Long story short, I'm renovating my "Omega-Farm" to make it more efficient while incorporating in more recently added crops. Wheat, Carrots, Potatoes, Pumpkins, Watermelons, Sugar Cane... I don't need help wiring the last three, but setting up the piston clock (and its outputs) for the first three is giving me a major headache. I'll admit I'm still learning redstone so this may just be inexperience.
I want the Wheat, Carrots and Potatoes to share a clock, but to not have one activate the other two when a specific crop is selected. The wiring for all three is already finished besides connecting with the clock and the wire powering the Pistons to control the water.
I'm not sure how to go about this. I can provide pictures if necessary, but I'd prefer to upload my test world so you can get a hands-on look at what I'm working with, and then show me how you would make it by modifying my world and posting it back here.
Leather really needs to be less rare, especially if they're just going to keep tacking more and more uses.
At the bare minimum, I'd allow Pigs to drop Leather (just one per kill) and have Cows drop two Leather guaranteed. It still is an annoying time sink, but just less annoying. It was never difficult.
Cows: Drop 1-3 Raw Beef and 2 Leather when killed. Can be milked
Pigs: Drop 1-3 Raw Porkchop and 1 Leather when killed. Has the chance to breed multiple piglets at a time.
The way this should be handled should not involve nerfing Cows. Cows are by no means OP, just better than Pigs. The result of balance could also be done by buffing Pigs up and increasing the Leather supply in the game with guaranteed Leather drops.
Following the above suggestion:
- The rarity of Leather decreases.
Instead of needing 24+ Cows to get Leather armor, you need merely 12, and can substitute Pigs if you can't find enough Cows.
Bookshelves become severely less annoying to obtain en masse for decor purposes.
Written Books and Books become much easier to come by.
Item Frames become about as easy to obtain as Paintings.
New Leather items can be added without concern about the lack of Leather available.
Getting a fully charged Enchanting Table would then require only 23 Cows (46 Books, 45 for Shelves, 1 for Table) instead of the 60 or so needed at the moment. A minor buff for Enchanting, but then again, the major difficulty for Enchanting comes from the Diamonds, Obsidian and EXP needed to operate it.
- Pigs now offer more food over Cows by sheer numbers.
Cows would still be stuck with their current food drops, but would be more focused on utility (Leather, Milk, Mushroom Stew) while Pigs return to the top of the (human) food chain due to their rapid increase in numbers.
Pigs become more unique and set apart from other mobs, much along the lines of Chickens dropping Eggs and Cows giving Milk.
I was also going to add three more changes to the OP.
- Lily Pads now spread like Mushrooms
- Leather has a guaranteed drop of 1 from every Cow, with a possibility of 2.
- Feathers have a guaranteed drop of 1 from every Chicken, with a possibility of 3.
These are only the simple changes. I'd also like to see some form of Bale block make it in game, to serve as a Wheat storage block. I also have a couple other changes in mind that may or may not need some feedback.
- All wood items can now be made into Oak, Birch, Spruce and Jungle types. - Issue: Some recipes do not have individual types of wood in their crafting recipes (Ladders/Fences) so new recipes will have to be made
- Mushrooms now are limited to 5 in a 7 wide by 7 long by 3 high are instead of 9/9/3.
- Something that may or may not be related to farming.
1. I'm saying hoes enchanted with silk touch/fortune should only have an effect on plants. Grass blocks, tall grass, dead bushes, ferns, mycelium, crops, melons and pumpkins, etc.
Basically, everything that is obtainable with Silk Touch besides Ore blocks and Ender Chests.
2. While it's level 30 now, I still stand by this argument. And you should put it in the thread if you want to suggest it, as it's related to farming. (Requires sugar canes and cows)
I will consider it, but once again, it makes too much sense for Mojang to do it. lol
3. Are melons found in jungles IRL? Just saying.
Watermelons are thought to be indigenous to tropical Africa.
About food being readily available, not exactly. Sure, bread is, as you can get seeds on your first day. More people would use the wheat needed for breeding cows to get steak. Steak heals 2 more drumsticks then bread and has more saturation, but requires more time to get. Melons on the other hand, grow quite fast once you find them, split into 2-5 pieces and can be easily farmed. Just 5 melon stems can get 10 melons/a hunger bar or 25 melons, 2 and a half hunger bars. Correct me if hunger bars are bigger or smaller, too lazy to check. XP
You're not taking into account saturation.
4. Alright then, support. It should require effort to make something else do the work for you.
It always does, even in cheaty farms like sand/gravel generators.
Erm, no. Enchanting was intentionally changed to avoid the grinding to level 50 which wasn't much of an achievement at all when you got Unbreaking 3. If the enchanting system was different, and you could actually pick your enchantments, then I'd agree with a 50 cap and slow leveling. But the enchantment system is so random, that having to get to 50 to get anything decent is just flat-out ridiculous.
I'm thinking of adding an improvement to mushroom spreading. Something reminiscent of Beta 1.7 so that Mushroom farms work, but that doesn't allow for the amazing spread that was seen in the Nether.
Fair enough. As long as fortune and silk touch only work on plants.
But why? On the Tools that Silk Touch is useful for (Shovels and Pickaxes), Shovels will always gather Grass and Mycelium faster, and Picks can mine blocks you could never get otherwise.
Yes. But cows should also drop at least 1 leather whenever killed, since you need to kill about 90 cows (150 if you're unlucky) to make enough bookshelves for level 50 enchantments.
I agree, but I left it intentionally out of the thread because I felt that it would make too much sense.
I disagree. Melons are the ultimate food source when you're not travelling. They grow quickly, each block drops 2-5 of these and once you find melon seeds, they can infinitely be your food, forever. It's meant to be a reward for going into abandoned mineshafts.
Other foods are readily available and it adds variety to the terrain generation.
If you want, they could be limited to spawning only in Jungle biomes.
If it takes a lot of effort to automate farms, support. If not, no support.
It does take a lot of Redstone if you try to make a big farm, without factoring in Dispensers and the Redstone needed to power them. Small ones wouldn't, but if it's a small one, why bother automating it in the first place?
If you did, then you would have known that you can't buy Gold or Diamond, and can only buy Diamond tools and Armor at approximately a stack of Iron Ingots each.
The first trading offers were known to be nothing more than placeholders. People analyzed them, and the whole "cost per material" of tools and armor was a disaster. Everything was way off. That was expected -- it was just an initial implementation, not a final product. There were adjustments and everything.
Last night I made a 27a world (had been waiting for 28a, was very disappointed to find that Jeb has said "I'm almost out of bugs to fix, find more for me", and won't release his current state.). Went to a village -- about 14 people. Almost all farmers. One librarian. One blacksmith. One butcher.
The trade offers even in 27a are ... Worthless
Seriously, I see people bringing out mods just to make the village economy better. The current state of 27a ... well, I won't expect to ever do any trading with NPC's. Yes, it's that bad. I never expected it to be anywhere near that bad.
Since this has nothing to do with mob grinders any more, I will not talk about the value of trade goods.
Alright. If you get 5 XP per kill, and need 4625 XP for level 50, that means 925 kills. If you get 40 kills in a game night (very high, but possible), you would need more than 20 nights of fighting without dying. Trying to find 900+ monsters in caves underground will take a very long time.
Now, the idea of being able to do this without messing up, and dying, and starting over is kinda crazy.
Or rushed, as most of the "features" implemented in 1.0.0 were.
But this in no way should have led anyone to the conclusion that you're only supposed to get level 50 enchants once.
"I can't get looting 3 with a low level enchant". True. Why do you think you are entitled to get looting 3? Why not ask for looting 8 or 9?
Because what would happen if, I dunno let me actually use my brain here, I wanted more than just a lowly Looting 1 on a finite tool?
Of course, I could make due with a Looting 1. It does help at earlier stages in a map. But once I stop only relying on random spawns, and have a steady source of XP, I don't see any reason why I should be forced to settle for a Looting 1 when I can try for a Looting 3.
Let me ask this question in a different form. Does the existence of level 9 magic user spells, that requires level 18 characters to use, mean that you should be able to become a level 18 mage whenever you want? Does the existence of epic magic that requires level 21 characters mean that you can make yourself level 21?
Minecraft is not like D&D. You can't compare the two.
Especially when the Minecraft "leveling system" is only used for enchanting and meant to be expendable, and not a source of achievement and progress.
Do you really think that because something exists, that you can use it as much and as often as you want?
Sandbox game?
I'm free to do whatever I want in a Sandbox game. According to you, if I choose to work my way towards something, I shouldn't get that something unless it is under one specific occurrence?
Yes, but those of us who are against mob grinders have generally been making longer posts, and haven't been double-posting. Quality over quantity.
If you want quality, I'll give you quality.
Again.
Just like a lot of people have done prior to me in this thread.
Besides which, the arguments to keep grinders are all selfish.
Just as all of the arguments to remove grinders are all selfish, as they claim to be for "fairness" but are actually not aimed at fairness, as removing grinders is unfair to everyone who likes making grinders (and people who like to creatively design buildings), everyone who likes having to not be forced to spend a millennia gathering enough Bones/Gunpower/Ender Pearls/etc. to speed up resource gathering/terraforming/transporting/etc., and you only want to remove them because of your own perceptions of what is and what isn't balanced or fair in a sandbox game.
Plus, removing grinders would have such an adverse effect on player-made maps like the Super Hostile series that it wouldn't be funny. By removing grinders, you're not only limiting Vech's ability to make maps harder because the player gets stronger, but you're also restricting his creative map making for your own selfish reasons.
The arguments to remove them are aimed at making the game fair for everyone.
So are the arguments for keeping them, actually.
If experience is too hard to get, then either the amount needed should be lowered (which it is being) or it should be made more available (which it is being).
So now that XP is not a reason to remove grinders, you have run out of arguments to use.
Besides which, mob grinders devalue almost all enchantments.
Perhaps.
Perhaps not, as now I can just stand at "ghetto" Blaze Farms (by Generikb) and cook my way up to Level 30. Hell, I could do without the ghetto Blaze Farm. Coal and Cobble baby.
Maybe you just have this perception that enchantments are meant to be inaccessible. Much like the OP.
Good thing Mojang doesn't have this faulty perception.
Rather than a system with lots of useful abilities that get better the more you put into getting them, we have a system where the prevaling mentality has become "top tier, or it's garbage". At that point, why even have different levels of effect?
How about player-made maps where the resources (and therefore XP) are limited to what the map maker has put in for the player?
What about people who don't want to grind up to 30 and would just prefer use the XP they've gotten from killing a few mobs to smack some level 1 enchants on random stuff?
There's a lot of reasons to have different levels of effect. You just haven't thought of them yet.
Splash potions of weakness? Turn a large group of mobs into *****-kittens? Dominate a PvP fight with one toss?
Minecraft is not balanced for PvP. The one who puts more effort into attaining the good materials is the winner in PvP.
And you never fight large groups of mobs in a normal map.
Small?? Let me introduce you to AlexZang. He learned from some guys named "Yogscast". TNT being small? TNT cannons in multiplayer? Massive warfare?
PvP is unimportant and the blast radius of TNT is nothing I couldn't do with ~20 uses of a tool.
Slightly? How about easily get to places you could not get to otherwise -- I think Etho determined that you can go up 33 blocks, and you can go down trivially any depth that would otherwise kill you from fall damage. (Or has that changed?)
How about I use blocks to make pathways up and down like normal? Ender Pearls are only for convenience.
And you haven't even addressed enchanted helmets, swords, bows; gold, blaze rods.
Enchants are done with mining and smelting and killing random mobs found while mining.
Blaze Rods aren't a significant issue until you want to start brewing, and their use as fuel is taken up by Coal too.
You barely addressed spider eyes, and seem ignorant of turning a useless potion like weakness into a weapon by making it splash.
Yeah, because in Vanilla Minecraft, potions of weakness, splash or no, are basically useless.
The most useful potions are health, speed, regeneration, and fire protection. Damage for traps too.
I'll forgive the issue of iron because, frankly, by that time you probably have all the iron you want anyways.
Just like you'll need all the iron you want by the time you make any efficient mob trap.
Oh yea -- iron can be farmed and turned into gold and diamonds at villages. That's right.
Except it can't be turned into gold, and can only be turned into diamond tools and armor. Hell, about one stack of Iron is roughly equivalent to a single Diamond tool, let alone a full set of tools and armor.
Actually, I thought that was the idea behind turning ores into XP -- you mine ores into minerals, you get XP. Two oddballs (iron and gold) have to be mined and smelted instead of just mined.
But smelting rocks for XP? ... Ayyyeeyiii.
It also gives XP to the people who don't like mining or caving at all, for cooking food and stuff.
What makes you think you are ever supposed to get a Level 50 except after killing the dragon?
What makes you think you are not supposed to get a Level 50 besides killing the dragon?
I'd like to see you and your... genius... reply to that.
Did it occur to you pro-grinder people that maybe this is part of why the max enchanting level was dropped -- to tell people that they aren't supposed to be getting high level enchants?
Did it ever occur to you that the max level drop and lowered XP requirements per level were added so that grinding was not the only possible way to get the good enchants?
Hell, if you did the least bit of research, you would understand that 30 is the new 50, and every single enchant possible at 50 before now has a much higher chance at level 30.
But you don't do any research. You're just off in your own world, looking for asinine reasons to say why mob grinders should be removed because you don't like them.
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I want the Wheat, Carrots and Potatoes to share a clock, but to not have one activate the other two when a specific crop is selected. The wiring for all three is already finished besides connecting with the clock and the wire powering the Pistons to control the water.
I'm not sure how to go about this. I can provide pictures if necessary, but I'd prefer to upload my test world so you can get a hands-on look at what I'm working with, and then show me how you would make it by modifying my world and posting it back here.
You can download it here.
Thank you for your help if you decide to help.
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Find the file that plays the sound, and replace it with a file that plays one second of nothing.
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At the bare minimum, I'd allow Pigs to drop Leather (just one per kill) and have Cows drop two Leather guaranteed. It still is an annoying time sink, but just less annoying. It was never difficult.
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Cows: Drop 1-3 Raw Beef and 2 Leather when killed. Can be milked
Pigs: Drop 1-3 Raw Porkchop and 1 Leather when killed. Has the chance to breed multiple piglets at a time.
The way this should be handled should not involve nerfing Cows. Cows are by no means OP, just better than Pigs. The result of balance could also be done by buffing Pigs up and increasing the Leather supply in the game with guaranteed Leather drops.
Following the above suggestion:
- The rarity of Leather decreases.
- Instead of needing 24+ Cows to get Leather armor, you need merely 12, and can substitute Pigs if you can't find enough Cows.
- Bookshelves become severely less annoying to obtain en masse for decor purposes.
- Written Books and Books become much easier to come by.
- Item Frames become about as easy to obtain as Paintings.
- New Leather items can be added without concern about the lack of Leather available.
- Getting a fully charged Enchanting Table would then require only 23 Cows (46 Books, 45 for Shelves, 1 for Table) instead of the 60 or so needed at the moment. A minor buff for Enchanting, but then again, the major difficulty for Enchanting comes from the Diamonds, Obsidian and EXP needed to operate it.
- Pigs now offer more food over Cows by sheer numbers.0
I was also going to add three more changes to the OP.
- Lily Pads now spread like Mushrooms
- Leather has a guaranteed drop of 1 from every Cow, with a possibility of 2.
- Feathers have a guaranteed drop of 1 from every Chicken, with a possibility of 3.
These are only the simple changes. I'd also like to see some form of Bale block make it in game, to serve as a Wheat storage block. I also have a couple other changes in mind that may or may not need some feedback.- All wood items can now be made into Oak, Birch, Spruce and Jungle types. - Issue: Some recipes do not have individual types of wood in their crafting recipes (Ladders/Fences) so new recipes will have to be made
- Mushrooms now are limited to 5 in a 7 wide by 7 long by 3 high are instead of 9/9/3.
- Something that may or may not be related to farming.
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I will consider it, but once again, it makes too much sense for Mojang to do it. lol
Watermelons are thought to be indigenous to tropical Africa.
You're not taking into account saturation.
It always does, even in cheaty farms like sand/gravel generators.
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I'm open to pretty much anything related to the topic of improving farming in Minecraft.
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Any ideas?
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Every type of farm that can be semi-automated besides Wheat farming has at least one automatic farm. Even Cobble generators have an auto farm.
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I agree, but I left it intentionally out of the thread because I felt that it would make too much sense.
Other foods are readily available and it adds variety to the terrain generation.
If you want, they could be limited to spawning only in Jungle biomes.
It does take a lot of Redstone if you try to make a big farm, without factoring in Dispensers and the Redstone needed to power them. Small ones wouldn't, but if it's a small one, why bother automating it in the first place?
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Since this has nothing to do with mob grinders any more, I will not talk about the value of trade goods.
Or rushed, as most of the "features" implemented in 1.0.0 were.
But this in no way should have led anyone to the conclusion that you're only supposed to get level 50 enchants once.
Because what would happen if, I dunno let me actually use my brain here, I wanted more than just a lowly Looting 1 on a finite tool?
Of course, I could make due with a Looting 1. It does help at earlier stages in a map. But once I stop only relying on random spawns, and have a steady source of XP, I don't see any reason why I should be forced to settle for a Looting 1 when I can try for a Looting 3.
Minecraft is not like D&D. You can't compare the two.
Especially when the Minecraft "leveling system" is only used for enchanting and meant to be expendable, and not a source of achievement and progress.
Sandbox game?
I'm free to do whatever I want in a Sandbox game. According to you, if I choose to work my way towards something, I shouldn't get that something unless it is under one specific occurrence?
Man, you're the fail around here.
Oh, I'm sorry. Just because Power 5 isn't available anymore, I'm completely wrong in saying that 30 is the new 50.
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Again.
Just like a lot of people have done prior to me in this thread.
Just as all of the arguments to remove grinders are all selfish, as they claim to be for "fairness" but are actually not aimed at fairness, as removing grinders is unfair to everyone who likes making grinders (and people who like to creatively design buildings), everyone who likes having to not be forced to spend a millennia gathering enough Bones/Gunpower/Ender Pearls/etc. to speed up resource gathering/terraforming/transporting/etc., and you only want to remove them because of your own perceptions of what is and what isn't balanced or fair in a sandbox game.
Plus, removing grinders would have such an adverse effect on player-made maps like the Super Hostile series that it wouldn't be funny. By removing grinders, you're not only limiting Vech's ability to make maps harder because the player gets stronger, but you're also restricting his creative map making for your own selfish reasons.
So are the arguments for keeping them, actually.
So now that XP is not a reason to remove grinders, you have run out of arguments to use.
Perhaps.
Perhaps not, as now I can just stand at "ghetto" Blaze Farms (by Generikb) and cook my way up to Level 30. Hell, I could do without the ghetto Blaze Farm. Coal and Cobble baby.
Maybe you just have this perception that enchantments are meant to be inaccessible. Much like the OP.
Good thing Mojang doesn't have this faulty perception.
How about player-made maps where the resources (and therefore XP) are limited to what the map maker has put in for the player?
What about people who don't want to grind up to 30 and would just prefer use the XP they've gotten from killing a few mobs to smack some level 1 enchants on random stuff?
There's a lot of reasons to have different levels of effect. You just haven't thought of them yet.
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And you never fight large groups of mobs in a normal map.
PvP is unimportant and the blast radius of TNT is nothing I couldn't do with ~20 uses of a tool.
How about I use blocks to make pathways up and down like normal? Ender Pearls are only for convenience.
Enchants are done with mining and smelting and killing random mobs found while mining.
Blaze Rods aren't a significant issue until you want to start brewing, and their use as fuel is taken up by Coal too.
Yeah, because in Vanilla Minecraft, potions of weakness, splash or no, are basically useless.
The most useful potions are health, speed, regeneration, and fire protection. Damage for traps too.
Just like you'll need all the iron you want by the time you make any efficient mob trap.
Except it can't be turned into gold, and can only be turned into diamond tools and armor. Hell, about one stack of Iron is roughly equivalent to a single Diamond tool, let alone a full set of tools and armor.
Seriously, do you even read the wiki?
It also gives XP to the people who don't like mining or caving at all, for cooking food and stuff.
What makes you think you are not supposed to get a Level 50 besides killing the dragon?
I'd like to see you and your... genius... reply to that.
Did it ever occur to you that the max level drop and lowered XP requirements per level were added so that grinding was not the only possible way to get the good enchants?
Hell, if you did the least bit of research, you would understand that 30 is the new 50, and every single enchant possible at 50 before now has a much higher chance at level 30.
But you don't do any research. You're just off in your own world, looking for asinine reasons to say why mob grinders should be removed because you don't like them.