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    posted a message on Thaumcraft 6.1.BETA26 [no longer being developed]
    Quote from IStoneI»
    the thing with most mods is, that their content has to be gated somehow.

    i rather prefer the research of thaumcraft in form of scanning and a minigame, just as it is now over blood magics time consuming crafting method, or the ridiculous resource requirements of most tech mods. the research simply seems to be the most fitting method for a magic mod. and is actually one of my favourite parts. as it gives the feeling as if we treated magic and alchemy like a science.

    while i trust azanor, that he can do something great with it, i dont feel that research itself needs to be touched right now. its really in a good spot overall. literally the only way it could be improved was an automated way to scan through items inside your chest. as that is the only possible part that can get tedious. the scanning game as interaction with the world, and the minigame are both interesting enough. and even then there is that config to go for easy mode, to skip the minigame.

    i have no idea, how much work it will take to update with the new mechanics, when a lot of different forms of essentia exist. but if possible, it would be preferable if only a couple of them were removed.

    a list of aspects that could be removed could be:

    - arbor, messis replaced by herba
    - meto, machina, fabricio replaced by instrumentum
    - iter, volatus simplified to motus
    - sano simplified to victus

    but i feel like those are the only ones that essentially represent the same thing. looking through the other spects, the rest of it seems rather specific.

    but that would already reduce the amount of aspects by 8, without losing much. spiritus could possibly be removed and represented by cognitio. not shure about that one though, as they represent entirely different things. spiritus the soul, cognito intellect. and both have currently a place in the mod.
    ... ...
    but overall, i can just say that im not a fan of the idea of reducing the mechanics back to a handful of fluids or thaumcraft 2 mechanics. because it would remove the depth of the entire alchemy system, that thaumcraft has going right now.
    not to mention, that tanks and pipes arent even close to being as unique of a power and storage system as the current essentia and the jars are.

    I agree with most of this, especially the automated scanner thing, it would remove the biggest bit of tedium in the TC research system. It wouldn't even have to be free, and keeping with the theme to make flux and taint play a bigger factor, could be justified something like:


    "Having learned what aspects make up the world around you, you decide to try and find a way of cataloguing items and what aspects they imbue without carefully inspecting each and every one. To that end, you've combined a crucible with a thaumometer, and found a way to enchant your scribing tools to record the results of dropping items into the crucible, in a nearby research table. Although this does result in the build up of aspects and the loss of the de-constructed items, the contrption seems to draw most of the aspects inserted into the crucible, leaving just one or two per item. Besides, you're sure you'll be able to keep the environmental damage to a minimum."

    The 'device' could have an inventory slot, or you could make it require items be dropped into it, both are fairly easy to automate.

    That would make auto-scanning somewhat dangerous, and since it loses the item, it'll be used mostly for those items that get tedious to scan, the random junk lying in storage. This makes scanning things useful for machines and other precious items, and leaves it in for usefulness. It also somewhat makes sense, since when dropping stuff in a crucible you convert it into aspects, the goggles can tell what aspects they are, so why not a contraption? So there's a ham-fisted way of "eh, just dissolve it into it's component parts", and the intricate way of studying (scanning) more valuable items.

    Or, you know, don't delete the item, either/or.

    It also probably wouldn't work repeat times like the deconstruction table, since the 'enchanted' scribing tools writing down stuff only care about what aspects make up the device, they won't write the same item down twice, it has no reason to as it's job is just to catalogue.

    I think the deconstruction table is more akin to studying the aspects themselves rather than studying what aspects make up items, which helps the distinction. You know what aspects are in an item immediately after scanning it, the only knowledge left to glean is "why does this snowball seem to have the power of ignis imbued within itself?" which leads to "how does ignis affect the snowball" etc. etc. I'm rambling...

    just a wild idea :P

    Quote from Cocofang»

    TBH 4 primals might be rather interesting if you were to fall back to a TC2 style piping mechanic without phials, alchemy golems and jars.

    Perhaps good old tanks as well as pipes. And whenever two elemental essentias are in the same tank/pipe/whatever something bad could happen as well. A kind of overwhelming mechanic. For example when a dominant primal (water > fire) is also avaiable in greater number the submissive primal will slowly degrade into taint. (Certain tanks like void tanks could counteract this)

    Regarding TC2 and TC3 I also really liked how how the aura was a more "limited" resource.

    no phials, alchemy golems or jars... but... but those are awesome!
    Honestly I think the essentia systems are some of the best parts of thaumcraft 4, and thaumcraft in general.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Thaumcraft 6.1.BETA26 [no longer being developed]
    Quote from netmc»
    With no penalty for just emptying out essentia into the environment, there isn't any need to worry about the excess of certain types like ignis. Combining some of the ideas of a localized warp effect zone with penalties for excess essentia could make thaumaturgy a bit more...interesting.

    ...
    I miss having a use for knowledge fragments. Some of the researches like the focus of warding, could be "lost" knowledge that required fragments. ...

    I can just see it now..
    "Oh, the jars are all full of ignis and arbor again, well, off to the dumping ground"
    *walks over to a big hole in the ground a hundred blocks away, and empties jars...
    " :unsure: no-one was using this space, right?"

    Sounds neat!.

    I'm not sure about the research fragments, it always seems painful when items are locked behind dungeon and other loot. Quite a few people are usually very unlucky when it comes to that stuff...
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Thaumcraft 6.1.BETA26 [no longer being developed]
    Quote from MentalMouse42»

    Those are the various tradeoffs. And if you're going to use the creative book, you can use the "/tc warp" command, too.


    Although using the creative book is "cheating", bypassing research isn't an immediate reason for disabling warp altogether. Warp is a thaumcraft mechanic, research is a thaumcraft mechanic, they're both separate and although they interact, bypassing one shouldn't require bypassing another.

    Quote from MentalMouse42»

    Well, that's the point. The system is meant to be a rate limiter, but it's somewhat flexible. Heavy use of the Research Guide can speed it up a fair bit, but I'd say player experience does even more. You can even screenshot your solutions, if you like. While mastering the minigame, you make a habit of the "scan everything new" thing, especially stuff as you make it and nodes as you explore for other purposes. (Eventually, if you want to learn about building magical devices, you need to actually build some!) Go ahead and pick up a little warp -- Research Mastery and the Arcane Furnace are just necessary, and a few others are pretty desirable. By the time your research points get tight, you should certainly have bookshelves and crystal clusters providing ghost points, and a deconstruction table.

    In the time it would take to screenshot and catalog my solutions, I would've solved all the next set of solutions, albeit slightly differently, already. The only research guide I refer to anymore is the one which shows which things to scan to get all the different aspects discovered as quickly as possible, after that I go on my scan spree.
    ghost points aren't particularly useful as they're really slow. I'm sure the way I do research adds to the reasons that I run out of aspects, and things to scan, but I can't be the only one who sits down for a few hours and goes to start thaumcraft, then proceeds to finish all researches in one or two sittings so I don't have to screw around with it later.
    I don't think even the 'scan everything new' policy even counters the need for some of the most-used aspects in the research minigame. I scan everything, everything in my storage, and every, single, machine and block I have, at an endgame level. I also increase the thaumcraft config limits to max number of aspects allowed, and max number of aspects per item, and I still run out of aspects before completing research. If I was playing vanilla + thaumcraft, I'd be screwed and have to rely on the deconstruction table incredibly heavily. This is in the 'normal' mode research too, which uses less rare aspects than the easy mode. The only other way around it is to travel across the countryside for hours looking for nodes and scanning them.

    Come to think of it I should start switching to 'hard' mode to make things easier, no more instrumentum drain from all those wand/staff cores...
    Quote from MentalMouse42»
    Much the same thing, though I've been using aer with Arbor. All the primals have at least one compound whose resource points are available in some quantity, and in some cases the primals are so common that it's worth making the compound as needed. (Victus, I'm looking at you. Mortuus, even.) Note that any time that the same component gets used "twice in a row", you get a "splice" that can turn the two-hex pattern into a three-hex one. Thus Terra-Victus-Herba, Aqua-Victus-Limus, Terra-Vitreus-Metallum, Humanus-Instrumentum-Fabrico, Aer-Motus-Volatus. (Any others? I can't think of any offhand.)

    I'm usually a bit low on aer after a while, but I always have an abundance of herba, eh, use what ya got.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Thaumcraft 6.1.BETA26 [no longer being developed]
    Quote from nukularpower»

    On the research topic - Maybe I am confused, but I am failing to see why it is important to make things easy for repeat players when the creative book, and easy research, already exist.

    "Easy research" takes up more rare aspects on average than "hard research". Which means long tedious hours of sitting at a deconstruction table.

    The creative book isn't a perfect solution either, since it gives you every research possible all at once, which means possibly some warp-inducing research you never wanted.


    Quote from nukularpower »
    That aside, I would think that the proposed system would just lead to a nice reddit thread of "thaumcraft research cheat sheet" that everyone would use to skip over it entirely, new or not. At least now you still have to solve the puzzles.


    This actually sounds nice, as it stands, the thaumcraft 'puzzles' are incredibly trivial to solve after you get research mastery or have done them once or twice. It turns into a game of "do I have enough aspects?" very quickly.

    Who else here chains metallum and vitreous (metal and crystal), or herba and arbor (plant and tree)?
    First thing I do on a research sheet is take everything down to primals, then over to arbor or vitreous. some I chain through ignis and lux or gelum perhaps, if I have an abundance of aer or perditio, and the connection is easy.

    If you want to keep the creative book as an argument that research the nth time through is easy to bypass, then it would need to be changed slightly. You'd need to have a creative book, either a new one or a replacement of the old one, that lets you click away to research things at no cost, rather than all the research at once, and all the warp therein. Players who aren't on servers (which will have their own set of rules) can then just spawn in the book and bypass the research if they want to. I think most players people would probably only do that on their 3rd+ time through the same research stuff.

    Either way I feel there is a definite need to make research either way easier after doing it a couple times, or a lot less tedious.

    I'm also of the opinion that scanning for aspects actually does get boring aswell. Sure its somewhat interesting, but after the 5th time emptying an AE system of all it's items one inventory at a time, dropping them in a circle, and scanning them, its sooooo tedious. Then after having scanned every single item you have, you run out of aspects and just sit there going: "well, crap, now I have to craft a whole bunch of random stuff to scan or sit at the deconstruction table for half an hour..."

    So something that eliminates some of the tedium, but keeps research a unique and interesting experience sounds really appealing.
    I don't think I can stand this cycle another time:
    *go to storage, grab out next set of items, throw 9 on floor, scan, scan, scan, can't scan, scan... pickup items, drop next 9 items on floor, scan, scan, scan, scan... go to storage, get out next set of...* you get the idea.

    I'll probably grab me a creative book and just deal with the warp.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Thaumcraft 6.1.BETA26 [no longer being developed]

    • Normal mode is funny and fast but the ink bottle and paper part is plain bad.

    In my current game I automated the ink for the research table. It's actually not that hard, if you have a few of the right mods and a stock of ~a stack of ink.

    And for in-inventory ink and paper, I think going through the entire research tree I used maybe two stacks of paper, and two or three ink sacs, not really a big deal.

    I wouldn't call the ink and paper requirements the problem with research. For me the only problem with research is running out of aspects, particularly humanus. I also tend to run out of ordo and aer a lot too.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on List of sites stealing Minecraft content. StopModReposts!
    Hey guys, I've noticed the new banner everyone over here is using, and it's spilled over onto the FTB forums for atleast one person.

    I just want to point out that while I'm all for what's going on here, and I like the banner, It's over the limit of 150px tall over at FTB (the image is 200px) and it's actually too wide aswell, at 700px where the max is 615. It's really distracting, which is sort-of the point I guess but some middleground would be nice. Here the signature turns into a scrollbox if it's too big, over there it just displays.
    So I decided to do something constructive and post a resize of it that anyone should be able to use over on FTB no problem without blowing peoples eyes away ^_^.

    All credit goes to GeForce for the banner, I've just resized it for anyone who uses the FTB forums.
    new size is 525px x 150px



    BBCode:
    [url=http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding/minecraft-mods/mods-discussion/2314237-list-of-sites-stealing-minecraft-mods/][img]http://i.imgur.com/IO8zpM6.png[/img][/url]
    Posted in: Mods Discussion
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    posted a message on Chisel 3 [The Dev Releases]
    Quote from CptSpaceToaster »
    Note: We intend to add the "chisel left click" back in, on the upcoming "Diamond Chisel" It didn't make it into this release, but you'll probably see another release in a couple days with the stuff missing from this one.





    A "diamond chisel"?

    Please don't go adding layers of complications onto the chisel mod, the beauty of it is in it's simplicity. Everyone adores it because you don't have to screw with machines/tech trees/hard-to-find-resources to just get a bunch of aesthetic blocks.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Reika's Mods (Tech, WorldGen, Civilization, and more)
    Quote from Reika»

    Not a bug.

    Quote from ChromoTrigger»

    Can you explain further? Because the turbine acting like the base temperature being 1200° should be more appropriate in terms of physics.

    Hmm...

    At first It seems counter-intuitive, but since It's intended, I'm guessing from a physics standpoint it has something to do with airflow?

    The gas turbine shoots a crapton of air at the friction heater, and although that air is hot, whatever extra heat is generated by the friction heater just gets transferred to the surrounding air and immediately carried away, making it harder/impossible to heat stuff up?

    And now's when I realise I've forgotten a whole bunch of physics terminology...
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Reika's Mods (Tech, WorldGen, Civilization, and more)
    Quote from hilburn»

    Smack it with a Bedrock 2x Gear

    It took me two days to find this gem of a post, two months old...
    Reika, could you add this information to the ingame manual?
    It's for how to upgrade the shaft junction.

    Oh, also, it seems that the gas turbine causing heat in machines behind it is interfering with the friction heater, it won't exceed 1200 degrees when behind a gas turbine. It doesn't seem like this would be intended, probably opposite really.
    I'm almost certain that it's the gas turbine since when I use a bevel gear to move the friction heater from behind the gas turbine, it hits 2000 degrees no problem, same power, torque etc.
    tested in v3d of rotarycraft.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Chisel 3 [The Dev Releases]
    Every time I use the auto chisel I get a free extra block, is this happening to anyone else?

    I'm still on 2.0.0.1, but I don't see the issue in the issue tracker or changelog. I want to confirm it's not just my mod setup before I make a big deal out of it ^_^.

    Edit: It seems to happen everytime the output slot is empty, The autochisel makes a block without taking one.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on [1.7.10][TC4][AE2]Thaumic Energistics
    I can just see myself using this stuff to automatically centrifuge stuff like herba when victus gets too low - ooh will the level emitters work with essentia?
    Posted in: WIP Mods
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    posted a message on Thaumcraft 6.1.BETA26 [no longer being developed]
    Hey Azanor, found a typo for you:
    In the Wand Focus: portable hole thaumonomicon page

    "... this focus on a wall or other surface wilkl create an extradimensional ..."
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on Factorization 0.8.108
    Quote from gimmedat

    Is it possible to define extract and inputs seperately with a router? For example I would like to extract from slot 2 but make it input to a slot 0. I have not found a way to do this and it limits where I can place the router and the usefulness of it. Thanks!


    A single router can only extract items OR Insert them, not both, you would require two routers.


    Has anyone found a way to use a router to pull items from a line of 4 or so different ic2 machines, without it going nuts and pulling items from hoppers ontop and other random chests it deems connected to the system (because theres no machine filter option for "ic2 machine") I get the feeling i'm going to need four routers and my idea for a single output chest is going down the drain...
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on [CLOSED] Quiddity Modding
    Quote from Ecu

    You pretty much stated it yourself. A chest will break into components if broken by anything but silk touch. You'll lose a couple of the components and have to replace those, so you'll just have to replace those that are lost and rebuild it.


    Well, im glad it's not a total loss when you break a chest.
    I'm honestly not sure what I think about it though with losing ender pearls (presuming you keep it somewhat like the vanilla, or even the previous recipe). On one hand, theyre a pain to get a hold of, but on the other hand theyre really easy to get once you beat the end - which, with mods, isnt that hard to do. And i'm not sure about anyone else, but by the time I can start using ender chests (seeing as they require blase rods, if they still do) i'm usually at the stage where I could go kick some serious dragon ass :) .

    Quote from Ecu

    Silk touch isn't all that hard to get after 1.3.2 with Furnaces granting EXP, or even before that when you can quite easily make EXP farms using mob spawners or mob traps.

    Upgrades for larger storage is something I will never do, period, end of story.


    Anyone know if theres some way to make exp balls not display, and turn of exp sounds? it's going to get so distracting.

    I may have to look into the enchanting system... hmm...
    Does the enderchest require a diamond pick or better? If it can be broken with iron that would alleviate the extra cost in maintaining an enderchest breaker, for me atleast since you can't enchant a drill. I'd just have an enchanted iron pick as my "ender wrench" ;) .

    Now that I think about it 3 diamonds wouldn't be that much considering it'd last for ages - it's not like i'd waste it by mining with it.

    I'm glad actually that you're not making upgrades, we already have iron chests, and any reasonable automation modder can make a buffer system between ender chests to, in a sense, increase the capacity.

    To those who don't understand, you don't need big chests since the main use for enderchests -was- to either keep a set of restocked items with you wherever you go, which you can still do, you don't need tons of resources if you're travelling. 9 stacks of resupplied items is a lot of stuff, and if you're not restocking them with an enderchest at a base or something, you mayaswell go download one of the backpack mods, because you're not using enderchests at all.

    Or, to swap resources between bases, which would use automation systems, which means there isnt usually that many items in the enderchest at once.
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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    posted a message on [CLOSED] Quiddity Modding
    Quote from Ecu

    Now of course, with the new edition, chests will be more frustrating to move (requiring silk touch or frames) without breaking them into pieces. However, I feel that these balance changes help balance out the flexibility of Ender Storage with that of other types of storage.


    Can I ask which types of situations you we're considering with the need to use silk touch. personally I don't think relying on an enchantment in order to retreive a chest is a good idea, enchantments are too random imo, especially since I gather the chest recipe will probably be increased in cost.

    most mod player's in my experience never bother with enchantments... they do sort of... suck... (cep't thaumcraft I guess, but you can't rely on another mod for balance). Also most players advance beyond the enchantable tools, into mod tools which most aren't enchantable... what a pain.

    An example of a similar system is ofcourse IC2, with it's wrench, the machine removal isn't hugely random like the luck in getting an enchantment.
    The only reason I don't mind IC2's machines not breaking properly is because atleast ic2 offers the wrench with a decent removal rate.

    If you require enchantments to remove the chests, there will probably be a lot of people hugely paranoid about placing it properly - and take a look at DWs play style, bash it together... ooo - idea... change it. (well... maybe not a 'play style', as that changes daily, but that is a popular designing method).

    So, if I may ask, are you planning other removal methods? (frames don't really count btw, they just move the block around - not so great for inter-dimensional chests). Or if you break the chest do you get like parts that let you make a new chest for a relatively small extra cost? or some other system i'm not thinking of? or you just don't know and were flinging a random idea out there? or maybe its a secret?
    Posted in: Minecraft Mods
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