Nice work Mystify! The cost of materials is going to vary person to person I think. I think realistically, someone might be able to invest a couple of d-picks and would like to choose the highest chance point rather than best efficiency.
-Freshmeat, that's a great link, you're right, it's all already done!
The point of the calculation is to show that even if you have a couple of diamond picks around, it can still be much quicker to mine for more diamond than to try to grind for more experience. The diamonds are linear, on average you can find them at a consistent rate. Experience is quadratic, and it can take a significant amount of effort to get even a single level. Having a couple of d-picks just means you have already invested some of the time, just as having 12 levels means you have already invested the effort to get them. The effort may have occured while you were doing other things, but the cost is still there.
Of course, the principle that you should always enchant with all of your levels still holds. To enchant with less is to underutilize your experience points. This is more about when you should stop collecting experience and go enchanting.
of course, everything changes if you can repair enchantments. Some people are saying that the enchantments disappearing when repaired is a bug. I haven't seen a precise quote to back it up,but I'm inclined to believe it, since I thought the entire point of repairs would be to maintain enchanted items. This would transform it from a temporary, expensive boost to a near-permanent bonus. If that is the case, you don't want the minimum effort to get a particular enchantment, you want the most kick-ass enchantments you can manage. But we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
What would be really helpful is if you found the optimal level for any given enchantment. I don't mean the level with the highest probability, I mean the best expected xp points(not level) to get it.
For example,
to reach any given level of experience, you need E = 3.5 * n * (n + 1).
if p(n) is the expected probability of getting the given enchantment at level n, then the optimal ratio is where
(3.5*n*(n+1))/p(n)
is the lowest.
so, using the oxygen on a diamond helmet example above, aiming for a oxygen 3,
That means if you want an oxygen 3 on a diamond helment, your best bet is NOT to get level 44, even though it has the greatest probability. level 33 has a better eep, and the sweet spot is probably off the graph.
If you want any type of oxygen, then at any level, we can add the probabilities of getting the various levels together, since they are mutually exclusive options, and then run the calculations. You can weight the various levels by their ranking in order to measure the added value of getting a higher level.
This shows that, experience-wise, you are better off enchanting few hundred diamond helmets with level 1 enchantments. However, this is not accounting for the cost of the helmet itself. so, eep is an important metric, but it does not tell the whole story. You have to account for the time required to get to the materials as well.
Let us assume that all of the precursor steps have been accomplished (starting a cow farm, mining down to the diamond layer, having a furnace ready to smelt iron, etc), so we only have the incremental cost of getting the next batch of materials.
I have done previous calculations to figure out the rate of mineral acquisition, and if we assume you are mining for the associated material in the most effective manner, you get the following figures:
Since we need to factor this in with the experience cost, we need a conversion rate. I'm not sure what that would be without doing some tests, but let us say that R = the xp/hour rate. So, eep/R = ehc(expected hours commited) for the experience.
1/p(n) * item cost(in units of material)/resource rate gives us the value of the base materials in the calculation.
so now we have
n=enchantment level
p(n) = the probability of getting the enchantment at level n
R = the xp/hour rate
i=item cost (3 for a pick, 1 for a shovel, etc)
m=material rate (given above)
E = expected hourly investment
((3.5*n*(n+1))R+i/m)/p(n) = E
However, even if it takes half the time to get a silk touch stone pick as a silk touch diamond pick, the diamond pick will last much, much longer, and be a better investment. Hence, we then divide E by a material value. This is based on their relative durability and speed/protection.
tools:
gold 1
wood 3.25
stone 7.2
iron 10.95
diamond 56.43
n=enchantment level
p(n) = the probability of getting the enchantment at level n
R = the xp/hour rate
i=item cost (3 for a pick, 1 for a shovel, etc)
m=material rate (given above)
v = material value
G = golden value
((3.5*n*(n+1))R+i/m)/(p(n)*v) = G
The golden value represents the the total ratio of effort to get the item and its worth, assuming a single enchantment. By finding the minimum value for any given enchantment, we learn what is the best material and experience level to acheive it.
E represents the easiest route to get the enchantment in the first place. If all you care about is getting a silk touch, and are not concerned with its total uses, E is the most important measure. Once we figure out the proper value of R, the formula is fairly simple to add to a spreadsheet and analyze the data with.
I'm assuming some people here know about the whole 'force-field made by minecarts' thing. I've been playing around and experimenting with it, and now, there is a radius of about 10 blocks around the minecart circle, in which, the player cannot move towards it. You are pushed back continuously, sprinting and jumping doesn't help at all. This could be integrated into a room made from bedrock making it impossible for a thief to get to eg: a door on the other side of the room, if said minecart track is on the other side of the door.
Need to think of a way for the owner to be able to actually get in though..
I would be very hesitant to rely on a glitch that could be fixed in any update.
A piston may be easy, but honestly it's a lot of work moving a single block with a single piston, since you also have to power the piston somehow (lever, redstone torch, etc). Pistons also require smelted iron, and redstone, which itself can only be collected by an iron pick. So The Piston may be easy, but it's not something you can do immediately.
My solution (to get grass in places where there is no grass to "spread" to nearby dirtblocks) is to gather up a bunch of dirt blocks, and draw a line of dirt from the nearest grass blocks, to where you want your grass to be, then simply wait for it to spread. Once one of your destination dirt blocks turns to grass, you can take back the "bridge" blocks. Grass can spread up or down, so a stairway can work to get grass to higher or lower surfaces.
Pros: requires no tools (you can punch dirt to collect it), requires no special ores or crafting or smelting. A piston requires some smelted iron ore, and redstone, as well as some cobblestone.. all three require tools to mine (the redstone actually requires an iron pickaxe to collect)
The first time I tried Hardcore, I was confused because I saw
no health bar, so I jumped into lava just to see whats wrong.
Seems in HARDCORE more the life bar is invisible.
Thats the only death in my statistic, other than that I m doing
fine, even in hardcore. Since I know the world will be lost once
I die, I skipped the building part and just went exploring.
I have to admit its quite fun, entertaining during the day and
adrenalin rushing during the night. Anyone who decides to sleep
over the night is a major wimp. Don't run on trees or hide inside
2x2 corners and wait for nighttime, live a little.
LIVE FAST DIE YOUNG heheheheh
Before hardcore came along I was constantly playing my own survival
map, always building and always on peaceful, but now every once in
a while I switch to do some monster hunting. I kinda got used to it
so much I gave up on my peaceful button and went NORMAL dificulty on
my regular survival world.
Your texture pack is incomplete. The hearts look different in hardcore mode, so if you have a improper texture pack, the health bar isn't visible.
Hello i think someone invented that befor me but i know how to make a unbreakabel vault with combanation lock or what ever you want :smile.gif:
= air = bed = bedrock = you will weak up here = redstone = lever = water
:tongue.gif: = piston facing down :tongue.gif:
when you go to sleep in this bed you will weak up inside the bedrockwalls... BUT if you let water flow there you will spawn ON the bed so you can easiely make a piston system which lets water flow to the weakup-point or block it ,
Boat phasing here too. if the wall is like that, I'm pretty sure you can phase through it. Nice try though.
While messing around on my server I found that on the Minecraft vanilla server if you logout in an inaccessible space when you log back in you are teleported to the next accessible space above you. I believe this is why we build the vaults at void level so people can't use this exploit to get in.
I have taken this "feature" and used it to create a vault that creates the space to be teleported up when unlocked by retracting a piston. If the piston is not retracted the player will be teleported outside the vault.
Here is the world that contains the vault for you to test:
This only works on the vanilla server so don't even both trying it on single player.
To get inside the vault, flip the switch to unlock the vault then stand facing the piston and flip that switch. After the piston has retracted re-log and you should be inside the vault. If you are above the vault then you didn't unlock it.
I hate building at the void level, its dark and annoying to dig to it therefore I have built this test vault at sea level however test assuming you are at void level.
The wall could be thicker or filled with lava, it makes no difference to the design of the vault. I made it 2 thick but there's no lava.
The vault ceiling is low enough that a portal will be unable to be constructed inside.
The vaults floor area could be as big as you want, I just made it small for testing purposes.
This idea was considered a long time ago. I forget why it was rejected though.
Except a griever could tunnel through your netherbrick. And how easy is it to reset the whole thing? Vechs' trap is meant for one time use, the vault isn't.
@Mystify: that needs reloading, and I would prefer a method that doesn't require manual resetting. Though that is indeed just my preference, and not required in any way for a working vault. However, since some portals need to be shut down directly after exiting, TNT might not be the safest way. Anyway, I'll try and use it in a design.
Regards,
Korot
I agree, its not ideal, but it should be workable. I suggest trying to work the timing so the TNT is released before you leave, so the explosion occurs right after exiting. that should help with the "shut down directly after exiting" aspect.
I did, in the last post on the previous page: You can't use redstone mechanisms to deactivate portals, because you can't use a bucket of lava/water. You can still turn one on remotely, just not off.
You can jump up it like a normal 1x1 block staircase, without any solid blocks. Its main uses are aesthetics. One big limitation is that it only works on a diagonal. IF you put it straight, the water will flow into the lower ones and knock the lillypads off.
step 1:
place dummy blocks diagonally up, one block below where you want the end staircase to be.
step 2:
destroy a cross under each block. This will keep the water from spilling everywhere.
step 3:
place a water source block on top of each dummy block
step 4:
destroy the dummy blocks, leaving the water
step 5:
place a lilypad on top of each water source block
That's my YouTube video.
There would be redstone combination locks where the levers are if it were the actual thing. This is just a demonstration.
*dumps water in hole*
bye bye vault
and hence it does not meet the requirements. This has been discussed early one, and decided to not be a viable method.
Bravo. Idk why ppl put up with notches ********. They say "oh, it's meant to be that way..." Which is an excuse and another way of saying notch is to cheap and lazy to hire another dev to fix things and implement on time or do it himself.
Sadly I found out just how terrible minecraft's end result would be a couple of weeks after I purchased it. I wish I would have pirated it.
And people who say it's still in development, keep dreaming. Their will be no more major updates.
This is not the end result, so judging it by that metric is silly.
0
The point of the calculation is to show that even if you have a couple of diamond picks around, it can still be much quicker to mine for more diamond than to try to grind for more experience. The diamonds are linear, on average you can find them at a consistent rate. Experience is quadratic, and it can take a significant amount of effort to get even a single level. Having a couple of d-picks just means you have already invested some of the time, just as having 12 levels means you have already invested the effort to get them. The effort may have occured while you were doing other things, but the cost is still there.
Of course, the principle that you should always enchant with all of your levels still holds. To enchant with less is to underutilize your experience points. This is more about when you should stop collecting experience and go enchanting.
of course, everything changes if you can repair enchantments. Some people are saying that the enchantments disappearing when repaired is a bug. I haven't seen a precise quote to back it up,but I'm inclined to believe it, since I thought the entire point of repairs would be to maintain enchanted items. This would transform it from a temporary, expensive boost to a near-permanent bonus. If that is the case, you don't want the minimum effort to get a particular enchantment, you want the most kick-ass enchantments you can manage. But we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
0
All you need is a breif gap, and you can plug it with something unpushable.
0
For example,
to reach any given level of experience, you need E = 3.5 * n * (n + 1).
if p(n) is the expected probability of getting the given enchantment at level n, then the optimal ratio is where
(3.5*n*(n+1))/p(n)
is the lowest.
so, using the oxygen on a diamond helmet example above, aiming for a oxygen 3,
level 20, 2.5% chance
(3.5*20*21)/.025 = 58800 eep (expected experience points)
level 30, 25% chance
(3.5*30*31)/.25 = 13020 eep
level 33, 31% chance
(3.5*33*34)/.33 = 11900 eep
level 44, 55% chance
(3.5*44*45)/.55 = 12600 eep
That means if you want an oxygen 3 on a diamond helment, your best bet is NOT to get level 44, even though it has the greatest probability. level 33 has a better eep, and the sweet spot is probably off the graph.
If you want any type of oxygen, then at any level, we can add the probabilities of getting the various levels together, since they are mutually exclusive options, and then run the calculations. You can weight the various levels by their ranking in order to measure the added value of getting a higher level.
so, for example
level 1, 2.5%
(3.5*1*2)/.025 = 280 eep
level 5, 7.5%
(3.5*5*6)/.075 = 1400 eep
level 10, 15%*1 + 2.5%*2 = 20%
(3.5*10*11)/.2 = 1925 eep
This shows that, experience-wise, you are better off enchanting few hundred diamond helmets with level 1 enchantments. However, this is not accounting for the cost of the helmet itself. so, eep is an important metric, but it does not tell the whole story. You have to account for the time required to get to the materials as well.
Let us assume that all of the precursor steps have been accomplished (starting a cow farm, mining down to the diamond layer, having a furnace ready to smelt iron, etc), so we only have the incremental cost of getting the next batch of materials.
I have done previous calculations to figure out the rate of mineral acquisition, and if we assume you are mining for the associated material in the most effective manner, you get the following figures:
24 diamonds/hour
138 iron/hour
28 gold/hour
6000 stone/hour
Since we need to factor this in with the experience cost, we need a conversion rate. I'm not sure what that would be without doing some tests, but let us say that R = the xp/hour rate. So, eep/R = ehc(expected hours commited) for the experience.
1/p(n) * item cost(in units of material)/resource rate gives us the value of the base materials in the calculation.
so now we have
n=enchantment level
p(n) = the probability of getting the enchantment at level n
R = the xp/hour rate
i=item cost (3 for a pick, 1 for a shovel, etc)
m=material rate (given above)
E = expected hourly investment
((3.5*n*(n+1))R+i/m)/p(n) = E
However, even if it takes half the time to get a silk touch stone pick as a silk touch diamond pick, the diamond pick will last much, much longer, and be a better investment. Hence, we then divide E by a material value. This is based on their relative durability and speed/protection.
tools:
gold 1
wood 3.25
stone 7.2
iron 10.95
diamond 56.43
armour:
gold : 1
iron: 2.13
diamond: 8.55
leather: .455
so, putting it all together:
n=enchantment level
p(n) = the probability of getting the enchantment at level n
R = the xp/hour rate
i=item cost (3 for a pick, 1 for a shovel, etc)
m=material rate (given above)
v = material value
G = golden value
((3.5*n*(n+1))R+i/m)/(p(n)*v) = G
The golden value represents the the total ratio of effort to get the item and its worth, assuming a single enchantment. By finding the minimum value for any given enchantment, we learn what is the best material and experience level to acheive it.
E represents the easiest route to get the enchantment in the first place. If all you care about is getting a silk touch, and are not concerned with its total uses, E is the most important measure. Once we figure out the proper value of R, the formula is fairly simple to add to a spreadsheet and analyze the data with.
0
I would be very hesitant to rely on a glitch that could be fixed in any update.
0
I'm doing that right now. It takes a while.
0
Your texture pack is incomplete. The hearts look different in hardcore mode, so if you have a improper texture pack, the health bar isn't visible.
0
I'm not very well versed in the intricacies of boat phasing. Look at the earlier pages and see what the discussion about it came up with.
0
Ah yes, that was it. You couldn't seal it against boat phasing.
Boat phasing here too. if the wall is like that, I'm pretty sure you can phase through it. Nice try though.
0
This idea was considered a long time ago. I forget why it was rejected though.
0
I agree, its not ideal, but it should be workable. I suggest trying to work the timing so the TNT is released before you leave, so the explosion occurs right after exiting. that should help with the "shut down directly after exiting" aspect.
0
You can TNT a portal shut.
0
0
You can jump up it like a normal 1x1 block staircase, without any solid blocks. Its main uses are aesthetics. One big limitation is that it only works on a diagonal. IF you put it straight, the water will flow into the lower ones and knock the lillypads off.
step 1:
place dummy blocks diagonally up, one block below where you want the end staircase to be.
step 2:
destroy a cross under each block. This will keep the water from spilling everywhere.
step 3:
place a water source block on top of each dummy block
step 4:
destroy the dummy blocks, leaving the water
step 5:
place a lilypad on top of each water source block
0
*dumps water in hole*
bye bye vault
and hence it does not meet the requirements. This has been discussed early one, and decided to not be a viable method.
0
This is not the end result, so judging it by that metric is silly.