What if you have a primary objective, a sponge spawned by an op maybe, one for each clan, hidden in a vault in each's main base. the 3 have a main base and several outposts and small mini bases set up on their marked territory. All have about 15 people. there are 3 clans. One on a different island surrounded by a no-man's-land of small islands in between, a mountainous one for A, a flat one with a small forest on B, and a forest Island for C. In order to reach any of them, you must go by boat, build huge bridges across the no-man's-land, or dig under. All 3 have similar power in terms of resources, skill in combat and espionage.
Clan A's base is on a mountain that has been cleared of trees and any obstructions(bluffs,outcrops,overhangs).
It has a few aimable and none aimable cannons built into it.It is water walled with lava on the inside, an auto fixing wall.
Clan B's base is a large obsidian fortress, a large hyperion cannon, and a large force of dogs. Also controls large strip mines surrounding the areas around the bases.
Clan C's base is in the middle of a large forest, intentionally very thick, stone walls filled with lava. The lava is supposed to flow out and burn the surrounding trees as a signal for attack as well as a hurdle for attackers. Has 360 degree cannon and a labyrinth of rooms under it to its vault.
What do you think will happen if any one of these clans does a frontal assault on anothers base? How do you think they will execute their assault.
As for clan A, stay on a nearby island and fire cannon at it. It will eventually fall apart, their cannons will blow up, and you'll lower their morale terribly. Then send in scouts and kill all the civilians. Don't take the sponge until the very end. Low mercy.
As for clan B, you'll need a spy to crack this nut. Sabotage the cannon, kill the dogs (Ignite them), assassinate the generals, just generally murder their toys. When done playing with your food, take the sponge and run. If they have a habit of making this kind of base, it's a good idea to take prisoners if you can. High mercy level, once you're done. Low, at the start.
Finally, for clan C, get some rangers to hop on the forest canopy and wreck the base from the inside-out. A couple of assassins to wreck the cannon, steal information on the location of the sponge, and basically thoroughly wreck the place. When you're done/all your rangers die after freezing the wall into cobble, fire cannons into the place and send in foot soldiers. Leave nobody alive. Zero mercy.
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
You repeatedly mention civilians. What civilians are you talking about? There aren't going to really be any in minecraft war, as they would choose a building server if they wanted to be civilian.
A mod that makes civilians that for every enemy civilians you kill you get 10 points?
and for every civilians someone kills of yours, you lose 10 points?
A mod that makes civilians that for every enemy civilians you kill you get 10 points?
and for every civilians someone kills of yours, you lose 10 points?
or you could make it 1 instead of 10?
This thread is a discussion of Minecraft PvP, not modded PvAI.
A lot of this conversation seems to only apply to large teams (at least 50 people) fighting another group of about equal size, and each team has access to immense amounts of material.
Usually, this doesn't happen. This is almost entirely because of small server population caps. If there were a server that allowed people in the hundreds to play at once, then these tactics and ideas would be applicable.
Right now, it's almost always just 10 vs. 10 at the most, which does not call for cannons, sieges, long-term spying, or anything like that.
I think our conversations should be focused more on things that actually happen in vanilla gameplay multiplayer servers.
here's a scenario I would like to discuss: There are clans which are made up of 10 people each.
clan A has a larg mob traps that supply them with all the arrows they will ever need to support their small group. They have single a fort above ground, which is made with lava-obby sandwich walls. They use a direct, brute force style attack plan: Have charge at the enemy base and rush in. They use generic defensive tactics; Spam arrows in their target's direction.
Group B, however, is made up of dozens of small bases spread out randomly throughout the world. They don't have mob traps, but they have amassed an incredibly massive stockpile of arrows by gathering the morning drops of burned monsters over a span of several weeks. They aren't very good at combat, but they are all good at sneaking into and around places.
Who has the overall advantage? I would personally prefer group B. They could easily sneak in and steal gunpowder from the mob trap and make a few cannons, or just spam TNT inside their base. They could also sneak in and destroy group A's beds while they aren't looking, then kill them, forcing them to spawn back at the spawn point, which would ideally be far away from their base.
Group A has a huge advantage. Collecting a few drops from dead monster will never match the output of several mob traps. And group A seems to have much superior defense systems, that would be hard to "sneak into". And the mob traps are always heavily protected, so its very unlikely that they could just break in and steal gunpowder.
- From what I have seen over the past few pages, there has been a lot of arguing about whether or not "Vanilla" is the way to go. I suppose I'll give my two cents on the matter.
In my opinion, Vanilla Minecraft will always be better than modded minecraft, simply because I am a purist when it comes to that sort of thing. I don't even use texture packs. Having to install some sort of modification on the game only proves a lack of human creativity and ingenuity. It also proves a lack of trustworthiness, that plagues Minecraft. It's a shame we can't simply have CTF games where a Diamond Block is a flag, because there will always be that noob on the enemy team who simply makes their own Diamond block, and starts a whole fiasco questioning who is in the wrong. Don't get me wrong, Arena battles, King of the Hill, Domination, Capture the Flag, and other styles of organized warfare are all things I preach the greatness of, all around Minecraft. I wholeheartedly support their existence on PvP servers, however I vehemently deny that they should be added to the vanilla game. They should be server held events, not mandatory. PvP in the wilderness should be unadulterated. If one doesn't want their base to be raided, they must simply hide it better. I hope this clears up my opinion on the matter. I've missed a large part of the discussion, so forgive me if I seem out of the loop [I am, at the moment].
- On the whole "Mushrooms V. Wheat" debate, I'm going to side with mushrooms. After a large amount of experience with mushroom farming in the PPU server [which you should ALL join, by the way...] it's come to my attention that growing mushrooms to make mushroom soup with far outweighs the benefit of growing wheat, for the main reason that Mushroom Soup heals more. To those who say it is impossible to eat during a fight... you're getting way too close to your opponent.
- In my opinion, restricting the size of the play area is a bad idea. The smaller the area, the more chaotic battles get, with less tactics necessary. Simply running back into an enemy base that is 200 blocks away from spawn takes no skill whatsoever.
- In terms of the Nether, this is what I have found through ONA's experience with it:
Traveling through the Nether, even short distances, is EXTREMELY annoying unless you are well equipped (with a pick that won't break, and food). The terrain in the Nether is also extremely erractic, and memorizing routes to base or portal locations can be a hassle if landmarks start being changed. However, investing in Nether transport is something I will HIGHLY recommend, because of the ease at which it allows one to travel long distances, and the secrecy it allows one to travel with. The Nether is a place shrouded in mystery, and full of hidden nooks and crannies. Camouflaging a base/portal location is easy, because the terrain never looks natural anyway. Building minecart tracks or bases under giant pools of lava is a great detterent, and is a great safety for your army. In general, the Nether has turned out to be a great success for ONA as a frontier of warfare. I'd like to hear from others, on THEIR experience with the SMP Nether.
- In terms of Mob Towers:
This tower took ONA less than one day to build. Then another day to cover in lava. It provides us with 1+ stacks of TNT per hour, and more arrows, string, bones, etc, than we will EVER need. It wasn't a hassle to build, and it is a create P cost. We've used it multiple times, across multiple servers, and have become increasingly good at building it. It's a standard 25x25 model from bedrock to the sky limit.
- In response to Sting_Auer's scenario on page 80:
Group B only has an advantage when Group A is not online to defend their base... since Group A is made of superior soldiers, they would be able to easily fend off the meager attempts of the split up group B. Group A does not NEED to ransack the bases of group B for resources, because they have a mob tower. Honestly, I think the war at this point would consist of group A slowly finding each of group B's small forts, and destroying them with TNT.
ALSO:
Everyone should join the Phoenix PvP University Server. Tell your friends and/or clanmates about it, and such. We're LIVE and chugging along at a nice pace :smile.gif:.
About Phoenix PvP, I think ONA is the bear with no equal. We'll need a wolf pack to rival it, then thing's will get interesting.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
Here's the issue on vanilla warfare: There is no engine pushing the war forward; no axel to turn the wheel.
I do understand that vanilla is the best, and most mods are unnecessary such as texture packs, weapon packs, airplanes, etc, but think about mods such as permissions. They are in most cases necessary. Otherwise, people would ruin the spawn and such. Like an axel, its a thin, uninvasive mod that solves a large problem. With permissions mod, you can protect a 50x50 area around the spawn so that people can get out safely.
The need for a very simple war mod is similar. There must be some goal of the war. A goal of "Ruin the enemies bases/ destroy them" results in a either a stalemate, or a hack and slash deathmatch. A stalemate as both sides can hide everything far from spawn underground, and a deathmatch when they run out of their hiding spots to fight. Neither of those support the goal of the art of war.
Lets look at a domination game in "Insert FPS here." You always have a direct goal: to capture that objective. Maybe you won't succeed, but you have something to aim for. To accomplish it, you customize your classes, strategize, etc.
Minecraft on the other hand, has something other games do not: An independently working physics system, in that not only that you can build things, but things happen on their own, and you can arrange those events in your favor, such as with mob grinders and tnt cannons. Other games have arbitrarily working physics: You shoot your gun, anybody in that line is hurt, and that's the end.
And that is why minecraft warfare is so intriguing. The only issue is that there is no direct objective. One simple well thought mod could put that there, the thing that you make your tnt cannons and siege plans for. Perhaps just one sponge that people can access the coordinates of. It would interfere not at all with the game, but it begin a fight over dominance.
Besides, its just content. Why does it matter whether its released by notch or the war community. ( And I don't expect notch to release anything war related soon. All he thinks there is to his game let alone cares about is building pretty houses, putting torches in caves, and mining diamonds.
On a closing note, let me remind you of that post by Hans Lemurson a while back which stated that war would simply be clubbing with stone swords. I believe that in pure vanilla war would be that, except with perhaps Diamond armor, bows, mushroom stew, and teams. Maybe once in a while a spy would enter the other clan, and TNT a base, but that would be it.
I agree with Matthew. Mods that add content ruin the game, but server mods that make permission levels are fine, even necessary, to keep people focused on PvP. As stated above, they can add building restrictions, but I believe that crafting restrictions would accomplish a lot as well. Like you stated above, someone will just craft a fake flag and cause arguments. But if you remove the ability of players to craft diamond blocks, you can play the game without worrying about cheaters.
I wasn't restricting it to permissions, I was using permissions as a comparison to a mod that gives an objective; an "Axel like" mod that does not interfere with anything, but is practically necessary.
- From what I have seen over the past few pages, there has been a lot of arguing about whether or not "Vanilla" is the way to go. I suppose I'll give my two cents on the matter.
Sorry man, its not 2 cents anymore,its a dollar now! Theres inflation soo...
- In terms of the Nether, this is what I have found through ONA's experience with it:
Traveling through the Nether, even short distances, is EXTREMELY annoying unless you are well equipped (with a pick that won't break, and food). The terrain in the Nether is also extremely erractic, and memorizing routes to base or portal locations can be a hassle if landmarks start being changed. However, investing in Nether transport is something I will HIGHLY recommend, because of the ease at which it allows one to travel long distances, and the secrecy it allows one to travel with. The Nether is a place shrouded in mystery, and full of hidden nooks and crannies. Camouflaging a base/portal location is easy, because the terrain never looks natural anyway. Building minecart tracks or bases under giant pools of lava is a great detterent, and is a great safety for your army. In general, the Nether has turned out to be a great success for ONA as a frontier of warfare. I'd like to hear from others, on THEIR experience with the SMP Nether.
I totally back this!^^^
Although the Nether is a good-for-almost-nothing wasteland with more creatures that want to blow you up, It is another front to fight on that can't be overlooked.Despite its sudden drops and giant sees of lava, it does multiply the time it takes to travel large distances, by foot, minecart, or tnt launcher. Also, it can be a powerful tool in other ways.
-Firstly, you could make traps using it. So you are out gathering resources or restocking a base somewhere, and you find a random portal,and you think "hey, there could be enemies in there!" So, you either go in by yourself or call in some other people and you all go in and, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH....You fall into a pit of lava!
-Secondly, though not really as necessary, you could use the vast lava lakes as a large source of lava. Then you can make more traps and obsidian in the regular world.
-Lastly, it is the ONLY source of netherrack and soul sand, very useful trap making materials.
I should mention to the people who don't get the concept of civilians, they are people that are unarmed that happen to be working or whatever on the server.
I agree with Echo, there needs to be a bigger objective to fight about. Also, a sponge objective is a good objective because it cant be naturally found or made.
I should mention to the people who don't get the concept of civilians, they are people that are unarmed that happen to be working or whatever on the server.
Virtually all organized wars will take place on PvP servers. Servers dedicated to fighting. Only people who want to fight would join these servers. So no, there are no civilians.
I mean people in an army that are not in full armor with a stack of arrows and a bow or a sword. People who are in their homes or outside getting wood or something.
Also, not everyone takes caution going into portals.
Speaking on traps, with that new pistons video out, we can now make automated kind of reusable, cheap death chambers by making rooms with lava that pours out onto unsespecting soldiers since pistons will probably act like sluice gates for lava and water. Think of all of possibilities! Walls that suddenly shoot out stairs and a door at the press of a hidden button, automatic cannons, and retractable lava paths!
This my be an idea, but a way to mine blocks as well as a way to make a huge cobblestone generator.
ok, first you need a bank or 3, however long, of pistons. You set them so they are lined up with a bank of some sort of immovable block. Create a cobble generator on each end of the banks. The area in between is unmined areas under ground.
The distance between the banks is how ever much. so like this:
=the bank of pistons with generators from the side
=unmined area
=unmobile blocks
-distance can be unlimited-
so the pistons push the cobble into the unmined area and then up at the benches, to an area where they can be mined. They could maybe be mined using a yet uninvented method using the pistons or mine it by hand.
That could be a little farfetched. A simpler use could be as a practice system for archers.
Virtually all organized wars will take place on PvP servers. Servers dedicated to fighting. Only people who want to fight would join these servers. So no, there are no civilians.
There are lots of different kinds of war. PvP servers is spontaneous war. It happens for no reason, and if you can hide and never have to fight in the first place, that's best. It's kind of phony, there's no reason to fight so people just hide in fear of ONA. Becomes Hide-n-seek. But more common is war when one clan invades another's server. In here, there are a lot of civilians.
Sometimes there are civilian, sometimes there aren't.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
Let's discuss Nether bases.
The Nether's inability to spawn hostile mobs in a small space in the dark would make it an ideal mushroom-farming area.
A Nether base needs, even more than an overworld one, a large food cache. All of this, with the exception of grilled pork, would need to be brought from the overworld. Mushroom soup is an exception-the mushrooms could be found in the Nether, but the reusable wooden bowls would have to be brought with.
Each Nether soldier should have at least two flints and steels on their person. No exceptions. This could be for re-lighting put-out portals, or used to light netherrack to serve as torches.
Portals should be made fairly frequently, to avoid being trapped in the Nether as well as for putting out fires legitimately by leaving. With each party of soldiers sent into the Nether, entrust the best with ten obsidian to build a portal, if necessary.
For the above mushroom farm, use a two-block-high netherrack quarry. This will prevent ghasts from spawning, allowing only neutral pigmen to spawn in it.
Send out scouting parties for soul sand and lightstone. Make them well-equipped-give them plentiful food to survive ghast attacks, and DON'T ATTACK PIGMEN!
Hey Valerius_Maximus is project art of war still running? I used to play with you guys until it went down. Really good job with the art of war by the way. I have read the original book and you follow the concepts put forth in it very well. My third time reading this actually. I got to hand it to you, you do know war in MC and have made a pretty comprehensive guide on it. Is your clan open to having another member cause I would be honoured to join your army and help with the waging of wars across the face of minecraft :biggrin.gif:
There are lots of different kinds of war. PvP servers is spontaneous war. It happens for no reason, and if you can hide and never have to fight in the first place, that's best. It's kind of phony, there's no reason to fight so people just hide in fear of ONA. Becomes Hide-n-seek. But more common is war when one clan invades another's server. In here, there are a lot of civilians.
Sometimes there are civilian, sometimes there aren't.
You can't just invade another's server. Most building/creative servers, the only server that will ever have a civilians, will have either permissions/whitelist mods or pvp turned off; most likely both.
Only people who want to fight will play on any server with pvp enabled. And that is the issue with the concept of having pure vanilla. It would become a game of hide and seek, so we need some sort of arbitrary objective, and it probably should be a mod.
Here is the issue on the argument about trust: It's not just that we cannot trust people, its too difficult to keep track of also. I'm sure at least one of you when you were a kid played pretend with your friends. You probably fought each other with superpowers and sooner or later you got into an argument because "The thunder strike was supposed to paralyze him" but "He has a shock shield which stops thunder attacks."
Although we are not playing with super powers in minecraft, that is the type of argument you can get into when you play with a trust based objective.
Think of a mod as simply a perfect robotic referee. It simply makes fair calls based on the rules. In the above example, it would know and calculate that the thunder strike has a base damage of 100, but the target's shock shield reduces its damage by 30%, which allows the target to be just alive.
No human, biased or not, can make calls that precise.
There is a similar issue with hand enforced rules. No X-rays or hacks is one of them, but that's one of the necessary few.
Rules such as "no pillaring" or "no pouring lava in enemy base" are not only hard to enforce, but hard for even an honest player to follow. It's like trying to walk through an imaginary hallway without touching the imaginary walls.
Its easier not to breach a solid wall as opposed to an imaginary one. Likewise, the only rules we should have to follow are the solid minecraft laws of physics, in which case there are no questions asked.
@Kwa Tang
Anybody who is mining or chopping trees on a war server will probably be smart enough to bring or even wear armor. You have plenty of inventory space for stacks of resources.
Although not all people are as cautious as Echo about going through portals, it doesn't mean that they are stupid enough to sprint right out of it, especially since its a suspicious portal in the first place. And what is the point of the trap if it is all that trouble for a single kill if you are lucky?
Clan A's base is on a mountain that has been cleared of trees and any obstructions(bluffs,outcrops,overhangs).
It has a few aimable and none aimable cannons built into it.It is water walled with lava on the inside, an auto fixing wall.
Clan B's base is a large obsidian fortress, a large hyperion cannon, and a large force of dogs. Also controls large strip mines surrounding the areas around the bases.
Clan C's base is in the middle of a large forest, intentionally very thick, stone walls filled with lava. The lava is supposed to flow out and burn the surrounding trees as a signal for attack as well as a hurdle for attackers. Has 360 degree cannon and a labyrinth of rooms under it to its vault.
What do you think will happen if any one of these clans does a frontal assault on anothers base? How do you think they will execute their assault.
As for clan B, you'll need a spy to crack this nut. Sabotage the cannon, kill the dogs (Ignite them), assassinate the generals, just generally murder their toys. When done playing with your food, take the sponge and run. If they have a habit of making this kind of base, it's a good idea to take prisoners if you can. High mercy level, once you're done. Low, at the start.
Finally, for clan C, get some rangers to hop on the forest canopy and wreck the base from the inside-out. A couple of assassins to wreck the cannon, steal information on the location of the sponge, and basically thoroughly wreck the place. When you're done/all your rangers die after freezing the wall into cobble, fire cannons into the place and send in foot soldiers. Leave nobody alive. Zero mercy.
A mod that makes civilians that for every enemy civilians you kill you get 10 points?
and for every civilians someone kills of yours, you lose 10 points?
or you could make it 1 instead of 10?
Group A has a huge advantage. Collecting a few drops from dead monster will never match the output of several mob traps. And group A seems to have much superior defense systems, that would be hard to "sneak into". And the mob traps are always heavily protected, so its very unlikely that they could just break in and steal gunpowder.
In my opinion, Vanilla Minecraft will always be better than modded minecraft, simply because I am a purist when it comes to that sort of thing. I don't even use texture packs. Having to install some sort of modification on the game only proves a lack of human creativity and ingenuity. It also proves a lack of trustworthiness, that plagues Minecraft. It's a shame we can't simply have CTF games where a Diamond Block is a flag, because there will always be that noob on the enemy team who simply makes their own Diamond block, and starts a whole fiasco questioning who is in the wrong. Don't get me wrong, Arena battles, King of the Hill, Domination, Capture the Flag, and other styles of organized warfare are all things I preach the greatness of, all around Minecraft. I wholeheartedly support their existence on PvP servers, however I vehemently deny that they should be added to the vanilla game. They should be server held events, not mandatory. PvP in the wilderness should be unadulterated. If one doesn't want their base to be raided, they must simply hide it better. I hope this clears up my opinion on the matter. I've missed a large part of the discussion, so forgive me if I seem out of the loop [I am, at the moment].
- On the whole "Mushrooms V. Wheat" debate, I'm going to side with mushrooms. After a large amount of experience with mushroom farming in the PPU server [which you should ALL join, by the way...] it's come to my attention that growing mushrooms to make mushroom soup with far outweighs the benefit of growing wheat, for the main reason that Mushroom Soup heals more. To those who say it is impossible to eat during a fight... you're getting way too close to your opponent.
- In my opinion, restricting the size of the play area is a bad idea. The smaller the area, the more chaotic battles get, with less tactics necessary. Simply running back into an enemy base that is 200 blocks away from spawn takes no skill whatsoever.
- In terms of the Nether, this is what I have found through ONA's experience with it:
Traveling through the Nether, even short distances, is EXTREMELY annoying unless you are well equipped (with a pick that won't break, and food). The terrain in the Nether is also extremely erractic, and memorizing routes to base or portal locations can be a hassle if landmarks start being changed. However, investing in Nether transport is something I will HIGHLY recommend, because of the ease at which it allows one to travel long distances, and the secrecy it allows one to travel with. The Nether is a place shrouded in mystery, and full of hidden nooks and crannies. Camouflaging a base/portal location is easy, because the terrain never looks natural anyway. Building minecart tracks or bases under giant pools of lava is a great detterent, and is a great safety for your army. In general, the Nether has turned out to be a great success for ONA as a frontier of warfare. I'd like to hear from others, on THEIR experience with the SMP Nether.
- In terms of Mob Towers:
This tower took ONA less than one day to build. Then another day to cover in lava. It provides us with 1+ stacks of TNT per hour, and more arrows, string, bones, etc, than we will EVER need. It wasn't a hassle to build, and it is a create P cost. We've used it multiple times, across multiple servers, and have become increasingly good at building it. It's a standard 25x25 model from bedrock to the sky limit.
- In response to Sting_Auer's scenario on page 80:
Group B only has an advantage when Group A is not online to defend their base... since Group A is made of superior soldiers, they would be able to easily fend off the meager attempts of the split up group B. Group A does not NEED to ransack the bases of group B for resources, because they have a mob tower. Honestly, I think the war at this point would consist of group A slowly finding each of group B's small forts, and destroying them with TNT.
ALSO:
Everyone should join the Phoenix PvP University Server. Tell your friends and/or clanmates about it, and such. We're LIVE and chugging along at a nice pace :smile.gif:.
Here's the issue on vanilla warfare: There is no engine pushing the war forward; no axel to turn the wheel.
I do understand that vanilla is the best, and most mods are unnecessary such as texture packs, weapon packs, airplanes, etc, but think about mods such as permissions. They are in most cases necessary. Otherwise, people would ruin the spawn and such. Like an axel, its a thin, uninvasive mod that solves a large problem. With permissions mod, you can protect a 50x50 area around the spawn so that people can get out safely.
The need for a very simple war mod is similar. There must be some goal of the war. A goal of "Ruin the enemies bases/ destroy them" results in a either a stalemate, or a hack and slash deathmatch. A stalemate as both sides can hide everything far from spawn underground, and a deathmatch when they run out of their hiding spots to fight. Neither of those support the goal of the art of war.
Lets look at a domination game in "Insert FPS here." You always have a direct goal: to capture that objective. Maybe you won't succeed, but you have something to aim for. To accomplish it, you customize your classes, strategize, etc.
Minecraft on the other hand, has something other games do not: An independently working physics system, in that not only that you can build things, but things happen on their own, and you can arrange those events in your favor, such as with mob grinders and tnt cannons. Other games have arbitrarily working physics: You shoot your gun, anybody in that line is hurt, and that's the end.
And that is why minecraft warfare is so intriguing. The only issue is that there is no direct objective. One simple well thought mod could put that there, the thing that you make your tnt cannons and siege plans for. Perhaps just one sponge that people can access the coordinates of. It would interfere not at all with the game, but it begin a fight over dominance.
Besides, its just content. Why does it matter whether its released by notch or the war community. ( And I don't expect notch to release anything war related soon. All he thinks there is to his game let alone cares about is building pretty houses, putting torches in caves, and mining diamonds.
On a closing note, let me remind you of that post by Hans Lemurson a while back which stated that war would simply be clubbing with stone swords. I believe that in pure vanilla war would be that, except with perhaps Diamond armor, bows, mushroom stew, and teams. Maybe once in a while a spy would enter the other clan, and TNT a base, but that would be it.
Sorry man, its not 2 cents anymore,its a dollar now! Theres inflation soo...
I totally back this!^^^
Although the Nether is a good-for-almost-nothing wasteland with more creatures that want to blow you up, It is another front to fight on that can't be overlooked.Despite its sudden drops and giant sees of lava, it does multiply the time it takes to travel large distances, by foot, minecart, or tnt launcher. Also, it can be a powerful tool in other ways.
-Firstly, you could make traps using it. So you are out gathering resources or restocking a base somewhere, and you find a random portal,and you think "hey, there could be enemies in there!" So, you either go in by yourself or call in some other people and you all go in and, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH....You fall into a pit of lava!
-Secondly, though not really as necessary, you could use the vast lava lakes as a large source of lava. Then you can make more traps and obsidian in the regular world.
-Lastly, it is the ONLY source of netherrack and soul sand, very useful trap making materials.
I should mention to the people who don't get the concept of civilians, they are people that are unarmed that happen to be working or whatever on the server.
I agree with Echo, there needs to be a bigger objective to fight about. Also, a sponge objective is a good objective because it cant be naturally found or made.
Virtually all organized wars will take place on PvP servers. Servers dedicated to fighting. Only people who want to fight would join these servers. So no, there are no civilians.
Also, not everyone takes caution going into portals.
Speaking on traps, with that new pistons video out, we can now make automated kind of reusable, cheap death chambers by making rooms with lava that pours out onto unsespecting soldiers since pistons will probably act like sluice gates for lava and water. Think of all of possibilities! Walls that suddenly shoot out stairs and a door at the press of a hidden button, automatic cannons, and retractable lava paths!
This my be an idea, but a way to mine blocks as well as a way to make a huge cobblestone generator.
ok, first you need a bank or 3, however long, of pistons. You set them so they are lined up with a bank of some sort of immovable block. Create a cobble generator on each end of the banks. The area in between is unmined areas under ground.
The distance between the banks is how ever much. so like this:
=the bank of pistons with generators from the side
=unmined area
=unmobile blocks
-distance can be unlimited-
so the pistons push the cobble into the unmined area and then up at the benches, to an area where they can be mined. They could maybe be mined using a yet uninvented method using the pistons or mine it by hand.
That could be a little farfetched. A simpler use could be as a practice system for archers.
There are lots of different kinds of war. PvP servers is spontaneous war. It happens for no reason, and if you can hide and never have to fight in the first place, that's best. It's kind of phony, there's no reason to fight so people just hide in fear of ONA. Becomes Hide-n-seek. But more common is war when one clan invades another's server. In here, there are a lot of civilians.
Sometimes there are civilian, sometimes there aren't.
The Nether's inability to spawn hostile mobs in a small space in the dark would make it an ideal mushroom-farming area.
A Nether base needs, even more than an overworld one, a large food cache. All of this, with the exception of grilled pork, would need to be brought from the overworld. Mushroom soup is an exception-the mushrooms could be found in the Nether, but the reusable wooden bowls would have to be brought with.
Each Nether soldier should have at least two flints and steels on their person. No exceptions. This could be for re-lighting put-out portals, or used to light netherrack to serve as torches.
Portals should be made fairly frequently, to avoid being trapped in the Nether as well as for putting out fires legitimately by leaving. With each party of soldiers sent into the Nether, entrust the best with ten obsidian to build a portal, if necessary.
For the above mushroom farm, use a two-block-high netherrack quarry. This will prevent ghasts from spawning, allowing only neutral pigmen to spawn in it.
Send out scouting parties for soul sand and lightstone. Make them well-equipped-give them plentiful food to survive ghast attacks, and DON'T ATTACK PIGMEN!
You can't just invade another's server. Most building/creative servers, the only server that will ever have a civilians, will have either permissions/whitelist mods or pvp turned off; most likely both.
Only people who want to fight will play on any server with pvp enabled. And that is the issue with the concept of having pure vanilla. It would become a game of hide and seek, so we need some sort of arbitrary objective, and it probably should be a mod.
Here is the issue on the argument about trust: It's not just that we cannot trust people, its too difficult to keep track of also. I'm sure at least one of you when you were a kid played pretend with your friends. You probably fought each other with superpowers and sooner or later you got into an argument because "The thunder strike was supposed to paralyze him" but "He has a shock shield which stops thunder attacks."
Although we are not playing with super powers in minecraft, that is the type of argument you can get into when you play with a trust based objective.
Think of a mod as simply a perfect robotic referee. It simply makes fair calls based on the rules. In the above example, it would know and calculate that the thunder strike has a base damage of 100, but the target's shock shield reduces its damage by 30%, which allows the target to be just alive.
No human, biased or not, can make calls that precise.
There is a similar issue with hand enforced rules. No X-rays or hacks is one of them, but that's one of the necessary few.
Rules such as "no pillaring" or "no pouring lava in enemy base" are not only hard to enforce, but hard for even an honest player to follow. It's like trying to walk through an imaginary hallway without touching the imaginary walls.
Its easier not to breach a solid wall as opposed to an imaginary one. Likewise, the only rules we should have to follow are the solid minecraft laws of physics, in which case there are no questions asked.
@Kwa Tang
Anybody who is mining or chopping trees on a war server will probably be smart enough to bring or even wear armor. You have plenty of inventory space for stacks of resources.
Although not all people are as cautious as Echo about going through portals, it doesn't mean that they are stupid enough to sprint right out of it, especially since its a suspicious portal in the first place. And what is the point of the trap if it is all that trouble for a single kill if you are lucky?