I can't believe I'm going to say this, but Im inclined to agree with lpskie
Also, Can we please keep religion as far away from this as possible?
consciousness comes from the brain. no brain = no thoughts. when you die you stop thinking, and are unconscious. you cant argue against that. in case you want to bring up sleeping, i must tell you that that is unconscious, but you brain is still working. when you die it stops working.
Actually it has been proven. When we die, our brain dies. Our brain gives us conscience. Therefore, death = no conscience. That is hardly a religion.
If you have an alternate explanation, I'd be happy to hear it as long as it doesn't involve unproven supernatural explanations.
Before you were born you still existed, as a fetus. Before you were a fetus you still existed, as a sperm cell. Before you were a sperm cell you existed, as part of the fetus of your father. It goes back to before there was life on earth. Before there was life on earth, you have no idea what happened.
Before you were born you still existed, as a fetus. Before you were a fetus you still existed, as a sperm cell. Before you were a sperm cell you existed, as part of the fetus of your father. It goes back to before there was life on earth. Before there was life on earth, you have no idea what happened.
I know I didn't have a brain when I was a sperm cell. I also know I didn't have a brain before that. What's your point?
Edit: I just noticed I was in your signature. :biggrin.gif:
Because it is damaging to the cohesion of society.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you are a Battletech/Mechwarrior geek you may enjoy my Timberwolf/MADCAT model (the source of my avatar) (warning: image-heavy link target) I will often edit my posts after I have posted them in an attempt to improve their clarity (I value a few high quality posts over several low quality ones; the more lengthy the post, the more time it requires to edit) so you might want to wait for a while if this post is recent and refresh to see if anything has changed before replying to it.
A brain isn't required to have a thought process. your current thoughts are way too complex. Prokaryote bacteria only have a nucleus and they still have a pattern of thought, even though it's just to survive. Without having a brain, they eat, reproduce, and die. that's what their nucleus allows them to think. Sperm Cells also have a nucleus and a similar thought pattern. I'd like to see you explain how they know where to go to get to the egg cell and when if they can't think.
NeonVolcom wrote:Ize Likez Thee PIE!
Mod edit: Please stay on topic. This is a thread about how to dispose a corpse (never thought I'd be saying that....)
My point is you still had a thought process before you were born, just a different one then you have now.
did you ever take a science course, any at all? general science in 5th grade parhaps? no? mustve been absent that day. did you know that the carbon atoms that make up your body were at some point, a dinosaur or a plant? so what kind of thoughts did you have back then, huh?
was i a sperm or an egg? did i alternate between them both?
alright, ill stop now and address you seriously. your thoughts are the complex interactions of special chemicals in the brain. you should read up on how it works, its really quite fascinating. but that is what thought is, and conscious is another term for "thinking." so in the absence of those chemical interactions, you arent thinking. so i was never a sperm, nor an egg. i came from a sperm and an egg joining, and then growing for 9 months and being ejected from a womb. then i was a human, and able to grow into what i am. if i got incinerated and my ashes released into space, i wouldnt be conscious and think in a different manner. i would be dead.
A brain isn't required to have a thought process. your current thoughts are way too complex. Prokaryote bacteria only have a nucleus and they still have a pattern of thought, even though it's just to survive. Without having a brain, they eat, reproduce, and die. that's what their nucleus allows them to think. Sperm Cells also have a nucleus and a similar thought pattern. I'd like to see you explain how they know where to go to get to the egg cell and when if they can't think.
That would be instinct.
Thought requires consciousness, which requires a brain. I figured this was well-known.
if i got incinerated and my ashes released into space, i wouldnt be conscious and think in a different manner. i would be dead.
You seem to miss the point of the argument. Dying would be different than before birth. Death =/= before birth. You, sir/Mada'm, just helped my argument.
Nobody has full control or say as far as life/death goes.
We've had a thread like this before, but weirdly worded. xD
Natural causes, accidents, yeah... but we're talking about murder, a premeditated killing of a human being, not accidents. If you want to suicide, go ahead. But no one else can make the decision of ending your life for you- that's your decision.
Also, I'm assuming self-defense and other types of 'defense murders' are not being questioned, so...
From a science-y standpoint, it lowers the population. That's bad. Morals are relative, so meh. (I see morals from a partly science-based POV, so that would screw it up.)
You seem to miss the point of the argument. Dying would be different than before birth. Death =/= before birth. You, sir/Mada'm, just helped my argument.
But what's to differentiate Instinct between thought? The only solid difference is that Instinct is without prior knowledge.
This topic has been completely derailed @.@
It is a little derailed, but I reaaaally want to argue both your points. Oh well.
OT: Murder is bad. Mm'kay?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music."
You seem to miss the point of the argument. Dying would be different than before birth. Death =/= before birth. You, sir/Mada'm, just helped my argument.
But what's to differentiate Instinct between thought? The only solid difference is that Instinct is without prior knowledge.
This topic has been completely derailed @.@
after death is the same as before birth. all the atoms that make me now were elsewhere before i began using them. after i die theyll(eventually) be disperse and be reused for the same things. plants, rocks, air, animals, etc. the only difference is that this carbon will have been part of one specific human who played minecraft. still a carbon though, history doesnt matter. i didnt help your argument.
you instinctually suck from breasts for milk. later on, you think about what to eat. the way i see it, you can look at it from how many outcomes there are. if one action always causes a reaction, its instinct. hear a loud bang, duck. thinking has one action, and a choice between multiple outcomes that arent consistent. hear a series of vocal patterns>turn around, respond, duck, roll on the floor.
but example i attempt to fabricate aside, they are different.
I can't believe I'm going to say this, but Im inclined to agree with lpskie
Also, Can we please keep religion as far away from this as possible?
consciousness comes from the brain. no brain = no thoughts. when you die you stop thinking, and are unconscious. you cant argue against that. in case you want to bring up sleeping, i must tell you that that is unconscious, but you brain is still working. when you die it stops working.
why is murder wrong
your cutting a person's life short
nothing is written in stone
Before you were born you still existed, as a fetus. Before you were a fetus you still existed, as a sperm cell. Before you were a sperm cell you existed, as part of the fetus of your father. It goes back to before there was life on earth. Before there was life on earth, you have no idea what happened.
I know I didn't have a brain when I was a sperm cell. I also know I didn't have a brain before that. What's your point?
Edit: I just noticed I was in your signature. :biggrin.gif:
My point is you still had a thought process before you were born, just a different one then you have now.
How did I have a thought process without a brain?
I will often edit my posts after I have posted them in an attempt to improve their clarity (I value a few high quality posts over several low quality ones; the more lengthy the post, the more time it requires to edit) so you might want to wait for a while if this post is recent and refresh to see if anything has changed before replying to it.
A brain isn't required to have a thought process. your current thoughts are way too complex. Prokaryote bacteria only have a nucleus and they still have a pattern of thought, even though it's just to survive. Without having a brain, they eat, reproduce, and die. that's what their nucleus allows them to think. Sperm Cells also have a nucleus and a similar thought pattern. I'd like to see you explain how they know where to go to get to the egg cell and when if they can't think.
>Faceuniverse
NeonVolcom wrote:Ize Likez Thee PIE!
Mod edit: Please stay on topic. This is a thread about how to dispose a corpse (never thought I'd be saying that....)
did you ever take a science course, any at all? general science in 5th grade parhaps? no? mustve been absent that day. did you know that the carbon atoms that make up your body were at some point, a dinosaur or a plant? so what kind of thoughts did you have back then, huh?
was i a sperm or an egg? did i alternate between them both?
alright, ill stop now and address you seriously. your thoughts are the complex interactions of special chemicals in the brain. you should read up on how it works, its really quite fascinating. but that is what thought is, and conscious is another term for "thinking." so in the absence of those chemical interactions, you arent thinking. so i was never a sperm, nor an egg. i came from a sperm and an egg joining, and then growing for 9 months and being ejected from a womb. then i was a human, and able to grow into what i am. if i got incinerated and my ashes released into space, i wouldnt be conscious and think in a different manner. i would be dead.
That would be instinct.
Thought requires consciousness, which requires a brain. I figured this was well-known.
that i came from dirt, i eat, and will be dirt again at some point?
You seem to miss the point of the argument. Dying would be different than before birth. Death =/= before birth. You, sir/Mada'm, just helped my argument.
But what's to differentiate Instinct between thought? The only solid difference is that Instinct is without prior knowledge.
This topic has been completely derailed @.@
We've had a thread like this before, but weirdly worded. xD
Natural causes, accidents, yeah... but we're talking about murder, a premeditated killing of a human being, not accidents. If you want to suicide, go ahead. But no one else can make the decision of ending your life for you- that's your decision.
Also, I'm assuming self-defense and other types of 'defense murders' are not being questioned, so...
From a science-y standpoint, it lowers the population. That's bad. Morals are relative, so meh. (I see morals from a partly science-based POV, so that would screw it up.)
It is a little derailed, but I reaaaally want to argue both your points. Oh well.
OT: Murder is bad. Mm'kay?
after death is the same as before birth. all the atoms that make me now were elsewhere before i began using them. after i die theyll(eventually) be disperse and be reused for the same things. plants, rocks, air, animals, etc. the only difference is that this carbon will have been part of one specific human who played minecraft. still a carbon though, history doesnt matter. i didnt help your argument.
you instinctually suck from breasts for milk. later on, you think about what to eat. the way i see it, you can look at it from how many outcomes there are. if one action always causes a reaction, its instinct. hear a loud bang, duck. thinking has one action, and a choice between multiple outcomes that arent consistent. hear a series of vocal patterns>turn around, respond, duck, roll on the floor.
but example i attempt to fabricate aside, they are different.