Minecraft Forums

The ability to change the ore spawn rates means that you can make the game harder by decreasing their rates, as well as easier by increasing them.

Quote from Xion1088

Seems like a lot of people didn't like my OPINION, anyways, after some test and thinking i think the best could be to add refreshing back, i mean, taking the item and putting it back again and there would be different enchantments, cuz this ACTUAL way you will end up with a lot of cheap tools with cheap enchantments (i know nobody will risk their first diamond pickaxe to get Efficiency III, maybe more enchantments if you're lucky) and MAYBE transfering enchantments from tools to books with a higher price than from books to tools.

Nope, a lot of people disagree with your opinion, because quite frankly we find the new enchantment system worlds better than the old one, fairly easy to use to get the enchantments you want, and a lot cheaper XP wise. It really doesn't need to get any easier than it already is. Getting the enchantments you want should take at least some effort and strategy.

Seriously, a well designed enchanting room and a little patience can give you your choice of about 15-20 enchantments. The key is to check multiple items at multiple levels. For example, a Diamond Pickaxe might give you your choice of Fortune II at level 16, Efficiency III at level 20, Silk Touch at level 24, or Unbreaking III at 30.

So when enchanting, and wanting that coveted Silk Touch diamond pickaxe, I'd also be checking a diamond sword, a book, a bow, and maybe an armor piece or two. I might not get the Silk Touch, but the bow will get infinity at level 26, so I'll enchant that instead. Check again, and I can get Fortune III as early as level 28, so no need to go all the way to 30 this round. No Silk Touch again, but the sword can get fire aspect II at level 30, or I can get Feather Fall III at level 26 on my boots. Oooh, look! I can get Unbreaking II on the book for one level this time around!

So far, in the games I've started in the 1.8 snapshots, I've gotten Silk Touch on my pickaxe long before I've come even close to fully kitting myself out, and I think I've gotten a grand total of two enchantments (on books IIRC) that I've considered a complete waste.

Yes, higher levels cost more XP, but lower levels (where you'll be doing the bulk of your repairing) cost less XP, and at worst an enchantment only costs you 3 levels. I think it's a good trade off: much easier and cheaper custom enchanting, in exchange for not being able to repair an item forever.

Here you go. Haven't tested it since the last couple of snapshots, but as far as I can tell, it's still fairly accurate.

The fun part of this new progression is that the first ten levels are actually cheaper than the old one. After level 11, the cost starts going up, but then you don't have to spend all your levels for a single level 30 enchant.

Level XP to Level Up Total XP
1 7 7
2 9 16
3 11 27
4 13 40
5 15 55
6 17 72
7 19 91
8 21 112
9 23 135
10 25 160
11 27 187
12 29 216
13 31 247
14 33 280
15 35 315
16 37 352
17 42 394
18 47 441
19 52 493
20 57 550
21 62 612
22 67 679
23 72 751
24 77 828
25 82 910
26 87 997
27 92 1089
28 97 1186
29 102 1288
30 107 1395
31 112 1507
32 121 1628
33 130 1758
34 139 1897
35 148 2045
36 157 2202
37 166 2368
38 175 2543
39 184 2727
40 193 2920
41 202 3122
42 211 3333
43 220 3553
44 229 3782
45 238 4020
46 247 4267
47 256 4523
48 265 4788
49 274 5062
50 283 5345

edit: crap.... need to format it. *starts editing again*
edit2: that's better
edit3: gol dang it!
edit4: better than nothing

Quote from Ouatcheur

Remember that little line "levels will now cost more XP to gain.". We do not know how much more.
50% more? Twice as much? TEN times as much? Will the scaling be even more exponential or what?
We just do not know. But from what I can see right now, enchanting has become super easy.

The new level progression is this:

XP for level 1 = 7,

XP for level 2-16 = XP for previous Level + 2

XP for levels 17+31 = XP for previous level + 5

XP for levels 32+ = XP for previous level + 9

I haven't tested it past level 50, primarily because I doubt I'd ever have that many levels at any time.

Quote from marfig

Your mistake is calling people cheaters. The usual escape route of anyone who can't understand the phenomena but must still have to have a word for people who play on the limit of Minecraft rules. In your high pedestal of morality you just don't realize that in the end you are just another representative of human weakness. Another one who dislikes those they cannot understand. We probably eat your babies too.

I'd probably want to know why you call these people cheaters. Why do you feel the need to give them such a vile status without even trying to understand the motivations in building/engineering/architectural game such as Minecraft. But I'm afraid I'll become nauseated by your high authoritarian morals and absolutists view of how Minecraft should be played.

It is you who has to explain, not anyone else. You are the one qualifying a very large number of Minecraft as cheaters. You are the one that needs to do the explaining.

What people do in their single player games is their own business. Use exploits, use the /give command, switch to creative for all I care. Your single player game doesn't affect me in the slightest.

But once you start playing with other people, then it stops being your game. And what you do, directly or indirectly, affects other people. When a small group of players starts using exploits to get ahead, it tends to ruins the fun for everyone else... namely the majority who are playing by the rules of the game. They find themselves unable to compete in PvP, unable to compete economically, and sometimes unable to play at all, because they even get dominated in PvE.

Which is why game developers are constantly fixing exploits and tweaking game balance.

Quote from StinkySauce

Of course building a farm isn't cheating, and of course you know that. But that's not the point. You're the kid at the party who complains when someone brings the wrong flavor of chips. You want a party where everyone looks like you, tells the same jokes, eats exactly the same food, and enjoys exactly the same refreshing non-alcoholic beverage.

And I'm saying, I don't go to those kinds of parties.

And I don't go to those kind of parties, either.

I also don't go to parties where everyone is so competitive that they bring loaded dice and marked cards so they can "win." Because what makes games fun is not the winning, but the spirit of competition between players. When one player decides to win at all costs, it comes at the cost of everyone else in the game.

It is not unreasonable to join a golf league, and expect those playing it not to kick the golf ball from under a tree so they don't have to take a penalty stroke. It is not being unreasonable to participate in a marathon, and expect those running not to inject themselves with their own red blood cells to boost their endurance. And it is not being unreasonable to expect players in an online game not to take advantage of exploits to get ahead of everyone else, nor is it being unreasonable to expect game developers to fix those exploits when they come to their attention.

I know you feel otherwise, but.if there's a rule that says, "You're not allowed to trip the runner ahead of you," then it exists because someone actually did that, and then piously claimed, "But it's not against the rules. Stop ruining my fun!"

Quote from Alumio24

So recently I have been playing in the snapshot and I have done a lot of enchanting at my end farm and I got pretty much the best gear you can get with ease. I then made a video Showing how to get the best gear very easily within Minecraft. I want your guys opinions. Is the new enchanting system too op? In my opinion it takes out some of the fun and randomness of enchanting but I like it because it takes out the grindy work or making multiple items until you get the enchants you want.
Also if you enjoyed the video please sub.

No. Its that enderman farm that's overpowered, not the new enchanting system. The old enchanting system was overpowered if you had an enderman farm. Any enchantment system is overpowered, if you have a source of large amounts of easy XP.

The new enchanting system removes the most frustrating aspects of the old system: the extreme randomness, and the high penalties of having bad luck. The old enchanting system worked best for basic enchantments, but if you wanted the special enchantments like silk touch, fortune, looting, among others, then it was an exercise in extreme frustration combined with a lot of grinding for diamonds and XP... especially if you don't use XP farms.

Quote from StinkySauce

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

Why? Does bringing loaded dice or marked cards make parties more fun?

Does rules lawyering and min-maxing make people popular in RPG groups?

Do you really have to cheat to have fun?

Please explain this to me.

Quote from brabbit1987

The issue is that others dive into the coding and abuse their knowledge. Simply put, there isn't anything that can really be done about that. It also has nothing to do with single or multiplayer. It was something that was never intended for either.

Again though ... this is minecraft, exploits will never be solved as long as they continue to add things. Not with this community. Let's put it this way .. day 1 release of a snapshot and they already figured out how to steal wheat from villagers and make an auto wheat farm lol.

One can try to go against this and prevent all these issues and fail doing it, or one can join and simply improve on these "features".

It's a battle the devs will never win, as it is an argument you will never win.

If you want something with stricter rules and gameplay, you are going to need to find a game with all that set in stone where mods are not a big part of the game. Mods usually mean the game is naked and open to exploiting more easily.

Good point, one I've never considered before. I'm probably showing my age when I say I've never understood the popularity of modding myself. It seems too much like cheating, IMO, in more ways in one.

Probably why I soured on fanfiction as well.

Quote from Tallarian

>Find a village at spawn
>Food for about 20 hours in start of the game
Changed that now. Villages was created long long ago. it was an obvious ''exploit'' to teal from villagers

I'm pretty sure you were being sarcastic, but I've never raided villages for food. First because it was stealing, even if they are mere NPCs, second because it made the game far too easy. Survival Minecraft is easy enough as it is. No need to make things easier by taking advantage of exploits.

Quote from Divinius

Did we really need another thread talking about iron farms?

no, probably not

But I have a lunch hour to kill at work, so I'll reply anyway.

The primary source of the issue is that there are six separate games, using the same engine: creative, survival, adventure, both single-player and multi-player versions.

What works in creative doesn't work in survival; what works in single-player doesn't work in multiplayer; and what's needed for adventure definitely doesn't work for survival.

The secondary source of the issue are some poor decisions by Mojang when they added villages and villagers to the game. The biggest was an overly simplistic house detection: a house could be defined with a door and a single block, whereas a proper house has not only a door, but walls, a floor, and a roof. It is the recognition of non-house like houses that permitted ultra-dense "villages" to exist. Confining village detection to a narrow band of Y-coordinates and a small spawning area for golems didn't help any.

The tertiary source of the issue is that different people emphasize different aspects of the game. For me, the whole "monsters come out of the dark to kill you" is far more important than "building wonderous things." Yes I build wonderous things, but I do so while giving monsters a fighting chance to kill me, and once I'm done with the wonderous thing, I start a new game. No mods, no cheats enabled, and no exploiting bad AI and poor game design. Pure vanilla survival minecraft, usually with natural regeneration turned off and maybe in hardcore mode to give the monsters an edge.

If this was only a single-player game, this wouldn't be an issue. But this has a multi-player mode, and once two people share the same world, it no longer becomes MY game and YOUR game. It becomes OUR game and what one player does will affect the other.

Yes, I very much understand why some people like utilizing exploits to get ahead in survival. It takes time to gather resources, and the old enchantment system was excessively random, and needlessly punitive of bad luck. But there is a game mode that gives unlimited resources: creative. And a great deal of the punitive nature of of the old enchanting system was due to players simply not using the system to its fullest.

That's all I have time for unfortunately.

Quote from marfig

You weren't around here when "game exploits" as-you-call-it where actually appreciated by the creator of this game, were you? Guess not...

Yes, I was. And I was also here when Jeb said he considered mob farms item dupes.

And while I appreciate Notch as the creator, its fairly obvious that he didn't always fully think out the ideas he had. Jeb has been fixing a lot of Notch's mistakes, and turning Minecraft into a much better game. Of course, Jeb has made his fair share of mistakes, primarily because ideas that will work great in single player don't work in multi-player, as many, many online game developers have discovered, to their dismay and frustration.

Case in point: village detection.

Just one more reason why I'm glad I play survival Minecraft as intended, and avoid using obvious exploits. When they finally fix the broken game logic that permits them, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

I'm excited about the ability to put buttons on the ceilings and floors.

I'm even more excited about comparators reading the orientation of item frames. They make great dials.

Quote from brabbit1987

Funny that non of these what ifs happened, and here we are in the here and now.

Yes .. things can be different and they could make things harder. Which is fine. But it doesn't matter unless they remove the iron from iron golems entirely. Which they won't do. So keep talking. Cause nothings going to change

My major complaint with iron farms and infinite breeders is that they obviously exploit flaws in the village system. Especially that iron trench monstrosity that, while I respect the amount of effort to figure out how to exploit those flaws to that degree, required hack... er, making a mod to do so. Seeing one of those things on a survival server just screams, "look at me! I'm exploiting Mojang's mistakes!"

If, for example, house detection required something that looked like a house, what you get isn't something that is screaming its unnaturalness at the top of its lungs. Instead, what you get is a village with a dark secret. And imagine what would happen if you accidentally fell into one of the traps in that village.

Quote from IronMagus

"Only"? You're playing it pretty fast-and-loose with the word "only" there, bud.

You're right. I am oversimplying things.

There's also the fact that iron golem spawning is so predictable that it's easy to capture them and move them out of the range of the "village." Having them spawn anywhere within the village would've increased the investment cost to an iron farm.

And the fact that a house can be defined by a door and a single block. House detection being more robust, so that it needed a door, four walls, a floor plan of at least 3x3, and a roof would've increased the investment cost to an iron farm.

And the fact that villages can be layered one on top of the other. Having village boundries range from y=0 to y=255, rather than on a narrow plane, would've increased the investment cost to an iron farm.

And last but not least, the fact that iron golems drop iron in the first place. If Mojang hadn't done that, there'd be no iron farm controversy in the first place.

Quote from PopuliMinistrum

http://www.minecraft.../#entry28140925
https://twitter.com/...952385417773056
It seems like Jeb has heard the community and iron/gold farms are staying as they are.

And so an item duplication exploit will remain in the game, because too many people liked it...

One more reason not to play multi-player, I guess.