Well, marijuana should be legal.
Stuff like Krocidile, Meth, Crack, and Heroine should stay illegal.
While I do agree that they are ****ed up ****, and they should be kept out of reach for the general public, why must you make people who use them criminal? Remember, it's still a victimless crime.
And I'm off to bed. Night.
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"A man paints with his brains and not with his hands."
Michelangelo
Mod edit: Shairn used lock!
It's super effective!
Pointless thread has fainted!
If someone is tired and is late for work, and gets in a near-fatal accident because they were in a hurry, should the society care? They were the ones driving too fast. They were the ones late for work, and thus making hasty decisions.
We do have laws against those things, though. There are laws against driving too fast. There are laws against driving while impaired that, yes, also cover excessive drowsiness. That person was never arguing that it was his choice to go as fast as he wanted, and he didn't feel that he should be excluded from those laws because of it. He will be found at fault for the accident. He will be punished for breaking the law.
He accepts society's punishments, so he is offered society's help.
Of course, if I happen to OD (which I will not because I respect the substances I use to assure that nobody gets hurt and plus I use substances that have a dose-overdose rate of about 1000 to 1) I should be able to go and get help. Not because it isn't my fault, but because I shouldn't be left to die.
Well, my comment was mostly directed at the OP because of this:
I know that some drugs CAN cause death. But the person who decides to take those drugs, is sober. They are clearly thinking through their actions before taking the drugs, and they know the possible outcomes. They are making a CHOICE to harm their body, and it is THEIR body.
It's THEIR choice and THEIR body. It's THEIR responsibility, not someone else's. He is saying the same thing I was suggesting up there. The OP wants the ambulance to never come.
This is not a stoner's plea for the legalization of marijuana. This is a basic question of human rights and liberties. I believe that all drugs should be legalized, or at least, decriminalized. I am not a drug addict. I've been sober for seven, almost eight months now. I'm a supporter of the legalization of drugs for one reason. The government, or anyone else, should NOT have the right to tell people what they can or cannot put into their body. I am not denying the fact that some drugs DO have terrible side affects. I know that some drugs CAN cause death. But the person who decides to take those drugs, is sober. They are clearly thinking through their actions before taking the drugs, and they know the possible outcomes. They are making a CHOICE to harm their body, and it is THEIR body.
Yes, yes, yes.
People, when hearing this argument, will say that sometimes people harm OTHER people when under the influence. This is true. People are killed by other people who are inebriated. When this happens, I believe the person at fault, should be in trouble for what they did while under the influence. Not FOR being under the influence. Again, they make the conscience choice to do drugs. They should take responsibility for their actions while on the drugs. If someone cannot handle the drugs, they shouldn't do them. If they do, they will take responsibility. It's that simple.
Yes
tl;dr - Drugs should be legal, because it's their body, not the government's.
And yes.
To elaborate on the second paragraph: Its not hard to avoid things like drink driving, by planning ahead and taking a taxi or having a designated driver. If you know you're liable to do stupid things while drunk or under the influence of drugs, and you don't take precautions, then it's a stupid decision while sober and just the same as someone being a reckless driver while not under the influence; you're fully responsible.
Banning drugs to stop these kinds of things is like banning ski masks to stop robberies.
We do have laws against those things, though. There are laws against driving too fast. There are laws against driving while impaired that, yes, also cover excessive drowsiness. That person was never arguing that it was his choice to go as fast as he wanted, and he didn't feel that he should be excluded from those laws because of it. He will be found at fault for the accident. He will be punished for breaking the law.
He was the only one hurt. Nothing else than his car and himself got hurt. Let me reword that.
They are having severe sleeping problems after finding out their partner was having an unwanted affair, so they, without wanting to do it themselves, drive while sleepy and fast to get to work as fast as they can. In that state of mind they are focusing on different things, such as making it to work early and the affair, and not focusing on the driving itself. They collide with a tree. They are still able to walk outside the car and ask for help, to call an ambulance. Is it okay if someone goes by, not doing anything? Just leaving them there to die because they did a mistake they didn't want to make in the first place? That they had power over but they didn't have the willpower?
Now read this:
Now, compare that to a user of a hard drug. They are having severe withdrawal effects after trying to quit cold turkey, so they, without wanting to do it themselves[1] take too much, as they in that state of mind focus can't on the dose. They are focusing on not-feeling-like-****. They overdose. They are still able to walk outside and ask for help, to call an ambulance. They are not violent. Is it okay if someone goes by, not doing anything? Just leaving them there, to die because they did a mistake they didn't want to make? That they had power over but they didn't have the willpower?
My point is, drug users are humans too. They don't like being addicted. Nobody likes using meth after the few times it actually feels like something.
[1] Being forced by the symptoms is the most common reason for relapse, for every drug including alcohol
It may be the drug user's body that the drugs are affecting, but their usage also greatly affects other people at the same time. When someone chooses to use drugs it also impacts the lives of the people around them (friends, family, neighbors, tax payers, etc) and even people in other parts of the world. Even if all drugs were made legal it wouldn't mean that there would be no more drug trafficking related deaths in the world.
How does personal drug usage in personal space, with no one around and a drug that does no damage to anyone else effect any of those people? My friends are all okay with my psychedelics use. My family seems to like me more now, as I'm calmer and friendlier. Neighbors don't give a **** since the closest neighbor to me is about 500 meters away (one third of a mile) Tax payers love me since I'll never evade taxes, and I'm happy to pay them.
And yes, almost all drug users are respectful of other people.
Illegal drugs are big money, and there will always be gangs/cartels who use violence and murder to control parts of that market. This is still a huge problem with resources and materials that are perfectly legal around the world (such as diamonds). As with the diamonds issue, changing the legal status of a substance ore resource doesn't change the fact that innocent people are murdered/tortured over these things.
Of course it doesn't. But it lowers the amount murdered, as the money flowing in for them is lowered.
To me, saying that illegal drugs should be made legal/decriminalized is like a huge middle finger to all the innocents who are hurt or killed because of the use of illegal drugs.
And to me the war on drugs is like giving a huge middle finger and sticking it up the asses of the people who were wrongfully convicted to years in prison, for essentially researching their own body and mind and the world surrounding it. I am not saying, yet again, that we should legalize everything. I'm saying we should stop this failed and ****ed up war on drugs. It has ruined lives, killed them, made people not be able to get a job because the the higher-ups mandates that you cannot hire ex-drug users, et cetera.
And are you for legal alcohol, if you are, take a look at this:
But is the experience of a single being like you or me enough to pinpoint whether or not it is generally bad for society? I think not, but I do think that if you can use it wisely it will come with great benefits to individuals, and maybe even a society as a whole.
And watch this, I'm reposting this because it portraits all my views in one short video:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A man paints with his brains and not with his hands."
Michelangelo
Mod edit: Shairn used lock!
It's super effective!
Pointless thread has fainted!
Should we let people make bad decisions or should we try to discourage them from doing so? That's what I see it as. Those bad decisions can very well have a cost on society, even if it is just your own body you're putting stuff in. If you really want to be able to make your own decisions about your own body and then deal with the consequences, then should society have the option of turning its back on you when you mess up? Should the ambulance come when you OD, or should you be left do deal with the consequences and die?
There is a case to be made for some drugs to be decriminalized or legalized based upon their effects on the user, but it has to be taken on a substance-by-substance basis. A blanket policy for all drugs is nonsensical, if consistent. Some drugs have no business being decriminalized. Take heroin as an example. Why in hells should it be decriminalized? Even amongst hard drugs, it's extraordinarily dangerous. Its use should be as heavily discouraged as possible.
The ambulance comes when you OD on alcohol, so why not other drugs? Do you know how much money we spend treating cancer patients who are/were addicted to tobacco? If we go to such lengths, why should it not extend to other substances which are less hazardous to your health?
And speaking of heroin, the best way to reduce its use is actually to not only decriminalize it, but also give it out for free:
Don't forget that people from different countries don't think & behave the same. That applies for Europe too.
For example: a british isn't like a spaniard, the italian isn't like a russian, the german isn't like a french and so forth( +viceversa). This is another reason why drugs are illegal and should stay that way for a long-long time untill our civilization -as species- reaches a new upper level regarding the psyche of the masses. The type of goverment or ideology is irrelevant in that case.
Also, it's a very strong and well informed reason, if I might say so.
How is this relevant in the slightest? I detect a leap in logic.
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This enlightening post brought to you courtesy of a serious overabundance of free time.
He was the only one hurt. Nothing else than his car and himself got hurt. Let me reword that.
They are having severe sleeping problems after finding out their partner was having an unwanted affair, so they, without wanting to do it themselves, drive while sleepy and fast to get to work as fast as they can. In that state of mind they are focusing on different things, such as making it to work early and the affair, and not focusing on the driving itself. They collide with a tree. They are still able to walk outside the car and ask for help, to call an ambulance. Is it okay if someone goes by, not doing anything? Just leaving them there to die because they did a mistake they didn't want to make in the first place? That they had power over but they didn't have the willpower?
Now read this:
Now, compare that to a user of a hard drug. They are having severe withdrawal effects after trying to quit cold turkey, so they, without wanting to do it themselves[1] take too much, as they in that state of mind focus can't on the dose. They are focusing on not-feeling-like-****. They overdose. They are still able to walk outside and ask for help, to call an ambulance. They are not violent. Is it okay if someone goes by, not doing anything? Just leaving them there, to die because they did a mistake they didn't want to make? That they had power over but they didn't have the willpower?
My point is, drug users are humans too. They don't like being addicted. Nobody likes using meth after the few times it actually feels like something.
[1] Being forced by the symptoms is the most common reason for relapse, for every drug including alcohol
This is the most laughably pathetic comparison ever constructed. Whatever point you may have been trying at is completely destroyed by your insane assumption that using the same word in both situations and putting it in bold makes the comparison in any way valid.
I'm sorry, are you trying to say that relationships and heroin are equal in merit? Getting into a heroin addiction and getting into a relationship are very different things, you know, and the likely outcomes of each are extremely different. Not all women are cheaters. All heroin is addictive. Relationships are a potentially productive endeavor that can lead to a lifetime of happiness and the creation of offspring. Heroin is a recreational drug.
still, having one of the lowest addiction rates in the netherlands shows that making drugs "legal" works better then fighting them.
Please try to understand that not all cultures work the same. Just because one culture handles select subjects a certain way does not mean all or most other cultures will handle it the same way.
All drugs should be legal for anyone over the age of 18. The deadly ones kill the people stupid enough to take them and the non-deadly ones shouldn't be illegal anyway.
If you oppose legalization you are for the war on drugs. Remember that. You are for locking up non-violent non-criminal people, making their lives even more shittier in all sorts of ways, like taking years from their lives and making it impossible for them to get a satisfying job which pays more than 1,500$ per month with 50 hours per week + extra with no benefits.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A man paints with his brains and not with his hands."
Michelangelo
Mod edit: Shairn used lock!
It's super effective!
Pointless thread has fainted!
If you oppose legalization you are for the war on drugs. Remember that. You are for locking up non-violent non-criminal people, making their lives even more shittier in all sorts of ways, like taking years from their lives and making it impossible for them to get a satisfying job which pays more than 1,500$ per month with 50 hours per week + extra with no benefits.
There are two options:
1. Legalize "soft" drugs that don't really do any harm.
2. Legalize all drugs for people over 18, and use them to weed idiots out of the gene pool.
No, just no. Lets say this someone gets high on marijuana and then goes out and drives because they don't know a **** of what they are doing. They run and hit a mini van on a highway they live but 5 children and 2 adults die in the crash. The man goes to jail for 7 counts of felony man slaughter. His family is sad and the victims family is sad. This isn't just his body he is hurting it is all of the people he could hurt. By the way this happened in my city months ago. He has a life sentence with no parole. They most definitely should NOT legalize drugs. Other than that it is also toxic and addictive and makes you do stupid things.
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KoalaKraftPvP.Beastnode.Net <----- Fun PvP Griefing server, small community looking for new members!
No, just no. Lets say this someone gets high on marijuana and then goes out and drives because they don't know a **** of what they are doing. They run and hit a mini van on a highway they live but 5 children and 2 adults die in the crash. The man goes to jail for 7 counts of felony man slaughter. His family is sad and the victims family is sad. This isn't just his body he is hurting it is all of the people he could hurt. By the way this happened in my city months ago. He has a life sentence with no parole. They most definitely should NOT legalize drugs. Other than that it is also toxic and addictive and makes you do stupid things.
Alcohol is legal and it's responsible for doing the EXACT thing you just described.
Your argument = invalid.
Stuff like Krocidile, Meth, Crack, and Heroine should stay illegal.
While I do agree that they are ****ed up ****, and they should be kept out of reach for the general public, why must you make people who use them criminal? Remember, it's still a victimless crime.
And I'm off to bed. Night.
Michelangelo
We do have laws against those things, though. There are laws against driving too fast. There are laws against driving while impaired that, yes, also cover excessive drowsiness. That person was never arguing that it was his choice to go as fast as he wanted, and he didn't feel that he should be excluded from those laws because of it. He will be found at fault for the accident. He will be punished for breaking the law.
He accepts society's punishments, so he is offered society's help.
Well, my comment was mostly directed at the OP because of this:
It's THEIR choice and THEIR body. It's THEIR responsibility, not someone else's. He is saying the same thing I was suggesting up there. The OP wants the ambulance to never come.
Yes, yes, yes.
Yes
And yes.
To elaborate on the second paragraph: Its not hard to avoid things like drink driving, by planning ahead and taking a taxi or having a designated driver. If you know you're liable to do stupid things while drunk or under the influence of drugs, and you don't take precautions, then it's a stupid decision while sober and just the same as someone being a reckless driver while not under the influence; you're fully responsible.
Banning drugs to stop these kinds of things is like banning ski masks to stop robberies.
[simg]http://i54.tinypic.com/4zzw1z.png[/simg]
You just started another S**t fight on the forums
He was the only one hurt. Nothing else than his car and himself got hurt. Let me reword that.
They are having severe sleeping problems after finding out their partner was having an unwanted affair, so they, without wanting to do it themselves, drive while sleepy and fast to get to work as fast as they can. In that state of mind they are focusing on different things, such as making it to work early and the affair, and not focusing on the driving itself. They collide with a tree. They are still able to walk outside the car and ask for help, to call an ambulance. Is it okay if someone goes by, not doing anything? Just leaving them there to die because they did a mistake they didn't want to make in the first place? That they had power over but they didn't have the willpower?
Now read this:
Now, compare that to a user of a hard drug. They are having severe withdrawal effects after trying to quit cold turkey, so they, without wanting to do it themselves[1] take too much, as they in that state of mind focus can't on the dose. They are focusing on not-feeling-like-****. They overdose. They are still able to walk outside and ask for help, to call an ambulance. They are not violent. Is it okay if someone goes by, not doing anything? Just leaving them there, to die because they did a mistake they didn't want to make? That they had power over but they didn't have the willpower?
My point is, drug users are humans too. They don't like being addicted. Nobody likes using meth after the few times it actually feels like something.
[1] Being forced by the symptoms is the most common reason for relapse, for every drug including alcohol
How does personal drug usage in personal space, with no one around and a drug that does no damage to anyone else effect any of those people? My friends are all okay with my psychedelics use. My family seems to like me more now, as I'm calmer and friendlier. Neighbors don't give a **** since the closest neighbor to me is about 500 meters away (one third of a mile) Tax payers love me since I'll never evade taxes, and I'm happy to pay them.
And yes, almost all drug users are respectful of other people.
Of course it doesn't. But it lowers the amount murdered, as the money flowing in for them is lowered.
And to me the war on drugs is like giving a huge middle finger and sticking it up the asses of the people who were wrongfully convicted to years in prison, for essentially researching their own body and mind and the world surrounding it. I am not saying, yet again, that we should legalize everything. I'm saying we should stop this failed and ****ed up war on drugs. It has ruined lives, killed them, made people not be able to get a job because the the higher-ups mandates that you cannot hire ex-drug users, et cetera.
And are you for legal alcohol, if you are, take a look at this:
_________________________________________________________________________________________
And also, to quote myself from a previous post:
And watch this, I'm reposting this because it portraits all my views in one short video:
Michelangelo
The ambulance comes when you OD on alcohol, so why not other drugs? Do you know how much money we spend treating cancer patients who are/were addicted to tobacco? If we go to such lengths, why should it not extend to other substances which are less hazardous to your health?
And speaking of heroin, the best way to reduce its use is actually to not only decriminalize it, but also give it out for free:
QFFT
How is this relevant in the slightest? I detect a leap in logic.
This is the most laughably pathetic comparison ever constructed. Whatever point you may have been trying at is completely destroyed by your insane assumption that using the same word in both situations and putting it in bold makes the comparison in any way valid.
I'm sorry, are you trying to say that relationships and heroin are equal in merit? Getting into a heroin addiction and getting into a relationship are very different things, you know, and the likely outcomes of each are extremely different. Not all women are cheaters. All heroin is addictive. Relationships are a potentially productive endeavor that can lead to a lifetime of happiness and the creation of offspring. Heroin is a recreational drug.
Please try to understand that not all cultures work the same. Just because one culture handles select subjects a certain way does not mean all or most other cultures will handle it the same way.
Michelangelo
Yes. That. All of that.
Wait, are you for or against the war on drugs? Sorry, I'm tired.
Michelangelo
1. Legalize "soft" drugs that don't really do any harm.
2. Legalize all drugs for people over 18, and use them to weed idiots out of the gene pool.
I vote 2.
Hooray for protective conservative parents!
Alcohol is legal and it's responsible for doing the EXACT thing you just described.
Your argument = invalid.
And read the pathetic response that the Obama administration put out to respond to all the cannabis-related petitions
After reading it read this from NORML
And read this from /r/trees, ****ing shocking
Michelangelo