I really think it has no musical elements, I can't understand anything they are saying most of the time and some of it is really scary . What does shouting, witchcraft, vampires, and satanic elements have to do with music? I would like to know and please realize I'm not dissing metal I'm just wondering. I do respect Marilyn Manson for his great knowledge, he really does seem like a brilliant person but he has done some disturbing things that I have heard of.
How does singing about mopey breakups have any musical elements?
How does pouring a barrel of autotune on terrible lyrics have any musical elements?
How does talking about sex and drugs with a beat in the background have any musical elements?
How does copy&pasting repetitive tunes on a computer have any musical elements?
How does twerking in front of a camera have any musical elements?
How are the songs in metal more complex than any other genre?
The better question would be how are metal songs "not" more complex than any other genre, go listen to any Dream Theater or early Queensryche song and see what is more complex.
I said "musically" it is arguably more talented, it's easy to learn how to make dubstep, how to write a catchy pop/country tune, or play a few repetitive chords over and over again (which most current Country/Pop music is), I'm not saying it has better vocal talent (which I believe a lot of metal singers are given enough credit for how talented they really are), I'm not saying rapping doesn't take talent, I'm not saying any of that, but musically playing a progressive/thrash/death metal song can sure be a lot harder to play than any power pop/bubblegum pop song ever written.
Let me put it this way, those who play metal really shine at playing their instrument. You generally won't see a lead guitarist making dubstep. And you won't see a lead guitarist rapping. But what you will see the lead guitarist doing is playing the guitar as if his life depends on it.
I'm not saying metal requires more skill, I'm saying that the average level of song complexity often lies a lot higher with metal than with other genres. A metal guitarist would easily be able to repeat any jazz guitar *at least that's what I think. Correct me if I'm being ignorant* and thus people make claims metal requires more skill. It's not entirely true, but it's not grasped out of nowhere either.
I take you don't like glam metal because you think a lot of it isn't heavy enough, but I'll give some good examples either way.I'm sure you've heard of all the massive bands like Poison, Warrant, Whitesnake, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue (surprised that a heavy metal fan wouldn't like them), etc., so I'll give you more underground glam suggestions.You have Hardcore Superstar, a new glam metal band that say have thrash influences as well, Crashdiet, another new glam metal band with a rawer more punky sound, L.A. Guns (could be considered underground depending on how you look at it) really sleazy metal band, Every Mother's Nightmare, underrated early 90's glam metal band, and the list goes on.New glam metal is for the most part heavier than old glam.
Let me put it this way, those who play metal really shine at playing their instrument. You generally won't see a lead guitarist making dubstep. And you won't see a lead guitarist rapping. But what you will see the lead guitarist doing is playing the guitar as if his life depends on it.
Wait, what? Metal musicians are good at the things that they can do and are bad at things they can't do, therefore they are more talented than non-metal musicians?
I'm not saying metal requires more skill, I'm saying that the average level of song complexity often lies a lot higher with metal than with other genres. A metal guitarist would easily be able to repeat any jazz guitar *at least that's what I think. Correct me if I'm being ignorant* and thus people make claims metal requires more skill. It's not entirely true, but it's not grasped out of nowhere either.
"I'm not saying metal requires more skill"
-But you are when you say that metal is, on average, more difficult to play.
"It's not entirely true"
-It really isn't. You're making a blanket generalization based heavily in your bias in order to support your argument.
It sounds like your judging entire genres without listening to them a whole lot, but are not judging metal in the same way because you have an interest in it.
And think that why? Are you really that hell bent on proving all the other things I said are harder to do than to play a complex metal song?
No what I'm saying is that you simply assume a catchy pop tune would be the best pop has to offer. Whereas there is probably pop songs that are just as complex as metal songs and there is probably metal songs that are just as simple as a 'catchy pop tune'.
Give one example of a pop tune that is and I'll believe you, otherwise until I find one I will keep believing what I believe.
I don't know much about pop but I highly doubt an entire genre is going to be that simple.
You're in the minority....pop is made to be simplistic so it can appeal to a wide audience and earn some cash.Now, pop music is not all bad, in fact a lot of extremely talented metal bands incorporate pop elements in most of their music (Amaranthe, Poison, even Iron Maiden at times), but yet metal bands who do still have more complexity in those said songs.For example, take a huge pop hit from the 80's, let's say Here I Go Again by Whitesnake, and compare it to a huge pop hit from now, say Teenage Dream by Katy Perry.Both artists are considered the top of the top of their time, but what song is more complex and/or difficult to play/sing? Both Katy Perry and David Coverdale are strong singers, but instrument wise you have Whitesnakes band at the time (John Sykes on guitar, Neil Murray on bass, Aynsley Dunbar on drums, and Adrian Vandenberg on the solo of Here I Go Again) that smoked, and I won't say they are more talented than Katy Perry's group but if Katy's band is then they are not showing it on record.Now, you might say it is bias for me to say Whitesnake's music is more complex/harder to play than Perry's just because it has metal/rock in it, but it's very curious as to how all 80's "pop" songs by hard rock/metal bands take more talent to play than current pop bands.Not saying Katy Perry and her band are bad or not talented, in fact they are way better than most current pop artists, but it's not hard to figure out which of the two songs I said is harder to play.
Pop doesn't have to be simple, it has been proven before by metal/hard rock bands in 80's/early 90's, but unfortunately it is that way these days.
It seems your comparing metal to only modern pop and what you would hear on the radio, you seem to be ignoring the fact that there will be very talented pop artists who aren't well known. You also seem to be ignoring any sub-genres of pop.
Actually no, I was comparing the popular artists of the time and showed that 80's pop is better than modern pop (in my and many others opinions).You don't understand that pop isn't an underground genre, most pop artists at least have moderate commercial success, it's not like metal is where almost all good bands are underground these days.I've listened to a couple of underground pop artists and they sound just the same as their overground cousins.Multiple genres of pop? ok, you have techno-pop (nothing requiring to much talented), Brit-Pop (same thing), Bubblegum Pop (yuck, just yuck), Pop Rock (comprises really any genre of rock that might have pop elements in it), Pop Metal (same thing with metal), and Power Pop (really a rock genre) and that's about it.Techno.Bubblegum, Brit, and pure Pop are meant to be simple and catchy, that's it.Pop Rock and Pop Metal are meant to be catchy but not ignoring metal and rock's incredible skill level of musicianship it takes to play (good), and Power Pop could be considered regular Pop with a huge rock boost.
With a quick search I found out there are actually quite a lot more pop sub-genres then the ones you listed. Also you say you have only listened to a few underground pop artists, you can't judge an entire genre on a few musicians you've listened to.
and my statement still stands, unless you can give me a good underground pop artist that has as much complexity as a metal band, I will continue to believe it takes a little more talent to play a metal song.
and my statement still stands, unless you can give me a good underground pop artist that has as much complexity as a metal band, I will continue to believe it takes a little more talent to play a metal song.
How do you judge complexity in this instance? What kind of things make a song more "complex" than others?
Now, I agree that most "mainstream" pop music today is designed to appeal to as many people as possible, and I do think that quality suffers as a result, but you can't just use mainstream pop to "prove" that the entire genre is less complex and requires less talent; that would be absurd.
It's actually quite humorous in my opinion, because you're basically doing the exact same thing that the OP did, but with pop instead of metal.
To be honest, metal of all kinds make my ears bleed, but that doesn't mean metal is bad in general.
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How do you judge complexity in this instance? What kind of things make a song more "complex" than others?
Now, I agree that most "mainstream" pop music today is designed to appeal to as many people as possible, and I do think that quality suffers as a result, but you can't just use mainstream pop to "prove" that the entire genre is less complex and requires less talent; that would be absurd.
It's actually quite humorous in my opinion, because you're basically doing the exact same thing that the OP did, but with pop instead of metal.
How does singing about mopey breakups have any musical elements?
How does pouring a barrel of autotune on terrible lyrics have any musical elements?
How does talking about sex and drugs with a beat in the background have any musical elements?
How does copy&pasting repetitive tunes on a computer have any musical elements?
How does twerking in front of a camera have any musical elements?
Some people like it, some people don't.
I said "musically" it is arguably more talented, it's easy to learn how to make dubstep, how to write a catchy pop/country tune, or play a few repetitive chords over and over again (which most current Country/Pop music is), I'm not saying it has better vocal talent (which I believe a lot of metal singers are given enough credit for how talented they really are), I'm not saying rapping doesn't take talent, I'm not saying any of that, but musically playing a progressive/thrash/death metal song can sure be a lot harder to play than any power pop/bubblegum pop song ever written.
Wait, what? Metal musicians are good at the things that they can do and are bad at things they can't do, therefore they are more talented than non-metal musicians?
"I'm not saying metal requires more skill"
-But you are when you say that metal is, on average, more difficult to play.
"It's not entirely true"
-It really isn't. You're making a blanket generalization based heavily in your bias in order to support your argument.
Are you saying it is harder to write a catchy pop tune than it is to write a metal tune?
Give one example of a pop tune that is and I'll believe you, otherwise until I find one I will keep believing what I believe.
You're in the minority....pop is made to be simplistic so it can appeal to a wide audience and earn some cash.Now, pop music is not all bad, in fact a lot of extremely talented metal bands incorporate pop elements in most of their music (Amaranthe, Poison, even Iron Maiden at times), but yet metal bands who do still have more complexity in those said songs.For example, take a huge pop hit from the 80's, let's say Here I Go Again by Whitesnake, and compare it to a huge pop hit from now, say Teenage Dream by Katy Perry.Both artists are considered the top of the top of their time, but what song is more complex and/or difficult to play/sing? Both Katy Perry and David Coverdale are strong singers, but instrument wise you have Whitesnakes band at the time (John Sykes on guitar, Neil Murray on bass, Aynsley Dunbar on drums, and Adrian Vandenberg on the solo of Here I Go Again) that smoked, and I won't say they are more talented than Katy Perry's group but if Katy's band is then they are not showing it on record.Now, you might say it is bias for me to say Whitesnake's music is more complex/harder to play than Perry's just because it has metal/rock in it, but it's very curious as to how all 80's "pop" songs by hard rock/metal bands take more talent to play than current pop bands.Not saying Katy Perry and her band are bad or not talented, in fact they are way better than most current pop artists, but it's not hard to figure out which of the two songs I said is harder to play.
Pop doesn't have to be simple, it has been proven before by metal/hard rock bands in 80's/early 90's, but unfortunately it is that way these days.
How do you judge complexity in this instance? What kind of things make a song more "complex" than others?
Now, I agree that most "mainstream" pop music today is designed to appeal to as many people as possible, and I do think that quality suffers as a result, but you can't just use mainstream pop to "prove" that the entire genre is less complex and requires less talent; that would be absurd.
It's actually quite humorous in my opinion, because you're basically doing the exact same thing that the OP did, but with pop instead of metal.
I just had to do that.
Although I am a massive metal fan, I can see why others don't like it. Bands with meaning are good. Mindless rubbish is horrible. That's my take.
I don't trust something that bleeds for seven days and doesn't die. That's just crazy. -WayTooManyLlamas