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    posted a message on Enderman Is Sabotage!
    Wow . . . I'm a die-hard cynic and I did not expect this kind of response from Notch over the issue. I'm very glad to see that Notch is listening to the community and at least acknowledging the displeasure with Endermen.

    Nerf away, Notch! Thanks for your ear!
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Enderman Is Sabotage!
    Arrrgh! Double post! Sometimes this server is the pits!
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Enderman Is Sabotage!
    I hate to get you hopes down further, but notch might make it in 1.9 that mobs won't drop anything at all unless a player kills it.


    Truthfully, I never built traps for the item drops. That was just a way to keep score. I build them to watch mobs die in gruesome and creative ways. There's just no way a night of hunting - even with a glittery sword - could ever compare to watching twenty creepers fall to their deaths after being set on fire.

    As we speak, I'm redesigning my mob towers to not only slaughter mobs en masse again, I'm pretty sure I've got a way to make an Enderman killing floor so I can enjoy seeing those block-stealing bastiches sizzle to their deaths in water streams.

    Personally, I can't see any real benefit to the XP system in Minecraft since leveling up is pretty meaningless. What are you gonna do? Mine a little faster? Meh. Better to kill the mobs and not have to deal with the memory-killing XP orbs IMHO.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Enderman Is Sabotage!
    I've been giving this issue a lot of thought, and giving 1.8.1 as fair a chance as I can while I do.

    I've come around to the conclusion that Notch and company aren't going to change Endermen behavior, no matter how much controversy it generates. At best, they'll lower the spawn rate like they did with passive mobs when cows and pigs would swarm any torch at night.

    Truthfully, as much as I love Minecraft, Notch has a pretty rotten history of listening and responding to the community. Unless Endermen can be demonstrated to cause game-killing bugs and crashes, the block-stealing is probably here to stay.

    It kills me, and I wish I could believe that this controversy might drive them to at least address the problems that we have with this new mob (those of us who do, that is), but the overwhelming likelihood is that all our mighty constructions and traps from 1.7 and earlier will have to be retired, redesigned and rebuilt. Any landscaping you want to remain intact will require torch-spamming and gobs of water.

    Welcome to 1.8.1 I suppose.

    This is a great thread, and even the disrespectful and trolling posts have brought up some good arguments and rebuttals (well, some of them anyway), and I'm glad you started it, OP. But I have no faith that our displeasure with the way this mob changes the way we can play the game will have any impact on Notch or his decisions on how to develop Minecraft further.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Endermen Don't Pick Up Blocks Mod
    All hail Jeffrey6978!!

    You, good sir, should have cake and :Diamond: !

    Thanks for this! Best mod of the year, IMHO.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on 1.8 Endermen Mob Farm Fix Discussion?
    Nice to have some positive news on the Endermen/Mob farm issue! Thanks for your research!

    I'm pulling up a chair to see what you come up with!

    I wouldn't mind downloading your trap (or a schematic of it) to do some testing myself!

    Thanks!
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Enderman Is Sabotage!
    Also, i'd like to point out, that, despite Minecraft being a sandbox genre where you can build anything, giant mob killing factories, are, in a sense, cheating. Yes they're fantastic in their construction and redstone work, but they're not in the true spirit of the game and really does take away from it. I do understand not wanting to grind for items like gun powder, but come on, you probably use Too Many Items anyways.


    But this isn't for you to decide. There isn't any single user experience that's "the true spirit of the game," the true spirit of the game is that survivors can play it the way they like, and trap builders can play it the way they like, and we're all still playing Minecraft.

    The assumption that mob traps are an extension of laziness is just as unfair and inaccurate as the assumption that survivalists are just not creative enough to tackle something as massive and complex as a mob trap.

    Just because you don't understand why a player likes a style of play that you, yourself, do not is in no way an indication that your method of play is somehow more legitimate than mine. To assume characteristics about different players, such as the use of third-party inventory editors, is lazy and, at this point, given the articulate rebuttals offered to such a weak argument, akin to trolling.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Enderman Is Sabotage!
    Quote from bubwubster

    actualy what you said is true... pure survival is not as creative and hard as building things such as mob traps. again thats why i love builing my castle..and live in huts only for a while..and i never said my way was better..and again i agree that everyone has there own play style and i hope they do put a slider to adjust what they can and cant do,.what i dont think people are seeing is both ways are right..and nuthing needs to be fixed...just a slider to be added... i for one still love to build.. if i wanted survival only why would i be on minecraft? though to state the truth..when Skyrim comes out i wont even touch minecraft for a good few weeks.. the players of minecraft are very unique and we all must see that..


    I don't know that I agree that "nothing needs to be fixed," given the amount of irritation that this one aspect of one mob has created in the community. A slider or toggle switch would certainly address the complaints, but I'm not sure that's the best solution.

    I really don't have too much of a problem with the Endermen's ability to move blocks, it's interesting and unique. What I have a problem with is their *unrestricted* ability to move blocks. The mischief and damage potential of this behavior, in my opinion, ruins game balance and severely impacts any desire I have to spend the time and effort necessary to realize the massive mega-constructions that were hallmarks of Minecraft.

    If there was some way to prevent them from moving *certain* blocks, or conditions you could create that would prevent them from moving blocks, or anything along those lines, I wouldn't have any problem with them. As you've pointed out, adapting to creepers and the wall-climbing abilities of spiders was something the community took in stride.

    This Endermen behavior seems like little more than pointless griefing specifically designed to aggravate players. There is no rhyme or reason to it, and Endermen don't do it for any reason other than to . . . put holes in things. Spiders climb walls because, well . . . that's what spiders DO. Creepers explode, but they can't just go off and blow up on their own . . . the player has to trigger that behavior. Endermen, however, are free to destroy at their whim and fancy and the player may not even be aware it's happened until it's too late and their lava-based lighthouse has burned down their entire base.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Enderman Is Sabotage!
    Quote from bubwubster

    well you see this proves my point.. Minecraft has a large verity of players each with there own goals.. for its gather enough cobble to make a 60x80 Castle as i do in every map/server i go in..and then i move to a new location and start again... i used to use mob traps to gather gunpowder for TNT..to get said cobble. and im glad to see someone els state there opinion in a non aggressive tone. and i say thanks for that. to Me Endermen are a way of Notch saying "B*tch.. Now what?" and having us actually have to think to have a response. i feel it brings back that " F*** YOU YA D*MN CREEPER!!!" Feel to it... when you see a creeper walking you way you would **** your self...the Endermen bring that aspect up in a new way.. we all complained about creeper's but Notch did nothing. and we are glad he didnt for we found the fun in them..yes they **** us off still...same as skeletons but we are Mincrafters!! we will find a way to beat them XD...and just be glad there not like the orcs from Mocreatures mod


    I completely understand your point. What I'm saying is that currently the game is very good for your preferred style of play, but *my* preferred style of play is no longer really possible as things are.

    I worked for a long time to understand mobtraps and their construction. I built several ones that didn't work well before I came upon a design I liked to look at AND worked well. I went through several worlds experimenting with building and forms and had a lot of fun doing it, even when something I tried didn't work.

    Now, I feel like all that work was wasted because of an addition that allows the undoing of my work with no method to prevent it. I'm not interested in a white-knuckle session of survival, the idea of living in a rough hut and hunting mobs every night doesn't appeal to me, and no amount of Hoo-Rah cheerleading is going to make a survival-style game fun when what I want to play is a building and crafting game. I could just as easily say to you that survival style of play doesn't take anywhere near the creativity and forethought that mobtrap and castle planning does and therefore, isn't as valid and nothing to worry about.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Enderman Is Sabotage!
    Quote from bubwubster

    ok, people. i am the middle man.. before the endermen i used to build mobtraps and just gather and build. and i loved to do it.. but when i got the pre release of 1.8 endermen said no to failing with there mob friends and broke free.. so i changed my design.. it didn't work.. i started to get mad and was pissed.. after TNTing the now fail death trap and my house destroyed i started a new world. i started playing the game a different way and hunted more...instead of a mansion i live in a hut now.. i play the game on hard and creeper's are everywhere and i love it. im smarter with my builds and love the way Endermen try to mess my stuff up.. i can get about 30 gunpowder a night from hunting and not have to worry about my house cause i built moats, pit falls and other traps. i use more strategy and very careful. Endermen made me survival for what it actually is... SURVIVAL. if endermen loose this ability i will be saddened for they made this game more active..made you stay on your toes.. i like to hunt now and it dasnt take long at all... come morning i harvest my crops and kill of what creepers are left...at night i mine in my caves and hunt what i find in there.. or just go out and hunt..im always exploring now and not just sitting in one place.. OP you may not agree with me but i felt the urge to state my opinion... i even just signed up to try and have you see it our way.. i enjoy the endermen for they made a new challenge i want to defeat..and so far it's working... and i do hope you attempt to change that will fail.. sorry to say that but old ways must change sometime.. though i do see your point of view for i was once like that.. not saying my way is better for you may not like to do that stuff. just saying maybe its time to try something new? (i hope you do read this and comment back OP would like to know your thoughts and anyone else who read this) Good luck on your goal OP


    It's good to see that Endermen opened a new experience to you, but I'm of the opinion that a sandbox game shouldn't have one style of play endorsed over another.

    If you're happy having the game reduced to a survival game, then the Endermen are just another challenge that you can easily adopt into your playstyle.

    However, there was another aspect of Minecraft and that was the building. I really enjoyed the challenge of creating functional and aesthetically pleasing mobtraps. I really enjoyed the idea of building massive fortresses and keeping the wild mobs outside of it through clever traps and canal systems.

    No offense, but the survival-style game you described doesn't appeal to me. I have no problem with a hard struggle in the beginning of the game, but I like to know that I can work towards something larger than a simple hut in the wilderness and a night of frenzied hunting just to replace my fishing rod.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Enderman Is Sabotage!
    This all said, we have to remember that we're playing a beta game, and we have the option not to update, so if we don't like what's done we have 2 choices, don't update or find solutions to deal with the problem.


    I actually wasn't given the option not to update. The game updated automatically. I made the mistake of seeing if my mobtrap would still work and after seeing the sad results, I quickly shut the game off.

    As to solutions to the problem, currently the ones I have available are fixing the damage only to see it wrought again, or just waiting until 1.9 when the behavior gets changed. Hopefully changed.

    My fear is Endermen behavior will get forgotten about and left as-is because Notch got distracted by Skyrim or something.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Enderman Is Sabotage!
    Isn't the solution just to add more light?


    The Endermen are spawning inside the mobtrap, as appropriate, and they're sabotaging it from within. Once they've taken a few chunks out of the walls, they can cripple an entire spawning floor. A few blocks out of the floor, and the canal system is ruined and water cascades into areas where I don't want it.

    This particular mobtrap was an enormous, five tower design and even with the relative rarity of Endermen spawns, they pop up enough to wreak havok in every tower on every floor.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Enderman Is Sabotage!
    I ran into the exact same issue. My magnificent mob towers that I spent a month and a half building got ripped to uselessness in minutes. Yes, I could spend four or five hours fixing all the holes, but why bother? They'll just undo all my repairs in minutes.

    This actually removes my desire to plan and build structures of any sort, since they could be riddled with holes by the morning, and if you have lava or water involved in your structure, the damage could extend well beyond just some holes in the wall.

    I think I'm done with Minecraft until 1.9. This was a game-killer for me.
    Posted in: 1.8 Update Discussion
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    posted a message on Are you annoyed when you have to get materials from FAR FAR away?
    So . . . you don't like going to your trees, but you don't want to take the time to move the trees closer to your base and you don't want to move your base closer to your trees . . .

    Well, you've pretty much made it impossible for you NOT to be annoyed, so there's not much we can offer you.

    Good luck!
    Posted in: Survival Mode
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    posted a message on Will this work? Mob grinder design
    You need some way to get them off the pad. One or two *might* suicide, but nothing on the level that you're looking for.
    Posted in: Survival Mode
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