I suggest that you add craftable building blocks that have redstone wiring inside of them. These blocks would look normal blocks outside, except there would red redstone center on the sides where the redstone signal travel in it.
There should be 4 different types of these blocks.
1. Basic one has has only 2 sides opposed of each other that transmit the signal
2. Corner block that that also has only 2 sides transmitting the signal, but the sides are next to each other.
3. T-block that has 3 sides in the form of T.
4. +-block that that redstone on its every side (except bottom and top).
These blocks would rotate depending on the direction you place them.
The recipe should be made from any building blocks with the desired redstone wiring drawn in the center of it with redstone. Of course these recipes should produce minimum of 3 blocks due to increased amount of materials needed for just 1 blocks worth of wiring.
ie.
For corner block
Also possibly add a recipe where the center block is replaced with redstone torch, making the block work same way as above except the signal is inverted.
I don't see a use to this suggestion.. sure you can hide redstone this way but why don't you just cover it?
It allows you to easily transfer signal up and down, and place wires within walls that are just 1 block thick.
Also it allows you to direct the redstone signal more accurately as the circuit is crafted in the block instead of just connected to redstone dust on the adjacent blocks.
ie.
Two different signals next to each other.
Having the signal go right next to activatable blocks without activating them.
Also a lot easier to activate multiple blocks that are all next to each other. (for example a wall of pistons)
We need a mod first, and a lot of people downloading it and saying its excellent.
The requested behaviour is actually a subset of the behaviour which can be exhibited by my Redstone Gate mod. However, I did not address the appearance as suggested by Pyko. I am open to suggestions, though naturally I have my own goals with the block.
You would not introduce 44+ new blocks to do this but rather allow the block to be configured by a GUI and use that to set the proper metadata values.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
You would not introduce 44+ new blocks to do this but rather allow the block to be configured by a GUI and use that to set the proper metadata values.
It would be a pretty nice approach actually to just have 1 new block, and when you place it it would open a small GUI window where you would configure the internal wiring for it. Also with the GUI it would be a lot easier to add integrated circuit functions to the block (gates and repeaters).
The GUI could have 3x3x3 "building area" with 7 configurable slots (center and the midle of each side), where you could drag redstone wiring/one way wiring (diode) to the sides and gates/wiring to center of the block from "component menu". The "component menu" would have all the Logic gates and redstone wiring. Also it should remember the configuration of the last one or 2 placed blocks.
All the sides would have 5 states.
1. Not wired
2. Input
3. Output
4. Input (NOT)
5. Output (NOT)
And the center would have 4 states.
1. Wired
2. AND
3. OR
4. XOR
This would would just need couple new textures of the existing building block textures with small redstone dot on the middle (maybe it even could be overlayed on an existing texture so there would just need to be 1 redstone dot), and 6 textures for gates/inputs/outputs.
The "component menu" would have all the Logic gates (i.e. AND, OR, NOT, XOR, XNOR) and redstone wiring.
Those are just the common-gates using at most 2 inputs. There are gates with more inputs/outputs (e.g. FULL-adder: 3 in, 2 out) and many gates which have never been named. There are a total of 4.294.967.296 gates with 5 inputs and 1 output.
I fail to see why we would restrict us to an arbitrary subset if my mod can already express them all in a simple and concise manner.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
Those are just the common-gates using at most 2 inputs. There are gates with more inputs/outputs (e.g. FULL-adder: 3 in, 2 out) and many gates which have never been named. There are a total of 4.294.967.296 gates with 5 inputs and 1 output.
I fail to see why we would restrict us to an arbitrary subset if my mod can already express them all in a simple and concise manner.
I meant by no way to restrict them to basic gate functions any of the sides should work as either input or output for the gate if possible, even have different inputs and outputs for processing more than 1 signals at once. I'm still kinda shaping the idea within my head. Maybe a simple GUI with drag and drop interface for basic stuff like "3-in 1-out AND gate" and advanced one with truth tables.
Also moved NOT from the center block to the sides and removed some of the other center blocks that can be achieved by using NOT on the sides.
But remember, this is something we are trying to get into the real game, which means it needs to be simple, easy to use, not too difficult to use and not too overpowering.
Oh, I agree. There are many people who struggle with understanding redstone and only manage to run a wire from a switch to a door. As soon as gates enter the picture they are lost. In my opinion, having a block which says: "output is on when both inputs are on" is a lot easier to understand than "place 3 blocks in a line, put torches on both ends and one in front and place a wire in the middle".
In a sense, the real question is what problem do we want to solve and what are the constraints?
I my opinion, several problems play a role here:
Redstone circuitry is too large.
Redstone is hard to understand.
Redstone wiring is a ***** to use vertically.
Some constraints:
It needs to be efficient to compute and store.
It shouldn't introduce too many new blocks.
It should allow for players to be creative with it.
It should not be insanely overpowered.
My mod is a suggestion / solution to all these problem, and in my opinion fits the constraints. Though most feedback (or lack thereof) seems to indicate that nobody understands truth tables (which absolutely baffles me). I don't think my mod is overpowered either since most gates take less redstone to build in the old way than a single Redstone Gate does.
Mods are a great way to demonstrate suggestions and explore their consequences. I'm willing to build them if we can reach an agreement on what is a reasonable design. So if my mod is unsatisfactory, then please explain clearly to me why such that we can alter the design/design a new one. In my opinion it does not do too much, it does one thing only: map inputs onto outputs. Yes there are MANY combinations possible, but the same holds for regular redstone. The amount of combinations may sound intimidating, however the interface is not (in my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong).
There have been too many vague and duplicate suggestions for the redstone integrated circuit. I want this community to join their minds so we can solve it once and for all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
I think people would get wind of the simple GUI idea rather fast if the blocks in "component menu" would have a gate name and description when mouse pointer is hovered on.
ie.
Input - Signal coming to the block
Output - Signal leaving the block
Input(NOT) - Inverted signal coming to the block
Output(NOT) - Inverted signal leaving the block
AND-gate - Output is on when all inputs are on
OR-Gate - Output is on when any of the inputs is on
XOR-Gate - Output is on when the Inputs have different state
The advanced GUI page still could have the truth table for more "advanced" users.
While your mod seems simple enough for me to use, I do believe the truth tables are one thing that pushes people away.
While having a truth table for advanced users is a great thing, I do believe it would be a much more user friendly if there would be a function that allows people who know nothing of gates and truth tables before to do something simple constructions, while teaching them the basics of gates.
Here I present a simple GUI-layout idea, that might make it easier for beginners to do something, while still keeping the same functionality for advanced users.
Simple color coding to show which block goes where. Block name and tool tip on mouse over. All sides are not wired on default, center is wired. Drag and drop blocks to place em, to remove drag them away from slot and it resets to default state.
Inputs always face the center when placed on a slot, while outputs face away.
Press advanced for Truth Tables.
I think people would get wind of the simple GUI idea rather fast if the blocks in "component menu" would have a gate name and description when mouse pointer is hovered on.
The advanced GUI page still could have the truth table for more "advanced" users.
...
Interesting idea, I'm warming up to it.
I'm not a huge fan of the 3 layers you have in that image, as none of the Minecraft GUIs present their content like that. I was planning to re-orient the input and truth table grid of my mod and I've put your ideas into a proof of concept box of this new layout. The wood block is just a placeholder, the actual final texture of the gate would be utilized.
I'm not sure if I should utilize a click-to-change kind of interface for these or have a palette and use drag and drop (just like items in a chest). Regardless, the possible values for the inputs/outputs would be: on (image: A/C power source), off (image: ground), in (image: diode), out (image: diode), inverted in: (image: not-gate), inverted out: (image: not-gate).
There would be another palette for the gate itself which can contain either: a wire (redstone +), AND-gate, OR-gate, XOR-gate, or custom. Custom would allow direct editing of the truth-table.
The bottom palette would not be there when using a click-to-change kind of interface. The truth table would automatically reflect any changes made on the left. As soon as a user makes manual changes in the truth table all inputs and outputs will change to the non-negated kind and the gate type will be set to custom.
I'm not too happy about the idea of having an advanced button to open a sub-interface. The OK button does not need to be there, closing the interface commits any changes made. If you really want to clear then harvest and replace the gate.
Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
The bottom palette would not be there when using a click-to-change kind of interface. The truth table would automatically reflect any changes made on the left. As soon as a user makes manual changes in the truth table all inputs and outputs will change to the non-negated kind and the gate type will be set to custom.
I'm not too happy about the idea of having an advanced button to open a sub-interface.
Actually that sounds pretty solid layout, having the truth table visible even when you are using the "block-interface" would help people to familiarize how truth tables work.
Also I'm starting to think that there should be 2 blocks, one for basic redstone wiring and another one with gate functions.
Actually that sounds pretty solid layout, having the truth table visible even when you are using the "block-interface" would help people to familiarize how truth tables work.
Also I'm starting to think that there should be 2 blocks, one for basic redstone wiring and another one with gate functions.
You might be right. The way my current Redstone Gate block works is that it converts 9 dust into a gate (and vice versa) such that it doubles as redstone storage. I also thought about making it look like a solid red block which lights up and shows dust particles. But, I'm a bit reluctant because I don't want it to become a universal super-block with too much functionality for its own good.
When I was building my 7-segment display I used 7 gates for the decoding and the rest (about 40) for wiring only. The high cost of 9 redstone dust is a good choice for the gate (you can build many regular gates with less than 9 redstone dust). However, for a simple vertical wire, the cost is way too high.
So how about a redstone block crafted by 4 redstone dust (2x2) which accepts current and replicates it in all directions except the receiving side (input direction can only change on a rising edge) and emits level 7 light (like a redstone torch).
Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
I kinda meant a block that has configurable option to transmit to both ways or not on every side of it.
No point of slapping gates to every block if you just need to make some redstone wiring.
Also the appearance should be configurable, or be decided by the crafting recipe.
And by configurable I mean the sides without redstone wiring would look just like normal stone/wood/etc block.
Also due to textures not always telling which way is which, these blocks should always face same direction, and on the configuration the options would be North East Sout West, instead of Front Right Left Back. Maybe the gate block could also work same way to make it more consistent by having unified system how the faces are configured.
Also due to textures not always telling which way is which, these blocks should always face same direction, and on the configuration the options would be North East Sout West, instead of Front Right Left Back. Maybe the gate block could also work same way to make it more consistent by having unified system how the faces are configured.
I very deliberately moved away from North East South West orientation for the gate as it would cause the truth tables to change depending on block orientation. I want to have a visually recognizable pattern for each specific gate such that taking a screenshot of the configuration is a sufficient tutorial for someone else to copy it, regardless of block orientation.
Furthermore, the player doesn't necessarily know where North is, so a relative orientation based on the texture works better. Yes, I know you can easily determine North but not every player does.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
There should be 4 different types of these blocks.
1. Basic one has has only 2 sides opposed of each other that transmit the signal
2. Corner block that that also has only 2 sides transmitting the signal, but the sides are next to each other.
3. T-block that has 3 sides in the form of T.
4. +-block that that redstone on its every side (except bottom and top).
These blocks would rotate depending on the direction you place them.
The recipe should be made from any building blocks with the desired redstone wiring drawn in the center of it with redstone. Of course these recipes should produce minimum of 3 blocks due to increased amount of materials needed for just 1 blocks worth of wiring.
ie.
For corner block
Also possibly add a recipe where the center block is replaced with redstone torch, making the block work same way as above except the signal is inverted.
It allows you to easily transfer signal up and down, and place wires within walls that are just 1 block thick.
Also it allows you to direct the redstone signal more accurately as the circuit is crafted in the block instead of just connected to redstone dust on the adjacent blocks.
ie.
Two different signals next to each other.
Having the signal go right next to activatable blocks without activating them.
Also a lot easier to activate multiple blocks that are all next to each other. (for example a wall of pistons)
The requested behaviour is actually a subset of the behaviour which can be exhibited by my Redstone Gate mod. However, I did not address the appearance as suggested by Pyko. I am open to suggestions, though naturally I have my own goals with the block.
You would not introduce 44+ new blocks to do this but rather allow the block to be configured by a GUI and use that to set the proper metadata values.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
It would be a pretty nice approach actually to just have 1 new block, and when you place it it would open a small GUI window where you would configure the internal wiring for it. Also with the GUI it would be a lot easier to add integrated circuit functions to the block (gates and repeaters).
The GUI could have 3x3x3 "building area" with 7 configurable slots (center and the midle of each side), where you could drag redstone wiring/one way wiring (diode) to the sides and gates/wiring to center of the block from "component menu". The "component menu" would have all the Logic gates and redstone wiring. Also it should remember the configuration of the last one or 2 placed blocks.
All the sides would have 5 states.
1. Not wired
2. Input
3. Output
4. Input (NOT)
5. Output (NOT)
And the center would have 4 states.
1. Wired
2. AND
3. OR
4. XOR
This would would just need couple new textures of the existing building block textures with small redstone dot on the middle (maybe it even could be overlayed on an existing texture so there would just need to be 1 redstone dot), and 6 textures for gates/inputs/outputs.
Those are just the common-gates using at most 2 inputs. There are gates with more inputs/outputs (e.g. FULL-adder: 3 in, 2 out) and many gates which have never been named. There are a total of 4.294.967.296 gates with 5 inputs and 1 output.
I fail to see why we would restrict us to an arbitrary subset if my mod can already express them all in a simple and concise manner.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
I meant by no way to restrict them to basic gate functions any of the sides should work as either input or output for the gate if possible, even have different inputs and outputs for processing more than 1 signals at once. I'm still kinda shaping the idea within my head. Maybe a simple GUI with drag and drop interface for basic stuff like "3-in 1-out AND gate" and advanced one with truth tables.
Also moved NOT from the center block to the sides and removed some of the other center blocks that can be achieved by using NOT on the sides.
Oh, I agree. There are many people who struggle with understanding redstone and only manage to run a wire from a switch to a door. As soon as gates enter the picture they are lost. In my opinion, having a block which says: "output is on when both inputs are on" is a lot easier to understand than "place 3 blocks in a line, put torches on both ends and one in front and place a wire in the middle".
In a sense, the real question is what problem do we want to solve and what are the constraints?
I my opinion, several problems play a role here:
Mods are a great way to demonstrate suggestions and explore their consequences. I'm willing to build them if we can reach an agreement on what is a reasonable design. So if my mod is unsatisfactory, then please explain clearly to me why such that we can alter the design/design a new one. In my opinion it does not do too much, it does one thing only: map inputs onto outputs. Yes there are MANY combinations possible, but the same holds for regular redstone. The amount of combinations may sound intimidating, however the interface is not (in my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong).
There have been too many vague and duplicate suggestions for the redstone integrated circuit. I want this community to join their minds so we can solve it once and for all.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
ie.
Input - Signal coming to the block
Output - Signal leaving the block
Input(NOT) - Inverted signal coming to the block
Output(NOT) - Inverted signal leaving the block
AND-gate - Output is on when all inputs are on
OR-Gate - Output is on when any of the inputs is on
XOR-Gate - Output is on when the Inputs have different state
The advanced GUI page still could have the truth table for more "advanced" users.
While your mod seems simple enough for me to use, I do believe the truth tables are one thing that pushes people away.
While having a truth table for advanced users is a great thing, I do believe it would be a much more user friendly if there would be a function that allows people who know nothing of gates and truth tables before to do something simple constructions, while teaching them the basics of gates.
Here I present a simple GUI-layout idea, that might make it easier for beginners to do something, while still keeping the same functionality for advanced users.
Simple color coding to show which block goes where. Block name and tool tip on mouse over. All sides are not wired on default, center is wired. Drag and drop blocks to place em, to remove drag them away from slot and it resets to default state.
Inputs always face the center when placed on a slot, while outputs face away.
Press advanced for Truth Tables.
Interesting idea, I'm warming up to it.
I'm not a huge fan of the 3 layers you have in that image, as none of the Minecraft GUIs present their content like that. I was planning to re-orient the input and truth table grid of my mod and I've put your ideas into a proof of concept box of this new layout. The wood block is just a placeholder, the actual final texture of the gate would be utilized.
I'm not sure if I should utilize a click-to-change kind of interface for these or have a palette and use drag and drop (just like items in a chest). Regardless, the possible values for the inputs/outputs would be: on (image: A/C power source), off (image: ground), in (image: diode), out (image: diode), inverted in: (image: not-gate), inverted out: (image: not-gate).
There would be another palette for the gate itself which can contain either: a wire (redstone +), AND-gate, OR-gate, XOR-gate, or custom. Custom would allow direct editing of the truth-table.
I'm leaning towards roughly the following layout:
The bottom palette would not be there when using a click-to-change kind of interface. The truth table would automatically reflect any changes made on the left. As soon as a user makes manual changes in the truth table all inputs and outputs will change to the non-negated kind and the gate type will be set to custom.
I'm not too happy about the idea of having an advanced button to open a sub-interface. The OK button does not need to be there, closing the interface commits any changes made. If you really want to clear then harvest and replace the gate.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
Actually that sounds pretty solid layout, having the truth table visible even when you are using the "block-interface" would help people to familiarize how truth tables work.
Also I'm starting to think that there should be 2 blocks, one for basic redstone wiring and another one with gate functions.
You might be right. The way my current Redstone Gate block works is that it converts 9 dust into a gate (and vice versa) such that it doubles as redstone storage. I also thought about making it look like a solid red block which lights up and shows dust particles. But, I'm a bit reluctant because I don't want it to become a universal super-block with too much functionality for its own good.
When I was building my 7-segment display I used 7 gates for the decoding and the rest (about 40) for wiring only. The high cost of 9 redstone dust is a good choice for the gate (you can build many regular gates with less than 9 redstone dust). However, for a simple vertical wire, the cost is way too high.
So how about a redstone block crafted by 4 redstone dust (2x2) which accepts current and replicates it in all directions except the receiving side (input direction can only change on a rising edge) and emits level 7 light (like a redstone torch).
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
No point of slapping gates to every block if you just need to make some redstone wiring.
Also the appearance should be configurable, or be decided by the crafting recipe.
And by configurable I mean the sides without redstone wiring would look just like normal stone/wood/etc block.
Also due to textures not always telling which way is which, these blocks should always face same direction, and on the configuration the options would be North East Sout West, instead of Front Right Left Back. Maybe the gate block could also work same way to make it more consistent by having unified system how the faces are configured.
I very deliberately moved away from North East South West orientation for the gate as it would cause the truth tables to change depending on block orientation. I want to have a visually recognizable pattern for each specific gate such that taking a screenshot of the configuration is a sufficient tutorial for someone else to copy it, regardless of block orientation.
Furthermore, the player doesn't necessarily know where North is, so a relative orientation based on the texture works better. Yes, I know you can easily determine North but not every player does.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.