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    posted a message on Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)
    Quote from EMDude

    Say again please? I don't understand what you plan to achieve by your sarcasm, but you seem to fail to see the point. The lack of variety exists in the mountain biome that we currently have. The mountains in the previous terrain generator was never meant to be realistic, but it did give a sort of variety that everyone loved and appreciated.

    Understand that in this case, that the previous "realistic" terrain was far more interesting and unique in terms of generation than the terrain gen we have now. And have you not played Beta 1.7.3? The terrain wasn't entirely mountainous; that would be ridiculous! It's sort of terrain that we used have then that we want, not a world that's one big mountain range.

    But would you really sacrifice variety and the unique topographical features of the old mountain gen, just for the fact that Minecraft is not a realistic game? In this case, I and many others would rather have the old mountains. You don't seem to get it but we are asking for variety too, in this case, with the mountainous terrain!


    Sorry, I often get so damn frustrated by people using completely baseless arguments that I resort to sarcasm. The problem is that the sarcasm I use tends to just be their arguments, but slightly exaggerated. To me, it's amusing because what they say makes no bloody sense - to others, I probably seem like an insane person who changes their opinion every other page.

    In short; I'm on your side - it's just that my sarcasm is a little...off.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Has Jeb adressed the terrain generation?
    Quote from Bindal

    Nothing wrong with disagreements. Some people have problems how enchantment works and that's fine. I am also not 100% satisfied with the system. But do you see me going in every thread about enchantments and stating that it sucks? No, you don't. THAT'S the difference here.

    However, the "terrain-generation sux"-group IS nothing but whining. Whenever the terrain-generation COULD be brough up, at least one of them is garatueed to appear within the first three pages and say "whole terrain-generation sucks now!"


    Of course - since YOU don't go in every enchantment thread and say that enchanting sucks, it means that no one does. Likewise, since one or two people (I honestly haven't seen any) go into terrain threads and say it sucks, it means that the whole group of people who don't like the new terrain gen are whining. Also, presumably you mean terrain threads where people are not discussing whether they like or dislike the terrain - if it's valid for people to gatecrash a pro-1.0.0 terrain gen thread and say they don't like it, then it's equally invalid for you and the other pro-1.0.0 terrain gen people to gatecrash an anti-1.0.0 terrain gen thread and say you like it. Otherwise, I'm getting pretty friggin' sick of the pro-terrain people whining in anti-terrain threads.

    I'm sorry for disturbing you - I'll leave you to bask in the perfection of your opinions :rolleyes:
    Posted in: 1.0 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)
    Quote from EMDude

    There are forested mountains, snow-capped mountains, and mountains in deserts as well in real life!

    Case in point:

    Mountain in Carbon Country, Utah (Desert):

    Matterhorn, Swiss Alps (Snow):

    Adirondack Mountains, New York (Forest):

    And are you also sure about mountainous terrain in plains?

    Island in the Sky, Canyonlands National Park:


    Don't you know that all mountains IRL have no snow, no trees and all have a dull grey-green grass colour? And that all forests are flat with an occasional hill and it only snows on plains and in pine forests (certainly not birch or oak forests, that's for sure!). There sure as hell isn't such a place as the Appalachian Mountains (can't be - they must be made up since they have forests all over them!) or the Alps (they have snow on them!).

    Also, don't you understand that in a game which rose in popularity when generated flying islands and impossible landscapes were the norm; a game where skeletons attack you, creepers explode, water is infinite and gravity does not affect most blocks; in a game like that, we absolutely must strive for as much realism as possible.


    As for the person that insists on saying that there was less variation in terrain in 1.7.3, can you please point out to me where the snow capped mountains, forested mountains, snowy/forested mountains and beaches are in 1.0.0 (not to mention the variations of these - like mountains that have a grass colour other than zombie flesh)? Because I can point out plains, deserts, oceans (can't believe they're counted as a biome in 1.0.0, but not in 1.7.3), mountains, hills and marshlands (all - except deserts - with and without forests and/or snow) in 1.7.3. I can point them out in 1.0.0, but only the slightly hilly areas have forests and snow. The only new thing is the mushroom biome, which is very rare (and frankly, boring/ugly). Swamps aren't really new, they've just had vines added to them and the colour has been made hideous (along with the transitions).


    And for everyone who insists that Minecraft should be more flat to facilitate building - download the blank, flat map! Or, explore for all of a few minutes (yes, even in 1.7.3) and find a flat area. If 1.7.3 had big biomes like 1.0.0, it would have huge flat areas for you - that's really the only change that was needed for 1.7.3 terrain gen.

    As I've said before - I like areas with mountains, snow and pine trees. However, I don't come on here demanding that the whole map generation be mountainous, snowy pine forests - I act like a human being and ask for variety, so that everyone gets what they want. Not sure why people think that everything that they don't want should be removed from the game :huh.gif:
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)
    Quote from Primez

    No you are mistaken. My purpose was to contribute my thoughts about this subject, kiddo. Apparently having my own opinion results in some form of backlash. I am also curious to why you have joined a conversation that really wasn't directed at you. Did you feel a sort of urge to fight for the OP's bravado? If so, then that is pathetic.


    Bahahaha! A 17-year-old calling people kiddo! "Fight for the OP's bravado"! Where do you come up with this stuff? :laugh.gif:
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)
    Quote from Exelbirth

    Not much motivation to explore. I thought getting bored with your current location was always a great motivator for exploration.


    "I'm bored with these plains. I'm going to go and find some more plains." Is that what you mean? Pre-1.8 I could have understood you saying this - the terrain looked so different everywhere that moving on into another area which was the same biome type would have looked completely different. As it is now, you have the choice of 3 biomes that have trees, one biome that has mountains and the other biomes which have a whole heap of nothing.

    Quote from Exelbirth
    I've found plenty of landscape that I found interesting, turned into a base, got bored, moved on to the next.


    Well that's excellent for you. However, I and many in this thread haven't found landscape that we found interesting.

    Quote from Exelbirth
    The randomness of pre 1.8 might have looked interesting, but it was a pain to work with. I usually ended up with enough dirt to rebuild my entire base twice over using nothing but it.


    I could see where you were coming from if people only played Minecraft to build megastructures. However, many people like to explore. I find a nice place, build a tiny house and keep exploring. Minecraft stops being fun when exploration just finds you blank canvases - mountains that you have to plant trees on or huge plains that you have to build on.

    Quote from Exelbirth
    Plains not giving you enough wood? Find a forest, make a lumberjack shack. Not enough stone? Duh, you haven't been mining enough. Glass too easy to get with the desert biomes? What, you'd rather dig up your lone beach you used to spawn on and mess up your lovely landscape?


    I don't really know who you're talking to here: very few people have been complaining about a lack (or abundance) of building materials - when we say that there aren't trees, we aren't saying "there's not enough wood to build a nordic city", we're saying there aren't enough trees. Trees on mountains. Or valleys. Or anything that isn't a flat plateau.

    Quote from Exelbirth
    Also, if you don't think you have enough material to make a base, find a mountain, cover it with trees, then hollow it out. Basically a pre-made base.


    Yes, this is exactly what everyone's been complaining about! Everyone here's been saying "guys, we all play this solely to build things; so don't you wish there were more materials to build with". :rolleyes:


    I have a suggestion for you: download the flat terrain map and go into creative mode. All the resources you could want and none of those unsightly hills and trees to get in your way.

    I normally don't like to respond like this, but you seem to have missed the point so badly that I just couldn't stop myself.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)
    Quote from ChazDragoon

    i have a review video that shows this world (and a topic): http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/824831-minecraft-review/

    around the middle and near the end of the video (between 1:53 and 2:15,then around 4:15 and on) is where footage of that world is shown.

    Also, it might be to my advantage that i made this world during 1.9 i think...if that has any impact.


    From what I can tell, you're mostly in the extreme mountains biome. As I said, that's the best looking biomes in terms of terrain, but it never has forests or snow. That's not too much of an issue if you want to build and don't like snow, but if you want a 'natural' place to live, it's not so great.

    Take a look at the biomes listed in the wiki: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Biomes . The pictures for each biome there are pretty indicative of the biomes - there really isn't much variation nowadays. As you can see, the only biome with interesting terrain is 'extreme hills', while all the rest are either extremely flat or are quite flat with the occasional 2 to 7 block high hill and plateau. Also notice that only 'forest', 'taiga' and 'swamp' have more than 5 trees per chunk.

    The point is that biomes are extremely rigid now, where it's very much an either/or feel when it comes to desirable features (you either have good terrain or trees or snow or a beach, etc). So, those who like flat forests or crazy mountains without trees are quite satisfied and don't see why people would call it boring - others who want combinations of features of each biome are left wanting.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)
    Quote from ChazDragoon

    The colors do seem a bit less vibrant than before....but to call it boring? i dunno...my current map i play with my friends says otherwise. Maybe you're getting bad luck on the land generation OP?


    Could you post a screenshot (maybe even a seed)? I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I'm wondering if it's a difference in perception. I've generated dozens of worlds since the 1.0.0 release in the hope that I was just unlucky and getting boring worlds. As I said above (and from others seem to be saying) we're looking for terrain which isn't just either mountainous OR has forests OR has snow. We're looking for combinations of mountains, forests, climates, etc.

    If you have a world where you've got a biome with mountains and forests or mountains and snow or both, could you please tell me the seed? From the wiki it sounds like this is impossible, because the number of trees and whether a biome is flat or not is now what defines a biome.
    Posted in: Discussion
  • 3

    posted a message on Did the Terrain Become BORING? (UPDATE 6/5/13 - 1.7 is a biome update?)
    I'm a little confused that this isn't a bigger complaint: I mean, swamps look ugly, sure and there are a few bugs here and there, but BIOMES ARE ABSOLUTELY RUINED. Seriously, I can't even play anymore - I'm just so bored by the landscape. I like mountains with trees (regular, pines and birch) and snow. I can have either mountains OR snow OR trees. Awesome :sleep.gif:
    Seeds are completely pointless now - all they do is determine your spawn point. Might as well just use one seed and ask at the start if you want to start in the biome with trees, the biome with mountains or the other biomes with nothing in them.

    Has anyone tried tweeting jeb about this (I'm pretty sure Notch isn't working on Minecraft anymore)? To me, this is the single largest issue with Minecraft currently. Varied and crazy terrain was one of the greatest things about Minecraft pre-1.8. Now, Minecraft's terrain is more boring than in real life. Realism I could possibly stand (in a game with creepers and which originally became popular because of its crazy and interesting randomly generated terrain), but it simply isn't realistic to have no snow on any mountains, to have no trees (one tree per chunk doesn't count - I'm talking forests) anywhere where it snows, to have almost completely flat terrain everywhere except in one specific area which has huge mountains and nothing else.

    Some have said it's this way because of NPC villages - if that's the case, I'd much rather have no NPCs at all if it will bring back an interesting world.

    Please, can someone here who uses twitter contact jeb and link him to this thread or ask if he realises that Minecraft's terrain generation is horrible and boring now, and whether he intends to fix it? If Mojang think it's fine as it is and don't fix it, I honestly won't be playing anymore. Bring back variety and craziness or lose those of your customers who enjoyed (above ground) exploration, building in unique locations, searching for the best seed, admiring the views and even just doing other things in a world that didn't feel like a void.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on Anyone miss the old World Generator?
    I feel the same way as the OP. Honestly, I can't even play 1.0 because the terrain is just so boring. I like that biomes are much bigger now, but I absolutely hate how boring they are! Biomes shouldn't be so restricted - especially with regards to elevation and trees. I think that each biome should be able to have a varied landscape - plains should be a sub-type of a biome, as should mountains, instead of making them their own boring biome. For example, you should be able to find snow biomes with plains, hills, mountains, cliffs and ravines all in one (the same for forests, deserts, etc). Also, there should be a variety of trees in biomes, rather than one tree type per biome.

    I happen to prefer playing in snowy, pine tree-covered mountainous regions, so I really get no enjoyment out of this update: oddly enough, I just can't get into playing on a white-coloured parking lot with the occasional tree.

    So, if I were small-minded, I'd request that taigas be snowy biomes again and that they would have greater elevation changes. Since I like to believe I'm not small minded, I'm requesting that variety be added back in. The beauty of Minecraft used to be that it had such a large variety of biomes that I could find my mountainous, snowy pine forest; others, like those above me, could find their beach; others could find their rainforest; etc. Now, if you like mountains (honestly, who but megastructure builders like plains? Every biome except "extreme mountains" is a bloody plain!) you have to go to the extrem mountains biome. If you want trees, you'll have to plant them yourself. Want nicer-coloured grass? Too bad. Want snow? Too bad. Maybe you should check out the flat biomes for that :rolleyes:


    Would anyone happen to know if there's a way to have the new features of 1.0, but have the old terrain generation (any version will do; just not the 1.8/1.9/1.0 crap)? Or would anyone be able to recommend a biome mod or 3rd party world generator (one which generates old-version biomes; not those gimmicky sphere-world/light-tunnel/etc worlds)?
    Posted in: Survival Mode
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    posted a message on How 1.8 has affect my views of Mojang
    I honestly can't believe how dumb some people are.

    Clearly the OP said: "OMG NOTCH IS SO GHEY AND I HATE HIM AND HE OWES ME TEH WURLD". At least, that's what I'd think if I were a moron.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on How 1.8 has affect my views of Mojang
    Quote from Eddz0r
    You paid for the Game as it was. Not for the coming features.



    Quote from DeadMineCraft

    Agreed. You Confirmed the purchase, for the game as it was. You are freely given updates, with NO OBLIGATION to Update. This is YOUR choice. If you don't like the updates, THERE ARE sites that allow you to get other versions of Minecraft. You have to look for it. I can not tell you because it is illegal and against the rules.



    Quote from ColCabbage

    You are not entitled to anything, regarding Minecraft, from Mojang. You pre-ordered their game which didn't even have a release date until recently (which they made clear to everyone). The only reason you get to play is because they release beta updates to you out of the kindness of their hearts. For that matter you even get development updates from the lead designer himself, telling you his progress on the game. Feel lucky for all the things you have, not bitter for the things you feel you deserve.


    This is the mentality that I have too - when someone is using words like "I demand" or "I deserve" or "he owes me". HOWEVER the OP hasn't said that. He's stating what he doesn't like about the game and its progress/direction. Why do people take issue to the OP saying that he won't be 'suckered in again' (i.e. won't buy another Mojang game). Are you seriously arguing about the OP's right to NOT buy a game?? You guys are saying that the OP absolutely must buy other Mojang games?

    Or, is it just that you all lack even the most basic of reading comprehension and logic skills and keep thinking that the OP is demanding something of Notch? He's not threatening to sue or asking for a refund. He's saying that he doesn't like the direction of the game and the development of it, nor the way that it almost seems to be on the backburner for Mojang. And you know what? It's fine for Mojang to do that. It's their right. But it's our right as customers to say "I don't like that and I want Minecraft to be developed more professionally and in a more timely manner (having more than one person in a team of 5 working on it would likely help)". Mojang have the right to ignore that. Customers have the right to then not purchase another Mojang game for fear that it will be neglected after a while.

    Please, everyone calm down and stop with the "OMGZ YOU JUST HATE NOTCH" crap. Yes, some people are entitled douches, but the OP is not one of them. I understand that I paid for the version that I received way back when, and I tell people the same thing often when they demand something of Notch. However, just because I technically bought a previous version, it doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to be disappointed by the progress of current versions and to then form the opinion that I don't trust Mojang to develop games anymore, thus will not buy their other games at least until a full, working version is released.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on How 1.8 has affect my views of Mojang
    Quote from Xinkc
    Why does everybody forget about taxes? Sweden has a corporate tax of 26.3%, payroll tax of 31.42%, and an income tax around 57%.

    So, taking current data, they sold 10,522 for $21.95 in the past 24 hours. That means they earned $230,957.90. With corporate taxes that means how much the company keeps is about $172,844.89. They lose even more money because they have to pay a tax of 31.42% of each employees salary. Then said employee has an income tax that takes over half of what he earned away.


    Not sure what the income tax has to do with Mojang's taxes. In many countries the over $100k tax bracket is taxed more than 50%, so I don't see how that affects whether a programmer could be hired. Despite that, assuming that 90% of the money Mojang receives was taxed (an absurdly high value, but I'm making a point), they'd make $23,000 per day. In less than 5 days they'll have made enough money to pay for a high quality programmer for the whole year. They still have two days left in the week to earn $46,000, which should easily pay the rent and food for that week. I remember Notch mentioning that he has so much money that he doesn't even know what to do with it.

    So tell me, do the taxes really prevent them from hiring more people?
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on How 1.8 has affect my views of Mojang
    Quote from Mystify

    But releaseing a few days later is already causing an uproar, and that is to fix game-crippling bugs.


    Jeb already mentioned that snow biomes were planned to not be included in the update due to a lack of time. I don't see why they couldn't have just not ever set a tentative release date and then finished the update properly. Or even just release a small patch soon to add it back in and fix up the larger bugs.

    I still think they should be able to have had this update finished faster than they did, but I'd rather they'd take their time and make the update work. Now, instead, I have to wait for 1.9 just to get snow biomes back (and possibly to be disappointed by a host of other bugs and missing features). If this was the full version I would be shocked that something as serious as previous features being missing after a patch could happen, but since this is still in beta I guess I can't be too annoyed. Still, I wish they'd get their act together or just hire a team of programmers (not just one man like Jeb) to really move along the development. I honestly think they'd be better off hiring one of the better mod teams from the community to finish the game.

    I'm worried that the game's 'release' in November is going to be extremely underwhelming, with a few additions such as the inclusion of snow biomes (again) and actually putting NPCs in the NPC villages. Hell, given the time taken for this update, I'm a little concerned that NPCs might not even make it into the final build.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on How 1.8 has affect my views of Mojang
    Quote from Mystify

    Why do people act like the now biomes were a deliberately removed feature?


    Not sure who you're talking about, but if that's in response to my post, I said nothing of the sort. I'm well aware that they didn't have time to add snow biomes back in. However, I still think it's a pretty poor standard to set when your update is missing some of the features of the previous version. I'd rather he'd have released it a few days later with everything from 1.7.3 in it, plus the new stuff, instead of having to wait until 1.9 just to get back some of the basic features of the game.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on How 1.8 has affect my views of Mojang
    OP, I agree with you. I used to defend Notch/Mojang a lot (my previous posts likely reflect that). However, I've lost a lot of faith with this update. I'm extremely annoyed that snow biomes are gone and I'm disappointed that the update lacks a lot of polish. I'm wondering if only Jeb is working on Minecraft now - the progress made in this update is significantly less than the progress made in many of the various mods that have been created and released during the time between 1.7.3 and 1.8. As people have pointed out, Mojang are raking in approximately $200k a day, yet are being significantly outclassed and outpaced by many of the modding teams (and individual modders) who get nothing except sometimes a few small donations.

    I used to be fine with the slowed progress of Minecraft, because Notch was busy putting together Mojang and many other things. Even now, I'm happy for him to branch out into other games that he'd like to make. However, this shouldn't impact significantly on the development of Minecraft. If he needs more people, I can't imagine he'll have trouble finding extremely talented, hard-working programmers who will work a whole year for less than half of what Mojang makes in a day.

    I believe I've got my money's worth from what I initially paid (well, if I go back to version 1.7.3 at least), but I've not been left with a positive perception of Mojang. I am extremely disheartened at the talk of micro-transactions in Minecraft and I hope that Notch reconsiders. I'd certainly never be a customer of Mojang's again if they spent time creating a micro-transaction store without finishing the game first. Notch can go and make other games if he wants and I'll believe that it's because he is passionate about those games - but if he implements a micro-transaction store while raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars a day, I will be absolutely disgusted.

    I'm hoping that 1.9 will be released very soon and won't have any more previous features removed (like snow biomes). I liked Notch and Minecraft back when it seemed like a labor of love for Notch. Now I'm getting the feeling that it's his cash cow that he's going to keep on milking for as minimal effort as possible. I'm very worried about this new approach to 'development' (or lack thereof) and currently cannot see myself buying another Mojang game. I hope that I'm mistaken and everything will be set right soon.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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