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    posted a message on Map Height and Water/Grass flow
    My experiment worked! If you make the map deeper at the same time you're making it higher, the ocean level around the map stays the same!
    Posted in: Mods Discussion
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    posted a message on Map Height and Water/Grass flow
    Oh wow, I had no idea- This also fixed a problem with some of the blocks on my map being invisible. Thank you so much!

    I just had an idea about the map height I'm going to try out- i'm going to see if I can increase both the bottom and top of the map at the same time, to keep the water level the same. It might not work, BUT IT'S WORTH A SHOT
    Posted in: Mods Discussion
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    posted a message on Map Height and Water/Grass flow
    Hi, I've been running a minecraft server and have expanded the map using omen, but am having some problems. The most frustrating of which is that water doesn't seem to flow on the new sections of the map - if I build a block over water or sponge some of it away, when I remove the block or sponge the water doesn't fill the gap back up. I made sure not to use the 'still water' option in Omen, so I'm wondering if it's just a map/software limitation. Grass also doesn't grow over dirt in the new areas.

    Also, we want to increase the map height, but when we do, minecraft automatically scales the fake 'ocean level' around the outer borders of the map to be higher, so it looks like the whole map is in a crater. Is there a way to stop this from happening?
    Posted in: Mods Discussion
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    posted a message on Anti-griefing?
    interesting

    i used to play Active Worlds before they killed themselves by requiring monthly payments, and the bots you could make for that game could do some pretty excellent stuff. I made a tic-tac-toe bot and one that automatically assigned build lots in a city I started.
    Posted in: Server Support and Administration
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    posted a message on Anti-griefing?
    calm down dude (or dudette), seriously- people like you are why i usually stay away from forums

    I agree that 4chan has some violently smart and creative people involved; that's why it rose to popularity in the first place. Those people, however, aren't the ones that blindly follow whatever 'griefing-trend' is currently being put forth by /b/ without adding anything of their own to the mix. Those 'uncreative' people are the ones who perpetuate the "WE ARE ANONYMOUS" myth, creating an elitist sect out of nothing and making 4chan an even more groan-worthy place than it was before. At least the old groans were hilarious ones.

    By 'no effort,' i was differentiating between them and, say, people who feel the need to be a part of something greater and join the army. These people hide behind their computers and giggle at their new-found vocabularies, and feel important because of their new perceived social circle. This isn't fight club, you don't have to give anything of yourself to become 'a member,' and their 'better-than-thou' attitude is entirely undeserved.

    To be fair, I only know this because I too fell into the trap, but I realized what I was doing and moved on, and immediately saw other people who had fallen in the same trap as I had. For some strange and probably depressing reason, I was once approached by a guy at university who gave me a business card that said "ANONYMOUS" and moved on. I asked him what the hell this was, but he just smirked and cited RULES 1 AND 2. I stress, this was at a university.



    Also, I looked it up because.. someone was talking about it and I didn't know what it was? Quit being so contrarian, you don't know everything either.

    Also also, your signature reminded me I need to play Sanitarium again soon. Breathtaking game :')
    Posted in: Server Support and Administration
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    posted a message on Anti-griefing?
    i searched google for "minecraft client bot" and the first result was.. this thread.

    mind elaborating?
    Posted in: Server Support and Administration
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    posted a message on Anti-griefing?
    By 4chan, I meant juvenile, uncreative kids that feel the need to be a part of a group that makes them feel important without any effort on their part.
    Posted in: Server Support and Administration
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    posted a message on Anti-griefing?
    I blame 4chan for the griefer problem. People tell me Minecraft has gotten some attention on /v/

    Janitor, I think I may be :biggrin.gif: My server is called Hard Clumping's server, and you're always welcome. I tried to go back to that server we met on, but every time I try it's offline.
    Posted in: Server Support and Administration
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    posted a message on Anti-griefing?
    Quote from FalleM »
    Telling those people that they can host servers, but not in fact control what is going on is much like saying you can buy a plot of land, but let the architecht do whatever he wants, because that's whats right - that's what's fair. Which it totally isnt. Of course.

    I totally agree, and I couldn't have put it better myself- when Left 4 Dead came out, Valve introduced their first PC Matchmaking system. You could still host a dedicated server, but weirdly your server was just added your server to the database of servers that could be joined randomly by groups of people. Essentially, you can run your server, but have no control over who plays on it, even you.

    It's a different manifestation of a similar problem- if I run a server I'd like it to run the way I think would be the most fun. This can lead to really terrible ego-tripping admins (Battlefield 2142 for example has some terribly restrictive servers with vague and poorly spelled out rules that admins will kick you breaking even if you don't know about them), but that's par for the course with any game. However, it can also lead to some amazing things, like Team Fortress 2's 2fort2furious, which is almost another hilarious game entirely.

    I'm sure all of this will get sorted out, this game is very early on after all. I just hope that I've explained my problem in an understandable way, to the end of having someone with the ability to change things listen.
    Posted in: Server Support and Administration
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    posted a message on Anti-griefing?
    Thanks mail, I just got the terms mixed up. Fixed in my original post.

    I've used cMss, but it didn't add anything useful except timed server messages and lame emotes, so I ditched it. I did find an automatic server-backup tool, which is nice, but if I were to leave the server unlocked, not only would I be reverting constantly, I would be the only one able to revert. So, if say, one of my regulars gets on and starts building something amazing, and someone comes in and destroys half the map, he'd have to wait for me to show up and revert, killing most of his new work.

    I'll check #archives; thanks.

    EDIT: Also, Notch must be fully aware of the server software in common use by some of the bigger server hosters- things like this seem like stupidly simple and crucial additions and I can't figure out what other Minecraft features he could be working on that would keep him from taking, like, a day to add these things. I heard about a transition to/addition of Lua, but a gimped version (??). could that provide the functionality I'm hoping for?
    Posted in: Server Support and Administration
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    posted a message on Anti-griefing?
    EDIT: This post is pretty long, so I added some picture examples of why I love this game so much to break it up.

    ---------------------------------------

    Hi, I've been hosting my server for a better part of a week now, and it's become a hugely positive experience for everyone involved. It started with some real-life friends of mine, but we've met some other people who have contributed amazing things to our little world.



    Of course it's extremely difficult to keep the server from being griefed. The only way I've been able to get around it is by having my OP's and I be extremely hands-on with new members, being forced into paranoia and stalking tactics to keep people from messing up stuff. I have a jail at the spawn point that we've affectionately named 'Noob Island,' and it works to keep people out, but I don't want people to be locked out. I'd like to let them in and see some of the amazing things these people have created.



    We've settled on a fairly basic routine. When someone joins and asks to be let out, we say, "We'll let you out, if you promise to respect others' art." If they agree, we let them out (if we are there/not too busy to show them around). Then comes a taxing period where we basically have to follow them around to make sure they're not going to destroy anything.

    This works, but it makes the experience very negative and it makes whoever created what was destroyed feel defeated. I would much rather be able to let people roam around and view things, but with the restriction that only people on a list can build/delete anything. It seems like an extremely basic thing to add to minecraft, as we already have the OP functionality, and I am baffled and disappointed that this hasn't become a standard option.



    Basically, out of every 5 people who join, 3 people will almost immediately find something to destroy, and we ban them and either fix what they've broken or revert to a backup. 1 out of 5 will pretend to be fine and help us to work, or start on their own project until we leave them alone for a while. Then, their dark side comes out. They either were an undercover griefer along, or start demanding OP status. Which, of course, we feel no obligation to accept, but people take the (very minor) upside of being an OP very seriously, often resorting to calling us names and yelling at us (is this really supposed to work?), and insulting others' work, if we don't comply with their demands.

    The remaining person, if we can root them out (which i'll get to in the next paragraph), end up becoming valuable members of our community- building, conversing, showing us the amazing ideas they have stored in their head, basically contributing to the amazing experience we've come to love that this game has shown us.

    I'd just like to say that I'm sorry to anyone reading this who has come to our server and we haven't let in, even if we were there, either because we were too busy on our own projects or were still running damage control on a previous grief attempt and simply didn't have the energy to babysit a new person. We have to be jerks, and we hate it. We always hate playing games where admins are overly controlling, and we feel that we've been forced to adopt the traits we despise so much in other people. But, that's the only way we can protect the things we've worked hard to create from destruction. Once we know that a person is okay, though, we can lighten up and things become fun again.



    It's been brought to my attention that there are certain servers that use custom server software that allows the anti-griefing functionality I mentioned, and I would jump at the chance to get my hands on something that would provide similar functioning. I would even pay for it. I've been searching for nights on end to find one, but there seem to be only three- two of them are exclusive to the servers for which they were made (WoM and The Archives), and one was made by someone who seems to have been exiled from minecraft by unnecessary drama (JTE).

    I am currently running my server on my own computer, and am seriously considering paying for a server in order to expand, but until I can find some anti-griefing functionality, it's simply becoming too taxing for my OP's and myself to let many people on at once, since we are also trying to work on our own projects which are becoming ambitious and difficult on their own even without the worry of it being destroyed.



    So I guess my questions are:

    1. For a game so easily griefable**, why haven't there been anti-griefing options already implemented for a game that has been released to the public for so long?
    -
    If I had some sort of reassurance that this was going to be fixed soon, I would pre-purchase the game for myself and any of my OP's that couldn't afford it to help fund development, because the experience of building and watching others build has been a profoundly positive experience to everyone involved. This game can be truly incredible.

    2. Does anyone know of a way to contact JTE, or anyone with custom server software willing to sell it?

    -I feel the need to expose this art to the world, and I can't do that knowing that half the people who play this game are ravenous left-clickers with no respect for others.

    I'd just like to say that this game is seriously one of the most amazing things I've ever found on the internet. I play plenty of 'normal' video games, but I always have a special place in my heart for exploring a world that involves a community of people working to build something amazing.



    **- Appearances aside, finding creative ways to interact with a game (and others in a game) is one of my hobbies in video gaming. For example, I play Space Station 13 rather often, which is a game so complex that anything can (and will) go wrong, usually in direct response to what a player has done. This can be viewed as griefing, but the 'griefing' i participate in is creative and usually leaves the person on the receiving end just as entertained as the griefer himself, which, while it disrupts others' gameplay, it is in a way that doesn't hinder them from having fun. Minecraft, though, the only 'griefing' that is possible amounts to running through a museum with a knife and hammer, slashing paintings and smashing sculptures. That's not funny, it's juvenile and scary behavior.


    EDIT: If you read this and want to come in, just mention that you read my thread and we'll try and show you around the world if we're there. You are absolutely welcome to help us build. Every day I am blown away by things that new people have built; it's truly become a wonderland of imagination that leaves me extremely humbled and fascinated by the people in this world.

    Posted in: Server Support and Administration
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