You are correct, but does it not help ones credibility to have produced a better item before "criticizing" someone elses? Although i wouldn't exactly call that criticism, looks more like slander to me.
It can help but it's not necessary by any means. The main issue in this case is only if their claims are wrong. To be slander it has to be above all else, false. While it may have not been constructive, and mostly just insulting, not all criticism is constructive nor does it have to be.
This is the sort of thing best judged on case by case basis, normally it's better to be polite and constructive. Except in this case due to developers such as Toxicated, and because of this "feature", I feel no sympathy for any rudeness towards this program or it's creators.
And I agree it has very wide and bad security holes if I understand them correctly. (i.e. dev status just for logging in with that name.) There are any number of ways that could have been coded intelligently.
Yes, i agree he should've put it on his site beforehand.
But it's other than that completely legal, It's not a back door into your computer, it's a 'back door' into the program, and hardly one at that.
You are entirely wrong. It is explicitly a backdoor that allows the controller to bypass both whitelists and banlists, and doing either without express permission from the server operator is in fact a violation of law in most countries. (Unsurprisingly both France and Germany have issues with this)
Of particular importance is that it appears to have been coded as a simple name comparison with no other validation whatsoever, so if someone managed to join an MCAdmin-equipped server using one of those two names (because the server is in offline mode and won't check the tokens...) then they might well be able to do whatever they please to said server. That's why professionally such backdoors are terrible form--because they can generally be exploited by people who didn't write them.
Oh my god, that chat recording is INSANE.
He acts like he should be treated like some celebrity because he wrote a program that some people use for an indie game. Like you'd know his name. He had no right do do that. And what's with the sensitivity? "Why do you hate me"?
Based on what I've seen here and in other recent threads, MCAdmin is an unstable program, but it's not nearly as unstable as it's creator. I'd recommend uninstalling it, and I feel that, in light of this, it should be done away with entirely.
A quote from the MCAdmin terms of service:
"The Developers have permission to Disable your server's connection for whatever reason they see fit. This is not necessarily an issue. If your server has been disabled it is most likely because you have broken one of the rules stated here."
I guess this is what you get for trusting a furry.
Mod Edit: None of that, please. This is descrimination, and probably trolling, and I would like to not see any more of it.
OP EDIT: *discrimination.
I was trolling, and apologized in a later post.
Right now I am unsure how to continue with solving the problem. As I am only 12 I can't solve everything as of yet and Dirordrian this is an. Exact copy of the u.s laws for computers
-top-
Federal Criminal Code Related to Computer Intrusions
18 U.S.C. § 1029. Fraud and Related Activity in Connection with Access Devices
18 U.S.C. § 1030. Fraud and Related Activity in Connection with Computers
18 U.S.C. § 1362. Communication Lines, Stations, or Systems
18 U.S.C. § 2510 et seq. Wire and Electronic Communications Interception and Interception of Oral Communications
18 U.S.C. § 2701 et seq. Stored Wire and Electronic Communications and Transactional Records Access
18 U.S.C. § 3121 et seq. Recording of Dialing, Routing, Addressing, and Signaling Information
These are crimes and punishments of the crime.
Allow me to save you some reading... the important one is http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1030.html so... U.S.C. Section 18 subsection 1030 (a)(2)(C) as well as (:cool.gif: for conspiracy to commit.
Quote from United States Code »
(a) Whoever— (2) intentionally accesses a computer without authorization or exceeds authorized access, and thereby obtains— (C) information from any protected computer;
Now, they're not in the US, but Germany and France have similar laws so while what they were doing is fairly pathetic, let's stop arguing about whether it was legal or not. The secret backdoor and the use of it were both illegal and unethical.
I knew the old topic of furrybashing would start. Yet again. -sigh- Ohwell.
I am just assuming people read who made the OP. So that's why I assume server owners know me.
I do not assume anyone else knowing me, why should they? I am not famous, nor do I wanna be.
However, how I acted that day, in a retrospective, was neither how I act normally nor how I should act.
Of course, you got to see, if you join a *public* server and the first thing you see is getting banned, that does not contribute to your happyness.
Although, my dear Bradster, why have you removed the part of BlaqSheep insulting me? Wanting to show me worse than I really am, oh wow, now you already fake chatlogs to flame at me.
Now seeing this info I believe he should be ip range banned from the internet it's self. Eventhough I still support droidian however with a lowered amount of abilities like the power to kill a server needs to be removed and any clientside abilities to change a server setting in anyway.
I just came into the Survival Multiplayer board to try and figure out how to set up a multiplayer server for my friends and I, and stumbled upon this thread. Thank you from stopping me before I potentially used MCAdmin. I feel the whole community should be warned about the implications of using MCAdmin, if the terms aren't clearly laid out when the program is being downloaded.
From the chat logs, both are a bit in the wrong... Bradster should have given him a bit longer to identify himself, and Doridian shouldn't have been playing "you should know who I am" games. And if you are obviously unwanted on a server, then you probably shouldn't make such an effort to try and stay there.
Yes if you made something and let someone use it for free and you feel they've spit in your face, that would be a bit frustrating. But then you should have set out your rules when you released the software.
He owns the global banlist servers, so he can do whatever the hell he wants with them. For all I care, he could make the globalban message "PENISPENISPENIS."
As I said, Apple can ban you from installing certain apps on your iPhone, even remotely delete it.
Apple can't connect to your iPhone and make calls though, can they? Enforcing terms of use and taking control of peoples system are completely different ethical boundaries. Your software is a system, controlled by your clients resources in their area of control, you are breaking serious boundaries by being able to assume control of resources belonging to another party for any reason.
Basically I think you are arguing the wrong points here, we are trying to make you see that what you have done is different to all the things you are comparing yourself to and I can assure you if you wish to be taken seriously as a programmer in the future you should heed the criticism and review your ethical code of conduct.
This attitude of "if you don't like it, don't use it" is immature and unproductive. Criticism should always be taken seriously.
However, how I acted that day, in a retrospective, was neither how I act normally nor how I should act.
Of course, you got to see, if you join a *public* server and the first thing you see is getting banned, that does not contribute to your happyness.
This topic is over and done with. What he did was wrong. But if you guys are just going to kick him while he is down
Now there is... I want to add my voice that I too feel Doridian is in the wrong.
I just came into the Survival Multiplayer board to try and figure out how to set up a multiplayer server for my friends and I, and stumbled upon this thread. Thank you from stopping me before I potentially used MCAdmin, and I sure as hell never will now.
then you are just being a **** and would be no more right than when Doridian committed his "crime."
Of course, knowing the internet, there will be at least 5 more self righteous idiots posting 3 posts apiece about how Doridian is wrong. Thanks internet, we know.
This attitude of "if you don't like it, don't use it" is immature and unproductive. Criticism should always be taken seriously.
No it isn't. If AT&T Yahoo ever took my criticism seriously, they'd probably have the best ISP on the planet. You know why they don't though? Because the CEOs at AT&T honestly just don't have the time to deal with idiots who think they know everything. Something tells me Doridian is the same.
Ok finally a solution you guys made him mad and this is his reaction. Oops I acidently made him mad too.
There is nothing more to be said now we must make some sort of agreement droidian agree on too. As in reduce the overpowerness of the devs to remove any sort of severside command abilities such as being able to kill someone else's sever.
This topic is over and done with. What he did was wrong. But if you guys are just going to kick him while he is down
The code still exists, which means for me and others, it is not over. For the record, I am not kicking anyone whether they are down or otherwise.
Quote from vindKtiv »
No it isn't.
Yes, it is. Just because AT&T or Yahoo do it too, doesn't make it any less immature and unproductive.
Quote from vindKtiv »
And pro-tip for life: nobody is gonna give you any respect unless you earn it. Contrary to internet belief, being a huge pain does not get you respect.
I wasn't trying to be a pain, I was giving friendly advice that adding backdoors into your code is a severe breech of the professional code of conduct among programmers.
I am not asking to be treated with respect, I thought we were just having a simple conversation with Doridian about the ethics of his programming technique, who is replying directly for himself, by the way.
Maxpm, the furry bit was trolling. Just a morsel of troll tacked on to the end of a legitimate post, however.
I'll also add that, for some reason, Doridian, you keep comparing your policies to those of Apple. I think that's a bit silly, but for the sake of argument, I'll take it. But would Steve Jobs ever remotely disable someone's Apple device because they insulted him? If someone saw Steve Jobs on the street and said "Hey dude, you suck", and he saw that they had an iPhone, could he legally have it disabled for that reason?
Of course not.
I'm gonna step away from this argument now. I think it's more ethical now that there's a TOS page. I still don't agree with it, and will not be using MCAdmin myself. To be honest, I don't think others should use it either, but I'm not going to hate on those who choose to, so long as they are aware of the risks involved. I also think it's terrible that this info didn't come out until somebody revealed it; this info on the "back door" should've been available as soon as it was implemented.
I love Minecraft, and, in general, I love people who love Minecraft. Happy playing. And Doridian, I respect your adding a TOS page, and I'm genuinely sorry if I offended you with the furry comment; I was just joking around. This is the internet, after all: I'm not gonna waste my time getting creeped out by furries when there's far more disturbing stuff out there.
I'm so glad I'm not using this piece of mis-coded software anymore. It was a problem from day 1. Is why I dumped it after my server upgrade, wasn't even working with XP.
GG - I hope a better MC admin tool comes around and this one dies off
Alright folks. I understand this is a touchy subject. I think it's important to discuss the issue that came up here, too, but I really must insist that we cut out on the flaming and trolling that I've seen glimpses of. If you want to explain why you don't like this 'backdoor', or make requests/suggestions about how it should be handled, that's fine. If you want to talk about how this or that person's an asshole, or to make judgemental comments about people's interests, that's totally not.
I would like to point out that Doridian apologized both for neglecting to mention the backdoor in the terms of service and for the way he acted on the chat with Bradster, and so I don't see why those particular missteps would need to be discussed any further.
I may have some requests of my own at some point, but I'm still looking into things so far. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, though, to make sure that people don't let their emotions get the best of them.
It can help but it's not necessary by any means. The main issue in this case is only if their claims are wrong. To be slander it has to be above all else, false. While it may have not been constructive, and mostly just insulting, not all criticism is constructive nor does it have to be.
This is the sort of thing best judged on case by case basis, normally it's better to be polite and constructive. Except in this case due to developers such as Toxicated, and because of this "feature", I feel no sympathy for any rudeness towards this program or it's creators.
And I agree it has very wide and bad security holes if I understand them correctly. (i.e. dev status just for logging in with that name.) There are any number of ways that could have been coded intelligently.
You are entirely wrong. It is explicitly a backdoor that allows the controller to bypass both whitelists and banlists, and doing either without express permission from the server operator is in fact a violation of law in most countries. (Unsurprisingly both France and Germany have issues with this)
Of particular importance is that it appears to have been coded as a simple name comparison with no other validation whatsoever, so if someone managed to join an MCAdmin-equipped server using one of those two names (because the server is in offline mode and won't check the tokens...) then they might well be able to do whatever they please to said server. That's why professionally such backdoors are terrible form--because they can generally be exploited by people who didn't write them.
He acts like he should be treated like some celebrity because he wrote a program that some people use for an indie game. Like you'd know his name. He had no right do do that. And what's with the sensitivity? "Why do you hate me"?
Based on what I've seen here and in other recent threads, MCAdmin is an unstable program, but it's not nearly as unstable as it's creator. I'd recommend uninstalling it, and I feel that, in light of this, it should be done away with entirely.
A quote from the MCAdmin terms of service:
"The Developers have permission to Disable your server's connection for whatever reason they see fit. This is not necessarily an issue. If your server has been disabled it is most likely because you have broken one of the rules stated here."
I guess this is what you get for trusting a furry.
Mod Edit: None of that, please. This is descrimination, and probably trolling, and I would like to not see any more of it.
OP EDIT: *discrimination.
I was trolling, and apologized in a later post.
I'm going to try to convince myself you're just a troll.
Allow me to save you some reading... the important one is http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1030.html so... U.S.C. Section 18 subsection 1030 (a)(2)(C) as well as (:cool.gif: for conspiracy to commit.
Now, they're not in the US, but Germany and France have similar laws so while what they were doing is fairly pathetic, let's stop arguing about whether it was legal or not. The secret backdoor and the use of it were both illegal and unethical.
I knew the old topic of furrybashing would start. Yet again. -sigh- Ohwell.
I am just assuming people read who made the OP. So that's why I assume server owners know me.
I do not assume anyone else knowing me, why should they? I am not famous, nor do I wanna be.
However, how I acted that day, in a retrospective, was neither how I act normally nor how I should act.
Of course, you got to see, if you join a *public* server and the first thing you see is getting banned, that does not contribute to your happyness.
Although, my dear Bradster, why have you removed the part of BlaqSheep insulting me? Wanting to show me worse than I really am, oh wow, now you already fake chatlogs to flame at me.
From the chat logs, both are a bit in the wrong... Bradster should have given him a bit longer to identify himself, and Doridian shouldn't have been playing "you should know who I am" games. And if you are obviously unwanted on a server, then you probably shouldn't make such an effort to try and stay there.
Yes if you made something and let someone use it for free and you feel they've spit in your face, that would be a bit frustrating. But then you should have set out your rules when you released the software.
Apple can't connect to your iPhone and make calls though, can they? Enforcing terms of use and taking control of peoples system are completely different ethical boundaries. Your software is a system, controlled by your clients resources in their area of control, you are breaking serious boundaries by being able to assume control of resources belonging to another party for any reason.
Basically I think you are arguing the wrong points here, we are trying to make you see that what you have done is different to all the things you are comparing yourself to and I can assure you if you wish to be taken seriously as a programmer in the future you should heed the criticism and review your ethical code of conduct.
This attitude of "if you don't like it, don't use it" is immature and unproductive. Criticism should always be taken seriously.
This topic is over and done with. What he did was wrong. But if you guys are just going to kick him while he is down
then you are just being a **** and would be no more right than when Doridian committed his "crime."
Of course, knowing the internet, there will be at least 5 more self righteous idiots posting 3 posts apiece about how Doridian is wrong. Thanks internet, we know.
No it isn't. If AT&T Yahoo ever took my criticism seriously, they'd probably have the best ISP on the planet. You know why they don't though? Because the CEOs at AT&T honestly just don't have the time to deal with idiots who think they know everything. Something tells me Doridian is the same.
There is nothing more to be said now we must make some sort of agreement droidian agree on too. As in reduce the overpowerness of the devs to remove any sort of severside command abilities such as being able to kill someone else's sever.
The code still exists, which means for me and others, it is not over. For the record, I am not kicking anyone whether they are down or otherwise.
Yes, it is. Just because AT&T or Yahoo do it too, doesn't make it any less immature and unproductive.
I wasn't trying to be a pain, I was giving friendly advice that adding backdoors into your code is a severe breech of the professional code of conduct among programmers.
I am not asking to be treated with respect, I thought we were just having a simple conversation with Doridian about the ethics of his programming technique, who is replying directly for himself, by the way.
I'll also add that, for some reason, Doridian, you keep comparing your policies to those of Apple. I think that's a bit silly, but for the sake of argument, I'll take it. But would Steve Jobs ever remotely disable someone's Apple device because they insulted him? If someone saw Steve Jobs on the street and said "Hey dude, you suck", and he saw that they had an iPhone, could he legally have it disabled for that reason?
Of course not.
I'm gonna step away from this argument now. I think it's more ethical now that there's a TOS page. I still don't agree with it, and will not be using MCAdmin myself. To be honest, I don't think others should use it either, but I'm not going to hate on those who choose to, so long as they are aware of the risks involved. I also think it's terrible that this info didn't come out until somebody revealed it; this info on the "back door" should've been available as soon as it was implemented.
I love Minecraft, and, in general, I love people who love Minecraft. Happy playing. And Doridian, I respect your adding a TOS page, and I'm genuinely sorry if I offended you with the furry comment; I was just joking around. This is the internet, after all: I'm not gonna waste my time getting creeped out by furries when there's far more disturbing stuff out there.
Peace
GG - I hope a better MC admin tool comes around and this one dies off
I would like to point out that Doridian apologized both for neglecting to mention the backdoor in the terms of service and for the way he acted on the chat with Bradster, and so I don't see why those particular missteps would need to be discussed any further.
I may have some requests of my own at some point, but I'm still looking into things so far. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, though, to make sure that people don't let their emotions get the best of them.