after this weekend, and lay out some of my ideas for the next ModJam. I'd like to see robust competition in all the categories - the community benefits as a whole when we get sudden injections of new content
Edit: Thought this would serve as a good addition. I *love* texture packs, but I find it challenging to find a texture pack that does both the vanilla textures and some textures from the most common mods out there. Hopefully that's something we can maybe work on in future ModJams
The resource pack competition has existed since ModJam2. It's been brought back for this go around. The entire competition was announced just over a week ago itself.
We're hoping for some submissions this time around to get resource packs out to a user base that do not normally use them. If this sort of thing isn't desired/appreciated we can just simply not include resource packs as part of the competition in the future.
We can make improvements/accommodations next time around, but hopefully there will be a better response than just to criticize it because you don't know who is running it.
Edit: Regarding PMs/questions/feedback/critique. You are all welcome to contact me. Twitter is the fastest place to get a response from me, but I do check my MCF PMs as well.
Equivalent Exchange 3 will be released by December 25th, 2013 for whatever version of Minecraft has the most up to date version of Forge (likely MC 1.6.4 by how things look today)
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Um, let's see if I did this right.
This is a post to indicate that I would like to include Factorization in the Official ForgeCraft public modpack. I think we're covered in that a) novel builds using Factorization will be built on the Official ForgeCraft server (and by users of the modpack), and that any bugs/etc with the mod will be reported properly to mod developers.
If I did this wrong please yell at me neptunepink
To ensure that we are complying with the license, Vaygrim has put together a build video. Here you go!
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Also, I posted a version for MC 1.6.4
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Hopefully this change makes it more interesting for resource pack makers this time around, realizing we are right up to the deadline here
Next time around I promise some more "support" (for lack of a better word) in the resource pack competition!
0
Re: IRC and #TAU. Maybe it would be worthwhile if someone wrote up a quick bot that follows the TAU thread here, and posts updates to the IRC channel? That would definitely "bridge the gap"
4
I have no artistic talent. What an artist can do is Black Magic in my eyes. I actually feel a bit of dread knowing that I need to make a texture for an item/block, because I have no idea how to make something look good. That's why I'm insanely thankful for the artists that contribute to my projects because without them - my users would have stuff looking like crap.
So, please take this is my heart felt thank you to you guys. Without artists like you, my users would have crap to look at.
0
My hope is we can try to salvage something out of the resource pack part of the competition. My thought is to either a> limit the "scope" of the pack (a particular theme, or a single mod up to the contestants choosing), and/or b> expand the length of time for the resource pack competition
8
Re: #10 - I think that any party that contributes to a project should work out with the project owner what the terms of contributing to the project are. This can include license rights for the assets (for example, my mods are open source and I require that the art for the mod also conform to the license).
Regarding payment, I would say instead all parties should be up front regarding their expectations on what they get out of the collaboration. Feel free to refuse work that doesn't meet your expectations for what you get out of the deal.
#11 Sounds more like a gripe than something constructive to move forward with. Just as there are feelings here that modders think that resource packs are easy-peasy, it could be said that the opposite is felt on the other side. Why not just agree that depending on the project at hand, the amount of work varies, and that all work is valuable?
I boil this one down to just respect your peers. The artist works just as hard as the developer who works just as hard as the architect who works just as hard as....
We all work hard, and we all deserve not to have our work belittled or put down
Question 1: Thoughts on modders including "source files" for their base art assets? Reason I ask is that for myself, I try to include the GIMP files corresponding to each art asset that I include by default with the mod.
Question 2: Regarding textures that use multiple render passes. I have an item (root of them are located here https://github.com/pahimar/Equivalent-Exchange-3/tree/master/resources/assets/ee3/textures/items) that uses a few render passes to "build" the file product. This item is the Alchemical Bag. It has two "states" (closed and open) and each state has the bag portion of the texture, and then the drawstring portion of the texture. The item is dynamically coloured in game in much the same way as leather armor is (players can custom dye them to whatever they like). For this reason the default texture is meant to be white.
My questions are; (1) thoughts on this approach, (2) how would you expect modders to leave "notes" explaining the reasoning for why they went a particular way with an item, or what the item is meant to be? Would it help to hear the origin of the item, what "theme" its meant to follow?
2
0
The 15 minute commit is more so for the code side of things, where it's not always as clear cut where things are done before hand and what's. My own opinion is that's not as strigent for the resource pack side of things, but I'll clarify with the team and see if we can't put up some more clear instructions
I'll talk with the team and see if we can't agree on a smaller theme this time around. Hoping to get clarity on that quickly.
Good things to know
Also, I thought I saw someone earlier concerned about a single artist being judged against teams of artists. In all categories, individual submissions are judged only against other individuals, and teams against teams. Otherwise, it's just not fair.
0
I wouldn't be opposed to limiting the scope of competitions. As a mod-maker, I'm always *dying* for artists to help with textures and sprites because by nature I'm a programmer and not an artist (and I don't think I'm alone in this).
We could limit the scope of texture packs to particular mods, or just vanilla. We could increase the length of time for the competition and offer more points for submissions made earlier than the deadline. I also think mod makers would also want to know what we can do to enable more customization for resource pack makers (I would for sure).
I'm definitely not opposed to promoting the winners (the teams that "place") previous works. My goal is promotion of great content.
I've had someone approach me regarding "sponsorship" for more prizes, and I can look into that. I've held back on too many physical prizes since what I'm hoping for is a lot more interest in the various aspects of the competition - to drive more people into those areas so that even past the competition end date we had more people producing content then before.
0
I plan to post a post-ModJam reflections after this weekend, and lay out some of my ideas for the next ModJam. I'd like to see robust competition in all the categories - the community benefits as a whole when we get sudden injections of new content
Edit: Thought this would serve as a good addition. I *love* texture packs, but I find it challenging to find a texture pack that does both the vanilla textures and some textures from the most common mods out there. Hopefully that's something we can maybe work on in future ModJams
0
We're hoping for some submissions this time around to get resource packs out to a user base that do not normally use them. If this sort of thing isn't desired/appreciated we can just simply not include resource packs as part of the competition in the future.
We can make improvements/accommodations next time around, but hopefully there will be a better response than just to criticize it because you don't know who is running it.
Edit: Regarding PMs/questions/feedback/critique. You are all welcome to contact me. Twitter is the fastest place to get a response from me, but I do check my MCF PMs as well.
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Yes I do