I have never once had a memory that was influenced, or even fully created, from a dream.
I'm definitely not buying this. There's no way you could possibly know this, since an influenced memory would be indistinguishable from an uninfluenced one. Like I mentioned, dreams can be completely mundane, the influence could be as small as creating a memory of eating a normal breakfast.
Just like the paranormal crowd you're claiming infallibility of the mind and that's ********.
And I know they were not dreams.
I believe you, dreams aren't the only explanation. They are just *an* explanation.
I don't agree...
I'm not claiming the mind is infallible... I'm simply saying I know what is real and what is a 'dream'. You dream when you're asleep. It is not normal to dream when you're awake unless you have narcolepsy.
I can easily distinguish from my most vivid dreams, and reality. I have done so in the past, for extremely realistic dreams. I even once (don't remember what happened) but one day all day long I kept having a feeling that I'd done something that I knew I hadn't really done, because the dream was so real. But this did not mean my memories were affected by that. When I was fully awake, I knew that it was just a dream.
I don't have times where my dreams intermix with my reality. This is not because the mind is infallible, this is simply just the nature of how brains work...
To say that dreams can intermix with our reality at any moment is... just as unexplainable as the events themselves. Our brains don't work like that. We do not wane in and out of consciousness when fully awake.
Although, if you'd like, since you're basically leaning on the side of subjectivism on this argument... I could easily agree with you to the point in which nothing is 'real' anymore.
Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi. Between Zhuangzi and a butterfly there must be some distinction! This is called the Transformation of Things.
- (2, tr. Burton Watson 1968:49) Translation of writings from 'Zhuangzi' an ancient Chinese philosopher, from which the philosophy of Taoism was derived.
But rather than tangent... simply enough I can not explain the events you saw. Perhaps yours were dreams in which you were not aware.... But I can definitely say that it doesn't happen to most people, as that is simply just not how brains work.
What's everybody's stance on multiple people seeing something unexplainable? For example, there was this friend's party I was at (when I was a child, of course, but everybody there acknowledges what happened) where there was clearly a humanoid shadow (maybe dwarf size) that ran into another room. We all saw it and were freaked at first, but went into the area where it went, the bathroom, and looked in there and there was no one and nothing. While shadows are always debatable (and cliche), there was nothing moving to cause the shadow to appear, nor was there anything outside the house that could have, for some reason, been moving to cause this. This house definitely has a malevolent spirit if it has one.
My family has had many experiences where more than 3 people even up to the whole family has all experienced something strange, at the same time, in the same room. I don't care for debating the paranormal because no matter what your argument is, you'll be called a liar or a hallucinating nutjob. I could say that I don't hallucinate, but I'd be called a liar. I could say I'm not a liar, but it would be explained as a hallucination. It's a circle that will never end.
And as far as dreams go, that's also a silly argument. I had a dream the other day that seemed like it lasted for hours where I was playing CoD with Donald Trump. I know it wasn't real, not because Donald Trump was there, but because when it was over, I was in bed. I don't confuse dreams because that's how they usually end.
I have experiences or been told experiences about my family that happened with mulitple people in the room. None of them would convince you otherwise, because you simply refuse to believe. Why you refuse to believe, I believe, is because you've never experienced it. I'm not talking about your childhood experiences, because that's not an accurate example. I still have things happen to me, and I'm perfectly sane. My family has no history of mental disorders. I'm not trying to change your stance on the subject, I'm simply trying to defend myself from what seems to be slight hostility.
And as far as dreams go, that's also a silly argument. I had a dream the other day that seemed like it lasted for hours where I was playing CoD with Donald Trump. I know it wasn't real, not because Donald Trump was there, but because when it was over, I was in bed. I don't confuse dreams because that's how they usually end.
Just saying but you see dreams every night and they WILL have effect on your memories. We have also false memories. For example I remember things that never even happened. Even thought I can clearly "remember" those events.
You can't say you won't confuse dreams because if you do you won't know it.
It's funny how the people whom "paranormal" things happen to are the ones that believe it is real.
The human brain is tricky and is known to provide illisions that can be hard to decipher from reality.
It IS easy to say that without debunking some of the more hard to explain cases, isn't it?
And of course if you have paranormal things happen to you you'll be likely to believe it, silly. But I have a feeling you meant that it always keeps happening, to which I'll respond by saying that it's general agreed upon that "haunted" places (or people) will usually have more activity.
It's funny how the people whom "paranormal" things happen to are the ones that believe it is real.
The human brain is tricky and is known to provide illisions that can be hard to decipher from reality.
It IS easy to say that without debunking some of the more hard to explain cases, isn't it?
And of course if you have paranormal things happen to you you'll be likely to believe it, silly. But I have a feeling you meant that it always keeps happening, to which I'll respond by saying that it's general agreed upon that "haunted" places (or people) will usually have more activity.
Many can't be explained because it's impossible to get accurate information from our minds on such events. The mind has been proven to see things that don't exist and it tries to make sense of things subconsciously that we may not immedietely understand.
That's why if a person thinks they see or feel something, they actually might, but that doesn't mean it exists.
It's funny how the people whom "paranormal" things happen to are the ones that believe it is real.
The human brain is tricky and is known to provide illisions that can be hard to decipher from reality.
It IS easy to say that without debunking some of the more hard to explain cases, isn't it?
And of course if you have paranormal things happen to you you'll be likely to believe it, silly. But I have a feeling you meant that it always keeps happening, to which I'll respond by saying that it's general agreed upon that "haunted" places (or people) will usually have more activity.
Many can't be explained because it's impossible to get accurate information from our minds on such events. The mind has been proven to see things that don't exist and it tries to make sense of things subconsciously that we may not immedietely understand.
That's why if a person thinks they see or feel something, they actually might, but that doesn't mean it exists.
Why do people always assume it's only one person feeling or hearing something? Many people including me have experienced whole groups vexed by a spirit.
I don't remember things that never happened. Maybe I don't know what you're talking about, because I've never had it happen. What I experience tends to be real and actually happening.
Also, would the people talking about the proof that the mind can create powerful illusions mind giving some links? Not trying to say it's fake, but I'd like to read up a little on it so I can actually have a stance and not be entirely ignorant on the subject.
I believe, because the universe is a huge and powerful place. There is many things that we still cannot explain because modern science can't figure it out.
And I've had experiences. Both by sight, sound, and playing with Ouija boards.
But I think the scariest one I've had was a few years back, about 3 or so. I was sitting in bed at 11 at night, and I was the only one awake. I had 2 cats and a dog at the time, and all 3 were laying on my bed. My room was the only one lit up in the house. As I was drawing, everything was silent. Then I started to hear heavy creaks in the kitchen. Like footsteps. Now, instinct told me it was my mom getting up for a late night snack. However, I didn't hear her get up, move around, groan or anything. Her door wasn't open either. Also, no lights were on. So my second thought that it was a burglar, but I would've heard the windows or doors open as well. So I had no idea what it was. I listen to it for a full 5 minutes before it stopped completely. Now I was curious. I got up and walked halfway across the room, when I noticed something bright green fly by my doorway(my door was ajar) and into the basement. No, it wasn't a firefly. Because it moved too fast to be one, and it was dead winter when this happened.
Scared the crap out of me. And no, it wasn't a dream. I was wide awake when this all happened.
Why do people always assume it's only one person feeling or hearing something? Many people including me have experienced whole groups vexed by a spirit.
And yet when it comes to actually getting verifiable evidence that can't be attributed to psychology or confirmation bias, we get nothing. There's even $1 million to anyone who can prove it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
The more extraordinary the claim, the more extraordinary the evidence for it must be. Of course that's a clichéd quote, but it does make sense. To a more reasonable degree, the evidence must be adequate to support the claim. Hundreds of thousands of people claiming to have seen this stuff happen, and yet despite having access to all of modern technology, the existence of ghosts/angels/demons or whatever still remains cited mostly by eyewitness accounts and very blurry pictures, not hard proof. A ghost (assuming they even exist at all) that is 200+ years old probably has no idea what a camera is, and hiding them around a claimed to be haunted castle to record for a month might be enough to capture something good.
In any case, I've heard quite a few fictional stories where I wonder, "How the heck did the author come up with that story?" Who's to say the same can't be done with stories of the paranormal? I've seen tons of books full of short paranormal stories in the fiction sections of bookstores.
/hypocritical post considering what I said in the OP. Aw what the heck, debating is fun!
As I said, there's no way me or any other believer can convince someone like Yourself of it simply because they haven't had something happen real happen to them. You can go your whole life without experiencing any of the things that I have. It doesn't make it any less real. And it doesn't matter to me whether you do or not, because I know that it's happening. And someone on the internet telling me I'm not seeing or hearing it doesn't make it any less there.
Well I never said that what you saw wasn't real... I'm just disagreeing with the idea that this stuff can't be easily proven if it really exists. Modern technology, everywhere, fully available, and all we get for it are crappy TV shows that never get any good evidence, like ghost hunters.
By good evidence, I mean that the subject in question is put into a relatively controlled experiment. Account for as many variables and possible, and make the experiment as controlled at possible. Having people running all over the place introduces an element of chaos that completely destroys the purpose of what an experiment is supposed to be.
If these ghost-hunter types really want to prove something and actually convince people, they've gotta stop taking in groups of a dozen people into haunted castles at night shouting at the top of their lungs "Hey ghosts! Can you show yourselves plz! K thx bai!" and romping throughout the place noisily with flashlights and fumbling around in the dark jumping at their own shadows. If they want to scientifically prove something, they've got to stealthfully hide cameras and such throughout given haunted castle, leave the premises, keep all people out of the place, and let those things record for a month in HD quality picture and sound.
I was taught the scientific method in elementary school along with every other kid. They should know it too if they had any schooling at all.
Oh, in that case, I have no argument for you. I hate those shows, they give believers a bad name. Especially when it comes out that they faked it to get ratings.
There's no way anyone can be convinced unless it happens to them. It can't be reproduced at the snap of a finger. Haven't you even read what people had to say? I hate to say it, but most arguers are biased towards not believing it. I'm personally only trying to defend my personal believe that I find to be true every day. I don't appreciate you telling me to shut up.
There's no way anyone can be convinced unless it happens to them. It can't be reproduced at the snap of a finger. Haven't you even read what people had to say? I hate to say it, but most arguers are biased towards not believing it. I'm personally only trying to defend my personal believe that I find to be true every day. I don't appreciate you telling me to shut up.
did you watch the parts of the video i posted? it was partially aimed at you.
I don't agree...
I'm not claiming the mind is infallible... I'm simply saying I know what is real and what is a 'dream'. You dream when you're asleep. It is not normal to dream when you're awake unless you have narcolepsy.
I can easily distinguish from my most vivid dreams, and reality. I have done so in the past, for extremely realistic dreams. I even once (don't remember what happened) but one day all day long I kept having a feeling that I'd done something that I knew I hadn't really done, because the dream was so real. But this did not mean my memories were affected by that. When I was fully awake, I knew that it was just a dream.
I don't have times where my dreams intermix with my reality. This is not because the mind is infallible, this is simply just the nature of how brains work...
To say that dreams can intermix with our reality at any moment is... just as unexplainable as the events themselves. Our brains don't work like that. We do not wane in and out of consciousness when fully awake.
Although, if you'd like, since you're basically leaning on the side of subjectivism on this argument... I could easily agree with you to the point in which nothing is 'real' anymore.
- (2, tr. Burton Watson 1968:49) Translation of writings from 'Zhuangzi' an ancient Chinese philosopher, from which the philosophy of Taoism was derived.
But rather than tangent... simply enough I can not explain the events you saw. Perhaps yours were dreams in which you were not aware.... But I can definitely say that it doesn't happen to most people, as that is simply just not how brains work.
And as far as dreams go, that's also a silly argument. I had a dream the other day that seemed like it lasted for hours where I was playing CoD with Donald Trump. I know it wasn't real, not because Donald Trump was there, but because when it was over, I was in bed. I don't confuse dreams because that's how they usually end.
I have experiences or been told experiences about my family that happened with mulitple people in the room. None of them would convince you otherwise, because you simply refuse to believe. Why you refuse to believe, I believe, is because you've never experienced it. I'm not talking about your childhood experiences, because that's not an accurate example. I still have things happen to me, and I'm perfectly sane. My family has no history of mental disorders. I'm not trying to change your stance on the subject, I'm simply trying to defend myself from what seems to be slight hostility.
My old account died. It shall be remembered!
Just saying but you see dreams every night and they WILL have effect on your memories. We have also false memories. For example I remember things that never even happened. Even thought I can clearly "remember" those events.
You can't say you won't confuse dreams because if you do you won't know it.
The human brain is tricky and is known to provide illisions that can be hard to decipher from reality.
It IS easy to say that without debunking some of the more hard to explain cases, isn't it?
And of course if you have paranormal things happen to you you'll be likely to believe it, silly. But I have a feeling you meant that it always keeps happening, to which I'll respond by saying that it's general agreed upon that "haunted" places (or people) will usually have more activity.
Many can't be explained because it's impossible to get accurate information from our minds on such events. The mind has been proven to see things that don't exist and it tries to make sense of things subconsciously that we may not immedietely understand.
That's why if a person thinks they see or feel something, they actually might, but that doesn't mean it exists.
Why do people always assume it's only one person feeling or hearing something? Many people including me have experienced whole groups vexed by a spirit.
Also, would the people talking about the proof that the mind can create powerful illusions mind giving some links? Not trying to say it's fake, but I'd like to read up a little on it so I can actually have a stance and not be entirely ignorant on the subject.
My old account died. It shall be remembered!
And I've had experiences. Both by sight, sound, and playing with Ouija boards.
But I think the scariest one I've had was a few years back, about 3 or so. I was sitting in bed at 11 at night, and I was the only one awake. I had 2 cats and a dog at the time, and all 3 were laying on my bed. My room was the only one lit up in the house. As I was drawing, everything was silent. Then I started to hear heavy creaks in the kitchen. Like footsteps. Now, instinct told me it was my mom getting up for a late night snack. However, I didn't hear her get up, move around, groan or anything. Her door wasn't open either. Also, no lights were on. So my second thought that it was a burglar, but I would've heard the windows or doors open as well. So I had no idea what it was. I listen to it for a full 5 minutes before it stopped completely. Now I was curious. I got up and walked halfway across the room, when I noticed something bright green fly by my doorway(my door was ajar) and into the basement. No, it wasn't a firefly. Because it moved too fast to be one, and it was dead winter when this happened.
Scared the crap out of me. And no, it wasn't a dream. I was wide awake when this all happened.
And yet when it comes to actually getting verifiable evidence that can't be attributed to psychology or confirmation bias, we get nothing. There's even $1 million to anyone who can prove it.
My old account died. It shall be remembered!
In any case, I've heard quite a few fictional stories where I wonder, "How the heck did the author come up with that story?" Who's to say the same can't be done with stories of the paranormal? I've seen tons of books full of short paranormal stories in the fiction sections of bookstores.
/hypocritical post considering what I said in the OP. Aw what the heck, debating is fun!
My old account died. It shall be remembered!
Went on a couple of "haunted" tours and stayed the night in a "haunted" hotel.
The most abnormal thing that happened was that I had to pee really bad at 4 in the morning.
By good evidence, I mean that the subject in question is put into a relatively controlled experiment. Account for as many variables and possible, and make the experiment as controlled at possible. Having people running all over the place introduces an element of chaos that completely destroys the purpose of what an experiment is supposed to be.
If these ghost-hunter types really want to prove something and actually convince people, they've gotta stop taking in groups of a dozen people into haunted castles at night shouting at the top of their lungs "Hey ghosts! Can you show yourselves plz! K thx bai!" and romping throughout the place noisily with flashlights and fumbling around in the dark jumping at their own shadows. If they want to scientifically prove something, they've got to stealthfully hide cameras and such throughout given haunted castle, leave the premises, keep all people out of the place, and let those things record for a month in HD quality picture and sound.
I was taught the scientific method in elementary school along with every other kid. They should know it too if they had any schooling at all.
My old account died. It shall be remembered!
My old account died. It shall be remembered!
did you watch the parts of the video i posted? it was partially aimed at you.