I recently had a thought on the subject of time and how it works so I'll say it. Every action certainly must be predetermined, as we cannot change the future if we were to see it, but every action we take changes it as a simple picking up of a pencil changes the future, also back to the subject of seeing the future. . . Could we really change it? If we were to see into the future we should've seen the results of our actions but are actions already determined in a sense so it would make sense if every action taken leads to the point of which we saw in the future, but if the action in the end was different how did we reach that point?
Also actions which you take are they already known or entirely random? But how do they affect which is seen in the future? Does that mean they are already known? Now, what if that person did something not seen in the future? What would happen or would it be impossible in a predetermined universe.. Or do we live in a multiple-outcome universe where each action branches off into infinite possibilities?
Also, what if someone went into the past, now a grandfather paradox could happen or something rather unexpected.
As the person already went into the past and made his edit it would immidiately effect the present but, it would have to remain the same to happen so did the action ever take place? Hell, the person could've removed where he departed but if he edited it should never of happened but it does happen..
I need to sleep instead of pouring out random thoughts.
I find it best NOT to think about these things, for one because the concept of time is far too abstract for me to fully understand.
We'll never know if actions are pre-determined or if we have free-will, that would require exiting our current time-stream-deal and observing for a long period of time. Or something.
The only reason I am typing this is because I want to. i just decided not to capitalize the first word in this sentence. By doing so, I changed the future. I, by myself, changed the future.
Whether or not actions are based upon causality or not is not a quality of time.
We can never see the future. The only time we can ever observe is the present. The present differs from object to object depending on where it's been and how fast it's been going, but we'll still only ever see its present.
A good way of fixing paradoxes due to time travel is to use split timelines. Whenever something is changed in history, it splits the timeline in two: One timeline where that change happened and one where it didn't. Both exist concurrently but separately.
Quote from Ladon »
The only reason I am typing this is because I want to. i just decided not to capitalize the first word in this sentence. By doing so, I changed the future. I, by myself, changed the future.
Can you really say that? Or was your desire to not capitalize the sentence a result of your wanting to change the future, the desire for which was a result of you reading this post, etc, etc, etc.
You had reasons for doing it, and those reasons had reason to exist. Welcome to causality.
I, am myself. From the beginning of time, I was going to be myself. I am doing exactly as I feel. The only way to do something is through will, and so I never make decisions, I just act out what my brain feels like. Even if it is predetermined, it will not matter. This feels real enough to be free will, so why not just leave it as that?
Because it's philosophy. You're not allowed to let anything be in Philosophy. You have to question everything, especially if none of the arguments can be proven.
Time is akin to movement- it is relative to comparisons. When there are more than one event, we can say, "these events are happening at the same time." When there is one event, we cannot judge if it is happening or not (this is assuming there is not even a human observing it). This is the same for movement- if we have two or more visible objects we can say "this is moving x amount every y so it has a speed of z" but if we have one object this calculation is impossible.
Dysgalt, your the most wrong person that got wrong in the first sentences on this forum.
There is no future yet.
Or more likely, there is an infinite amount of futures depending on what you do every little nanosecond of your life.
Think about quarks, atoms, molecules, matter, items and larger scale balls of matter.
Then transform that into time.
It must be more then that, but we don't live in that reality to change it.
We are only affected by it.
We affect matter, that affects time.
Think about everything like that.
If something wouldn't affect at least 1 thing, we couldn't ever find it.
The conclusion is, time travel is COMPLETELY useless as there is a chance of 1 to infinite that you will hit the desired future. It is just something incredibly near impossible.
You would trek for thousands ans thousands of years to find the right one.
You just wouldn't if there isn't some "key" that gives you the ability to find it faster or instantly.
We can ALWAYS change the future, as there is none yet.
Everything is possible. Everything.
Even the merging of two realities that have completely different rules and factors(No gravity, no matter, no time or waves.), creating an inverted Void. Yes, Void.
The rules of the realities themselves would contradict and do extreme and probably destroying things, such as Kvazars and black holes made of pure gravity and not matter.
And time travel, if the person kills or makes his father not create him, he just disappears and turns into a lump of food somewhere completely else. It just didn't ever happen and the person won't exist.
Go to sleep. Let the Einsteins do their work instead of you.
And finally, Ladon, you didn't ever change the future. Nobody ever did, as there is none.
You can only change the present, and that is aprox. a second away from now.
Can you please bother to read what I wrote next time, and aleast start off without a insult/jab? I said IF thereby making it hypothetical. Now IF you were to see the future, you would always end up there due to it being predetermined, or it ends up being completely random in a multiple outcome scenario, you cannot say what we live in because we simple dont know. Now time travel it will basically always reset due to this fact if we were to travel to the future, and being something back it will adversely affect the future making that item never exist thereby resetting the future and past as what we took never was because we brought it to a different point in time. Also this the same for traveling into the past if we were to say kill Hitler, It would change everything up to the present and most likely make traveling into the past never happen thereby once again resetting it. Now, a being of the 4th dimension time could circumvent all these things because they can exist in all points at once but thats off topic.
And care to explain how they turn into a lump of food?
Because they would of eaten food had they been in existence, and so, the food returns to where it would of been after they are never there.
And I know there is no future, but there is going to be. The sun is going to go down today. Thats the future.
You are stupid... If they had been in existence, yes they would of eaten the food but have they not been in existence said food would've never been eaten therefore never moved..
Also your future thing is a contradiction, You say there is no future but you account for it with the sun going down allowing the belief there is a future to exist.
No, it would not go back to were it was. Someone else would eat it. And insults are very immature in a discussion such as this. The future IS going to exist. It currently does not, but I know it will.
No, it would not go back to were it was. Someone else would eat it. And insults are very immature in a discussion such as this. The future IS going to exist. It currently does not, but I know it will.
No, you misunderstood me the food will not stay in the area where the person ate it would return to its original area anything after that is irrelevant. Also you must perceive time as something always happening in all its points, such as everything is going to happen but each action changes it, or each action just leads to a predetermined point and the future exists, because we can "go" to it by hitting 80% the speed of light or above and reach it before anyone else in the previous present.
i recently had a paradox theory related to the splitting timelines. there are an infinte number of alternate universes, meaning as time progresses, the timelines open and infinite anmount of more possibilities. an example could be that your hand could have moved 2 atoms to the left instead of another direction (im not even considering other factors like skin pigment of your hand, atomical makeup, etc.). that being said, you have an infite amount of universes but at the same time have an infinite amount of more universes being created at the same time. i thought it could maybe be explained as infinity times infinity, but that's where i hit a paradox, because you cannot have anything above infinity. there might be some loopholes, but i'm pretty sure there's a solid theory in there somewhere.
Thing about paradox theories is they can't really be proven, except those pseudo-paradoxes (quantum state of life and death when the condition is indeterminable: you don't know the outcome but it never is truly quantum because it happened regardless of whether you knew or not).
Timelines could be viewed like this, it starts as a single point (the begining of time!) which was solid for one moment of time. Then it branches off into infinite numbers of possibilities, one branch for every possible outcome (a particle decays, or two matter/antimatter collide, or both simultaneously). Much like what you have described above.
Or they could be viewed as a single A to B line. Where A is 0 and B is infinite (yet again) amd every step of time determines the next step or alterinatively, every step in time is predetermined and therefore chance doesn't exist. The random decay of particals is not random but is predictable by viewing the outcome before it happens etc etc. Which would be pretty **** as there would be no surprise, because you couldn't even stop it being planned because it would already be planned that you were going to attempt to stop it being planned thus causing your brain to explode.
Anyway, thing is, they're useless anyway because there are no benefits to knowing how time works. Just cons, such as viewing your own death or the end of the world.
What I'm trying to say is, mods delete this thread before we break reality or something.
The only reason I am typing this is because I want to. i just decided not to capitalize the first word in this sentence. By doing so, I changed the future. I, by myself, changed the future.
What's to say you were inevitably going to capitalize that first word? The future bears no rules!
At the end of the day it's the chair I trust
The cushion is comfy and the works don't rust
With a straight line of vision to my Elvis bust
Watch the kingdom, eat the bread crust
i recently had a paradox theory related to the splitting timelines. there are an infinte number of alternate universes, meaning as time progresses, the timelines open and infinite anmount of more possibilities. an example could be that your hand could have moved 2 atoms to the left instead of another direction (im not even considering other factors like skin pigment of your hand, atomical makeup, etc.). that being said, you have an infite amount of universes but at the same time have an infinite amount of more universes being created at the same time. i thought it could maybe be explained as infinity times infinity, but that's where i hit a paradox, because you cannot have anything above infinity. there might be some loopholes, but i'm pretty sure there's a solid theory in there somewhere.
When I think of multiple time lines, I don't see there being one for every possibility. I just see ones being created for every possibility that has happened. What I mean is that new time lines are created only when the past is altered. You could not go to a time line where Benjamin Franklin invented AC power unless you went and made that time line. It doesn't exist without a bit of help. Once it's started, though, it'll propagate all on its own.
As time approaches infinity, the number of time lines will become infinite, but I still don't think it'd ever equal the number of possibilities overall.
Also actions which you take are they already known or entirely random? But how do they affect which is seen in the future? Does that mean they are already known? Now, what if that person did something not seen in the future? What would happen or would it be impossible in a predetermined universe.. Or do we live in a multiple-outcome universe where each action branches off into infinite possibilities?
Also, what if someone went into the past, now a grandfather paradox could happen or something rather unexpected.
As the person already went into the past and made his edit it would immidiately effect the present but, it would have to remain the same to happen so did the action ever take place? Hell, the person could've removed where he departed but if he edited it should never of happened but it does happen..
I need to sleep instead of pouring out random thoughts.
We'll never know if actions are pre-determined or if we have free-will, that would require exiting our current time-stream-deal and observing for a long period of time. Or something.
We can never see the future. The only time we can ever observe is the present. The present differs from object to object depending on where it's been and how fast it's been going, but we'll still only ever see its present.
A good way of fixing paradoxes due to time travel is to use split timelines. Whenever something is changed in history, it splits the timeline in two: One timeline where that change happened and one where it didn't. Both exist concurrently but separately.
Can you really say that? Or was your desire to not capitalize the sentence a result of your wanting to change the future, the desire for which was a result of you reading this post, etc, etc, etc.
You had reasons for doing it, and those reasons had reason to exist. Welcome to causality.
Can you please bother to read what I wrote next time, and aleast start off without a insult/jab? I said IF thereby making it hypothetical. Now IF you were to see the future, you would always end up there due to it being predetermined, or it ends up being completely random in a multiple outcome scenario, you cannot say what we live in because we simple dont know. Now time travel it will basically always reset due to this fact if we were to travel to the future, and being something back it will adversely affect the future making that item never exist thereby resetting the future and past as what we took never was because we brought it to a different point in time. Also this the same for traveling into the past if we were to say kill Hitler, It would change everything up to the present and most likely make traveling into the past never happen thereby once again resetting it. Now, a being of the 4th dimension time could circumvent all these things because they can exist in all points at once but thats off topic.
And care to explain how they turn into a lump of food?
And I know there is no future, but there is going to be. The sun is going to go down today. Thats the future.
You are stupid... If they had been in existence, yes they would of eaten the food but have they not been in existence said food would've never been eaten therefore never moved..
Also your future thing is a contradiction, You say there is no future but you account for it with the sun going down allowing the belief there is a future to exist.
No, you misunderstood me the food will not stay in the area where the person ate it would return to its original area anything after that is irrelevant. Also you must perceive time as something always happening in all its points, such as everything is going to happen but each action changes it, or each action just leads to a predetermined point and the future exists, because we can "go" to it by hitting 80% the speed of light or above and reach it before anyone else in the previous present.
Thing about paradox theories is they can't really be proven, except those pseudo-paradoxes (quantum state of life and death when the condition is indeterminable: you don't know the outcome but it never is truly quantum because it happened regardless of whether you knew or not).
Timelines could be viewed like this, it starts as a single point (the begining of time!) which was solid for one moment of time. Then it branches off into infinite numbers of possibilities, one branch for every possible outcome (a particle decays, or two matter/antimatter collide, or both simultaneously). Much like what you have described above.
Or they could be viewed as a single A to B line. Where A is 0 and B is infinite (yet again) amd every step of time determines the next step or alterinatively, every step in time is predetermined and therefore chance doesn't exist. The random decay of particals is not random but is predictable by viewing the outcome before it happens etc etc. Which would be pretty **** as there would be no surprise, because you couldn't even stop it being planned because it would already be planned that you were going to attempt to stop it being planned thus causing your brain to explode.
Anyway, thing is, they're useless anyway because there are no benefits to knowing how time works. Just cons, such as viewing your own death or the end of the world.
What I'm trying to say is, mods delete this thread before we break reality or something.
What's to say you were inevitably going to capitalize that first word? The future bears no rules!
9:10 PM [/thread]
THATS what time is
The cushion is comfy and the works don't rust
With a straight line of vision to my Elvis bust
Watch the kingdom, eat the bread crust
When I think of multiple time lines, I don't see there being one for every possibility. I just see ones being created for every possibility that has happened. What I mean is that new time lines are created only when the past is altered. You could not go to a time line where Benjamin Franklin invented AC power unless you went and made that time line. It doesn't exist without a bit of help. Once it's started, though, it'll propagate all on its own.
As time approaches infinity, the number of time lines will become infinite, but I still don't think it'd ever equal the number of possibilities overall.