They will kill and do what they need to to survive.
********. The mere existence of social species puts to rest the idea that selfish behavior is somehow natural or optimal. It isn't.
Why would they sacrifice themselves for you when it means the end of them?
Empathy, compassion, love, etc. These emotions arise because it *is* beneficial to be selfless in natural situations, especially when it comes to your children or loved ones. And then there are even selfish motivations for self-sacrifice. Killing yourself to save someone saves you from having to deal with the pain of losing them. There are lots of reasons for this both selfish and otherwise.
One does not survive outside of civilization by being nice and trying to help everyone.
And you don't survive inside of a civilization by raping, stealing, and pillaging. You want to be a selfish *****? Fine, you can go do it by yourself in the woods, but that kind of crap won't be tolerated within a society exactly because it's self-destructive.
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Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
I would just like to point out that trees have no consciousness, but will grow in front of, block other plants from getting light and water, and suck the nutrients from the soil around their massive root systems, killing nearby plants.
That was a joke by the way, as I am sure your comment was too, since you know what I mean
********. The mere existence of social species puts to rest the idea that selfish behavior is somehow natural or optimal. It isn't.
Sure families and groups of animals will exhibit this behavior you mentioned, especially inter-species, but as an ecosystem, it cannot survive without one species killing members of another for survival. Look at fish in the ocean. There is no way for a big fish to exist without killing a smaller fish.
Empathy, compassion, love, etc. These emotions arise because it *is* beneficial to be selfless in natural situations, especially when it comes to your children or loved ones. And then there are even selfish motivations for self-sacrifice. Killing yourself to save someone saves you from having to deal with the pain of losing them. There are lots of reasons for this both selfish and otherwise.
Now that you point this out, I see what you mean about single species and families, but in nature as a whole, this unification does not exist.
And you don't survive inside of a civilization by raping, stealing, and pillaging. You want to be a selfish *****? Fine, you can go do it by yourself in the woods, but that kind of crap won't be tolerated within a society exactly because it's self-destructive.
The reason I say one does not survive outside of civilization by caring and helping is because one does survive in civilization with these traits to an extent. I think you flipped around my logic in a way I did not mean it.
I think an interesting point that arises from this discussion is the line at where people stop exhibiting communal behavior, and I am saying that they do, you are right in what you said, just to an extent. For some people it is only themselves. For many is is their family. For most it is their family, friends and anyone in need. I think that it would be neat to see this line expanded, but it is just not something that happens, or is likely to happen for thousands of years. This is a very fascinating concept, so thank you for triggering this thought with this little discussion.
I think my previous comments were at the extreme, so thank you for bringing this up, even though I do not fully agree with everything you said.
The same thing that's wrong with having pride in whatever toilet you use. It's silly. I've never once stood up and said "I'm proud to have taken a dump in the O'Hare airport bathrooms."
the question now becomes: Would you be proud of having, and taking a dump in a solid gold toilet?
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Retired StaffTrees. Oh, you must mean animal species. Bonobos.
********. The mere existence of social species puts to rest the idea that selfish behavior is somehow natural or optimal. It isn't.
Empathy, compassion, love, etc. These emotions arise because it *is* beneficial to be selfless in natural situations, especially when it comes to your children or loved ones. And then there are even selfish motivations for self-sacrifice. Killing yourself to save someone saves you from having to deal with the pain of losing them. There are lots of reasons for this both selfish and otherwise.
And you don't survive inside of a civilization by raping, stealing, and pillaging. You want to be a selfish *****? Fine, you can go do it by yourself in the woods, but that kind of crap won't be tolerated within a society exactly because it's self-destructive.
I would just like to point out that trees have no consciousness, but will grow in front of, block other plants from getting light and water, and suck the nutrients from the soil around their massive root systems, killing nearby plants.
Sure families and groups of animals will exhibit this behavior you mentioned, especially inter-species, but as an ecosystem, it cannot survive without one species killing members of another for survival. Look at fish in the ocean. There is no way for a big fish to exist without killing a smaller fish.
Now that you point this out, I see what you mean about single species and families, but in nature as a whole, this unification does not exist.
The reason I say one does not survive outside of civilization by caring and helping is because one does survive in civilization with these traits to an extent. I think you flipped around my logic in a way I did not mean it.
I think an interesting point that arises from this discussion is the line at where people stop exhibiting communal behavior, and I am saying that they do, you are right in what you said, just to an extent. For some people it is only themselves. For many is is their family. For most it is their family, friends and anyone in need. I think that it would be neat to see this line expanded, but it is just not something that happens, or is likely to happen for thousands of years. This is a very fascinating concept, so thank you for triggering this thought with this little discussion.
I think my previous comments were at the extreme, so thank you for bringing this up, even though I do not fully agree with everything you said.
the question now becomes: Would you be proud of having, and taking a dump in a solid gold toilet?