I'm sure others have thought about concepts like this before, even Minecraft players, and have probably attempted to build the impossible futuristic city using mods that is utopian in every sense of the word.
But the real world is unfortunately very different,
it does not have literal equality and sometimes people and nature itself can be very cruel towards people.
If a world was perfect as some imagine Heaven from religious mythology to be,
there wouldn't be any crime or unfairness anywhere, none, not small pockets of it beyond our ability to fix only as some futurists such as Jacque Fresco have envisioned, a perfect world would have a 0% unfairness, suffering or crime rate and we wouldn't need taxes or governments or their science funding to address problems other things cannot.
It is very unfortunate that the real world will never achieve this in any timeline or distant future,
but one can dream about it. A world where not only poverty and war were stopped, but also the eternal bliss that some religious people hope to go to after they die, which to be frank there is no evidence for.
I accept that some things are achievabe and other things are not, however that doesn't mean people should give up trying to make the world a better place. Advances in technology and automation do provide a possible end to all poverty someday which I hope does happen, but that's assuming we don't let prejudiced people make the decisions about it because believe it or not, some people really do hate the poor and view them as parasites, assume they're all too lazy to work or undeserving of protection from the state in or out of work, and that's a sad state of affairs when this happens but also when homeless people are abused horribly by passersby. Something needs to be done, but it will never solve the problem under systems like laissez faire capitalism because all an economic system like that would do is reward 1st world wants of the few and the privileged and those wanting to make a profit off of other people's labour and the exploitation of natural resources, it does nothing to address the problem of working class people not being paid enough just so shareholders and bosses can have bloated salaries, or severely disabled or mentally ill people being rejected by welfare systems and not being helped by charities due to lack of funding or resources, resulting in their inevitable torment in poverty until their early death.
utopia will never exist in the life of the human race, because of humans being human, maybe once we destroy ourselves utopia can exist for all the creatures left
I'd like to think we could achieve a better state than we are in now, not perfection or utopia as those are impossible because of things like human nature and natural selection, but even then it could easily go in the opposite direction because wars are still happening. Besides even without humans other species will still be in a tough and competitive environment, as evidenced by the David Attenborough documentaries, where even things like fungi can wipe out a significant population of a particular species very quickly, the cordyceps fungi for example is very toxic to insects, it might be useful as pest control for people in their gardens but this is because we evolved differently from insects and some things that are toxic for them aren't so toxic for us.
When we fight nature we will lose every time.
Just like with climate change, if we do not abandon the enormous dependence on fossil fuels then the future is looking very grim for humanity indeed.
The planet would still be here, but it is the future generations who stand to take significant losses because of our mistakes in our generation.
I disagree. We are capable of wonders beyond the imagination of the earliest humans.
We as a species will never stop envisioning the prospects of a world better than ours. Sir Thomas More gave it a crack in 1516, as did Adam Smith in 1776 and Karl Marx in 1848. We inherit their legacies and we have never ceased to try to make these realities. Hell, most religious traditions of this world see a form of "Utopia" in an afterlife.
Humanity knows no bound except for the "great filter" of the Kardashev scale. But we don't even know if that exists. As we enter the new frontiers of Martian colonization and transhumanism, don't be so pessimistic. We may still be under the thumb of capitalism, but we as a species have done plenty to rid ourselves of hereditary monarchies / nobilities and slavery.
Utopia did exist, but sadly ended 9000 years ago, when civilization arose and we humans became "civilized". Before that there was equality and no crime, no unfairness, no capitalism or consumerism.
One of the last places for Utopia was Catalhoyuk in modern day Turkey.
I disagree. We are capable of wonders beyond the imagination of the earliest humans.
We as a species will never stop envisioning the prospects of a world better than ours. Sir Thomas More gave it a crack in 1516, as did Adam Smith in 1776 and Karl Marx in 1848. We inherit their legacies and we have never ceased to try to make these realities. Hell, most religious traditions of this world see a form of "Utopia" in an afterlife.
Humanity knows no bound except for the "great filter" of the Kardashev scale. But we don't even know if that exists. As we enter the new frontiers of Martian colonization and transhumanism, don't be so pessimistic. We may still be under the thumb of capitalism, but we as a species have done plenty to rid ourselves of hereditary monarchies / nobilities and slavery.
But that's just it, utopia can't exist except inside of a human imagination, and it is a place many religious people hope to go to after they pass on from this life, but sadly it will never happen.
I doubt Karl Marx was foolish enough to believe or even claim Heaven was real, in fact judging by what I've read about him I'd say he understood the limits of the natural world better than a lot of people do now.
I think hoping for a utopian afterlife is a waste of time because not only is there no evidence for it, we have enough physical evidence to prove that perfection is simply impossible, it's nothing to do with being AnPrim, it's a simple fact that people need to grasp, and I think religion holds humanity back on some aspects. Scientific achievements didn't come from believing in God, they came from hard work, study and evidence based methodology.
It is true that consciousness is not completely understood, in fact the workings of the human brain are still being studied to this day.
But just because we don't have enough information on how the brain works, doesn't mean we should support metaphysics or mysticism.
Whether or not consciousness can persist in another animal life form after death I don't know, and it's a complicated topic that Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose are working on. Even if that form of afterlife could happen, it is still limited and governed by physical laws we don't yet fully understand.
And to be completely honest that form of an afterlife would suck,
because it would mean potentially, by natural selection, we could be reborn to be hurt or killed over and over again, never to achieve what Buddhists call Nirvana, we would come back into a universe to suffer all the hardships you've seen reported in the media or experienced yourself in this life, forever.
That's why the thought of an afterlife, in my view is scary,
while it wouldn't be Hell in the sense Christians or Muslims believe, it wouldn't be much better of what Stuart Hameroff claims is possible to be correct.
But that's just it, utopia can't exist except inside of a human imagination, and it is a place many religious people hope to go to after they pass on from this life, but sadly it will never happen.
It may just be that we are beyond the point of no return, and we can't go back to the Utopia that did exist, due to the human imagination and the human mind. Just like a child with a vivid imagination, that as an adult lack imagination due to having the head full of serious and dull adult-stuff.
It may just be that we are beyond the point of no return, and we can't go back to the Utopia that did exist, due to the human imagination and the human mind. Just like a child with a vivid imagination, that as an adult lack imagination due to having the head full of serious and dull adult-stuff.
Humans are incapable of perfection as it is, and adults have the knowledge of how to be sadistic so clearly utopia cannot happen with our species. We also have this inconvenient thing about the universe called entropy, that is everything gradually becomes more disorderly as time goes on. Entropy affects everything from DNA in our cells, to memory chips inside of computers, SD cards and materials inside of CD/DVD tracks etc, causing bitrot.
The closest thing to eternal peace is ironically death, but what keeps us going? what prevents everyone from committing suicide?
we're not all mentally ill, and we want to see how events unfold, because the problem with death is we miss out on what can improve or what is good about the world. Goals to achieve whether it be space exploration and discovery, or seeing their favourite sports player win etc, or seeing their sons and daughters grow up to be independent and able to support themselves.
Whatever it may be, the world isn't utopian, but that isn't stopping people from trying.
I'm sure others have thought about concepts like this before, even Minecraft players, and have probably attempted to build the impossible futuristic city using mods that is utopian in every sense of the word.
But the real world is unfortunately very different,
it does not have literal equality and sometimes people and nature itself can be very cruel towards people.
If a world was perfect as some imagine Heaven from religious mythology to be,
there wouldn't be any crime or unfairness anywhere, none, not small pockets of it beyond our ability to fix only as some futurists such as Jacque Fresco have envisioned, a perfect world would have a 0% unfairness, suffering or crime rate and we wouldn't need taxes or governments or their science funding to address problems other things cannot.
It is very unfortunate that the real world will never achieve this in any timeline or distant future,
but one can dream about it. A world where not only poverty and war were stopped, but also the eternal bliss that some religious people hope to go to after they die, which to be frank there is no evidence for.
I accept that some things are achievabe and other things are not, however that doesn't mean people should give up trying to make the world a better place. Advances in technology and automation do provide a possible end to all poverty someday which I hope does happen, but that's assuming we don't let prejudiced people make the decisions about it because believe it or not, some people really do hate the poor and view them as parasites, assume they're all too lazy to work or undeserving of protection from the state in or out of work, and that's a sad state of affairs when this happens but also when homeless people are abused horribly by passersby. Something needs to be done, but it will never solve the problem under systems like laissez faire capitalism because all an economic system like that would do is reward 1st world wants of the few and the privileged and those wanting to make a profit off of other people's labour and the exploitation of natural resources, it does nothing to address the problem of working class people not being paid enough just so shareholders and bosses can have bloated salaries, or severely disabled or mentally ill people being rejected by welfare systems and not being helped by charities due to lack of funding or resources, resulting in their inevitable torment in poverty until their early death.
I'd like to think we could achieve a better state than we are in now, not perfection or utopia as those are impossible because of things like human nature and natural selection, but even then it could easily go in the opposite direction because wars are still happening. Besides even without humans other species will still be in a tough and competitive environment, as evidenced by the David Attenborough documentaries, where even things like fungi can wipe out a significant population of a particular species very quickly, the cordyceps fungi for example is very toxic to insects, it might be useful as pest control for people in their gardens but this is because we evolved differently from insects and some things that are toxic for them aren't so toxic for us.
When we fight nature we will lose every time.
Just like with climate change, if we do not abandon the enormous dependence on fossil fuels then the future is looking very grim for humanity indeed.
The planet would still be here, but it is the future generations who stand to take significant losses because of our mistakes in our generation.
AnPrim are we?
I disagree. We are capable of wonders beyond the imagination of the earliest humans.
We as a species will never stop envisioning the prospects of a world better than ours. Sir Thomas More gave it a crack in 1516, as did Adam Smith in 1776 and Karl Marx in 1848. We inherit their legacies and we have never ceased to try to make these realities. Hell, most religious traditions of this world see a form of "Utopia" in an afterlife.
Humanity knows no bound except for the "great filter" of the Kardashev scale. But we don't even know if that exists. As we enter the new frontiers of Martian colonization and transhumanism, don't be so pessimistic. We may still be under the thumb of capitalism, but we as a species have done plenty to rid ourselves of hereditary monarchies / nobilities and slavery.
Utopia did exist, but sadly ended 9000 years ago, when civilization arose and we humans became "civilized". Before that there was equality and no crime, no unfairness, no capitalism or consumerism.
One of the last places for Utopia was Catalhoyuk in modern day Turkey.
But that's just it, utopia can't exist except inside of a human imagination, and it is a place many religious people hope to go to after they pass on from this life, but sadly it will never happen.
I doubt Karl Marx was foolish enough to believe or even claim Heaven was real, in fact judging by what I've read about him I'd say he understood the limits of the natural world better than a lot of people do now.
I think hoping for a utopian afterlife is a waste of time because not only is there no evidence for it, we have enough physical evidence to prove that perfection is simply impossible, it's nothing to do with being AnPrim, it's a simple fact that people need to grasp, and I think religion holds humanity back on some aspects. Scientific achievements didn't come from believing in God, they came from hard work, study and evidence based methodology.
It is true that consciousness is not completely understood, in fact the workings of the human brain are still being studied to this day.
But just because we don't have enough information on how the brain works, doesn't mean we should support metaphysics or mysticism.
Whether or not consciousness can persist in another animal life form after death I don't know, and it's a complicated topic that Stuart Hameroff and Roger Penrose are working on. Even if that form of afterlife could happen, it is still limited and governed by physical laws we don't yet fully understand.
And to be completely honest that form of an afterlife would suck,
because it would mean potentially, by natural selection, we could be reborn to be hurt or killed over and over again, never to achieve what Buddhists call Nirvana, we would come back into a universe to suffer all the hardships you've seen reported in the media or experienced yourself in this life, forever.
That's why the thought of an afterlife, in my view is scary,
while it wouldn't be Hell in the sense Christians or Muslims believe, it wouldn't be much better of what Stuart Hameroff claims is possible to be correct.
It may just be that we are beyond the point of no return, and we can't go back to the Utopia that did exist, due to the human imagination and the human mind. Just like a child with a vivid imagination, that as an adult lack imagination due to having the head full of serious and dull adult-stuff.
Humans are incapable of perfection as it is, and adults have the knowledge of how to be sadistic so clearly utopia cannot happen with our species. We also have this inconvenient thing about the universe called entropy, that is everything gradually becomes more disorderly as time goes on. Entropy affects everything from DNA in our cells, to memory chips inside of computers, SD cards and materials inside of CD/DVD tracks etc, causing bitrot.
The closest thing to eternal peace is ironically death, but what keeps us going? what prevents everyone from committing suicide?
we're not all mentally ill, and we want to see how events unfold, because the problem with death is we miss out on what can improve or what is good about the world. Goals to achieve whether it be space exploration and discovery, or seeing their favourite sports player win etc, or seeing their sons and daughters grow up to be independent and able to support themselves.
Whatever it may be, the world isn't utopian, but that isn't stopping people from trying.