America isn't a completely democratic country. It's a democratic republic. A country as large as ours to be a democracy would simply be impossible. When it comes to military actions (e.g. bombings) American civilians have no say in what happens. It's not like we vote for every decision that's made in the country. We vote for people who make those decisions. Either that or those elected officials hire someone to do that. So yes, we're responsible for voting for people who will do the right thing. Which is why it's important for Americans to be involved in the voting process.
You could at least stop voting for politicians who after they're elected go on to support murderers.
Quote from mattbob »
And you're still missing my whole point-which is that pointing out a country's faults on a day of tragedy is completely rude and unnecessary. Every ****ing thread that has a mention of America in it has someone like you who has to point out something bad about it.
For the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, every day is a day of tragedy.
Quote from mattbob »
So basically, I'm tired of my country being bashed constantly when it's not even welcomed into the conversation. I'm going to stop posting here, because I've already stated what I think clearly, and you probably won't understand/accept what I'm saying anyway.
I do understand what you're saying, you're saying America deserves a special day to remember the deaths of 3000 people, what I'm saying is "Oh, you think you're so special? So special you need an official day to honor an event that, compared to the death and destruction your nation caused in other countries, is insignificant? Well, I think that's mighty arrogant of you."
Quote from MaliciousH »
And eh, America bashing is always in.
That's because in America you can criticize your country for war crimes, but in third world countries America blows up your house and kills your family.
Also, how did this discussion go from being about a holiday to a discussion about America?
EDIT: After reading through the thread, I now feel pissed off that every single anti-American in here is generalizing us with fully supporting America.
Its like saying every person in Germany fully supported Hitler, 100% of them.
Its like saying every person in Germany fully supported Hitler, 100% of them.
Going by this thread, I'm sure that's exactly what Cetus does believe.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I thought you'd contracted a disease that gave you the same metabolism as an oak tree - Maggarg II
It heals all of your goddamn hearts! - kittensamurai
And you're still missing my whole point-which is that pointing out a country's faults on a day of tragedy is completely rude and unnecessary. Every ****ing thread that has a mention of America in it has someone like you who has to point out something bad about it.
For the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, every day is a day of tragedy.
This is the most disgusting thing I have seen in weeks. So because someone else is in pain somewhere, that means that no one else has the right to grieve or remember past tragedies? You goddamn ****ing pig.
You're probably right. Japan has no right to commemorate the Nagasaki/Hiroshima bombings, because they attacked Pearl harbor first. It's disrespectful and they should be ashamed and tear down all their monuments and stop any remembrance of those who died. No? You're a ****ing hypocrite if you disagree.
I'm just gonna stop right there because this is probably already beyond the pale.
Your attitude is goddamn sickening.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I thought you'd contracted a disease that gave you the same metabolism as an oak tree - Maggarg II
It heals all of your goddamn hearts! - kittensamurai
This is the most disgusting thing I have seen in weeks. So because someone else is in pain somewhere, that means that no one else has the right to grieve or remember past tragedies? You goddamn ****ing pig.
You're probably right. Japan has no right to commemorate the Nagasaki/Hiroshima bombings, because they attacked Pearl harbor first. It's disrespectful and they should be ashamed and tear down all their monuments and stop any remembrance of those who died. No? You're a ****ing hypocrite if you disagree.
I'm just gonna stop right there because this is probably already beyond the pale.
Your attitude is goddamn sickening.
Dispite the amount of rage in this post, I have to agree with Krelos. You are one heartless *******.
The problem with 9/11 is how over-glorified it is. Remember how the people who died on the planes were instantly 'heroes'? How about all those dramatized documentaries about the people on the flight destined for the White House? Those people were heroes perhaps, but the way the media treats them is sickening.
The point is we treat 9/11 as if it's the worst thing that has ever happened and people from other countries (and some in our own Country) cannot see why we are doing this, especially in light of things like how people are still waiting to for help to rebuild 5 years after Katrina.
No one is saying it's bad to mourn for 9/11 (at least I hope no one is saying that) but they are saying "Look, that was 10 years ago, it's time to let go a little".
And please don't get me wrong, I'm not making this post to be cold-hearted or edgy, I just really am confused by how we in the US still act as if this was something that recently happened.
This is the most disgusting thing I have seen in weeks. So because someone else is in pain somewhere, that means that no one else has the right to grieve or remember past tragedies? You goddamn ****ing pig.
You misunderstand, I am saying that honoring a tragedy while doing nothing to prevent it from happening again is shameful. The 9/11 attacks were a direct consequence of America's meddling in the middle east for decades, to mourn the consequences of your actions while doing nothing to alleviate the cause is a poor way to remember those who died.
Those who lost relatives or friends or were otherwise hurt by the event have every right to mourn.
Those who didn't should honor their deaths in a different way, by opposing the policies that caused the tragedy in the first place. I am saying that the victims of 9/11 died for America's sins, those who lost something in the event should grieve to their hearts desire, but those who did not should struggle against the wrongdoings that triggered the attack in the first place. That, in my opinion, is the best way you can honor the memories of the fallen, by fighting against what led to their deaths in the first place.
Quote from Krelos »
You're probably right. Japan has no right to commemorate the Nagasaki/Hiroshima bombings
Japan honored the dead of Nagasaki and Hiroshima by banning wars of aggression, something no other country has done. Though they have yet to atone for their crimes against the Chinese, Koreans, and others who were the victims of terrible war crimes committed by Japanese soldiers.
The problem with 9/11 is how over-glorified it is. Remember how the people who died on the planes were instantly 'heroes'? How about all those dramatized documentaries about the people on the flight destined for the White House? Those people were heroes perhaps, but the way the media treats them is sickening.
The point is we treat 9/11 as if it's the worst thing that has ever happened and people from other countries (and some in our own Country) cannot see why we are doing this, especially in light of things like how people are still waiting to for help to rebuild 5 years after Katrina.
No one is saying it's bad to mourn for 9/11 (at least I hope no one is saying that) but they are saying "Look, that was 10 years ago, it's time to let go a little".
And please don't get me wrong, I'm not making this post to be cold-hearted or edgy, I just really am confused by how we in the US still act as if this was something that recently happened.
This is exactly what I was trying to say in the first place. It was bad, but it's time for people who weren't directly involved (and maybe even them) to try to move on.
Also, a few of you probably think that I thought the exact opposite-which isn't true. All I was saying before was that America's faults and such have been pointed out so many times, it's getting very annoying. And it's also not that appropriate to talk about it here anyway.
Just incase people are too stupid to figure this out.
There is a difference between targetting civilians in a civilian building, and targetting a governmental organization in a civilian building.
The reason civilian casualty rates have always been horrific the the more recent wars is because people hide the weapons the the housess, they have military bases inside of civilian communities, and overall shield their persons and equipment with the lives and bodies of innocent men, women, and children.
We don't do that, at least not as much.
If the plane that hit the pentagon wasn't a plane, and was instead a missile, I would completely understand *although still be mad* that attack. However the 4 planes crashing, and the 2 buildings crumbling that were entirely civilian based, with no attempt to harm the American Governmental organization makes those actions cruel and outright wrong, and in no way a proper punishment, *if there should even be one* for the American people.
If the enemy were to stop hiding their weapons in mosques, or in other non-governmental places, I can assure you civilian loss would be much much lower. Thus making the liveloss that has happened their fault, not ours.
"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic." - Stalin
That's a misquotation, the person who actually said that was Erich Maria Remarque
Quote from abbyratsolee »
Just incase people are too stupid to figure this out.
There is a difference between targetting civilians in a civilian building, and targetting a governmental organization in a civilian building.
The reason civilian casualty rates have always been horrific the the more recent wars is because people hide the weapons the the housess, they have military bases inside of civilian communities, and overall shield their persons and equipment with the lives and bodies of innocent men, women, and children.
We don't do that, at least not as much.
If the plane that hit the pentagon wasn't a plane, and was instead a missile, I would completely understand *although still be mad* that attack. However the 4 planes crashing, and the 2 buildings crumbling that were entirely civilian based, with no attempt to harm the American Governmental organization makes those actions cruel and outright wrong, and in no way a proper punishment, *if there should even be one* for the American people.
If the enemy were to stop hiding their weapons in mosques, or in other non-governmental places, I can assure you civilian loss would be much much lower. Thus making the liveloss that has happened their fault, not ours.
"Oh no! They have hostages!" "No worry, we're just gonna kill em all."
Nice job blaming the victims.
I still can't tell if I'm a horrible person or not, because when I think of 9/11, I don't get very emotional. In fact, I don't even care at all. The only emotion I have is anger towards my own country because they seem to have forgotten the past. Think of all the wars in the past. How many countless people have DIED in the past, compared to a measly few thousand in ONE terrorist attack. We shouldn't be crying over 9/11 this goddamn much. We should be ****ing mad over the goddamn holocaust and racism and all that other ****. **** the news.
I still can't tell if I'm a horrible person or not, because when I think of 9/11, I don't get very emotional. In fact, I don't even care at all. The only emotion I have is anger towards my own country because they seem to have forgotten the past. Think of all the wars in the past. How many countless people have DIED in the past, compared to a measly few thousand in ONE terrorist attack. We shouldn't be crying over 9/11 this goddamn much. We should be ****ing mad over the goddamn holocaust and racism and all that other ****. **** the news.
This is exactly what I think. The Soviet Union lost 25 million men, women, and children in WWII, for the purpose of stopping the spread of fascism to the world. Had it not been for them, you're be living in an oppressive world under the Nazi party, or, if you aren't a white Christian, not living at all. On average, about FIVE TIMES more Soviet people died EVERY DAY at the hands of Germans than died on 9/11. Where is their day of immense grieving and commemoration?
I still can't tell if I'm a horrible person or not, because when I think of 9/11, I don't get very emotional. In fact, I don't even care at all. The only emotion I have is anger towards my own country because they seem to have forgotten the past. Think of all the wars in the past. How many countless people have DIED in the past, compared to a measly few thousand in ONE terrorist attack. We shouldn't be crying over 9/11 this goddamn much. We should be ****ing mad over the goddamn holocaust and racism and all that other ****. **** the news.
The reason people don't feel that way, I believe, is because those things happened quite a long time when you think about how old the current generation is. There's only gonna be a certain amount of people left who actually remember certain things in the past, and will all eventually pass away eventually.
Anyway, what I'm saying is that 9/11 is made to be such a big deal is because it's much more recent than those events. The Holocaust, racism in America, Pearl Harbor-they're all basically things we only LEARN about. Most people alive today were never there when they happened.
I guess the bottom line here is that we actually experienced the tragedy, instead of just learning/hearing that it happened before most of us were born. Maybe I'm way off, but that's just how I'm looking at it.
You could at least stop voting for politicians who after they're elected go on to support murderers.
For the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, every day is a day of tragedy.
I do understand what you're saying, you're saying America deserves a special day to remember the deaths of 3000 people, what I'm saying is "Oh, you think you're so special? So special you need an official day to honor an event that, compared to the death and destruction your nation caused in other countries, is insignificant? Well, I think that's mighty arrogant of you."
That's because in America you can criticize your country for war crimes, but in third world countries America blows up your house and kills your family.
Not for the last 30 or so years.
Also, how did this discussion go from being about a holiday to a discussion about America?
EDIT: After reading through the thread, I now feel pissed off that every single anti-American in here is generalizing us with fully supporting America.
Its like saying every person in Germany fully supported Hitler, 100% of them.
MineScience - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=166560
Dragonator - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=141803
Sand Skiffs - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=233346
Going by this thread, I'm sure that's exactly what Cetus does believe.
It heals all of your goddamn hearts! - kittensamurai
This is the most disgusting thing I have seen in weeks. So because someone else is in pain somewhere, that means that no one else has the right to grieve or remember past tragedies? You goddamn ****ing pig.
You're probably right. Japan has no right to commemorate the Nagasaki/Hiroshima bombings, because they attacked Pearl harbor first. It's disrespectful and they should be ashamed and tear down all their monuments and stop any remembrance of those who died. No? You're a ****ing hypocrite if you disagree.
I'm just gonna stop right there because this is probably already beyond the pale.
Your attitude is goddamn sickening.
It heals all of your goddamn hearts! - kittensamurai
Dispite the amount of rage in this post, I have to agree with Krelos. You are one heartless *******.
MineScience - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=166560
Dragonator - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=141803
Sand Skiffs - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=233346
The point is we treat 9/11 as if it's the worst thing that has ever happened and people from other countries (and some in our own Country) cannot see why we are doing this, especially in light of things like how people are still waiting to for help to rebuild 5 years after Katrina.
No one is saying it's bad to mourn for 9/11 (at least I hope no one is saying that) but they are saying "Look, that was 10 years ago, it's time to let go a little".
And please don't get me wrong, I'm not making this post to be cold-hearted or edgy, I just really am confused by how we in the US still act as if this was something that recently happened.
Those who did not support Hitler let him go about murdering people largely unopposed.
You misunderstand, I am saying that honoring a tragedy while doing nothing to prevent it from happening again is shameful. The 9/11 attacks were a direct consequence of America's meddling in the middle east for decades, to mourn the consequences of your actions while doing nothing to alleviate the cause is a poor way to remember those who died.
Those who lost relatives or friends or were otherwise hurt by the event have every right to mourn.
Those who didn't should honor their deaths in a different way, by opposing the policies that caused the tragedy in the first place. I am saying that the victims of 9/11 died for America's sins, those who lost something in the event should grieve to their hearts desire, but those who did not should struggle against the wrongdoings that triggered the attack in the first place. That, in my opinion, is the best way you can honor the memories of the fallen, by fighting against what led to their deaths in the first place.
Japan honored the dead of Nagasaki and Hiroshima by banning wars of aggression, something no other country has done. Though they have yet to atone for their crimes against the Chinese, Koreans, and others who were the victims of terrible war crimes committed by Japanese soldiers.
This is exactly what I was trying to say in the first place. It was bad, but it's time for people who weren't directly involved (and maybe even them) to try to move on.
Also, a few of you probably think that I thought the exact opposite-which isn't true. All I was saying before was that America's faults and such have been pointed out so many times, it's getting very annoying. And it's also not that appropriate to talk about it here anyway.
Words of wisdom.
ghetto puppiez uncensored foo
HAHAHA OH **** WRONG TOPIC
oh well happy 9/11
There is a difference between targetting civilians in a civilian building, and targetting a governmental organization in a civilian building.
The reason civilian casualty rates have always been horrific the the more recent wars is because people hide the weapons the the housess, they have military bases inside of civilian communities, and overall shield their persons and equipment with the lives and bodies of innocent men, women, and children.
We don't do that, at least not as much.
If the plane that hit the pentagon wasn't a plane, and was instead a missile, I would completely understand *although still be mad* that attack. However the 4 planes crashing, and the 2 buildings crumbling that were entirely civilian based, with no attempt to harm the American Governmental organization makes those actions cruel and outright wrong, and in no way a proper punishment, *if there should even be one* for the American people.
If the enemy were to stop hiding their weapons in mosques, or in other non-governmental places, I can assure you civilian loss would be much much lower. Thus making the liveloss that has happened their fault, not ours.
That's a misquotation, the person who actually said that was Erich Maria Remarque
"Oh no! They have hostages!" "No worry, we're just gonna kill em all."
Nice job blaming the victims.
You're not
we just don't care anymore
This is exactly what I think. The Soviet Union lost 25 million men, women, and children in WWII, for the purpose of stopping the spread of fascism to the world. Had it not been for them, you're be living in an oppressive world under the Nazi party, or, if you aren't a white Christian, not living at all. On average, about FIVE TIMES more Soviet people died EVERY DAY at the hands of Germans than died on 9/11. Where is their day of immense grieving and commemoration?
The reason people don't feel that way, I believe, is because those things happened quite a long time when you think about how old the current generation is. There's only gonna be a certain amount of people left who actually remember certain things in the past, and will all eventually pass away eventually.
Anyway, what I'm saying is that 9/11 is made to be such a big deal is because it's much more recent than those events. The Holocaust, racism in America, Pearl Harbor-they're all basically things we only LEARN about. Most people alive today were never there when they happened.
I guess the bottom line here is that we actually experienced the tragedy, instead of just learning/hearing that it happened before most of us were born. Maybe I'm way off, but that's just how I'm looking at it.
You might as well send a giant cake to the terrorists with the message "PLEASE BOMB US WHERE WE ONCE HAD THE TWIN TOWERS".
the government did it
News is the scum of the Earth.
MineScience - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=166560
Dragonator - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=141803
Sand Skiffs - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=233346