You are basing some of this on outdated information. In snapshot 19w36a Honey Bottles changed from 9.6 Saturation to 2.4 Saturation, making them equal in Saturation to Apples and Chorus fruit, well below any cooked meats. Honey Bottles are now far less efficient than any cooked meat food source.
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Nov 4, 2019Badprenup posted a message on Campfires introduced in a snapshot along with a hint: "Think note blocks"Posted in: Discussion
There isn't anything extra or secret in that line, although I can see why you would think that based on how they wrote it. All it means is that if a Hay Bale is directly under a campfire block, the smoke it generates will go up 25 meters. If you don't put a Hay Bale underneath, the smoke only goes 10 meters. This is similar to how putting different blocks beneath a Note Block changes the instrument.
The "hint" is just a reference to how the mechanic works, where the block's function changes based on the block directly beneath it.
Nov 1, 2019Posted in: Discussion
Desert is easily in my top three favorite biomes, along with Flower Forest and Mushroom Island. I like all three for the same reasons, they come with a kind of peaceful serene feeling that I don't get in most other biomes.
I like how open and vast the desert can be and the sand is both visually pleasing and it sounds nice when you move around on it. It could use a bit more content but what biome couldn't?
Oct 29, 2019Posted in: Suggestions
I agree, telling people to just get a better computer is not an appropriate response to a suggestion.
I'm okay with the idea. It isn't really any different from the Sheep eating the regular grass except that it would be slightly faster, but that time saving is offest in the time you need to spend to collect the grass.
Oct 29, 2019Badprenup posted a message on Sleeping without setting your spawn point (Sleeping without a bed)Posted in: Suggestions
I'd say half the total hunger is too much. I'd rather a debuff that causes Hunger to drain at an accelerated rate for 2 minutes or something instead.
Oct 24, 2019Badprenup posted a message on Sleeping without setting your spawn point (Sleeping without a bed)Posted in: Suggestions
What about the fact that people have done so for tens or hundreds of thousands of years and millions still do every day?
That said, being able to skip the night no matter where you are with no risk seems to be unbalanced. At least with the system as it is you have the drawback of losing your preferred spawn point. There would need to be some drawbacks to this before I would support it. Maybe it doesn't reset the timer for Phantoms, or you suffer from some kind of debuff the next morning, or something to make it more balanced.
Otherwise you might as well just turn the daylight cycle off until you want to see hostile mobs, since you have a free way to sleep anywhere with no risks or reasons not to.
Oct 16, 2019Posted in: Suggestions
Instead of an actual block light update, it could be handled via a shader or lighting effect and only when the horse is being ridden. A shader wouldn't prevent mob spawns because it isn't "real light" but if the range of the effect is the same range as a normal torch it won't matter because hostiles don't spawn that close to the player anyways (unless from a spawner).
Oct 16, 2019Posted in: Discussion
Based on the current replies there seems to be some general confusion about what you want but I'll try to help.
The problem with enchanting books is four-fold. First, books have a lower "enchantability level" than anything else, which makes it less likely to get good enchantments on them in general.
Second, books are less likely to have multiple enchantments compared to other items. Partially because of the lower enchantability, and also because there is an additional mechanic attached to books when using an enchanting table. If the game is set to put more than 1 enchantment on a book via enchanting table, it will remove one of the enchantments at random. This is all determined before you even enchant the book, so you can't see it happening. Those two things mean books usually only have the enchantment the table shows you before enchanting it.
Third, because books can be enchanted at an enchanting table with anything besides treasure enchantments, the overall pool of items you can get is higher, which means the chance of getting a specific enchantment is much lower. Before getting into the "weight" of different enchantments consider that a Pickaxe can have 4 different enchantments added from an enchanting table. So Fortune would be a 1/4 chance of being applied (again, the is ignoring the "weight" of enchantments). Meanwhile a book can get 33 different enchantments, making the chance of any particular one being 1/33.
Lastly, the "weight" of an enchantment matters. Each enchantment has a value that makes it more or less likely to appear when enchanting. The higher the value, the more likely you will get it. Fortune has a weight of 2, which makes it appear way less than say Protection or Sharpness, which each have a weight of 10.
So in summary, everything about how the enchanting system is built is working against you in this particular scenario. If you want Fortune on a specific item, you are better off making that item and if you don't see it in the table, enchant something else to reroll the enchantments and try again later.
Or try to find one a different way of finding enchanted books. I seem to have better luck finding Fortune books while fishing, because I usually pick up enough random treasure to make a Luck of The Sea, Lure, Mending fishing rod pretty quick which makes finding enchanted books pretty safe and easy, although kind of tedious.
Oct 9, 2019Posted in: Discussion
Exactly zero. I've never thought the reward for getting a Wither Star was worth the effort involved in going after one. As much as I like Minecraft, the bosses and the rewards for fighting them is one of my least favorite parts of the game.
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Feb 11, 2018JJ48car posted a message on Why is there no gamerule or button to switch between the pre-1.9 and 1.9 combat?Posted in: Discussion
Didn't 1.9 release nearly two years ago? Maybe the "controversy" would vanish if the few remaining hold-outs were to simply learn how to fight post-1.9?
Oct 15, 2017C1ff posted a message on What version did you think Minecraft went wrong for you? [POL]Posted in: Discussion
None of them.
I have an optimistic look on the future of Minecraft. Unlike other people, I'm not interested in whining about my nostalgic experiences with one version or another. To me, it's okay if Mojang makes a bold decision. If I don't like it, I do my best to ignore it. If I can't ignore a new decision, it's not like I can't fall back on other games.
One example is the Llama: I personally think that llamas are a silly addition, and kinda pointless. But they're rare and I don't see them spawn much, so it's not like they've ruined the game for me. I still play it.
A lot of people complain about 1.7 terrain generation... But a lot of people complain about the map generation before that. Honestly, I think the new terrain looks just fine, and it's not like I can't landscape it if I want to. (Heck, if I'm gonna spend time on a build, I might as well landscape it.)
I really wish less people would have this pessimistic attitude on what Mojang does with their game. It's not gonna be the same forever. The textures are gonna be updated, the rendering engine is going to improve, and in the future, Minecraft's whole style might even change. (You know all those ridiculous suggestions about adding modern cars, trains, or rockets into the game? Those might not be that ridiculous in the future if Minecraft lasts a long time.)
(And the truth is: I spend a lot of time on older versions that have good mods or modpacks too. It's not like Mojang has forced me into having one specific experience with Minecraft, I can go back and play old versions, and add the mods to them that I like. Heck, I wonder why Minecraft gets so much complaining about versions when it's so easy to go back and play whichever ones you want to.)
Apr 4, 2017Ouatcheur posted a message on 4 sticks make a plank [Useful Survival] [literally one simple and effective addition]Posted in: Suggestions
All that argument about gluing wood together being hard misses the point. Those are trying to apply "real life" arguments to a game with obviously simplified and fantasy world mechanics and physics. Floating islands. Infinitely replicating water. eternal torches. Nobody complains about those. Similarly nobody bats an eye at 1 meter cube of logs giving 4 meters cube of planks. In real life, when you cut down logs, you get LESS planks, the extra is bark and wood shavings and useless wood cut pieces, but even if you had perfect tools and next-to-perfect logs that just happened to be square with a super-thin bark, 1 cubic meter of input stays 1 cubic meter of output, not 4. And then you have to use up 16 cubic meters of planks to make a chest that can hold thousands of tons of stone. Go figure, but nobody complains.
So yeah that "hard to glue back the sticks back into planks" argument, in the context of vanilla Minecraft game design, that is just plain just as silly as saying diamond blocks should be "lossy" because it's hard to glue back the diamonds together. Minecraft crafting is pretty much instantaneous magic, heck you can craft a whopping 64 items in one go, instantly, with a single shift-click!
So, reversible recipes should exist only for officially "gameplay needed" storage blocks, thus not for planks which come in many "flavors" of wood, while sticks come in only one type. Any block which is mostly obtained situationally or mostly from player crafting, probably doesn't deserve it's own storage block. Storage Blocks like Rotten Flesh (block) and feathers (block) are probably needed way before. And storage blocks should be perfectly reversible recipes, not lossy things. Adding a lossy sticks-back-into-planks recipe would create a game precedent in a game which. So far, went the opposite of that very "lossy" concept.
So IMHO a better way to fix this problem is not by adding reversible lossy recipes to planks, but simply by fixing deserts world generation in the first place.
Simply add "desert oasises". Those are small ponds with some grass and a bit of vegetation around them, including a couple jungle trees. Unlike small ponds in other biomes which tend to pop up litterally everywhere, oasises in deserts would be rare. Kind of like how rare pumpkin patches are. The jungle trees would be normal size and without cocoa pods (but if you find cocoa beans in a loot chest or from a zombie drop, then you're good to go for cocoa farming in deserts!).
Voilà, wood desert problem fixed in a way that would also make deserts a lot less "bland".
Heck, I'd even add a second type of common cactus that's edible. A plant-type (pass-through, not a solid block) single-block plant, looking like a little more or less roundish cactus, found in patches here and there. Only 1 Food Points and 0.6 Saturation Points. Still better than nothing!
Jul 26, 2011Posted in: SuggestionsFOR THE CRITICS
A guide on how a poster can improve the forum
As of the time of writing, this topic has been repped 300 times, viewed 67109 times, and I've seen countless times of people using the material within to improve the forum or at least improve the criticisms abounding from it.
This is baffling. I am both honored to have so many people following this thread, approving of it.
I am humbled to see it still stickied for so very longThis was a good run :). Thank you all for reading and entertaining this thread. I want to thank all of you for reading this thread and trying to work by it and encourage you to continue to do so. At the same time, Please remember that this is written by a human hand, and your judgment is the most important and valuable asset you have.
Please follow your own judgment as you post and deal with others, and use this as a tool instead of as a "critic's bible". If this tells you one thing and the rules tell you otherwise, the rules ALWAYS have precedent. Thank you all for your time.
Theriasis and crew have created an unbelievably well written thread on what to avoid when posting a new suggestion. This is a tool that you can find pinned at the top of this forum and includes ways to be a better suggester. However, it is my personal belief that making a good suggestion is only half the battle. This is a detailed guide on how to effectively critique a suggestion.
There are times where we all (I am far from an exception here) do not wish to take a great deal of time to critique a suggestion. We would all just like to stamp a suggestion with a "no" and be on our merry way. To this end, I'd like to express the multitude of different ways where we can improve the forum, improve suggestions, and improve our chances to not get banned all to hell by simply doing our jobs (critiquing) without changing who we are.
I do not expect anyone or everyone to follow everything here word for word. At its most primitive, this is simply a codex of applied common sense. I only ask that you try your hardest to respect your fellow members.
This is not necessary to read but it exists in case problems arise from the multitude of different cases you meet while at the forum. While it's not necessary, it certainly won't hurt. It may be necessary if you have been warned for toxic behavior. I recommend you NOT read this entire guide at once, but one section at a time if you want to read all of it. (Give your brain a chance to chill, yo!)
Below is the table of contents detailing various problems I've seen.
The points I'd like to cover are:
⦁ Who am I and who are you?!
⦁ Sounding smart
⦁ Putting it all together
⦁ Already suggested
⦁ Effective criticising
⦁ The only thing that would make this topic better is if I accidentally killed it.
* I grief with clay!
⦁ Obviously, OP needs to hear the same criticism 300 times before he has a chance to respond.
⦁ The power of Report!
⦁ The package Combo
⦁ Slipping off the level playing field.
⦁ I can't think without you!
⦁ Denial of the fittest!
⦁ ALL CAPS MEANS I'M ANGRY!
⦁ This is bad as there is a flaw
⦁ Minecraft is ______
⦁ FTC caused MC to lag!
⦁ It's only obvious!
⦁ What to do when explanations aren't important.
⦁ Necro vs Rezzing
⦁ Infdev is the best Minecraft!
⦁ This is Minecraft, not ...
⦁ Replying and Snipping
⦁ Getting to the point by completely missing it
⦁ What the Heck is "championing"?
⦁ Tools of the trade
⦁ Notch doesn't know how to code
⦁ Duties of a critic
⦁ ♪Your wasting my time!♪
⦁ This is a suggestion!
Nice Guides Finish Last
Before we begin, this guide is an attempt to show HOW you can remain yourself WHILE ALSO remaining within the forum rules. The premise is simple; you may not have to like the idea, but at least respect the poster. This is a difficult problem and one that I think we all can use help with.
The first thing I would like to state is what defines a critic and what the roles of a critic are.
This is very simple: In a given thread there are 2 people. The Original Poster is always qualified as the suggester. Anyone else who replies is a critic. I had a humorous PM conversation with a member here where he asked a few mock-up questions about the definitions so I'll get these out here so that it's easiest to answer before the questions are asked.
Q: What if the suggester posts a reply to his suggestion?
A: He's still the suggester as it's his post.
Q: What if the suggester has an alternate account?
A: He's still the suggester.
Q: What if the alt disagrees with the suggester?
A: He's still the suggester though I would recommend a shrink.
[not asked]Q: What about the site admins?
A: as OP, suggester. As replier, critic.
Critics are counterparts to the suggester. They are there to praise the good and criticize the bad elements of a suggestion. Often, the critic will offer blind praise with 1.5 million (conservative estimate) smilies. This is an acceptable if not totally obnoxious method.
I define the term critic for use in these forums as: A critic is a poster whom replies to the suggestion with feedback remaining impartial and unbiased toward the original poster and suggestion, discussing the suggestion in terms of balance, flow, implementation, quality, usefulness, conceptualization, and understandability.
I understand the above is a tall order to handle and it is not expected of a poster to cover every part of these details in his reply; however, covering these points allows the suggester some serious and helpful detail to improve his post and is valuable even if you personally agree with the suggestion (more on that below).
Supporting details are something you'll see as a recurring theme here. What are supporting details? They're what makes your criticism relevant. They're what makes your criticism valid. They're what makes your criticism worth reading and worth replying to.
If you make a criticism and you're running into a ton of hate, you probably neglected this part.
They're actually more important than the criticism itself. Seriously. Even if the actual criticism is faulty; the supporting details are what allow others to see your thought process.
If you don't have enough time to give supporting details to back up your criticism, you don't actually have the time to make the criticism.
I am many things: impulsive, brash, arrogant, take your pick. I'm nowhere near crazy enough to suggest that there's a catch all method or way to criticize without encountering counters or opposition. There's just too many ways; and the scope and needs vary according to the suggestion in question, amount of content that needs to be addressed, other already pressed criticisms, etc. With that said, the actual scope of criticising may be immense; but they all boil down to two things.
1) the criticism/assertion – what you're criticising. It can be anything from too much lag, OP, imba, personal distaste, prevalence of related existing entities/concepts, etc.
2) the supporting details – why you're criticising? What is the thought process? This does not have to be perfect. It can be based in logic, speculation, or reasoning. However, it does have to be thoughtful. People have strong rationale and reasoning that sometimes doesn't conform to logic. Others have solid logic that frustratingly doesn't apply to behavior. Sometimes what you bring to the table is flawed. That's fine, so long as there's a root in perspective and you're okay with amending the view. The more technical or specific the criticism, the more supporting details you need to bring. i.e. If you bring a criticism of “lag city” for example: you should have a basic level of how Minecraft works and a competent ability to explain the lag or you'll meet a LOT of resistance.
This isn't going to win you any Mark Twain awards for literature, and there's a ton of other things that go into it; but so long as you have those 2 parts, you'll have the basic ingredients of a criticism.
Also, freeform quick-fire questions are also really useful here. Sometimes the best you can do to stimulate a suggestion is ask about the stats of a mob or recommend stats. This is most useful when discussing mobs, biomes, or consumables; but can be used in a lot of areas where a few questions are all that's needed to engage OP and promote discussion.
Screaming "Already Suggested" at a common idea is tantamount to spam. Yes, you heard me right. Do not state "already suggested" unless you have another one to reference. The reason is simple; the game is 5+ years old, it has a fan base where every (practically) member has posted a suggestion on the board. This game has MILLIONS of players; and millions others who would LIKE to play the game. They all contribute to the trash heap.
What are the chances of ANY suggestion ANYONE has come up with would be original by now? Law of averages is not on your side. "Already suggested" becomes a categoric insult at this point, and more statement of the obvious akin to typing "This is a collection of words on a bulletin board system". Thanks, Cleetus; we got that.
This thread was originally created before the rule of being able to create a new thread if a previous incarnation has been dead for one month or longer. With this said, if a suggestion _is_ redundant, don't blindly scream "already suggested", instead. Find a previous, more relevant, thread and link there. Report the thread. Do not tell the suggester he is being reported.
If you wish to be helpful before the inevitable lock, instead of telling the OP to use search; instead search for him, offer your choice thread as a link to check out; and then report the thread for lock. Again, Don't tell the OP he's being reported.
Unfortunately, "no"-- while valid (a statement of dislike, which means that the suggestion is not perfect) -- is not a very helpful criticism. Where does the poster improve his suggestion? What hallmarks does he go by?
Remember that one-word and two-word responses like "no" and "don't like" are against the rules. The reasoning is very simple; they do not help. Yes, they are your opinions and they are criticisms; but they help in the same way as the engine light coming on in a car. Yes, there is a problem... Now... Where?
To effectively criticize, it is important to have your personal views and beliefs take a back seat. Remember that this is a suggestion for inclusion into the game for ALL players. The OP may not have back-seated his bias, but a critic should. While cases of "I personally don't see myself using this." or "I do not prefer this mechanic" are definitely valid arguments, the OP CANNOT use this to strengthen his post. How can he improve it if you are fundamentally opposed to the basic premise? you can't? Exactly! Backseat your concerns.
What "actual" reasons do you have to say no? Difficulty? Mechanics? Cost? Fundamental problems?
Keep in mind that even if you say YES to a suggestion, it is desirable to post criticisms to further cement and improve the idea.
Finally, if you can't find a good thing to say about the suggestion; it takes less energy to press back and ignore it than it does to reply with "no". If you're going to be lazy, then be lazy.
Ever see an epic length suggestion that you cannot find the time to read? Ever post TL;DR? Yeah?! Don't.
TL;DR is NOT a breakdown in communication, it is a refusal to do so. TL;DR means you haven't read the suggestion, so you HONESTLY have no freaking idea what the suggestion is talking about in the first place, so you are admitting that you don't understand the concept of the thread; won't bother to understand it, and are speaking totally from the limited scope of your voided personal opinion. This is a personal pet peeve, and one that a serious critic should stamp out as quickly as possible.
Expectedly (It's almost a slippery slope except this one is a predictable and regularly arrived-at result) this is considered flaming.
KILLING ME WITH KINDNESS
"Killing me with kindness" is all about killing the very thread you're trying to promote. This is usually done by brick-walling discussion with "support" or "partial support".
Look guys, I think it's neat-o that you support the suggestion, but adding in your thoughts or feelings on why you like it, which settings you can use it in, or what would make the suggestion even better. Otherwise, keep it to yourself. No one wants to read blind or baseless praise.
Often the good intentions of the poster may end up creating a red herring that can distract the discussion. In cases of a new thread, these good intentions are not enough to spark meaningful conversation to keep the thread alive. If you like the thread, and want to promote it; then find creative ways to spark conversation to keep it thriving instead of just going with a little “support” or “parsup”.
Supporting details, even when positive!
This one is about the tried and true criticism that yoshi9048 definitely can't touch! "People could use this for griefing!"
Or... maybe, just maybe... I might have something to say about it. STOP IT! Now brah, I know what you're thinking; but hear me out! Put your ear to your monitor and hear the words on this screen! Alright, now that everyone near you thinks you're crazy; I'm going to say "stop using it". It's copy pasta. It's basically the can of soup argument all over again. You easily can apply this criticism to a can of soup and be correct!
In fact, "it can be used for griefing" is so ubiquitous that I wouldn't be surprised if it outweighed Herobrine on the suggestions forum. Why do I say that? I can think of any item or feature already in Minecraft and state with full certainty and without batting an eye; it can be used to grief. Name anything, and I can create a paranoid system where it can be abused to devastating effect by anyone with an inclination to use it in such a way.
Which is to say, the suggestion is being denied by something outside of the scope of the suggestion; the malicious intent of another individual. This is the suggestions forum, not the server-nanny forum. With that being said; if you have a solid and plausible case where the idea can be easily exploited or abused unwittingly; then feel free to post your argument; but be very careful to keep your "it can be used to grief" to cases where a lot of detrimental harm can come from a suggestion with few positive elements.
Dogpiling is bad, also don't dogpile. Make sure you don't dogpile while you're at it. If you could be so kind, don't dogpile.
So this one is an issue that arises from what I'd consider a non-issue.
The NON-ISSUE: Echoing Fury - multiple critics make the same criticism, neglectful (whether intentional or just from lack of reading a (often multiple page long) thread) of other's contributions.
The ISSUE: Group Bullying. Let me explain. As people are ridiculed for an error in judgment or logical flow, it becomes more natural to demonize the outgroup. You, as the in-group would naturally feel justified. In the right. There is obvious social pressure to continue to castigate the suggester. Repeating the same criticisms as others, becoming more empowered to dehumanize the OP. As a thread progresses, and redundant criticism piles on; so does the appearance of a relaxation toward rules and decorum. At the end, it's possible that the OP of these threads are not even seen as worthy of basic human respect anymore, which is disingenuous at best.
The non-issue is always there. Solidarity of opinion is quite important. It allows the poster to know that it's not an isolated opinion, but a genuine problem with his design. This type of feedback, especially when given by multiple sources from different regions is always a good thing.
The issue is there though. And it's magnified by OPs natural denial. Being told that an idea you commit to the aether as a representative of you; your identity, your tastes, is now considered "bad" or "flawed" is humbling. It's a hard pill to swallow, I'd expect anyone to become recalcitrant toward the criticism. But when these criticisms are aggregated by multiple posters. It's easy to feel like you're being bullied. It doesn't help when critics instinctively ARE bullying due to falsely-perceived relaxed restrictions.
The point here is what I call dogpiling. It's where one person is tackled, and increasing number of people add to the weight of the tackle. While it's a good idea to show solidarity of opinion, if a critic already handled the criticism; there's not much point in restating it. It's already there. Use your up-votes if you agree. Try to avoid turning ugly.
Remember, these suggesters help keep the community alive. Work with them, become their friend. They could one day become a great force for a forum. The last thing we need is for you to drag down the forum by forming a collective mob identity.
There is a nifty button below each player's avatar that allows the poster untold power.
Well, not really. However, you will find the Report button under each person. I want to go over the basic etiquette of using it, when you should, and when you shouldn't.
The report button does not ban the poster, nor does it shoot lightning bolts. It simply brings attention to a moderator to allow them to sort out the problem. However, it is a vital tool and necessary to use on several occasions.
One thing I would like to note to everyone, not simply critics; if you are to report someone, don't be THAT guy. You know. Don't be the one that goes and tells the person that they've been reported. All that causes is petty revenge scheming and forces things downhill. You know that road to hell? You'd be walking it.
I'll list it this way. If you're going to report someone:
1) do NOT tell the person he's being reported.
2) do NOT tell the person he's being reported.
3) report him
4) do NOT tell the person he's being reported.
5) do NOT tell the person he's being reported.
6) press back and leave the thread
DO NOT TELL THE PERSON HE'S BEING REPORTED. I can't be any clearer, consider this to be your warning.
It is important to note that it is wise to use the Report button when material is questionable or worse. If you have a gut feeling that the post is against the rules, but can't put your finger on it; report with a full reason. If you're wrong, no harm no foul. If you're right, the post will be locked/deleted and the poster may/may-not receive a warning/ban or possibly a slap on the wrist in a worst case.
Here are what I view as no-harm-no-foul reports because the poster isn't harshly punished.
⦁ Wishlists - LOCKED
⦁ Posted in wrong forum - MOVED
⦁ Redundant Suggestion - LOCKED
⦁ Off topic - LOCKED
Mild to major penalties arise from flaming, trolling, disrespect to admins/fellow members, continuously locked or moved topics.
Insta-ban penalties arise from hate (religious, gender, racial prejudice), trivializing horrendous events (trivializing the holocaust for the lolz >_>), or pornography.
Remember that reporting is a right of forum members; treat it and others with respect.
AS EASY AS TV DINNER!
This section is all about prepackaged criticisms and my general response to them. "Don't use them". Consider: If you can pick up a criticism and use it toward a can of tomato soup; it's probably not stable enough to use as a criticism of another member's work. Prepackaged (also called ad lib or copypasta cop-outs by me) criticisms are:
⦁ This would cause lag.
⦁ This isn't very popular.
⦁ This would be too hard to code.
⦁ Not enough detail
⦁ Too much detail
⦁ You can do this in command blocks
⦁ I don't think it would fit
These criticisms by themselves are horrible. If you want them to go from a useless waste of time to an actual criticism, you can start by validating your points with SUPPORTING DETAILS. Ahhh, it rears its ugly head again!
Let me be frank, unless you bother to add supporting details to your opinion; you DO NOT HAVE ONE.
I added "you can do this in command blocks" to this list for the very same reason. I can do EVERYTHING with command blocks, rendering practically every game mechanic obsolete. Command blocks cannot be used in many maps and are inaccessible without going OP. Because of this, this fails as a criticism.
THINK OF THE POOR FISH!
That reminds me. Here's another prepackaged/canned response to stop using. Of course, I'm talking about the slippery slope fallacy. If political pundits aren't able to use this without getting caught; and they have literal dozens of hours of training. There is no way an average person with no rhetorical, debate, or classical training will do any better (especially since debate and classical training trains you to avoid such responses).
So, what is slippery slope? It's where a suggestion has an unverifiable consequence without any link used to deny support. "We shouldn't add this new food because than everyone would want more food types. What's next, eating the bone marrow of skeletons?"
Y'know... Sometimes OP simply wants to add radish and radish related dishes to the game without the inclusion of any other vegetable or type of food. It just might be a thing... OR... Maybe if he WANTED other foods, he'd place them in another thread as it belongs with its own discussion.
Or, in a worst case scenario, the absolute worst case happens; this opens a door where the suggestions forum is flooded with dozens of related suggestions. This forum has (as of writing) 3128 pages of suggestions. Creating that 3129th page is going to create a time paradox that destroys universe within the greater multiverse, right?... No? Oh, then what's the issue?
Let's get back to why I say it's prepackaged garbage. Take any suggestion. ANY suggestion. Even golden ones like colored light, muskets, new biomes, etc. For added fun, let's use your suggestion. Just fill in the blank.
"If they added ___your_suggestion___ then people will want ___random_guff_that_I_think_up___. What next? ___outlandish_and_unrealistic_demands_that_have_nothing_to_do_with_OP___?!"
If they added _ then people will want _. What next? _?!
You see how easy that is? You can literally copy and paste that and enter in the fields. It's so easy I even did half the work for you. Or, how about you don't? I've already shown how this argument fails; just stop using it. Thanks!
POLLING THE AUDIENCE
Polling the audience is where you form your reason for approval or denial according to what you see as a norm.
"Not many people like wolves, so I'll say no here."
"Most people do not like this"
"This idea is unpopular"
"Wow, everyone said no to this suggestion, it must be crappy. No."
If you are going to deny something with the above or something similar, don't type anything, press back. Seriously, I don't want to read it. No one cares what you have to add to a suggestion. Why should they? What you have to say is easily swayed simply by conformity. Effectively, you don't have an opinion. Even if you did, how fickle would that opinion be? How much peer pressure would it take to change your mind? If your entire argument crutched on the amorphous blob that routinely changes standards of conformity; you become as amorphous and shambling at the group. Your opinion is not reliable as it's not influenced by points, counterpoints, or actual discussion. Your opinion is only reliant on "I hope I don't make X person or X group angry." You are invalidated.
If your post is only reflective of what you think is the majority's desire, then shut up and let the majority talk for you. You aren't representing yourself, you're representing what you THINK the majority likes. No one needs that. What do YOU think? What YOU think is important. Everyone knows what the majority thinks, all of the majorities. You don't have to parrot it back out.
Also, if you make someone angry for speaking your mind, who cares? Do you care? Why? So what if you make someone angry? They'll get over it, and hey, they may actually respect you for actually having the brass to stand on your laurels instead of sponging your opinion from someone else. Are you going to be a carpet to be walked on? Or are you going to form an opinion and speak it? There will always be people willing to be walked on; doesn't mean you have to fill that role.
I TOO AM THE WORKFLOW DIRECTOR OF MOJANG
This one is the "workflow director" problem. Refusing support of a suggestion because you think "Mojang should work on bugs/mobs/blocks/PvP/etc." is a stupid reason to deny support.
Here's the quick and dirty:
1) There is no room for communication. I mean, where does the OP go? Does he agree? Disagree? Who cares? You stalled communication while adding nothing to it.
2) The path you feel prudent for Mojang to take is inconsequential. They'll go their own path, if you want Mojang to work on a mob instead of a suggestion, THEN MAKE MOB SUGGESTIONS.
3) How the nether jelly fish is the OP supposed to not only PREDICT what you're going to say, but then make a post that affirms with you?! It's egotistical and impossible. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING the OP can do to remedy the suggestion as the only solution they have is to redirect the thread to in-line with your desired goals. Again, a selfish and irrational demand.
4) You are not the gatekeeper. You don't have an actual concept of Mojang's timetable and are in no position to demand what they should or should not work on next. Until you become president of Mojang, stop pandering to this criticism.
5) It's not a criticism. It's off-topic banter that has absolutely no bearing on a discussion. It's also modular; I can literally pick up and drop this argument into anything that isn't related to the criticism.
6) It's lazy, and if you're trying to be lazy, you just failed. Press BACK, that's even lazier and you don't have to task yourself with copypasta and posting.
Have you ever seen a suggestion you are so completely opposed to that your hair grays, your teeth start chipping, and you get an actual case of osteoporosis? No? No one does? Then stop acting like that, melodrama mama.
"THIS IS THE WORST SUGGESTION IT'LL NEVER GET ADDED AND I HOPE YOU DIE!" - First of all, turn your 10 into a 2. Second of all, statements like that will get you in jail. You're not Hulk, and gamma radiation causes cancer and death, stop 'roiding everywhere.
There is a small finite number of reasons you should ever show such bittering and all-consuming rage that it can only be expressed in torrid fits and ceaseless howls. In these occurrences, it's understandable that you SLAM ALL CAPS, KILL THE CRAP OUT OF [SHIFT]+1 (!), AND ACT LIKE YOU JUST GOT YOUR LEG CHOPPED OFF BY A RUSTY CHAINSAW!
Here's the expansive list: Revenge; Betrayal; Rape; Loss of family/friends; Excruciating Pain; prolonged starvation; violation of personal inalienable rights. Here's a highly abridged list of times you SHOULDN'T use such behavior: Someone makes a post you disagree with on the Internet.
Look, I understand that someone says something you don't like. Get over it! People say things I disagree with all the time, it's called COMMUNICATION. I use it to convey my ideas and responses, calmly to others until an agreement can be attained.
Saying "THIS IS THE WORST SUGGESTION IN THE PLANET AND WILL NEVER BE ADDED!" Only makes you look like a backwards ignorant idiot that totally refuses to communicate. This is basically the TL;DR rule all over again. If you don't plan to actually communicate, GET OFF THE FORUM. that's what the forum is there for, communicating, agreeing, disagreeing, and reaching equitable compromises.
I don't care if it's popular to hate on an idea, or if you were trying to be "cute" or "prove a point", I'm going to prove a point right now, if you type it then you look like an idiot, STFU and GTFO because I don't want to read it. It's not cute, funny, charming, or inspiring; it's only hateful and inciteful.
What can you say instead? "I disagree" - provide a reason, and go away. If you decide to go all BANE over a post and I happen to read it, I'll make a mockery out of you.
Save your melodrama for more important things than someone you'll never meet having an opinion. We have actual HUMAN EVENTS that occur that more deserve your pitiable overcompensating emotions than the first-world problem that someone feels differently over a video game.
I notice a flaw and now I'm going to harp on it!
Have you ever entered a well-made thread and had this unsettling feeling that you simply did not like the suggestion? You couldn't put your finger on it; and the rebellious part of your soul cried to be different with every positive review you've ever read? Finally, your saving grace comes! You notice a slight error in the OP's well-groomed and manicured suggestion and now the entire thing is a pile of crap!
Congratulations! You found an error in a well groomed and manicured suggestion! However, you're wrong, the suggestion is not a pile of crap and you are not a genius for pointing it out, merely a savant.
As you may have guessed, coming up with piddling trifles for denying a suggestion (untested and unverified numbers are not to your liking despite the author's repeated statements that the numbers are subject to change) (You dislike the color of the suggested mob) (the suggestion is not thematic) or other things is a cop-out.
If you can see dozens of possible applications and potential uses that you would PERSONALLY wish to obtain, why sweat the small stuff and deny the entire suggestion for one misgiving?
Though this hasn't personally hit me as annoying, I've seen fellow members grow fiercely agitated by this.
Yes, it is important to mention and note these problems as they are problems; but don't be cheap and expect perfection from very different imperfect beings. Don't deny support because something as trivial and alterable as mob color is giving you the blues.
Minecraft is this!
This isn't an issue in its own right. Many issues arise from what I like to call "hasty denial".
Concepts such as "too futuristic", "overpowered", "not thematic" are not intrinsically bad reasons for denying a reason. However, if they are provided without supporting details, they become SPAM.
Ahh, “supporting details”, that phrase again.
As a critic, it is your job to detail WHY you decline the suggestion. "not thematic" is not detailing, it's giving a reason. However, unless you support your reason; it is highly circumstantial and can be argued. You're there to post a reasonable discussion as to WHY you feel it's not thematic, not lead the OP into a meaningless debate.
It's a point of order, if your criticism is one or fewer sentences, save yourself the energy and don't post. "This is too futuristic" can be argued for ANY concept from wolves to pistons to laser rifles.
*ATTACKING THE HYDRA*
The hydra is a great mythological serpent from Greek myth which grows two new heads for each that is chopped off. It is considered to be a plague, killing thousands in its wake; and was only killed when Heracles cauterized each of the heads after chopping them off.
Now that we got that bit of Greek mythology out of the way; let me tell you what OUR forum hydra is. "Minecraft is __" often the blank is medieval, steampunk, etc. In any of these cases, you're wrong.
For The Critics has one of four lessons: Commit completely or don't commit at all, use common sense, communication is important, and have supporting details. This one waxes poetic on common sense, so expect this one to be straightforward.
"Doesn't fit" works in that way. If you were EVER curious what the exact theme of Minecraft was, it doesn't have one. I use 3 measures to legitimize this statement. The MEDIAN level of technology, the most proficient technology, and the difference between these two. The median technological level of Minecraft is pre-renaissance if we were to define it using Earth as a reference. I'd say 13th~14th century Europe would be a proper equivalent. However, the most advanced technology in the game is early/mid-20th century with the use of hoppers, trapped chests, pistons, and automated systems. Here's the problem: there's a 700-year UNEXPLAINED gulf between MC's common technology and MC's high technology. This makes its actual theme impossible to state using Earth as a reference.
Because of this, stating MC as medieval or steampunk or classical or neo-industrial would be incorrect. Instead of approving or denying a suggestion based off of an assumed setting; instead deny it or approve it on the only metric that WORKS: Intermediate Technology.
Intermediate - between
Technology - utilization of science.
In this case, intermediate technology simply means "technology that must exist for other technology to make sense." As an example: sticky pistons don't make sense unless you have pistons first. Trapped Chests require chests and tripwire hook. Smelting iron requires a furnace. Etc. As you can see, the idea is to base a suggestion's "fitting" on anything that allows it to fit instead of some flawed proposed setting.
There we go, I've attacked the hydra. Let's hope it did anything.
I was hoping I wouldn't have to add this; I was hoping the community would get this. I was wondering why people were still posting this. Then I saw that it wasn't added, people didn't see it as a "rule". So now, everywhere I go, I see people screaming "LAAAAGGG" like it means something.
Unless you justify this statement, it's unjustified. Your opinion is worthless because you haven't given it any worth. All you're doing is bumping your post count. You probably didn't even READ the thread before assuming "lol, too hard, lag"; and for many of you, you'll probably take offense here (because someone caught your lazy butts red-handed). Patience and hope for humanity has it's place, the Minecraft forums are not one of them; and because of this, this section has made a home here.
What's a "lagument"? Lagument is a portmanteau (a silly French word where you cross the word and meaning of two words to form a new word with both meanings (like modem or batarang) of lag and argument; and is often used across the board by everyone that can't find a good reason to deny a suggestion.
Can't think of a good reason to deny a suggestion you don't like? Don't like the OP? Simply say "too much lag" and be on your merry way. The problem here is that you can apply "too much lag" to EVERY SUGGESTION in this game, other sand boxes, any pc game, any console game, all games period, movies, music, pictures, any interactive media whatsoever, books, and your grandma. It's NOT A CRITICISM.
Look, this argument is stupid. "It would cause a lot of lag" or "It would probably cause lag". Unless you actually place HARD NUMBERS and REASONABLE ARGUMENTS to corroborate your assertion, you likely don't know enough about WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT to tell anyone what THEY'RE talking about. People that DO know what they're talking about will know YOU DON'T KNOW what you're talking about; and they'll call you out on it; you'll salt your own turf, call the entire community "haters/trolls" and never visit the forum again.
This is a cop-out, an unreasoned, and unprepared reason to simply deny a suggestion. Use it at your own risk. Please bear in mind that this excludes well organized and fully explained reasons for "lag" denial. It's not a fine line either; you either know what you're talking about or you don't. Because of this, be prepared to DETAIL and DEFEND your lag denial with actual facts.
Properly doing so will have one of three effects:
1) The thread is completely shut down.
2) The OP will make some bogus claim of "just upgrade your computer" or try to assuage the problem by ignoring it; trivializing it; or redirecting to keep a positive spin on a topic you thoroughly destroyed.
3) The OP will ignore you or insult you and proceeds to salt his own turf.
I mean, everyone knows that!
One of the things that isn't really prominent but does tend to grind at me a bit is a sentiment of universal understanding. Getting this train started right to ship off all this fail; "UNIVERSAL UNDERSTANDING" does not exist. Heck, it's a struggle to settle for "PARTIAL" understanding. Compromise? Is that an alcoholic beverage?
The first thing that any critic should do is assume that everyone on the page has the relative IQ of tree sap. The second thing that any critic should do is assume that these people are unwilling to change their views unless a significant amount of evidence contradicts their personal beliefs. At which point, you'll still have die-hards holding onto their reality to the point where proof exists as a mere contrivance and is as fraudulent as the poster regardless of verifiable claims.
To this point; there is no true understanding as we all live different lives. We have all had different past experiences. Perhaps you are the victim of domestic abuse; perhaps you grew up in a broken home; perhaps your parents are victims of chemical addiction (drugs and/or alcohol).
These all are measures which define us and show us how truly different we are from one another. One person can take a simple word and define it completely different from another.
The point of all of this is: Unless you have a frame of reference, nothing is obvious, and nothing is self-evident.
Keep in mind that I mention "frame of reference" for a reason. We can all make a safe assumption that everyone on Earth has seen rain and can obviate that each droplet of precipitate is "wet" and unabridged exposure to the precipitation will get the target entity wet as well.
However, frames of reference cannot be tacked on carelessly to any situation. This is where most people (independent of their intellect/education) screw up. A physicist may be able to describe the nature of the atom; and a meth-head may be able to make meth in his "lab", but it doesn't mean that the physicist would understand how to make meth any more than the meth-head could split the atom.
I've seen too many posters hone in with "DO U HONESTLY NOT NO THAT IT WERKS LIK DIS!?" You know; they may have an IQ of 180 and NOT know that. Just because you know a useless bit of trivia doesn't mean everyone does; open your scope and learn to accept differences in others.
Until you do this; expect to get warned and banned and flamed yourself.
I have the final word!
CREDITS FOR THIS SECTION: ANONTHEMOUSE
There is a distressing habit in posters to say things like "end of discussion", "/thread", or perhaps worst of all "this will never be added".
You really do not want to be the one to say one of these. Like the person in a horror movie who confidently states, "We're safe now.", you're setting yourself up to be proven tragically wrong. You may be feeling quite proud of yourself for delivering what you see as a final killing blow to a bad idea, but that isn't how it's going to turn out. In fact, saying that the issue is settled will almost guarantee that it continues, as people offended by your flippant tone either ignore your post outright, or continue arguing just to make you wrong.
Worse, statements such as these can weaken your position, not just for yourself, but for anyone else who agrees with you. In the first place, it gives an obvious error of judgement that others can use to call your other assessments into question. More to the point, though, these kinds of statements make you look desperate. It's basically an admission of defeat. If your arguments are sound, you don't need to tell people that they are. If you're really certain that the issue is settled, then you shouldn't need to say so. So when you do, it conveys the implication that your position is too weak to stand up to challenge from others, and you're just trying to get them to leave before they see the little man behind the curtain (as it were). Saying an idea will never be added is worse. Take a tally of how many things in the game right now were once certain to "never be added". Now, consider what making this statement means for your post... It raises the question, "Why are you even posting?" If the idea itself is so bad that it shouldn't be used, your posting is just bumping the topic, and getting it more attention. On the other hand, if the idea is really so inconsistent with the theme of Minecraft as to never be included, no matter how it's suggested/argued, posting is a waste of time. Because of this, it shouldn't come as any surprise if, when you state the absolute impossibility of an idea, no one believes you.
Grave Robbing for Dummies
First note I would like to make: There is a difference between necroing a thread and reviving/resurrecting one. The difference is in bump quality.
A personal definition for necro is a spam post like "bump" or similar "I disagree" or other non-constructive post. This is frowned upon and causes a great number of moderators to burn the zombified thread with a quick lock. The only reason you should ever post in any topic is because you have something useful to add to it. A statement of +1 or No adds nothing useful; therefore, the topic gets locked (in direct opposition to the desired effect.)
While necroing is against the rules, I personally feel that objectively reviving a thread with pertinent argument and qualifying discussion is not. Simply because a thread is as old as dirt does not mean it is dead, especially if it is better written and more pertinent than the current counterparts that exist.
It is POSSIBLE to resurrect old threads, but it must be done with care and great respect to the original poster and the thread itself.
Here's the playbook:
I have found the powerful blows of the mod-hammer have not fallen on my conscientious efforts to revive a valid and worthwhile thread despite age.
It is important to remember to use sound judgment on whether to revive a topic or not. If you cannot properly add information to a topic, then it may not be as acceptable as you may think.
If a thread was made in 1.3 and it's content is out of date, it's a bad idea to revive it.
If a thread was made with poor grammatical structure and is only a sentence, it is a bad idea to revive it.
Save your revivals only for those things truly deserving to be revived.
Perfection was achieved in Alpha!
This is for you nostalgia clowns. It's not really a statement of proper etiquette or technique. It's more of a base-line question. Why? Why are you in suggestions? Why are you posting at all? You already have the perfect version; you can go back to it at any time.
To carry this sentiment, you can understand why adopting this mentality as a "reason" for denial is a bit pathetic; I'd hope. If you don't like a suggestion because you play in an earlier version and don't think it'd work because of that, shut up. It won't affect you anyway. How do I know? You're playing a DIFFERENT version. It's a recursive self-answering question.
"I play 1.6.1 because I don't like baby zombies, and this suggestion would just make them more stupid!" - you invalidated yourself because you flat won't be affected. At all.
"I don't support bc then everyone else would just load a different version." First, you don't know that. Second, shut up, you don't have the knowledge or authority to speak for everyone else. Third, your statement becomes immediately invalid the second someone disagrees with you and loves the idea. Stop being bad.
If I wanted this, I'd play God of War
This annoys me.
Someone saying no to an idea simply because it may have something in common with another game. Given ANY idea I have ever seen and my limited grasp of games I have personally played; I can say NO to just about every idea that presents itself because I've seen it before. Seriously, no one cares if you saw the idea in another game as long as it's theme and usage conforms to Minecraft.
That is not to say that blatantly ripping off mechanics from existing games is a good thing; but when a player comes up with an idea, it should not be shut down simply because there is a tenuous generalization of an implementation in another game.
Broaden your methods of critiquing if that's the best critique you can come up with because this is lame.
And I quote!!!
If you have read everything so far; you may have picked out a common running theme. "Don't be lazy!" or more adequately, "Don't half-finish!"
One such case that isn't really well known is hastily replying; especially on these forums. When you reply to a post, you quote the entire post you are replying to (minus their quotes). This is obnoxious especially when replying to an already lengthy OP. People like reading the OP the first time, reading it again, or simply scrolling past it is obnoxious.
It's simple enough, don't be lazy, crop the post or delete the reply you are quoting unless it is relevant. You can use "*snip*" if you would like; but it is understandable and preferable that you AT LEAST cut at all. This saves other readers unnecessary stress, and allows everyone to get the full picture.
What you're trying to say is...
This has been a no tolerance card for me for a while.
Despite the fact that the OP/other discusser has made a POST that you can QUOTE at ANY time and reread to your heart's content; posters decide to use this colloquialism. Stop! it's the internet equivalent of being dropped on your head repeatedly.
You don't need to infer what the partner of discussion said, it's WRITTEN right there. When you say something witty like "What you're trying to say is -" you are literally putting words in the other person's mouth. Don't do that. This is literally straw-manning. It's also admitting you didn't read what the other person posted but are instead reinterpreting and distorting their message; even well intentioned, it's obnoxious. This is insulting, unverifiable, and plain wrong. Don't do it.
Q: "But Yoshi? What are we supposed to say then?"
A: If it's a discussion, then don't infer anything. If something someone said doesn't make sense or needs clarification; ASK FOR CLARIFICATION instead of shoving your words in their mouth. I cannot be any more serious about this.
I claim this topic in the name of...
Champions... What the HECK AM I TALKING ABOUT? What does it mean to "champion a thread", and why do I preach so highly about it? There's probably a much better colloquial term than what I use, I am known to make up terms to describe actions when I can't find the proper term.
Becoming a champion means you fully support a topic and will defend it and the original poster. You keep the topic alive, and help the OP through the inevitable waves of argument, you essentially become a "champion" of the thread, keeping it alive. You become the thread's hero. Sound cool? See why I have difficulty coining it as anything but "championing?"
This means you do not do anything to get the thread locked (flaming, insulting, tend to do this quick, avoid that) while calmly and respectfully refuting well-intentioned and well-made arguments.
Well, buckle down and put on that cape because you got heroing to do. While a champion's goal may be the preservation of a thread, his job is also to make that thread much more powerful, prestigious, and shiny. He does this by seeking other similar threads, referring them to the championed thread, and reporting the similar thread for lock due to redundancy.
Remember, it is OK to post "already suggested" as long as you provide a link to reference. Use this to your advantage as you dismiss other threads in preference to the gem you have found.
My rubric says...
You cannot please them all, you will find more than your fair share of bull-headed, ignorant, and downright stupid OPs which cannot accept criticism and pull the troll card far faster than they can make a legitimate string of letters. They will double and triple post their counter-arguments. Do NOT follow them down the road to Hell, though it is tempting to bat at their flailing limpid attempts. This will get you banned/warned along with them.
Occasionally, you'll have GOOD and DECENT posters which will engage in lively debate. As a critic, you should really only have 3 or so major criticisms. Any more and the suggestion is nearly irrecoverably bad without a massive overhaul. Any less, and the suggestion is not really detailed or the suggestion is well done. Keep these criticisms in mind as you reply.
If the OP has encountered your objections and successfully overcome them, offer counter-criticisms. If he overcomes them; then simply stop. If there isn't an issue, don't create one. Forcing issues creates senseless flame wars. Know when to stop, and STOP at that line. While it may seem like 3 issues isn't much; consider that there are likely several others with other issues.
Again remember to backseat your emotions and bias toward a suggestion while criticizing. It is often a good idea to keep a personal rubrick or outline so you can plot all that is wrong with the suggestion.
The goal here is to avoid flame wars by not instigating one. Limiting your criticisms is a good way of doing so.,
This cannot be coded
Thanks badprenup for pointing this out... When a good suggestion is declined because it is too hard to code. Says who?
It's too hard to code? For you? For Notch? How do you know it's too hard to code? Do you have a master's degree in computer science? Do you create the JAVA interpreter for Oracle? Are you a professional video game designer whom can create a complete game in 1/2 a day? If you are none of the above, the complaint of "Too hard to code" is irrelevant and is seen as a really sloppy cop-out for when a good reason to decline cannot be made.
"It's Impossible to code" is even worse. This assertion states that no one, in the entire world, among modders and professional coders, could ever add the suggestion. The problem here is the principle of perfection. The moment a SINGLE PERSON codes it, the suggestion is no longer impossible. Congratulations, you just salted your own turf and made yourself look like an idiot. I mean, "too hard to code" is a sloppy and shameful cop-out, but at least there's room for subjective denial. There's no recovery here.
"Oh, that person just doesn't have a life." - Is that a counter? So... Wait... Not only were you proven wrong, but proven wrong by someone you consider "socially inferior" after they ONLY TRIED TO HELP YOU. Way to make yourself look even more like a jerk. Also, what's worse than someone with no life? Whatever it is, you just filled that position.
Roles of a critiche made a base idear expandings our job
Have you seen anything like this? Ever felt like this? This is a common viewpoint for many posters, and I'm not sure where this came from. It certainly isn't in the rules; and it certainly hasn't passed my ears, though I'm sure that the treacherous corruptive whispers of Nidhoggr have yet to reach me.
I'd like to state first of all, NO. This is not our job. Expanding is the SUGGESTER'S job. Though we may be compelled to assist the suggester as is the right of any good Samaritan, it has probably been taken for granted and acted upon as though codified law.
It is also not our job to search and analyze every disparate post on a thread for updates to the suggestion. They should be in the suggestion body through edit. Is it nice for a critic to look for recent updates to the suggestion in later posts? Sure! That'd be awesome; but that is a preference and a whim; not a requirement. A critic shouldn't have to slog through 35+ pages of a thread to feel justified in posting. The suggestion in OP is satisfactory.
As a critic, your job is to criticize, objectively and impartially on grounds such as gameplay balance, feasibility, theme, comprehension, necessity, and usefulness. Nowhere in there does it state that you must go and be the damn suggester.
Do not let anyone tell you differently. Now, is it nice and suggested that you help? Of course, but it is not required. If you do help, you should also demand credit for the parts of the idea that were either taken or directly inspired.
A proper way to criticize and help improve a suggestion is to fire open-ended questions that you feel are missing from the suggestion. How much life does a mob have? What's the crafting recipe for this item? How long is the mob set on fire? Will this affect X mob in any way? How about Y mob? etc.
This allows the suggester full creative freedom to edit his suggestion as he sees fit without having to quote or credit you. There are, of course, a multitude of other methods to improve; but that is my preferred.
CRITIC CRITICS CRITICIZE CRITICS
Critic does not mean infallable. Sometimes you're wrong. Sometimes another critic is wrong. That's fine. That's cool. Everyone is wrong from time to time. It's inevitable for all intensive purposes. +1 if you catch that, apply +1 to nearest pedant-o-meter..
The key here is that if a critic is in the wrong; you need to remain respectful, helpful, and calm. (if you cannot remain respectful, helpful, or calm then do not engage(DNE).) inform them that they are mistaken and why (yep, supporting details, peeps).
Keep the correction on-topic. The discussion needs to remain about the suggestion and improvements/criticisms of it. Failure to do so can lead to a discussion purge (or worse) a thread lock. If the correction forces the discussion off-topic or has potential to create a red-herring; please forward the correction to private messages or DNE. If the opposing critic is violating rules, report them (DON'T TELL THEM YOU'RE REPORTING THEM!) and DNE.
THIS WOULD BE USELESS!
I'm going to start off this one rather bluntly. WRONG! You are WRONG. Period.
Good, we got the message? Now let me explain the points.
As people have gotten acquainted with this little thread, I've seen plenty of people try to circumvent what's written here as though it's cannon (to those that follow this thread, I am deeply honored and humbled simultaneously, I thank you all for following as you have) and because of that, they will go into every unspecified reason to deny a suggestion they can. It's a quaint testament to human ingenuity and security defeating. I love it, but I digress. There are TWO times I've seen this pop up, both of which are unverifiable and likely invalid criticisms.
1) It would be a waste of time to code!
This one is a lovely little ditty that tries to comply with the IT CAN'T BE CODED parable while completely ignoring exactly WHY it's posted in the first place. The good news is you're no longer saying "it can't be coded". Which is 100% unverifiable. The bad news is you're NOW saying "it can't be coded quickly enough" or "it wouldn't be worth the time it takes to code".
Either way, C_FLAT (it's actual go-to label) already lists why it COULD be coded quickly enough or how it WOULD be worth the time to code. Here's the thing. If you do not understand programming languages/logic/structure then EVERYTHING is too hard to code, including the programming for this forum, the Windows/Linux/Mac OS you're using, and the games you enjoy playing. Why bother making pong? It can't be coded.
The problem is, there exists things known as barrier of entry. The more you do something, the easier things become. What may be impossible or taxing to you may be a simple addition to someone else. Essentially, this is a problem that shouldn't have to be addressed because it fails for the same reasons as the surrogate it replaces.
2) It would be more work than it's worth!
An appeal to efficiency, eh? Again, you'd look rather silly if it took Mojang about 15 minutes to comment in/test/comment out. You can't really say this because it is not known to you how hard the task at hand would actually be. Because of this, it's probably far easier than you give it credit for.
Unless you have credible time programming and understand how difficult a suggestion really is, stop. If you don't have programming; at least back up your criticism with facts or logical appeals or... y'know... numbers.
DON'T BE RUDE, THIS IS A SUGGESTION
I dunno. I'm probably the only one that gets annoyed when I see someone post this trite and random sentence.
If you find yourself about to sprout off a golden winner like "This is a suggestion, be nice." Then I urge you to reconsider.
There's several reasons why.
Possibly most importantly is, it gets on my last nerve... Alright, so that's not actually important at all.
Here's the ACTUAL reasons why.
1) Yeah, thanks jack. I would have never realized with my methodical button-presses from Minecraft general to Minecraft suggestions that people would actually post SUGGESTIONS in the forum.
Shock and horror! Yes, this is a suggestion forum, we know that. Your uncanny ability to point out the obvious may help local law enforcement, but it does nothing here.
As a matter of fact, I personally have over 5000 posts, I know for a fact that under 100 have originated OUTSIDE of the suggestions forum. When I read this statement, it's an insult to my intelligence and an insult to others.
2) You have added absolutely NO substance to the article. Not only is what you have said redundant, but it also does NOT help the suggestion. You have actually gone as far OFF-topic as is physically possible while at the very same instant defend the article you've added nothing to.
Not only is this self-defeating, but it actually HURTS the suggestion more than it helps because you've just created a tangent to pull focus away from the topic-on-hand, and onto how much of an idiot you are. Please do NOT use this sentence.
3) The objective of the other posters is to CRITICIZE and improve the suggestion. This means that we might end up having to say something that the suggester may not like reading in the effort to improve the suggestion.
By asking people to be nice, you are KILLING the suggestion as you have removed some of the only viable feedback the suggestion would otherwise receive. If you are reading this right... Heck, if you've read this far, you know what this means.
By defending the suggestion in this way, you have just become the single-most greatest enemy to this topic.
Dec 28, 2016Posted in: Suggestions
That's a really good one. It kind of puts me in an awkward position because it makes it even harder to make both lists of guidelines equal, but that was more for my love of symmetry than anything else so screw it. I will probably update it sometime over the next few days, I have Friday through Monday off of work for the holidays so any other feedback (especially on formatting, as one of the major things people have mentioned with this is that it isn't very interesting visually) until then would be appreciated.
I'd say making each guideline distinct from the others would be a good idea. Right now they're all clustered into one enormous section. Even with the bold it looks like a wall of text. Something like...
Creating and Maintaining a Suggestion
1 - Make sure you are in the right place. Mod and plugin ideas go here. If a mod is created for a suggestion then a thread for the mod should be made in the Mods section and discussion about the mod should be done in the mod's thread. You can link to the mod thread in your suggestion though, so people can try it out.
2 - Make your title descriptive! It should describe your idea in a few words, to get people interested before they've even clicked your thread. Who would want to click on a boring old thread simply titled "My Idea" anyways?
3 - Know your audience. Mojang doesn't typically read these suggestions, they are just a fun way to talk about what you want in the game. So it is a good idea to address your idea towards other posters, not to Mojang themselves. On that note, you don't need to put what version you want the idea to be added in. If an idea is added, it would be added as soon as it is ready, no sooner or later.
4 - Details! Details! Details! If you post a suggestion, it is a good idea to add as much detail as you can. It doesn't need to be perfect, but if you provide a lot of detail, you're more likely to have a better discussion and you'll get better feedback. If you don't want to give any details that is fine, but you should post it in the Small Suggestions thread.
5 - Keep the Original Post (OP) updated. If you change something about your idea after getting feedback on it, you should edit the original post and update the information. If you say your new weapon does 5 damage in the original post and change it to 7 damage later, people will get confused if you don't update the original post to reflect the change.
6 - Be open to feedback. The whole point of this section is to help each other come up with good ideas. That won't happen if you refuse to listen to what people think would make your idea better. You don't have to change every single thing that people want you to, but it is always a good idea to take other ideas into consideration even if you don't agree with them.
Something I noticed while playing around here- Putting "Guideline X" isn't as good as just starting with a number because it kind of makes them blend together. That said, starting with a number makes these seem a bit more authoritative, less like guidelines and more like rules. I believe that only requires one change to fix, though:
Guidelines to Creating and Maintaining a Suggestion
A bit of reinforcement in the title instead of on every single guideline.
What do you guys think?
Sep 29, 2016Chameleonred5 posted a message on Jeb said Birds were a overdue feature in Minecon...Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
It means they want to put birds in, but haven't. That's it.
Either way, while I see some merit in it, I only hope they put some real thought into it.
Apr 3, 2016Posted in: Discussion
I'm going to stop you there right at the title, there is no such thing as everyone agreeing to do the same thing. I could state "humans breathe oxygen" and I would get people in disagreement.
And why should we? Some people like it and other people don't like it. So what? What do you have so strongly against differing views of opinion that you are calling for a boycott?
Feb 26, 2013Calacbolg posted a message on Cubic Chunks: Reduced lag, infinite height, and more [The #1 Suggestion Thread of all time!][Updated! 6/14]Posted in: SuggestionsThis system will not increase lag! The entire point of this system is to avoid the lag caused by higher height limits.
Table of Contents:
Changes in how things work
Data storageFrequently Asked Questions
Changes to world features
Coping with sunlight
Changes to servers
Render/Load distance alterations
[WIP] The Cubic Chunks Mod!
Supporting this suggestion
[spoiler=Tl:dr]Q: Won't this increase lag?
A: Absolutely not. The title of this suggestion and big red letters at the top of this post aren't lying. If you want to know how, then I suggest you actually read this post.
Q: Will this change terrain? Will this break existing worlds?
A: No. Terrain change is not necessary. Existing worlds can be converted fairly easily with a process described later in this post.
Q: How can sunlight or rain work with infinite vertical space?
A: I suggest you read Coping with sunlight, because it's too complex for a tl;dr.
Q: I have a different question but still don't feel like reading this post. What do I do?
A: Too bad, read the FAQ. I put way too much work into this for the entirety of it to be ignored.[/spoiler]
In Minecraft, the sky is the limit - literally. It doesn't matter how many thousands of blocks a player has traveled, or what dimension they're in, or even if they're playing in creative or survival, the highest they can ever build is up to a height of 256. Why is that? If Minecraft can have a world that's infinite in the north, in the south, in the east, and in the west, why can't that world be infinite up and down too?
In Minecraft's earliest days, in Classic and Indev, the world was not infinite in any direction. This was because the entire world needed to be generated at the same time, and the entire world needed to be simulated at the same time as well. This led to a conundrum - the bigger the world, the more it lagged.
Notch didn't like this. He knew his players liked to explore and build large creations, so he found a way to make the world truly infinite. When the Minecraft '' class='bbc'>Infdev came out, it brought with it truly infinite worlds. Suddenly, players could travel hundreds of thousands of blocks in any direction, and never encounter a barrier, or become too laggy.
The Infdev update brought about a very large change to Minecraft worlds to accomplish this feat. For the first time, instead every world being just a single huge piece, they were broken up into a two-dimensional grid of pieces, called chunks. Through breaking the world up into pieces, this 'chunk system' enabled infinite worlds by letting Minecraft create new pieces and simulate them only when it needs to.
Why does that not apply to the vertical axis? Because the type of 'chunk system' Minecraft uses right now is a linear one, which, by using only a two-dimensional grid to map out chunks, means that it is impossible for chunks to stack on top of one another, and by extension, meaning that a single chunk must cover the entire vertical space. This brings back the problem that the Infdev update was supposed to eradicate, now only with chunks, instead of an entire world; the bigger a chunk is, the more laggy it is. You can't just increase the height limit and make chunks taller, because it will become laggier, and laggier, and laggier to do it.
That's why, to fix this, Minecraft must change over to a cubic chunk system. Under this system, 163 block chunks are aligned on a three-dimensional grid, completely eliminating maximum height as an aspect of lag.
The immediate benefits:
•Minecraft worlds become as virtually infinite vertically as they are horizontally: The absolute limit being Y = ±30,000,000.
•A large FPS increase: Alpha testers report an FPS increase of 100~200%.
•Increase in running capability: Computers running Minecraft on Tiny render distance will handle only 30% the blocks they do now.
The possible features:
•Spherical render/load distance: Reduce handled blocks by up to 30% by cutting corners made of unneeded chunks.
•Server chunk occlusion/exclusion: Reduce bandwidth usage and defeat hackers by only sending data for visible chunks.
•Three-dimensional biomes: Save biome data per chunk rather than per block column, create volcanoes with magma chambers, underground rivers, tropical skylands floating over icy taigas, and more.
•Unloaded gravity-pause: Falling non-player entities and fluids will be forced to pause their fall if they reach unloaded chunks, but will resume falling when those chunks are loaded.
•Slow falling-pause: Players with slower computers and smaller render distances will have falling occasionally paused as they fall into unloaded chunks, until new chunks can be loaded.
•Current sunlight and rain calculation methods cannot work with infinite vertical space: The solution to this is described here.
•Current BiomeDecorator cannot work with multiple vertical chunks simultaneously: The BiomeDecorator code must be altered to function correctly with this, or removed.
•Current cave generation method is executed an extra time for each vertical chunk created simultaneously, leading to lag spikes on world generation: Cave generation's method must be altered to suit this system more.
•Current grass/dirt generation algorithm forces additional chunk requests when chunks are loaded, causing chunks to load slower than they should: This algorithm must be replaced with something else.
Changes in how things work:
Obviously, the implementation of this new chunk system will change quite a few things. These changes are mostly either necessary or in the interest of increased efficiency. Such changes are categorized and explained below.
How worlds will be stored:
[spoiler]How the current storage works, and what changes:
Interestingly enough, the current method of storage, the Anvil format, is derived from the storage method that the original Cubic Chunks mod used. The Anvil format stores individual chunk as a series of 163 quasi-cubic chunks. These 'fake' cubic chunks allow for easier reference of specific data, but they still can't be separated from each other, meaning that it fails to reap the full benefits of this system. Even so, the change allowed Mojang to double the maximum height with no performance hit. Chunks are stored in groups of 322, inside 'MCRegion' files, for a total of 1024 chunks.
By nature, cubic chunks does away with the 'quasi-cubic' nonsense. In terms of chunk grouping, instead of using groups of 323 chunks, new "3DRegion" files would contain groups of 163. This means each 3DRegion file contains 4096 chunks, four times as many as MCRegion files. However, each 3DRegion contains only one fourth the amount of blocks. For per-chunk positional metadata, 3DRegion files would use the same number of bits as MCRegion files, after compression. Calculations show that the same area encompassed by a single MCRegion file would consume 64 kilobytes of extra space with 4 3DRegion files, which is nothing.
Converting existing worlds:
Most people are probably wondering something like "But won't this totally destroy all existing worlds?". Absolutely not; conversion could not be simpler. When a non-cubic world is loaded after the implementation of this system, a conversion process will begin and convert the entire world at once(To avoid making chunk loading take longer during play). First, all existing MCRegion files will be divided into quarters to create 3DRegion files. Then, all existing chunks are divided into sixteenths using the quasi-cubic properties to identify boundaries. After that, conversion is done.
The "isEmpty" flag optimization:
A 1-bit flag is added to each chunk, named "isEmpty". If the chunk consists of 100% air blocks, this bit is 1, any other case makes it 0. When the bit is 1, all data for the chunk besides the isEmpty flag is deleted and ignored, which reduces filesize. Empty chunks are never loaded, and locations where they occur are merely simulated as entities reside in them. The chunk will only load when something requires saving inside it.[/spoiler]
Changes to terrain, ores, etcetera:
By default, nothing will change. Small bits of terrain generation code need to be reconfigured to work properly with Cubic Chunks.
By default, nothing will change.
By default, nothing will change.
By default, nothing will change.
After conversion to Cubic Chunks, the void and bedrock layer will still exist and generate as they always have. However, the void(Not the bedrock layer!) will not exist as a hard limit and is able to be moved, but not removed, by editing an associated NBT data tag inside a world's level.dat. This feature, that allows for increasing the maximum depth, is intentionally disabled without external programs, to prevent terrain change of any sort. It is intended to be used by experienced mapmakers and world generation mods only.
Existing superflat worlds will not change. However, new superflat worlds will gain a new decoration parameter, 'void'. Inclusion of this parameter will cause the void to form below the lowest defined layer. Exclusion of it will cause all layers below the lowest defined layer to copy the settings of that layer.[/spoiler]
Coping with sunlight:
[spoiler]There used to be a solution here, but it wasn't deemed good enough by Jeb. Suggest solutions in this thread.[/spoiler]
Changes to servers:
There's a setting inside the Server.properties file called 'max-build-height'. The setting makes it impossible for any player to place or remove blocks above that height.
With the implementation of Cubic Chunks, a new setting named "maximum-generation-depth" would be added. The void, bedrock layers, and magma layers will generate normally at and above the Y level designated by the value of this setting.
Using the raytracing methods already available in the code and used for explosion calculations, servers can identify which chunks are visible to a player, within safe assumptions, and only send the data for those chunks. This both reduces bandwidth usage, and cripples the usefulness of X-Ray cheats.[/spoiler]
Render/Load distance alterations:
[spoiler]After the implementation of Cubic Chunks, view distances' radii will apply to the vertical axis too. This reduces handled blocks in the cases of tiny and short render distances, and increases them in the cases of normal and far render distances. This can be optimized by utilizing a spherical render distance instead of a cubic one, which would reduce handled blocks in all distances except Far.[/spoiler]
Frequently Asked Questions:
[spoiler=FAQ]Q: This is impossible.
A: No it's not. See below.
Q: Is this available as a mod?
A: Not yet! But it will be!
Q: I like X-ray! What if I don't want it to be broken?
A: First of all, breaking X-ray hacks will only be possible to do in multiplayer. That said, the system that would break X-ray would be possible to disable by the server owner. If the owner doesn't disable the system, then they don't want you using X-ray, and you should not be doing what the server owner doesn't want in the first place.
Q: I play on a PvP/Anarchy/Raid/Faction server. Won't this system let people pillar up into the sky and create a base thousands of blocks in the air and never be found?
Q: I like Minecraft's current height limits. What if I don't want to have an infinite sky or infinite underground?
A: If this system is added, all worlds will not automatically gain an infinite underground. As stated below, the Void will remain in all worlds, even after the conversion to Cubic Chunks. The ability to remove the Void will simply be there. As for infinite space in the sky, the current build limit is over one hundred blocks above any terrain that vanilla Minecraft can possibly generate. It is ENTIRELY your decision on whether or not you take advantage of this height. If you play on a server, like stated above, the server owner can set a maximum build height. If s/he doesn't, then don't play on their server - you don't play on servers where the server owners allow things you don't like. Why would you play on an anarchy server if you hate being stolen from and killed?
Q: Will this affect Redstone at all?
A: No. This system will simply make it possible to make larger redstone circuitry than before.
Q: Won't this break existing worlds?
A: No. Existing worlds can be easily converted by dividing each MCRegion file into 4 pieces, then slicing the existing 256 block-high chunks inside them into 16 individual chunks.
Q: Won't this affect mods? Won't mod authors have a hard time updating their mods?
A: The answer to this question depends solely on the answer to the following two questions: Do parts of the modification code rely on chunk data/metadata? Does the mod author want to take advantage of the features of the new chunk system? If the answers to the first and second question are both "No", then updating a mod to this system should be very easy and quick. If the answer to the first question is "Yes", then those parts of the code will need to be rewritten somewhat, but in most cases, the changes should be fairly quick and easy. The only time that it should be hard to update a mod to this system, is if the answer to the second question is "Yes".
Q: Won't this require a total rewrite of the mod API if that's released first?
A: No. Whether or not even a small part of the mod API needs to be rewritten depends on the way that it is implemented and whether or not there are API inclusions for chunk handling and other chunk-related behavior.
Q: Could a player fall into unloaded chunks if chunks aren't loaded fast enough?
A: No, they could not, and for several reasons. Minecraft has a terminal velocity, though it might not seem like it. This velocity is slower than it should take to load new chunks below the player. In cases with exceptionally slow computers, even if the player did manage to reach an unloaded chunk, their fall would be paused until that chunk can be loaded.
Q: What would happen when water, sand, or a mob falls into an unloaded chunk?
A: Nothing. The water/sand/mob would freeze in place until the chunk is loaded and it can continue moving. You can already see this same thing happening on the horizontal axis.
Q: What will happen to the Void?
A: It will still exist, along with all its effects. The only difference is that the Void is no longer a hard limit and it can be moved. After the conversion to Cubic Chunks, the Void's location will be stored in a world's ' class='bbc'>level.dat, and this location can be changed with NBT editing tools. When and where the Void exists, chunks will cease to generate.
Q: Will this affect terrain?
A: No. However, terrain generators will gain the ability to use infinite height.
Q: Will this affect ore generation?
A: No. Ore is a part of terrain generation. As stated above, terrain will not be changed.
Q: Won't all current terrain generators be incompatible with this system and need to be rewritten?
A: No. Terrain generators work independently of chunks. When a chunk is generated for the first time, it calls the terrain generator and receives a specific section of the resultant terrain to save inside itself. Because of this, some custom terrain generators can generate steep terrain all the way to Y256, where you can experience a large, flat cut-off. Since there are no chunks above Y256 to call the terrain generator for terrain, no terrain exists there.
Q: What would happen if there's a huge solid ceiling so far above you that it is unloaded? Wouldn't you just see the sky, just with everything being completely dark?
A: Yes. This already happens on the horizontal axis, and it is an issue with sky rendering, not this chunk system. As such, this has nothing to do with this suggestion. Please do not post about this.
Q: If you go deep underground, will your plants grow/ores smelt/animals grow?
A: No, because those chunks would be unloaded, just as if you had walked far away. This is a flaw with any chunk system, regardless of shape. It is a necessary evil that allows Minecraft to have infinite worlds. The only way to fix this would be to introduce a separate new system that works with chunks as they are loaded and unloaded. This suggestion deals with the chunk system itself, and not sister processes. Because of that, that is outside of the scope of this suggestion. Please do not post about this.[/spoiler]
[WIP] The Cubic Chunks Mod! (Tall Worlds Mod):
Cuchaz has taken it upon himself to bring us the glorious Cubic Chunks, since Mojang refuses to do so.
Cuchaz is using a API of his own creation to help assist in the making of this mod, and he's quite far along, as seen in these two tech demo videos:
[spoiler=T-Demo 1: Vertical chunk loading][/spoiler]
[spoiler=T-Demo 2: Broken height cap and no lag!][/spoiler]
With the basic functionality in place - a complete overhaul of the basic chunk system, and height limit removed - this whole concept can already be considered proven. What remains is making sure everything else functions correctly under the new chunk system. In any case, stay tuned for future updates if it interests you(If it doesn't, then you are the weakest link - goodbye!).
You can follow the mod's development in much more depth in its very own topic!
[spoiler=A mountainside with an experimental engine using Cubic Chunks designed by Nocte. 960 block view radius, and 30 FPS.][/spoiler]
[spoiler=A different view of the mountainside with the same engine by Nocte. This time, with 1600 block view radius and 15 FPS.][/spoiler]
[spoiler="A video demonstrating Nocte's engine."]
Support & Submission to Mojang:
If you support this, hit the rep button in the bottom-left corner of this post. It is the only good way of accurately measuring support here.
If you wish, you can put the following banner, courtesy of laz2727, into your signature. It helps to attract support from all parts of the forum!
Please help us get word out of this suggestion! Share this with your friends, with Minecraft celebrities if you're familiar with them, or even with Mojangsters like Jeb or Dinnerbone! (Do not share this with Notch. Notch doesn't work with Minecraft anymore.)
The purpose of this suggestion is to have Cubic Chunks implemented in Vanilla. Being available as a modification does not fulfill that purpose. The modification featured in this suggestion is to act as a proof-of-concept only(Note: Its being featured here is to act as a proof-of-concept. The modification itself is on its way to becoming a fully fledged modification).
Cuchaz, for taking Barteks' proof and running with it, to give us a truly functional Cubic Chunks mod.
Barteks2x, for updating the Cubic Chunks mod to 1.6.2, proving that it is possible.
Azraile, for posting the original suggestion and allowing me to take ownership of it.
Nocte, for helping resolve flaws and designing Hexahedra.
MineCrak, for a large amount of valuable insight and enthusiasm into the topic of Cubic Chunks.
aaronfranke, for helping resolve flaws.
PanJouda, for creating the original banner.
Flexico, for creating the predecessor to the current banner.
laz2727, for creating the current banner.
Robinton, for creating the original Cubic Chunks mod.
The_Watchman13, for answering all those stupid questions so I don't have to.
Note: Many calculations and information can be found among the many posts of this topic. There are too many for me to cite here, but if you wish, you can search for them yourself.
Sep 24, 2015Posted in: Recent Updates and Snapshots
Dispensers facing upward being supplied and alternating signal still shoot items into the dispenser directly above
Example: D=Dropper, R=Redstone Signal On r=Redstone Signal Off
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