Seeds Are Useless and Here's Why
(For those of you who do not want to read the whole thing - Read the spoiler below for the main points of the thread.)
WHAT WE WANT:
1. More interesting terrain; More breathtaking and jaw dropping land masses to appear more often then they currently do
2. We want extreme mountains and overhangs to have the possibility to neatly generate randomly in all biomes. We want neat, uniform, and NICE land masses to appear RANDOMLY in all biomes equally. (obviously excluding plains and swamps as well, of course)
3. The majority of cave systems and Mineshafts actually come to an end eventually, and appear less often. Seemingly endless caves should be a nice find.
WHAT WE DO NOT WANT:
4. We do not want chewed up and spit out eyesore terrain spammed all over the place - we want it to appear randomly and spaced apart to please players who like the wild terrain generations and the ones who like the flat lands for building.
5. We do not want the Terrain Generator from 1.7
WHEN WE WANT IT:
As soon as Mojang can get around to it!
1. More interesting terrain; More breathtaking and jaw dropping land masses to appear more often then they currently do
2. We want extreme mountains and overhangs to have the possibility to neatly generate randomly in all biomes. We want neat, uniform, and NICE land masses to appear RANDOMLY in all biomes equally. (obviously excluding plains and swamps as well, of course)
3. The majority of cave systems and Mineshafts actually come to an end eventually, and appear less often. Seemingly endless caves should be a nice find.
WHAT WE DO NOT WANT:
4. We do not want chewed up and spit out eyesore terrain spammed all over the place - we want it to appear randomly and spaced apart to please players who like the wild terrain generations and the ones who like the flat lands for building.
5. We do not want the Terrain Generator from 1.7
WHEN WE WANT IT:
As soon as Mojang can get around to it!
-- Edits --
The videos for this thread were removed without my knowledge. I did not remove them myself so I can only assume that it was a member of this forums' staff. Some of the paragraphs below might not make sense because of the lack of the videos, and for that I do apologize and hope that the point I am trying to get across here is not any less clear to you because of this poor excuse of moderation that has taken place.
My apologies.
-----
!!Important Update!!
I want to remind everyone - this thread is not asking for the 1.7 map generator back! That is the last thing we want! Honestly who wants floating islands of gravel and random jagged dirt and sand hills in the middle of a snowy plain? We're not nostaglics on a trip or a bunch of randoms missing the old map generation - we are simply supporting one cause: To add height variation to all biomes in the current terrain generator and to have caves sytems actually come to an end eventually, and appear less often (as well as mineshafts)
And as it remains a sad fact that Minecrafts current terrain generation focuses on nothing but realisim - there is no excitement. Everything is flat, and thus renders seeds useless. I'd also like to note that we are not idiots; we are aware that you can run into some interesting land masses with the current generation but it's a lot rarer then it was pre 1.8 - we simply want more breathtaking and jaw dropping land masses to appear more often then they currently do! We want them to appear in all biomes, and not limited to only extreme hills and jungle biomes. We want amazing overhangs, cliffs, mountains and the like to appear in all biomes and we want things to be less predictable and repetitive. So please, have a little respect as we would respect your opinion if you feel differently then us. Do not accuse us of being nostaligic or for wanting a complete overhaul of the 1.7 terrain generator back itself as this would just silly (Instead we would like certain aspects and features of this terrain gen to be implemented into the current terrain gen!)
I know what you're probably thinking: What the hell is this kid on about? And I don't blame you for thinking that, but bear with me for a moment and hear me out. Be open minded and not so quick to flame/troll 
Think of a Minecraft where you share seeds, not for finding cool villages, or for never ending ravines, or the overabundance of abandoned mineshafts (which are more common then one may think), but for finding marvelous mountain ranges, breath-taking oceans of hills and beautful springs and waterfalls, gigantic overhangs over looking fields of flowers, and floating islands surrounding a valley of jungles. This may all seem drastic: but very possible.
Before for the 1.8 update of Minecraft - the terrain generation was wild, unpredictable, and exciting to explore. Ever since 1.8, the amazing and breathtaking land features have just vanished altogether. You do not have to take my word for it as this is a very wide and fast growing issue amongst all Minecraft players and the issue is gaining support quickly.
More to the point, seeds are now useless because ever since the 1.8 update - Minecraft maps are all exaclty the same! There's no diversity, no variety in land formations; it's all similar. What is the point in sharing seeds when every seed is basically the same map?! Again, I know this may seem over exaggerated, but just compare these two videos to one another - and then try to tell me there's not a difference?
Now take a look at this video of the top 8 seeds of 1.2.4 and 1.2.5 and tell me how the terrain on these two even compare to pre 1.8? Sure the jungles, ravines, villages, mineshafts are neat an all, but I remember when seeds were shared not because "I spawned next to an NPC village" but because "I spawned on top of a 200 block tall mountain surrounded by small islands of gravel". Seeds were shared for landscape rather then structure generation.
You will even notice a clip in this video titled "This seed has weird looking mountains and a jungle" and just look at those mountains compared to some of the ones in the first video, and then try to tell me the seeds haven't changed?
Sure there are some interesting land formations in this one, (well in seeds 1 and 2 at least) but look at the rest of the surrounding land. How's it look? Flat? Plain? ordinary? Dull? .. Yup!
Why can't we have pre 1.8 map generation style implemented into modern Minecraft. Why can't we have a more diverse, wild, and unpredictable land generation in Minecraft?
So I challenge you, Minecrafters, to prove me wrong. Show me images videos of some wild, diverse, and unpredictable land masses in Minecraft. Show me that I am wrong. I challenge you to prove to me that the Minecraft terrain generation has changed for the better. You may say "It's more realistic" but how often do you find yourself exploring "realistic landscapes"? There's no fun in it anymore when the best you have to find lies in that one seed on that one video on youtube.
Do you find yourself often getting bored and actually wanting to go mining? How often before 1.8 did you ever want to go mining? My money's on almost never, am I correct? With the new terrain, sure you may be able to build a simple house, but you will never have the opprotunity to watch the sunset on a massive cliff over hanging a giant ocean with small islands surrounding you again. Unless you stand up and do something.
Every voice makes a difference and if we all speak loud enough eventually Mojang will hear. If all of Minecraft would stand up and say "We want a diverse terrain generation" Mojang will hear. Don't be afraid to speak your mind, everone may call you a nostalgic, they may tell you it hasn't changed, but anyone who was around before 1.8 could tell you easily that the maps just aren't the same anymore. If you disagree, think about it again, If you still disagree, think about it one more time. You are not nostalgic, you just want a newer, diverse and wild terrain. You want variety in your biomes, and that's nothing to be ashamed of!
This is something I am very passionate about as exploring used to be my number one thing I loved to do in Minecraft until 1.8. Until recently, I thought I was the only one who thought the terrain was dull and repetitive. That was until I found a movement on the MCF of players who are in the same boat as I. I am not alone in this, and neither are any of you. Together, if we all speak up, we can make a difference. We can give seeds a reason to be sought out. We can give players exciting and fun places to visit not just "Hey, you can spawn on top of an NPC village" that gives you a whole 5 seconds of "oh, cool" then what? More mining?
For those picky and irritable minecrafters : This thread isn't asking for a total dramatic change and complete re-installation of pre-1.7 terrain gen.. just at least some tweaks to make the current terrain generation wild and diverse.. at least a few random mountains and amazing land structures to come across.. not a COMPLETE change, just some minor tweaks is all we ask.
: This thread isn't asking for a total dramatic change and complete re-installation of pre-1.7 terrain gen.. just at least some tweaks to make the current terrain generation wild and diverse.. at least a few random mountains and amazing land structures to come across.. not a COMPLETE change, just some minor tweaks is all we ask.EDIT:
Let's not forget the over abundance of ocean. On a map I was exploring today I literally flew 50,000 blocks over nothing but pure ocean. God strike me dead if I am lying. It is ridiculous the amount of ocean in the map generation these days. We don't want realistic oceans, just like we don't want realistic flat land. Fix this, Mojang, please!
---------- Our Supporters ----------
Support Count: 500+ (Moved to poll)
1.8 has turned almost every cave into a massive and endless underground swiss-cheese complex. Yes, they are really awesome to explore, but I miss exploring FOR caves. Now it's like once you find a cave, you're set for life. It's like the terrain was focused on forcefully expanding the underground world.Quote from ChaosGuardian
Seeds are now also useless in determining cave sizes. In 1.7 and before, we'd get small, medium, large, and seemingly endless caves. Now we're forced to explore caves in only one size -- seemingly endless.
Every small hole you find turns into 2 caves, which turns into 4 caves, and then there's entrances off in every direction and it gets damn annoying.
Quote from Bmoz
i agree with this, the land is boring...
ever since biomes appeared minecraft got worse
now i have to keep spawning worlds to get a decent place to build, and then usually its still boring
there isnt a reason to explore the world and the mountains are nothing
(i also liked when pumpkins were more of a trophy and limited and what u use them for now is stupid)
Quote from Poketracket
Honestly... I saw this thread and couldn't believe it! I love the new biomes! They are pretty cool though not much to explore but I'm ok with that. Then I opened that Remember Before 1.8 Seeds... Honestly I almost cried! I remember all those great seeds and they put the new ones to shame...*sheds tear of sadness* I'm a believer! Praise the lord!
By the way, don't forget to repost this please! More people need to see this! You have gone into depth what the problem is and how to fix it!
Quote from Redyoshi101
I totally agree with this. Here, however, is some elaboration as to WHY all the seeds are the same:
In 1.8 and later, the seed generates the BIOMES first, and then uses a chunk of code to determine terrain for that specific biome. Since the code is the same every time it generates it, it results in every biome, and therefore every seed, looking almost exactly the same.
Here is how it should work:
The seed should generate the terrain first. Totally regardless of biome. Then, there should be a chunk of code that looks at the terrain and generates biomes according to terrain - as opposed to terrain according to biome. After all, there are only so many biomes, but the terrain combinations are endless.
Further elaboration for techies:
The seed should generate terrain and caves. Random height variation with only a very small amount of predetermined things, e.g. large height variation and some flatter spots. Also, for large areas below sea level, generate flat spots around that area.
Then, when biomes are chosen, it goes something like this:
- Extreme hills and mountain biome is chosen when there are very large terrain height fluctuation above sea level.
- When large flat spots are found, generate either a plains biome or desert biome. In the case that it generates a desert biome, replace dirt with sand and the first layers of stone with sandstone.
- If large areas below sea level are found, ocean biomes are made and the area around it is turned into either sand, gravel, or stone (new beach).
- For slightly hilly areas, either leave it be (generate lots of flowers) or generate trees on it for a forest biome.
- Etc...
- Then, after that, generate mushroom islands, villages, dungeons, pyramids, and ravines.
Ok, that was off the top of my head.
Quote from natdog027
i agree with this cause 100% before 1.8 i played minecraft heaps but now i hardly ever play it, the terrain just seems so boring and realistic. i thought minecraft was a fantasy game but theres no fantasy in current terrain. i play games to get away from my boring repetative life not to be reminded of it. also under the supports there should be a list of all the supporters IMHO
Quote from tommy0702
1:one reason I don't like the new generator is because of th caves. It's like mojang built minecraft assuming you'd spend 95% of ur time under ground! 2:why I hate the new seeds is u can spend an hour typing in numbers, and have no Luck on a place yo build ur house. And once I did just that.3:I've been hiking a lot, and and I've seen from deserts in Arizona to waterfalls in California. There was a lot of verity. Theres none of that in the new genrator4: intoo, nearly cried when compared the two seed videos!
Quote from Quaternary
I cannot agree more. I loved the generation of wild landscape in previous versions. You even got me totally at the "wanting to go mining" part. I used to enjoy walking around and risk having to build emergency shelters at nightfall just to try to see as much landscape in a world as I could, and now I can even expand bases outward at 5 blocks per day until I have a small village and feel no urge to go any further out. Everything since the Adventure Update has made the game much more complicated and interesting, but I believe other aspects of the game are to be preserved as well.
So yes, add me to the supporter list if you will please.
Quote from Diblie
For some time now my friends have been giving up minecraft saying "It's not the same anymore, we've run out of things to do." and i believe this is a very pivotal reason. The lack of changing terrain has lead to monotonous builds and has given minecraft what i had for so long believed was impossible: A norm. With terrain generation remaining the same on nearly every map, it gives a rather 'stale' quality to a game which is supposed to be completely open ended with infinite possibilities, both with what you do and with what the world gives you. The same set of biomes can only be played differently so many times and although the "realistic" terrain generation was wonderful around the time it was new (1.8+), it's proven to be cumbersome rather than enjoyable. Before 1.8, terrain was ALWAYS different and unexpected, finding a cool mountain wasn't a regular thing, so it was nice to be able to build a huge fort into it. Now, extreme hills biomes are nearly uniform and offer no interesting or exciting features with which to entice the player other than height.
I hope this gains ground and this is the only movement i've agreed with enough to read through, nonetheless post in.
Quote from awesomeness04
This thread is a total win. It could not be more true and elaborate. Our old terrain generation brought wonder before our eyes. We scavenged all we could and took every cave we could find. Now we are overloaded with caves, mineshafts, and ravines. It's terrible.
Minecraft used to be place full of life. Full of adventure. You could live under an overhang like a troll or carve yourself into one of the many floating islands for the best view. You could make a minecart roller coaster head through an entire canyon and over the skies. The generation made many shapes from arches to tops. It just isn't like that anymore. Now we have boring flat planes and boring endless oceans. You can't live in the dream land anymore. It's all too realistic now, with plain old hills and stupid little mountains and ravines. Since when is minecraft realistic? We have creepers and magical dust. Minecraft is not realistic. Let it not be."
Quote from Vechs
Could also fix this issue by introducing new biomes.
Extreme Mountains
Extreme Mountain Jungle
Extreme Mountain Tundra
Terramorphic (This one would have extreme overhangs)
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For those of you having a hard time understanding what I mean when I say height variation - maybe my friend Chaos can help you to better understand:
Quote from ChaosGuardian
People often imply that if the height variation we're talking about would return, there'd be no room to build. Despite it being fairly easy to build on the previous generator, and that you were sometimes forced to terraform (a challenge in the game that's not present anymore) giving you resources while you made land suitable for building, the mass amounts of flat land found in 1.8 would NOT disappear.
Variation means that the terrain has the chance to be A, B, C, X, Y, Z, etc. When we say height variation, we do not mean "spam every region with mountains." However, if height variation does return, having an area or multiple areas within a seed or multiple seeds that is spammed with mountains will be extremely possible, but so will be the chance of finding mass amounts of flat land, or hilly land (or mixed!) under the same circumstances. I don't see why some people are disagreeing with this. It will NOT REMOVE flat land, but it will give every area in every seed the chance to be something unique.
Why not just use mods?
Why do we not use mods?
Mods are a temporary fix to a long-term problem. Most of the terrain altering mods out there do not even live up to the standards that are put forth in this thread. They all are attempts to bring back 1.7 map generation into the current terrain. If you're asking Isn't this what we want? No, and this means that you did not read the full thread. So please go back, re-read the thread, and then re-post.
What we want done to the terrain is have it tweaked to add more height variety per biome. We want the structures and everything that was added since 1.8 except for the flat, dull, boring land. Mods do not fix this as they create ugly jumbled up and chewed up land masses all over the place (Which those types of land masses can also be neat if harnessed and used correctly by mojang.)
Did not know that? Re-read the thread, and re-post.
So for those of you who keep coming on here advertising different mods that we can use: 45 people have mentioned the same thing before you: so do not bother as it will not silence us. We feel the current map generation needs to be altered to satisfy all of Mojangs player base not just 25% (and yes those numbers are accurate .. the poll for this change is at 75% yes and 25% no) Did not know that? Simple.. Re-read the thread, and then re-post.
If you support this article & would like to show your enthusiasm about reviving the good terrain of Minecraft, click the green +1 at the bottom right of this post and let me know 
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