I don't expect to change your mind, rather just point out that what Notch is doing is not as stupid as you seem to think. You're entitled to think that this isn't the best way to implement it, and if you choose to share that with others then you have to expect that people will disagree and want to state their opinion why they do. To me it seems that you are the one being defensive since you posted an opinion on a discussion thread and then start whining that people are discussing your idea!
Now I don't think it's stupid. I was just saying, I don't think it's the best way. And I do, but saying stuff like "The fact that you find a goal (which is entirely optional) will ,once completed, remove value from the rest of the sandbox boggles my mind" Is a little more than stating their opinion. And that was what I was attempting to do. I am not whining, for one thing, I was just doing what everyone else is doing. I mean if that's whing, I could say you are whinging now...
But seriously, I said my opinion, then we went back and forth in the same manner. You cannot possibly say I did something wrong, or "whined" without saying you did the same.
Edit: Slight error in previous post, I meant to say :
"You aren't going to change my opinion, and I am not going to change yours." The error made that sentence sound far more aggressive than I intended it too. And as for "defensive" thing, I wasn't so much including you, in that, if that changes anything.
What narrative? Notch has not mentioned any narrative and my point still stands, you can completely ignore doing any mission/quest and just do whatever you want in any other sandbox style game. The only difference being instead of building stuff with a map editor in other games you can directly build stuff in minecraft.
Besides that fact, yes, you still are making sweeping assumptions because of some vague remarks that have ultimately not been substantiated beyond "Notch said this might happen". The idea was floated as an idea, with no real detail. Claiming that it means there will be a narrative (aka story) and in the same breathe say that this story will be detrimental (also an assumption as well as being completely subjective) to the feel of a game with literally no content beyond "smack some mobs/blocks, get stuff" is laughable. More options in the sandbox only enriches the sandbox because no one is going to force you to do anything.
No goal can invalidate your builds or has any bearing on them at all. The goals that may (and I mean may because we have no idea what they will be) be added will have no effect on the way you play unless you chose that they do. The only way an endgame can affect you at all is if you choose to do it! Your essentially arguing that having any form of endgame will force you to meet that endgame! Somehow after you've made this choice your worlds become useless? Then don't make that choice?
This whole mindset that anything that doesn't conform to your expectations is automatically bad just irritates me.
Wow... :blink.gif:
Ok, well I am gonna say this, as simply put as I can...
The narrative of the idea that Notch was talking about. Oh, what? That is just a floating idea? He wasn't saying it was set like that? I KNOW, and that is why i was just talking about the stuff he said. Which was one of his ideas for the Narrative. Being Kill the big thing by finding artifacts. He even used the words "Win the game"! And wouldn't you call that a narrative?
And if you actually read my first post, which I cannot imagine you did, either that or you have a complete lack of any comprehension skills when you read, and if that is the acse, I truly am sorry, you would see, that I was saying, that I want to be able to fight this thing multiple times without starting a new world. And based on Notch said (Yes, small, yet rational assumptions) it doesn't sound like that idea, makes that possible.
And while maybe it wont affect the actual building, (though it may) it will cause that world to be "complete". Which is a thing I don't want.
Now, do all people feel this way? No. Do I care? No, I, much like you, have an opinion I was attempting to share it. Do I still want the update? Absolutely. Would this ruin the game? No.
All I am saying, is in my opinion, there is a better way to handle "bosses", than the idea notch said. Preferably random. But, that is just me.
And ME intolerant of the other way!? ME?! You are seriously joking, right? This whole time I've been stressing this was Just my OPINION! And everyone gets one, and unfortunately, that includes you.
You're still making sweeping assumptions about how that specific idea could be implemented. The fact that you find a goal (which is entirely optional) will ,once completed, remove value from the rest of the sandbox boggles my mind. I suppose you dislike GTA/Red Dead Redemption and other sandbox games with an overarching goal to them?
No I am not! I am going just on his words. And as I said, I am only talking about that specific idea he laid out.
No, I do not. The reason? THEY AREN'T MINECRAFT. Completely different. GTA didn't start out a crazy purely sandbox game people played for a year, then suddenly get a narrative. Minecraft, is so far from being either of those games, it is stupid to even try and compare them like that!
EDIT:
There are very few games where you can continually do the same mission over and over again in the same save, so why should minecraft be any different? You play an RPG and you spend say 10+ hours building up your character and then you do the final mission and then thats it, the game is pretty much over.
Yes, but Minecraft is completely different than 99% of all games. You shouldn't attempt to compare it to "what you do in this game" because there are no other games like minecraft.
And I don't even know why you all are being so defensive, You are not going to change my opinion, and especially not by saying "Well you can't do that in this game". That is why I play minecraft, because it isn't like those games. I don't want it to be like those games, I just it to be minecraft. And a narrative, and "winning" does NOT sounds like minecraft.
That makes a lot of assumptions about how he will do it. What said there would only be a single boss? Last I new, the "Giant boss" at the end was just an example of the endgame. We have no idea what he is planning, what is involved in getting to the point, how much gameplay would be between here and there, the repeatability of the boss, the existence of mini-bosses... Your complaint only applies to a specific combination of these elements. All too often, I see notch mention a new addition, and people always assume the worst possible implementation.
Well I was just talking about monsters, and how I didn't like the idea, the way he was talking about it there. SO yes, I am making assumptions, and ONLY talking about the idea he proposed. And about assuming the worst possible implementation; there are much worse than what I was complaining about. And all I was going on, was what he said. No real speculation on my part other than his idea. I know it wont be implemented just like that, I was just saying that what he was talking about was an idea I didn't like.
You are building with blocks. You have tons of blocks, and are having a great time making various buildings out of them. Somebody comes along and says "I want you to build a tower that is 10 feet tall." So you start work, and make an awesome 10 foot tall tower. You have now completed the goal somebody gave you. Is building other things now suddenly pointless?
Awful analogy. Reason; that goal, is just that. A goal. Not the objective of the entire game. Merely a Goal. I have goals all through out my playing the game. But none of them actually mean the game is over.
Now, keep in mind, all I am talking about is Notch's SPECIFIC IDEA in that interview.
My problem is, as plainly as I can say it, this:
I play through the game, just like I am now. Utilizing all the features, doing everything i can in the game there is to do, (as I intend to keep doing) after, let's say several months, I have an amazing city, with red stone running all through it, I have every building I have thought of by this point, and I have just found the last artifact. It being part of the game, and me always loving a fight, I summon it, and kill it. Well, now, it just feels like this world is done. Yeah I could build, yeah, I could do whatever, but why? I just completed the game?
Problem two: Same scenario. Aaand I want to keep playing, even though I completed the game. And I want to fight that monster again... Oh, start a new world? Not worth it.
In reply to those who think the game being "winnable" would ruin it:
Suppose notch does add in optional quests to do, and the culmination of those quests is to defeat a big evil thing, at which point you "win" the game. So what? You could ignore those quests, and have pretty much the same game experience as you have now. You could go on those quests, defeat the big bad, then still go back to the current experience. Its not this will end your world. It just gives you more options as to what to do, and offers a more structured goal system for people who would like that. If you are happily building your minecraft world, and someone came up to you and said "Congratulations, you just won minecraft!", I doubt it would make a lick of difference to what your plans are for the world.
Sure, there will be people who start a minecraft world for the sole purpose of completing the quests and winning the game, and once they do so will not touch that world again. That is fine, just as it is fine for people to take a nomadic approach to minecraft and never settle down and build.
But embrace the quest or ignore it, it in no way lessens the minecraft experience.
Because I want boss fights. And I want to fight the monsters, but I do NOT want it to be like there is one boss a world, you beat that boss and your world is pointless. The way I play, I play to build, explore, and gather. I mean, I don't focus on one thing, so I mainly mine, and explore, but in the process, I build pretty cool stuff. So for me to do all that, in that world, (Been playing with the same world since I got the game) and then, just have the world "beaten" it makes it feel a bit pointless to do all that stuff. I mean, yeah I can just go back to building, but it would feel like there is even less of a reason to do all the stuff I do then there was before.
I want cool giant boss battles, (I enjoy fighting huge slimes and ghasts, but they arent that hard) so I want to keep fighting, and keep having these battles, and stay in my one world I have played so long to build.
What about the interview? Where Notch was talking about "winning the game"? Specifically talking about finding however many artifacts then when you have them all, you can summon the boss. Personally, I don't like that idea for a number of reasons.
1) If minecraft has an "end" it really wouldn't seem the same for some reason. You build this huge world, and then you finally kill the bad guy, and what's the point of sticking around? Everything else would just feel tedious after this.
2) If he does add a new enemy or boss, I would want to be able to battle it repeatedly. I don't like making more than one world. I only have one, massive world, and I don't want to make a new one just to fight a bad guy again.
3) I am way more in favor of random event then a "summoning". That just feels WAY more minecraft. You are just going along, when suddenly, and horrific creature emerges from the ground, or drops from the sky, or whatever it does.
That is just my opinion, though.
EDIT: And while I don't think it's ideal, it's not all that bad, simply not the best move imo.
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Now I don't think it's stupid. I was just saying, I don't think it's the best way. And I do, but saying stuff like "The fact that you find a goal (which is entirely optional) will ,once completed, remove value from the rest of the sandbox boggles my mind" Is a little more than stating their opinion. And that was what I was attempting to do. I am not whining, for one thing, I was just doing what everyone else is doing. I mean if that's whing, I could say you are whinging now...
But seriously, I said my opinion, then we went back and forth in the same manner. You cannot possibly say I did something wrong, or "whined" without saying you did the same.
Edit: Slight error in previous post, I meant to say :
"You aren't going to change my opinion, and I am not going to change yours." The error made that sentence sound far more aggressive than I intended it too. And as for "defensive" thing, I wasn't so much including you, in that, if that changes anything.
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Wow... :blink.gif:
Ok, well I am gonna say this, as simply put as I can...
The narrative of the idea that Notch was talking about. Oh, what? That is just a floating idea? He wasn't saying it was set like that? I KNOW, and that is why i was just talking about the stuff he said. Which was one of his ideas for the Narrative. Being Kill the big thing by finding artifacts. He even used the words "Win the game"! And wouldn't you call that a narrative?
And if you actually read my first post, which I cannot imagine you did, either that or you have a complete lack of any comprehension skills when you read, and if that is the acse, I truly am sorry, you would see, that I was saying, that I want to be able to fight this thing multiple times without starting a new world. And based on Notch said (Yes, small, yet rational assumptions) it doesn't sound like that idea, makes that possible.
And while maybe it wont affect the actual building, (though it may) it will cause that world to be "complete". Which is a thing I don't want.
Now, do all people feel this way? No. Do I care? No, I, much like you, have an opinion I was attempting to share it. Do I still want the update? Absolutely. Would this ruin the game? No.
All I am saying, is in my opinion, there is a better way to handle "bosses", than the idea notch said. Preferably random. But, that is just me.
And ME intolerant of the other way!? ME?! You are seriously joking, right? This whole time I've been stressing this was Just my OPINION! And everyone gets one, and unfortunately, that includes you.
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No I am not! I am going just on his words. And as I said, I am only talking about that specific idea he laid out.
No, I do not. The reason? THEY AREN'T MINECRAFT. Completely different. GTA didn't start out a crazy purely sandbox game people played for a year, then suddenly get a narrative. Minecraft, is so far from being either of those games, it is stupid to even try and compare them like that!
EDIT:
Yes, but Minecraft is completely different than 99% of all games. You shouldn't attempt to compare it to "what you do in this game" because there are no other games like minecraft.
And I don't even know why you all are being so defensive, You are not going to change my opinion, and especially not by saying "Well you can't do that in this game". That is why I play minecraft, because it isn't like those games. I don't want it to be like those games, I just it to be minecraft. And a narrative, and "winning" does NOT sounds like minecraft.
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Well I was just talking about monsters, and how I didn't like the idea, the way he was talking about it there. SO yes, I am making assumptions, and ONLY talking about the idea he proposed. And about assuming the worst possible implementation; there are much worse than what I was complaining about. And all I was going on, was what he said. No real speculation on my part other than his idea. I know it wont be implemented just like that, I was just saying that what he was talking about was an idea I didn't like.
Awful analogy. Reason; that goal, is just that. A goal. Not the objective of the entire game. Merely a Goal. I have goals all through out my playing the game. But none of them actually mean the game is over.
Now, keep in mind, all I am talking about is Notch's SPECIFIC IDEA in that interview.
My problem is, as plainly as I can say it, this:
I play through the game, just like I am now. Utilizing all the features, doing everything i can in the game there is to do, (as I intend to keep doing) after, let's say several months, I have an amazing city, with red stone running all through it, I have every building I have thought of by this point, and I have just found the last artifact. It being part of the game, and me always loving a fight, I summon it, and kill it. Well, now, it just feels like this world is done. Yeah I could build, yeah, I could do whatever, but why? I just completed the game?
Problem two: Same scenario. Aaand I want to keep playing, even though I completed the game. And I want to fight that monster again... Oh, start a new world? Not worth it.
0
Because I want boss fights. And I want to fight the monsters, but I do NOT want it to be like there is one boss a world, you beat that boss and your world is pointless. The way I play, I play to build, explore, and gather. I mean, I don't focus on one thing, so I mainly mine, and explore, but in the process, I build pretty cool stuff. So for me to do all that, in that world, (Been playing with the same world since I got the game) and then, just have the world "beaten" it makes it feel a bit pointless to do all that stuff. I mean, yeah I can just go back to building, but it would feel like there is even less of a reason to do all the stuff I do then there was before.
I want cool giant boss battles, (I enjoy fighting huge slimes and ghasts, but they arent that hard) so I want to keep fighting, and keep having these battles, and stay in my one world I have played so long to build.
0
1) If minecraft has an "end" it really wouldn't seem the same for some reason. You build this huge world, and then you finally kill the bad guy, and what's the point of sticking around? Everything else would just feel tedious after this.
2) If he does add a new enemy or boss, I would want to be able to battle it repeatedly. I don't like making more than one world. I only have one, massive world, and I don't want to make a new one just to fight a bad guy again.
3) I am way more in favor of random event then a "summoning". That just feels WAY more minecraft. You are just going along, when suddenly, and horrific creature emerges from the ground, or drops from the sky, or whatever it does.
That is just my opinion, though.
EDIT: And while I don't think it's ideal, it's not all that bad, simply not the best move imo.