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    posted a message on New Nether... Survive This

    Does that mean should Notch decide to pick up this version of the New Nether he WON'T include Gloomwood Planks?
    Certainly not.
    But we aren't including them because we have no purpose for them.


    Well said! Here - :Diamond: . :smile.gif:

    For the future, here's a little tip (a little something for everyone): When people suggest cosmetic/aesthetic options that have no specific function or are essentially just reskins (gold carts, gloomwood planks, etc), rather than argue about their function/value, just accept the suggestion and move on. You might not see the value in them (or their discussion), but others might and there's absolutely no harm in that. Minecraft is no stranger to mere aesthetics (there are currently three types of trees and they all do the same thing).
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on New Nether... Survive This
    Quote from Darkbirth »
    Quote from Thack »
    @Darkbirth
    Yes, I see that. Maybe all the cold it absorbs makes it brittle, and it crystallizes, although that is quite unrealistic. Perhaps it's a lichen tree, which is a colonial organism and grows well in volitile places, and they can be living and grow, but still be mineral-like; if Lichen grew huge and solid like proposed, it would probably form cakey shards (from my experience with lichen anyway) Yes they usually are smaller, but, trees don't spontaneously grow in real life, either.


    Bless your heart, Thack. You're actually coming up with reasons as to why it would be possible. And in all honesty, it's not a bad idea. I'm not sure I would exactly call it a tree, but the idea of hellish mold or lichen is interesting in it's own right. Go ahead and hold on to that idea. It's a good one.


    Yes, well done; now that's thinking outside the box. :smile.gif:

    It sounds to me like gloomwood is supposed to behave more like some sort of hybrid of crystal and fungus, as opposed to an actual tree. If that's the case, then it shouldn't be called '-wood', because it certainly woodn't be wood then. Yes this is the Nether and things are supposed to behave differently, but think about what these things would be called from the perspective of someone who came from the Overworld; if it feels and acts like wood, they'll call it wood; otherwise they'll call it something else.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on The Nether Update: The Nether Expansion Topics
    Quote from GreyAcumen »
    That's exactly the problem with it. The whole "has something for everyone" might as well be saying "It doesn't make any difference which one you're in! You might as well just reskin the Overworld!"
    The Nether is a DIFFERENT Realm. It should FEEL different and PLAY differently and use different strategies to succeed in it.


    Yes it should be different, but it should also be consistent. In my opinion, Scarecrowman's concept has room to go a bit further, but yours goes too far.

    In the end, the choice about how the Nether evolves is up to Mojang, but no doubt they've had a good look at both concepts by now.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on New Nether... Survive This
    Quote from techpriest88 »
    On this and all other points, we have a simple difference of opinion, so I won't try arguing you ad nauseum. I'd like to mention though that there's already a perfectly functional, if inelegant, method to create cascades: torches, signs, ladders, and the like will all hold up sand/gravel, releasing it when the anchor block falls. Yes, you would have to make a pyramid, or put anchoring pillars throughout the cascade region (or do something more creative that I'm too lazy to think of). I find this to be perfectly acceptable for my purposes, so in my opinion, having soul sand act the way you suggest is redundant. People can be equally creative with the existing methods and achieve great results. (I actually just got inspired to create a cascade, so thank you for that. Now where's my graph paper..?)


    In Grey's defense, using torches, signs, ladders, etc to hold up sand or gravel is a bug/exploit that will (hopefully) be fixed in a future update. Having a legitimate alternative to using an exploit is a much better solution.

    FYI: I found a use for cascades in PvP. I build a large wall around my base several blocks thick and fill the interior with sand+gravel. When the enemy comes hacking at my wall, they have several layers of cascades to get through before they can get in; meanwhile I pepper them with arrows or tip lava on them from above.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on New Nether... Survive This
    Quote from GreyAcumen »

    Quote from Disordah »

    How can one be in Midas Tears AND lava at the same time? Are you suggesting two flowing blocks are going to be 'mixing' together? Won't that create problems/bugs?

    I don't see any issues, since source block for Midas Tears doesn't burn, but the flow does, being surrounded by lava just wont give it a chance to flow anywhere, so it'll be a single block surrounded by lava, possibly very hard to see and easy to mistakenly float across in your netheraft.


    So the real threat of carting through lava is the chance of running over a single MT source somewhere, falling out and dying, all your stuff then lands in the lava and it all gets destroyed. Essentially a MT block in the lava is an instant game-stopper (you've got no gear in the Nether; you're forced to return and gear up again). This is not fun. Midas Tears, if at all, should be kept seperate from lava, just as how water and lava currently react to each other (solid block is generated to seperate them).

    Quote from GreyAcumen »

    Quote from Disordah »

    Turning stuff into gold is fair enough, but the whole destuction/burning bit is going to create too many problems. In fact you could probably remove Midas Tears altogether and still have a very attractive concept overall.

    What are you talking about? Only the ability to turn Items to gold extends to the player's quickbar, it only destroys your items if you drop an item that can't be turned into gold into it. (and wont destroy gold items at all) That part isn't much different than lava, so what problems is it gong to bring other than the ones it is SUPPOSED to cause for the player?


    I'm talking about this:
    ...The flow from Midas Tears will destroy any substantial (solid) blocks in the path of it's flow...


    Apart from the griefing, if a Midas Tears block generates or gets placed at the base of a hill or mountain, it's going to cut a hole through the base of it and make it look 'wrong'. You'll be seeing gloomwood trees floating atop the pools of Midas Tears. It will basically ruin the landscape.

    Quote from GreyAcumen »

    Quote from Disordah »

    So the bucket turns into a gold bucket, but the minecart turns into a gold helmet? MECHANICALLY this works, but REALISTICALLY it doesn't. (you must be a developer :tongue.gif:)
    There is no harm in creating a gold minecart that functions exactly the same as an iron one.
    Not everything needs to be given a specific function. Yes it's ideal to give everything a purpose, but immersion and aesthetics work just fine on their own. If you want the danger of steering your cart into lava, then have gold minecarts melt on impact. No one could argue with that.

    Minecraft doesn't NEED to be realistic, logical yes, but not realistic. There are 3 ways that a minecart might run into Midas Tears:
    1) Using the minecart as a lava boat, and running into a patch of Midas Tears. This is the most likely situation, and in it the gold minecart would melt in the lava, so not only is it useless, its appearance would be all of 2 seconds.
    2) Using the minecart as a minecart, and somehow manages to touch Midas Tears. Minecart turns into a gold minecart and has absolutely no negative repercussions.
    3) In the player's quickbar when the player touches Midas Tears. Again, no negative repercussions.
    So in the most likely scenario, the golden minecart barely even makes an appearance and might as well be a golden helmet for all the difference it would make, and in the other scenarios, there's no negative effects. It literally has no point except to make people question why they can't just make minecarts out of gold directly so they don't have to waste iron building them.
    The gold bucket has a purpose, it makes it in. The gold minecart doesn't, and has an equivalent item that it can change into instead, so it doesn't make it in. I'm sure there will be plenty of people that go "wait, why a helmet?" but then they'll eventually put 2 and 2 together and notice the similarity of the crafting recipe.


    No Minecraft doesn't NEED to be realistic, but it helps. In any case, there's a fine line between Realism and Logic.

    You say a golden minecart has no purpose... well it has about as much purpose as a gold helmet. It is even more logical than a gold helmet. It is more consistent with the concept. The only link the gold helmet has to a cart is it has the same crafting components; otherwise it is a completely different item. The only reason why you suggested cart=helmet was because you were looking for existing items to use for the conversion. Cart=Helmet is not logical. If you put cart=helmet in the game, you will get a big, fat "WTF?" from the majority of the Minecraft-community and they may accept it, but it could still be better. If a gold cart has no function and it absolutely MUST have one, then GIVE IT ONE! It's not like it's going to be hard to add a gold cart to the game.
    To be honest, it just sounds like you can't take constructive criticism and will stubbornly push your side of the arguement beyond reason. If this were a mod I'd let you do what you want without question, but your pushing this for vanilla release, which unfortunately involves me and everyone else, so try to step outside the box and factor in the rest of the playerbase when you discuss your concepts.

    /rant
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on The Nether Update: The Nether Expansion Topics
    Quote from GreyAcumen »

    1) Have you actually read the opening post of THIS thread instead of just looking at the single picture of all the mockup items? This suggestion is absolutely glutted with material and recipes that are either completely overpowered and serve no purpose except possibly one single task that could have easily been added to an already existing block/item/material instead. The Mob section barely has a sentence for each mob.
    The New Nether suggestion that Sabata and I propose has;
      BALANCED Tools with unique abilities that make them desirable but don't make overworld tools superfluous
      UNIQUE mobs each with their own attack style that makes battling them a completely different experience
      a method for volcanoes WITH eruptions that allow them to occur naturally AND even be built by the player.
      a method for different size portals (the larger of which will increase the chances of Nether mobs getting into the Overworld)
      Dungeons that you can't break the walls to get to the treasure without going through properly.
      A SIMPLE method for boating across lava.
    2) you complain that Sabata is spamming, but you quoted him along with his link to the New Nether suggestion thread, so you're only helping "spam" it more. LOL.


    The mechanics of some of the content in Scarecrowman & Friend's concept aren't as good and could use some work, but it's still a better concept/idea overall (mechanics can be fixed; ideas are not so easily fixed). It's simple and adds more 'levels' to the game. It attracts players by offering useful and valueable tools/gear to show off back in the overworld (or even the Aether, fingers crossed), but also allows for players to base themselves solely in the Nether. Every player can benefit from frequent visits to either world and they can do it their way. It's an 'extension' to the game that appeals to a variety of players that is consistent with the feel of Minecraft.

    The concept you and Sabata proposed has some great mechanics, but it's more about how YOU want to see the Nether environment. It's over-complicated in some areas (Midas Tears and eruptions, while cool ideas, are getting a bit too complicated), there's less gear/items to tantalise players with and they're only really of any use on the Nether (why would I bother bringing them back if they're less effective/durable on the overworld?). The environment is more of an 'alternative' to the overworld that imposes a specific style of play. It basically says, "the Nether world is for Nether players". While this may be very attractive to a certain type of player, it does not appeal to everyone.

    The Scarecrowman & Friends Nether concept (or inspiration thereof) would be a great addition to Minecraft, as it has something for everyone; much like Minecraft in general. The Sabata/GreyAcumen Nether concept on the other hand, would make a great mod, as it appeals to a niche target audience.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on New Nether... Survive This
    Quote from GreyAcumen »

    "Crap, don't ever let your minecart steer into Midas Tears. It will ruin you if you're in lava an still be annoying otherwise."


    How can one be in Midas Tears AND lava at the same time? Are you suggesting two flowing blocks are going to be 'mixing' together? Won't that create problems/bugs? Either way, I'm still not a fan of Midas Tears; I think its going a little too far. Turning stuff into gold is fair enough, but the whole destuction/burning bit is going to create too many problems. In fact you could probably remove Midas Tears altogether and still have a very attractive concept overall.

    So the bucket turns into a gold bucket, but the minecart turns into a gold helmet? MECHANICALLY this works, but REALISTICALLY it doesn't. (you must be a developer :tongue.gif:)
    There is no harm in creating a gold minecart that functions exactly the same as an iron one.
    Not everything needs to be given a specific function. Yes it's ideal to give everything a purpose, but immersion and aesthetics work just fine on their own. If you want the danger of steering your cart into lava, then have gold minecarts melt on impact. No one could argue with that.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on New Nether... Survive This
    Some nice replies there, I'm getting a better idea of what's being proposed. Thanks.

    A couple of points though:

    While you might not be keen on additional tiers of tools/armour in the Nether, I'm sure plenty of other players are. Either way, rather than additional tiers, they could just have alternative damage vs durability. Personally I feel there's too big a gap between iron and diamond and while nothing needs to be any better than diamond, the aesthetics sure would make SMP a more pleasantly diverse place to play (did I mention I'm bored of diamond?). That being said, having the additional functions is a good idea.

    The act of turning a cart into a helmet is just mind-boggling. "I rowed into a river of tears and my boat turned into a gold helmet." o_0 It's just a lot more consistent to make a gold minecart for this purpose. Much like a painting, it doesn't need a use. If it must have a use, I'm sure either of you can come up with one. In any case, it makes more sense than turning it into a helmet. The construction might be similar, but the scale is all wrong. Surely you must see that (mind you, zombies dropping feathers? o_0).
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Vacations and why Minecraft is dying.
    Quote from druimania »
    ...I do have some personal grievances with the lack of basic functionality like the nether, on SMP, while wolves are added...


    ^ This ^ This ^ This

    Ever since I got the Alpha, I see content being added, but bugs not being fixed. SMP is where the future of Minecraft is and the Nether is the ultimate goal, but neither have had much love. We bought the game early as an investment and are eager to see where it's going, but instead of getting an informative list of planned updates/fixes or even an analysis on what needs to be addressed, we get the occasional whim or wishful thought mumbled on tumblr or twitter.

    Mojang are far from professional and that reputation is now stuck with them. At this stage I have little faith in their ability to produce a quality product and will not support their other projects. My attitude will not change until I see some improvement in their handling of Minecraft. I'd be more than willing to assist in Quality Assurance, but they've hardly given me or anyone else that opportunity. Sure they have a lot of feedback to sieve through, but that in itself says a lot.
    Posted in: Discussion
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    posted a message on New Nether... Survive This
    I had a good look through your proposal and while everything's very well thought (and laid) out, I really feel you've gone a little too far (or completely the wrong direction) in some places.

    The Blight -
    I believe this concept is over-complicating things. Think of the 'moving parts' involved in implementing this idea; more 'moving parts' means more development, more bugs and more possible exploits.
    The atmosphere of the Nether can more simply be determined by its native blocks alone. Keep it simple. Existing functionality allows for behaviour of block types, so stick with that. I don't see any problem with bringing in your own Earth blocks and making your own personal 'Earth' in the Nether world; likewise with taking Nether blocks back to Earth and having your own Nether garden. Minecraft is as much about building whatever the hell you want, as it is about struggling to survive in the process.

    Nether-specific Tools -
    Rather than incur a durability loss with using Earth tools on the Nether world (or whichever), just being able to craft tools out of Nether materials is more than good enough. They can differ from Earth tools in damage and durability, but in this case, being able to survive solely in the Nether without having to leave is the main point (that and the aesthetics; I'm already sick of seeing everyone in iron and diamond. I'll also mention I much prefer the look of the items presented in the previous Nether Update thread).

    Demon Bones -
    I have a simpler idea that might fit in with what you're trying to achieve with the creation of demon bones. Simply convert skeleton bones into demon bones using the 'freezer'. Likewise one should be able to convert demon bones into skeleton bones using a furnace.

    Updated Blocks -
    The current blocks and their functions need no modification. As indicated previously, excessive 'moving parts' can cause bugs and other issues. Keep it simple.

    Freezer -
    Nice idea, it certainly opens up some really interesting options.

    Mobs -
    Love the mobs; you can never have too many different kinds of mobs.

    Netherraze -
    Love it and the ingots, although the adjusted smelting rate probably isn't all that necessary. Either way it will still function well, so its probably best to keep the code to a minimum and leave the smelting rate alone.

    Midas Tears -
    The design here is a little broken; it flows further than water, destroys blocks in its path, but wont flow over edges... ok, potentially buggy and there are definately some exploits there, but I can also see it potentially working if it just used the existing flow code. What doesn't quite fit is how the flow can be ignited and burnt away, but the source can't... this would cause a never-ending river of fire, as the source would constantly be ejecting a flow, but the flow would be constantly burnt away. You could try to code your way around the issue, but the same thing was said about permanently burning forrest fires. Remove that aspect and it could work.
    It turns minecarts into helmets?! o_0 It would make MUCH more sense to add a gold minecart into the game for this purpose; if anything. The conversion to gold could probably be limited to iron and diamond items only though; if gold isn't found in the Nether, then materials native to the Nether shouldn't change into gold.

    Gloomwood -
    Great idea, although it's probably not necessary to destroy the gloomwood block if a lava block is placed next to it (and turned into obsidian).

    Deadbrush -
    Great idea, especially for protecting areas against fire; although it doesn't make sense for it to be able to be ignited and burned away. o_0 How about a single 'click' to remove?

    Blood Gem Tools and Netherraze Tools -
    Can't argue with these, they look great and anything to distract from the grey/blue norm is such a relief!

    Eruptions -
    Although they sound complicated and troublesome to implement, I couldn't argue with a working result. It's a great idea, but would need to be approached carefully.

    The 'Community' Approach -
    You've mentioned many of these ideas were taken from other sources. That's great, but don't neglect the other Nether Update thread (http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=146410). I don't see why you couldn't take items, ores, shrooms and the likes from their ideas and use them here. Aesthetically they looked great and I love just looking at them.

    While I generally like the concepts presented here, I really do think the mechanics need to be more simplified. In addition, rather than force an ideal Nether world on the players, give them the chance to make the Nether their own; which means involving little or no 'corruption' to Earth blocks. Minecraft is about crafting, after all.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Authentication Server Mirrors
    Just a quick one:

    With everyone having to authenticate their login credentials from a single server, obviously if that server goes down, no one can connect to any game servers. This is bad in all stages of development, as not even the testers are able to connect.

    I propose a short list of Authentication server mirrors that the client sequentially attempts to authenticate with until it successfully logs in. This would solve the problems associated with a broken authentication server.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on New Weapons (Not Guns)
    Quote from muncher21 »
    The two above posters should read the entire thread.


    I did. Anything repeated is considered to be in support of related opinions. In addition, I offered alternative crafting recipies as well as alternative effects that are more simplified and thus easier to implement.

    Geez, get your hand off it already!
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on New Weapons (Not Guns)
    There's already an Axe in the game that's useful in combat, so there's no point in making another one. In addition, I think weapon functions need to be kept simple.

    Pike
    [] :Iron: :Iron:
    [] :|: []
    :|: [] []
    Strikes the square 2 steps in front of you, but adjacent square is just a punch.
    EDIT: Or, Extra knockback.

    Hammer
    :Iron: :|: :Iron:
    [] :|: []
    [] :|: []
    Extra knockback, which has it's pros and cons.
    EDIT: Or, Extra damage vs skeletons.

    A blade, an axe, a polearm and a basher; that would probably be enough for this game.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on [Concept] Custom Mob Tool...
    I noticed a lot of posts relating to the addition of more or specific mobs, so I came up with the concept of a Custom Mob Tool. At first I wondered if it were possible, but when I looked at the custom player skin functionality, I was inspired.
    There are two possible methods of achieving this: as a SMP Server tool or as an online resource, similar to how the current custom player skins work.

    As an SMP Server Tool:
    :GP: Upon launching the tool, a GUI provides a list of current mobs linked to the local server which can be viewed and modified accordingly. In addition, the mob's model+skin is displayed in the top corner (similar to how the current custom player skin is displayed under Preferences on Minecraft.net)
    :GP: The user is then able to select 'New' or 'Edit' and can adjust the mob's name, model, skin, health, damage, method of attack, spawn rate, loot, nocturnal on/off, netherworld on/off, passive/defensive/aggressive and special functions (such as fly, jump, explode, rideable, etc).
    :GP: Only custom skins would be uploadable. Each skin would utilise one of the pre-existing models.
    :GP: Health and damage would need a set minimum/maximum to prevent crazy over-powered or buggy mobs.
    :GP: Clicking 'Save' then places the custom mob into the server's mob list and the mob behaves accordingly in-game.

    This will allow SMP server hosts to come up with their own server-specific theme. It would be up to the host to moderate and players may pick and choose what they want to see in the game by either finding a server that suits them or establishing their own.

    As an Online Resource:
    :GP: The user navigates to Minecraft.net, logs in and enters 'Preferences'. There they are presented with a series of tabs, including 'Player Skin' and 'Custom Mob'.
    :GP: The 'Player Skin' tab presents the user with the current custom player skin interface.
    :GP: The 'Custom Mob' tab presents the user with an interface similar to what was described above; being able to adjust the mob's name, model, skin, health, damage, method of attack, nocturnal on/off, nether-only on/off, passive/defensive/aggressive and special functions (such as fly, jump, explode, rideable, etc).
    :GP: Health and damage would need a set minimum/maximum to prevent crazy over-powered or buggy mobs.
    :GP: Only custom skins would be uploadable. Each skin would utilise one of the pre-existing models.
    :GP: A moderator would be required to monitor each submission to prevent naughty names/skins.
    :GP: User-submitted mobs should either not drop any loot or randomly drop mundane loot to keep the loot system balanced.
    :GP: Whenever a new game or server starts, a set number of custom mobs are chosen at random from the online database and added to the mob list, including any mobs submitted by the current user. An option to enable/disable this feature would be required.
    :GP: The maximum amount of mobs submitable by each player could be limited by adjusting the number of 'Custom Mob' tabs available on the 'Preferences' page; I would imagine anywhere from 1 to 5 possible submissions from each user, depending on server capacity.

    This is a bigger project and would require some form of submission moderation, but it would ensure a fresh experience with every newly spawned world and a massive variety of mobs for players to encounter. A reporting system or some other method of exclusion would help players filter out any unwanted mobs; perhaps even a Rating/Voting system or Theme association. An SMP Server tool could also be added to further customise a server's mob theme; possibly even utilising the online database as a source.

    While a custom mob system isn't necessary in Minecraft, it would provide another attractive feature to an already addictive game. It would allow each server and possibly each single-player game to be unique with differing challenges. Players seeking weird and wonderful mobs alike can get what they wish for and share even more avenues of creativity with the Minecraft community.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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    posted a message on Extended 2x2 Grid Crafting: Now Playable!
    Quote from GreyAcumen »
    Too plentiful? How are arrows any less plentiful? The only other ingredients are sticks, which you can grow, and feathers, which you can get from smacking chickens and zombies. Not exactly hard to come by, or a huge danger to gather. Also if you miss with the sling, you don't get to pick your bullets back up, nor does it fire as fast. If you're referring to the material to gather the string, then you still need to go up against a spider either way.


    Personally, I've come across a LOT more gravel than chickens and zombies combined (why oh why do feathers even come from zombies anyway?!). Seriously, I doubt you'd ever have to worry about ammo with the sling. I really think that limiting the ranged combat to just bows works fine, but could still use some tweaking.

    In COMBAT. You're not making your case for claiming to have read the descriptions for all of these. Skimmed maybe.


    I did only have a quick glance and I admited to it. I never said I read it all, although when I do have the time, I'll go back and have a quick read here and there. I simply started off with a quick opinion and got bombarded with flames, so now I'm having to defend myself. Anyway, as for the boomerang idea, I think it's a silly idea coming from a Zelda fan. Being able to 'harpoon' items with it? Have you ever used a boomerang? In truth, returning boomerangs are only for show and have no other function. I should know, I'm an Aussie. :wink.gif:

    Why even bother with the light then? And anything stronger than 2damage is going to be overpowered at that rate, since you're using COAL as your ingredient.

    (Coal+stick)+(flint+stick+feather) to be precise. Of course, a red-torch could be an alternative. I think once more mobs/pvp come into play, you'd probably be wanting to be able to cause more damage.

    People don't WANT to carry a workbench around with them. I know I don't, but I put up with it for now because hand tools aren't an option yet. It defeats the point of feeling like a workbench if they just carry it around everywhere. So... yes, I do feel that it's broken, and I feel this is the fix.


    Although I still prefer to leave my crafting station at home (especially when I'm working with a team of mates), I do agree that it is a little unfair being able to simply carry the crafting station around with you wherever you go. That being said, I doubt there is very little that can be done about it and your proposal doesn't really 'fix' anything.
    A fix would be destroying the crafting station only yields a plank of wood, thus stopping you from taking it wherever you go. Anyone wanting a mobile crafting station would need to carry a stack of wood around with them, but having to craft the station each time restores that distraction in a sense, especially since you'll be having to return to the surface for wood more often. As for making a trail of crafting stations, have mobs attack them or be attracted to them.
    Posted in: Suggestions
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