I just recently returned to Minecraft, and one thing that's been bothering me a little is the endless amount of caves and mineshafts. In the past I'd often live underground and mine a lot, and finding caves was an awesome thing, and mineshafts a big plus. Now I can never start a proper mine anywhere without instantly hitting giant cave systems, and they always seem to include a mineshaft, and it takes forever to explore it all and clear it out. By the time I'm halfway through I have enough of every resource to no longer have any need to make a strip mine. Spelunking like this might be a lot of fun, but it's also dangerous and confusing (it feels like cheating to always have to dig up to find my way out) and I miss the process of mining out the ground and being happy to hit ore veins. It also helped with amassing blocks to build with, while now with the caves I never end up with chestfuls of cobble anymore, and it's less fun to mine purely for the purpose of getting the stone itself.
Does anyone else miss getting to mine out the underground, and do you have any tips on how to still do it? I feel like that half of the Minecraft world has been taken away from me, and it was my favorite. Creating anything down there is difficult when caves constantly get in the way.
Cave generation has not been changed since 1.7, and that version actually significantly reduced the size and density of cave systems, though it did make them much more spread out so there are much smaller areas free of caves (there are 30% more caves in 1.6.4 than 1.7+ but 1.6.4 has more open areas since they are more concentrated in regions of high cave density):
1.6.4:
1.7+:
One thing this doesn't show well is the changes to mineshafts; prior to 1.13 they were less common within 80 chunks or 1280 blocks of the origin, with the base chance being multiplied by distance / 80; 1.13 removed this with the result that they are now more common within 32 chunks of the origin than they were in 1.6.4, despite being only 40% as common since 1.7 (80 * 40% = 32); either way, they may now seem more common near spawn but they are still much less common overall. Also dungeons are less than half as common as they were in 1.6.4, mainly due to a doubling of their y-range from 128 to 256 despite caves not taking advantage of it.
Case in point, this is a 80x230 block branch-mine I made in my current modded world, which has even more caves than 1.6.4 (nearly double the total volume of 1.7+ in fact, mainly due to caves able to get far larger); I didn't have any problems mining below lava level (only a few small caves), though I happened to start mining in a region of low cave density (in another world I did hit a lot of caves but I just mined in the opposite direction):
In fact, aside from small surface caves and a stronghold that I found with eyes of ender, all the caves seen are directly interconnected - I actually explore the world by moving from one cave system to the next underground, exploring them at the rate of about 100 chunks and 3000 ores mined per play session (this was over 30 days); otherwise, I only branch-mine to get essential resources when I start out in a new world:
You truly live up to your name, thank you for all the information. If I understood it correctly, it seems hard to fully explore cave systems as they will lead into a new one somewhere, so you've never really cleaned out all the caves in an area as you will just end up in new ones. If I hear sounds behind a wall I will usually mine through it to find the new cave too, making it even harder for them to hide from me. I'm guessing I'll be exploring caves forever, as I'm a bit OCD about exploring all of them and cleaning them out.
I'm curious, how do you avoid getting lost down there? Have you invented a system that makes it easier to map it all out, or do you use some sort of software to aid you in the process? Is it still viable to live underground? It seems like making mines is all but pointless with all these caves, perhaps except for occasionally finding more diamonds.
In all the worlds I've tried I have found a mineshaft in the caves around my starting area, or wherever I make my base, and there's usually a few dungeons there. Am I just "lucky"?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Let the fog swallow everything, and have a new world emerge out of it...
There are still some good reasons to branch-mine (note: "strip mine" is a very popular term but it is technically incorrect); it is much safer due to no mobs (aside from silverfish) and it is much easier to find rare resources like diamond; even with as many ores as I mine I only find around 3-4 diamonds per hour; for comparison, branch-mining can yield nearly a stack per hour if you mine an average of one block per second (3600 * 1.7% of blocks being diamond ore; multiply these numbers by 2.2 for Fortune III). Although my rate is lower than if you only explored deeper caves to find diamonds (I explore everything with no regard to depth and mine every exposed ore, about 90% of which is coal and iron). In newer versions you can even get full diamond gear without having to eat since spawning (you don't lose any hunger from walking, no jumping, and you can mine 800 blocks per hunger point). Both of these reasons are why I branch-mine to get resources early on (also since my modded worlds, which is everything for the past 7 years, include an extremely rare ore which is more common below lava level), plus I want to save caving for the "end-game" (here is a rendering I made after I found a stronghold but before I started caving; only a few caves leading from the branch-mine can be seen).
As far as navigation, I mostly rely on memory and "return points", which are pillars I make at the surface marking where to return to, either because I had to stop and return to empty my inventory/ender chest (about every other play session) or I found a new area but don't plan to explore it right away. I also carry a map with me so I can see where I've been in general, which is quiet useful even if they only show the surface (generally everything within the mapped area has been explored so I'll be going around the edges. Likewise, while I record the coordinates of return points I generally only need to look them up when returning to an area after a long time (this has even been years in some of my worlds), otherwise just remembering where they were in general on the map is enough).
The renderings I make of what I've explored (using MCMap, which I used to make the 30 day animation with one frame added after each session) only show explored caves and aren't very useful for showing where I should go or even am as there are no coordinates and they are rendered in 3D (as opposed to a tool like Unmined, which I used to make the maps of the branch-mine after deleting unexplored chunks from a copy of the world).
(it feels like cheating to always have to dig up to find my way out)
This comment brought back memories of me when I first started playing. On my very first cave outing it didn’t occur to me to just dig straight up to get out and I wandered around underground for hours trying to find my way back.
I do a lot of branch mining and don‘t seem to run into cave systems and mineshafts as frequently as you do, so a bit of luck may be involved. I am always delighted to find a mineshaft, however, because I need all the wood and rails for my projects, and I use color coded carpet to keep from getting lost.
I very much appreciate the clarification of strip mining. I've been thinking it seems to be used wrong, but people keep using it so it has been bothering me for years, as words are important to me. I'll adjust accordingly in the light of this new information
Your numbers on diamonds do make for a good case to branch mine, but it seems like it'd be best to wait until a Fortune III pick has been acquired, which would take away the early game mining.
As far as keeping your bearings goes it sounds like maps could be worth trying, and they are a cool thing I've always wanted to find a use for anyway.
Thank you again for all the nice information.
@Toadrunner
I often stay down there for a good while trying to find my way back out before I admit defeat and dig up, it's more of a last resort thing. I should definitely come up with a system like your color coded carpet thing. I was thinking of doing a simple one where I put torches on the floor when I enter a cave system, and then when it branches off I'll put them on the walls and keep the floor ones in one of the paths, so I'll know that when I encounter the path of floor-torches it only goes one way and ends up at the entrance.
Perhaps the diamond-level branch mines are more successful once you actually get there, it's usually the way down that leads me to a cave system. Regarding the mineshafts I'm with you on the resources, I'm always so psyched to gather the rails so I can make a railroad someday, I really like those.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Let the fog swallow everything, and have a new world emerge out of it...
Personally I'm very fond of jack-o'-lanterns (though they aren't always available in the very early game).
If you place them as you go in they will be facing back towards where you came from, not always the closest way back, particularly in mineshafts, but at least a way back (as long as you place them often and carefully enough.)
If I don't have jack-o'-lanterns I'll use an out of place block, like netherrack in the Overworld or cobble in the Nether, with a torch on the side facing the way back.
At one time I was using different blocks for different paths.
I've tried methods like always placing the torches on the right but that's not for me, I just rush in spamming torches everywhere.
Thanks for the ideas, you make a good point that torches might easily just be placed down and end up not working well. Some out of place block would always stick out, and since you're placing it purely as a marker (while torches are something you always place) it would be easier to remember to do it right.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Let the fog swallow everything, and have a new world emerge out of it...
If you truly want a strip mining project to keep you busy for >months<, locate a stronghold and excavate it. You will mine LOTS of rock, you will find LOTS of ore and as long as you stay committed to your task, (excavate the stronghold), you won't just be mining for 'nothing'. Have fun.
If you truly want a strip mining project to keep you busy for >months<, locate a stronghold and excavate it. You will mine LOTS of rock, you will find LOTS of ore and as long as you stay committed to your task, (excavate the stronghold), you won't just be mining for 'nothing'. Have fun.
That could apply to more than just strongholds. I ended up with something like 40-50 iron blocks when I excavated three chunks for my slime farm. Given, most of it came from when I was lighting up the surrounding caves.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch out for the crabocalypse. Some say the day will never come. But it will.
Feel free to drop by for a chat whenever.
If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.
I just recently returned to Minecraft, and one thing that's been bothering me a little is the endless amount of caves and mineshafts. In the past I'd often live underground and mine a lot, and finding caves was an awesome thing, and mineshafts a big plus. Now I can never start a proper mine anywhere without instantly hitting giant cave systems, and they always seem to include a mineshaft, and it takes forever to explore it all and clear it out. By the time I'm halfway through I have enough of every resource to no longer have any need to make a strip mine. Spelunking like this might be a lot of fun, but it's also dangerous and confusing (it feels like cheating to always have to dig up to find my way out) and I miss the process of mining out the ground and being happy to hit ore veins. It also helped with amassing blocks to build with, while now with the caves I never end up with chestfuls of cobble anymore, and it's less fun to mine purely for the purpose of getting the stone itself.
Does anyone else miss getting to mine out the underground, and do you have any tips on how to still do it? I feel like that half of the Minecraft world has been taken away from me, and it was my favorite. Creating anything down there is difficult when caves constantly get in the way.
Cave generation has not been changed since 1.7, and that version actually significantly reduced the size and density of cave systems, though it did make them much more spread out so there are much smaller areas free of caves (there are 30% more caves in 1.6.4 than 1.7+ but 1.6.4 has more open areas since they are more concentrated in regions of high cave density):
1.7+:
One thing this doesn't show well is the changes to mineshafts; prior to 1.13 they were less common within 80 chunks or 1280 blocks of the origin, with the base chance being multiplied by distance / 80; 1.13 removed this with the result that they are now more common within 32 chunks of the origin than they were in 1.6.4, despite being only 40% as common since 1.7 (80 * 40% = 32); either way, they may now seem more common near spawn but they are still much less common overall. Also dungeons are less than half as common as they were in 1.6.4, mainly due to a doubling of their y-range from 128 to 256 despite caves not taking advantage of it.
Case in point, this is a 80x230 block branch-mine I made in my current modded world, which has even more caves than 1.6.4 (nearly double the total volume of 1.7+ in fact, mainly due to caves able to get far larger); I didn't have any problems mining below lava level (only a few small caves), though I happened to start mining in a region of low cave density (in another world I did hit a lot of caves but I just mined in the opposite direction):
In fact, aside from small surface caves and a stronghold that I found with eyes of ender, all the caves seen are directly interconnected - I actually explore the world by moving from one cave system to the next underground, exploring them at the rate of about 100 chunks and 3000 ores mined per play session (this was over 30 days); otherwise, I only branch-mine to get essential resources when I start out in a new world:
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
You truly live up to your name, thank you for all the information. If I understood it correctly, it seems hard to fully explore cave systems as they will lead into a new one somewhere, so you've never really cleaned out all the caves in an area as you will just end up in new ones. If I hear sounds behind a wall I will usually mine through it to find the new cave too, making it even harder for them to hide from me. I'm guessing I'll be exploring caves forever, as I'm a bit OCD about exploring all of them and cleaning them out.
I'm curious, how do you avoid getting lost down there? Have you invented a system that makes it easier to map it all out, or do you use some sort of software to aid you in the process? Is it still viable to live underground? It seems like making mines is all but pointless with all these caves, perhaps except for occasionally finding more diamonds.
In all the worlds I've tried I have found a mineshaft in the caves around my starting area, or wherever I make my base, and there's usually a few dungeons there. Am I just "lucky"?
There are still some good reasons to branch-mine (note: "strip mine" is a very popular term but it is technically incorrect); it is much safer due to no mobs (aside from silverfish) and it is much easier to find rare resources like diamond; even with as many ores as I mine I only find around 3-4 diamonds per hour; for comparison, branch-mining can yield nearly a stack per hour if you mine an average of one block per second (3600 * 1.7% of blocks being diamond ore; multiply these numbers by 2.2 for Fortune III). Although my rate is lower than if you only explored deeper caves to find diamonds (I explore everything with no regard to depth and mine every exposed ore, about 90% of which is coal and iron). In newer versions you can even get full diamond gear without having to eat since spawning (you don't lose any hunger from walking, no jumping, and you can mine 800 blocks per hunger point). Both of these reasons are why I branch-mine to get resources early on (also since my modded worlds, which is everything for the past 7 years, include an extremely rare ore which is more common below lava level), plus I want to save caving for the "end-game" (here is a rendering I made after I found a stronghold but before I started caving; only a few caves leading from the branch-mine can be seen).
As far as navigation, I mostly rely on memory and "return points", which are pillars I make at the surface marking where to return to, either because I had to stop and return to empty my inventory/ender chest (about every other play session) or I found a new area but don't plan to explore it right away. I also carry a map with me so I can see where I've been in general, which is quiet useful even if they only show the surface (generally everything within the mapped area has been explored so I'll be going around the edges. Likewise, while I record the coordinates of return points I generally only need to look them up when returning to an area after a long time (this has even been years in some of my worlds), otherwise just remembering where they were in general on the map is enough).
The renderings I make of what I've explored (using MCMap, which I used to make the 30 day animation with one frame added after each session) only show explored caves and aren't very useful for showing where I should go or even am as there are no coordinates and they are rendered in 3D (as opposed to a tool like Unmined, which I used to make the maps of the branch-mine after deleting unexplored chunks from a copy of the world).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
This comment brought back memories of me when I first started playing. On my very first cave outing it didn’t occur to me to just dig straight up to get out and I wandered around underground for hours trying to find my way back.
I do a lot of branch mining and don‘t seem to run into cave systems and mineshafts as frequently as you do, so a bit of luck may be involved. I am always delighted to find a mineshaft, however, because I need all the wood and rails for my projects, and I use color coded carpet to keep from getting lost.
@TheMAsterCaver
I very much appreciate the clarification of strip mining. I've been thinking it seems to be used wrong, but people keep using it so it has been bothering me for years, as words are important to me. I'll adjust accordingly in the light of this new information
Your numbers on diamonds do make for a good case to branch mine, but it seems like it'd be best to wait until a Fortune III pick has been acquired, which would take away the early game mining.
As far as keeping your bearings goes it sounds like maps could be worth trying, and they are a cool thing I've always wanted to find a use for anyway.
Thank you again for all the nice information.
@Toadrunner
I often stay down there for a good while trying to find my way back out before I admit defeat and dig up, it's more of a last resort thing. I should definitely come up with a system like your color coded carpet thing. I was thinking of doing a simple one where I put torches on the floor when I enter a cave system, and then when it branches off I'll put them on the walls and keep the floor ones in one of the paths, so I'll know that when I encounter the path of floor-torches it only goes one way and ends up at the entrance.
Perhaps the diamond-level branch mines are more successful once you actually get there, it's usually the way down that leads me to a cave system. Regarding the mineshafts I'm with you on the resources, I'm always so psyched to gather the rails so I can make a railroad someday, I really like those.
Personally I'm very fond of jack-o'-lanterns (though they aren't always available in the very early game).
If you place them as you go in they will be facing back towards where you came from, not always the closest way back, particularly in mineshafts, but at least a way back (as long as you place them often and carefully enough.)
If I don't have jack-o'-lanterns I'll use an out of place block, like netherrack in the Overworld or cobble in the Nether, with a torch on the side facing the way back.
At one time I was using different blocks for different paths.
I've tried methods like always placing the torches on the right but that's not for me, I just rush in spamming torches everywhere.
Just testing.
Thanks for the ideas, you make a good point that torches might easily just be placed down and end up not working well. Some out of place block would always stick out, and since you're placing it purely as a marker (while torches are something you always place) it would be easier to remember to do it right.
If you truly want a strip mining project to keep you busy for >months<, locate a stronghold and excavate it. You will mine LOTS of rock, you will find LOTS of ore and as long as you stay committed to your task, (excavate the stronghold), you won't just be mining for 'nothing'. Have fun.
That's not a bad idea! I excavated a pirate ship and it was lots of fun, a stronghold seems great for a big digging project, and I love those. Thanks
That could apply to more than just strongholds. I ended up with something like 40-50 iron blocks when I excavated three chunks for my slime farm. Given, most of it came from when I was lighting up the surrounding caves.
Watch out for the crabocalypse. Some say the day will never come. But it will.
Feel free to drop by for a chat whenever.
If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.