ok guys, Im going to be on for a few hours. CarnageCraft is now free build. pm me and I will get you the ip. its a brand new server so some suggestions on a spawn area would be appreciated.
aMenace wrote :
> Guilty of skim reading here but... what's to stop a single person
> tunnelling into someone elses base and just destroying everything? Or
> perhaps just stealing resources and then covering their exit?
Hiding things sneakily prevents this. But there's nothing stopping them I suppose, once a spy discovers the location of a base.
You must protect your resources with all your might!
All warfare is based on deception. You must know how to utilize the veil of stealth.
@Sento Fernner
Well, if you can come up with some innovative trap or sabotage/stealth technique that don't utilize glitches, then feel free to post them up here, and the whole of us will critique them, and you might even make it into the OP :biggrin.gif:
Otherwise I don't have anything specific I could ask of you at the moment...
DiEvAl wrote :
> I was working on high-speed two-wired comunication between bases. In
> redstone simulator it works, but in real minecraft world it doesn't. After
> some debugging, I found that
> pulse-genarators
> A and B are not working (Windows XP; Minecraft Alpha v.1.2.2; tiny and
> small rendering distances; 2 blocks above top layer of adminium; both day
> and night). Should I continue making it in simulator until pulse-genarators
> will work, or make it three times slower and build it in minecraft?
If its too far away the redstone won't work because its still in the "chunk" or blocks that haven't
been loaded yet. Not sure if thats your problem, but it could be.
A way to increase realism and tactical fun. In the game mode, only allow chat within a certain distance. That way, msgs have to be carried otherwise. (external programs would be cheating of course). Of course, that's making a rule around inventions, not making inventions around the rule...
And also, in the TNT-driven falling sand trap, just replace the torches with cloth or another weak block.
BURIED TREASURE!!! Genius, vmax, I don't know how you do it.
reflect25 wrote :
>
> If its too far away the redstone won't work because its still in the
> "chunk" or blocks that haven't
> been loaded yet. Not sure if thats your problem, but it could be.
I was only 0 or 1 chunk away from pulse-generator.
aMenace wrote :
> Guilty of skim reading here but... what's to stop a single person
> tunnelling into someone elses base and just destroying everything? Or
> perhaps just stealing resources and then covering their exit?
I am not 100% sure of this, but I do believe that when MP is fully implemented, there will be limitations on where people can directly build or remove blocks. Each player will have a "flag" which will be planted, and it will give them access to build/destroy within a certain area, and they can give permissions to others so that others can help them build, or you could have a large group of people with flags bordering one another, with permissions to all of those people so a large group of people could "own" a large plot of land.
Again, I'm not positive that this is how MP will work, but I have heard mention of it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Spark becomes a flame.
Flame becomes a fire.
Forge a blade to slay the stranger.
Take whatever we desire.
Move by will alone.
aMenace wrote :
> Guilty of skim reading here but... what's to stop a single person
> tunnelling into someone elses base and just destroying everything? Or
> perhaps just stealing resources and then covering their exit?
Theoretically? Nothing. But a well-trained builder can take up much less time building and hiding said structure and/or chest than the searcher will spend looking for said ingredients.
Besides, if you know how the human psyche works, you can almost literally make chests that simply cannot be found without completely demolishing a plot of land all the way down to adminium.
this is very interesting. ive never thought of competitive minecraft but this has changed that. i think that in clan wars or even tournaments lave would probabably be banned
A necessary read in real life, but if when pvp comes there are mass scale wars players will most likely find a number of variables in which battles are most easily and decisively won. As with all video games there are only a set amount of elements and situations that can arise. I will say though, I dig how you're "over doing it" with this 16bit game, taking things too seriously is what I'm all about. Have you considered starting a war-games server?
Should there be wars in Minecraft, I don't think they will be full out battles. Everyone would die ridiculously fast, and planning wouldn't decide the outcome, as everyone could go berserk.
I think it would end up much like trench warfare, like WW1, with TNT cannon siege on the other line. there would be half block arrow slits, and anyone foolish enough to run into the no man's land would be shot down quickly.
Then you would have some covert operations, discreet tunnels bringing in supplies from a mob trap that is being built elsewhere, or a hidden mine. There would also be miners tunnelling to try to find enemy mines and mob traps, and sabotage them. The ultimate goal is to get into the enemy trench, and backstab everyone you see, then flood the place with lava.
This is of course assuming Notch doesn't add in a viable way of tanking hits. Diamond armour is really expensive, but then again, the mines would eventually supply enough to outfit a couple of tankers, which would lead to a major push of the line.
This is how I think warfare will end up as, and I would prefer this to battles where you respawn every 30 seconds. Trench warfare takes more planning, tactics would be the deciding factor.
After finish reading through the whole thread. I must say Bravo to your opening post as well as the ideas suggested by other players. I'd like to add my own if you don't mind.
I was thinking of a neutral zone/city/the spawn, where players cannot attack each other and commerce can carry on, assuming this is a Role-Playing server. Should a soldier die, he will simply spawn there and walk back to his home town or fortress. Sure you don't have consequences, at least you think there isn't. But while a soldier is walking back to his base or battlefield, he is wasting time in assisting his allies. There's already a consequence.
As for traps coming into place, I have one of my own, this is a variation of the TNT land mine but it can kill more players at once should they not be careful.
This works best if you add it to your mountain ambush plan. The snow picture shows an aerial view while the bottom shows a profile view. The torch can be replaced by other types of block that will hold up snow. Or you can just put tnt there which will mean that if 1 soldier trips the trap, the whole squad will go down. The best practical use for this is to lay it down where you suspect the enemy will run if they were retreating after an assault. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh18 ... n/Trap.jpg
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stercus accidit
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
@DiEvAl
I'm not as skilled as you when it comes to redstone... so I have no idea what a pulse generator is... so I won't be of much use in that regard XD
@http404error
Well, I believe it was first smurfsahoy, and then SunTzu himself that enlightened me to the most simple fact of warfare: Information and stealth take priority over all things, for they turn the tides of the battle.
@EtherImp
You're right there might be different game modes, but once these different game modes are released, each mode will be defined by its own distinct style of warfare.
Capture the flag games would be based on holding land with huge impenetrable castles
Minecraft as it is now will be based off of hiding resources and stealthily stealing your opponents resources using spy tactics
Minecraft in the future could be based off of who has the most cowhide and bacon XD
@Spino
I don't think lava would be banned in wars...
@Carlosbear
I think you're partially right, but we have no true way to know yet, until the wars begin.
Also, there is a server I'm helping to start up called "CarnageCraft" which will be based on war. I'll also be hosting my own server later on for my clan to war in.
Just sign up on the Orsa Novus Aevum forums if you're interested :biggrin.gif:
@Availn
Trench warfare is still seen as one of the least viable types of warfare in minecraft... as it neither helps you to hold ground, nor protects your resources by hiding them. It simply locks you up in a small trenched in area, waiting to be killed.
Seige operations, like I stated before, would be viable in a capture the flag mode, where land becomes more valuable than resources.
You're much safer, at the moment in this style of alpha smp, hiding your base and valuables deep underground where nobody should be able to find them without sufficient information as to their location.
@Scottzar
The nether is still pretty buggy... and in SMP it's probably even buggier... I don't think the Nether will be a viable strategy to utilize for a while... for that reason it's low priority on my list.
Can you even enter the nether in SMP? I thought it separated the nether and the normal plane into two different worlds?
@Peekayer
Thanks for the recognition :smile.gif:
In CarnageCraft wer're trying to create something like a neutral spawn zone... but it will be tough since people are still able to build there... I think. A lot of things might change.
Perhaps if the normal minecraft really isn't suited for warfare, due to simple things like not spawning in a neutral zone... somebody could create a war mod... but that is a last resort and doesn't REALLY seem necessary...
As for your suggestion I don't really understand the diagram... but that might just be my morning dumbness XD
@Will_Holmes
I agree that people won't take a crazy approach to minecraft warfare if they know what's good for them with all these traps running around. Losing your inventory is a huge aspect of the game I haven't yet covered in the OP... perhaps I should so that people understand how dire it is to remain alive as long as possible, and avoid suicide tactics.
Sieging will become viable in capture the flag, but in the current set up I believe that stealh and hiding resources is still the best defense.
@Everyone
Thanks for being so active in the topic, this is getting to be a lot of fun, keep working hard :smile.gif:
A bucket of lava can be used thusly:
In a defeat, the last soldiers might pour out lava to take the enemy with them, and prevent the enemy from salvaging anything here.
A Spy equipped with a few buckets of lava could cause tremendous havoc in enemy bases.
Suicide bombers, with nothing but a bucket of lava, maybe some TnT, could cause huge damage to the enemy forces.
Also, you could make trap, using a door and a pressure plate, to make lava hit people in tunnels.
A bucket of water means:
Removing all the block destruction from TnT, if used correctly. Place water around vital blocks, like chests and thus.
It means immediately pushing the naval attackers away, foiling their TnT plot.
It means flooding enemy tunnels, drastically increasing the time they must use in it, possibly even drowning them.
An Empty bucket means partial immunity to water and lava based traps. Though a clever general will, of course, place the source block far from the location of the trap to prevent this.
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Quote from Dark_Petal »
Why, let's flame each other over something as trivial as the footsteps of a walking penis.
There has been ppl here that say minecraf war should be like capure the flag, deathmatch or somethign scenario based. id like it more to be real war that lastes long and involves REAL strategy. I dont want it to be CoD or TF2 or something like that. As for me the reason i like minecraft is planning carefully my every move and and see after some time that i hawe risen to be king of my island ower creepers, zombies and spiders. I want to feel same thing in multiplayer, to know that i hawe defeated my enemy, but in same time hoping them to prove me wrong. To see that my teams main attck failed, but only to lure enemy out of the fortress so saboteers could go do their job.
I want that there will be war and sometimes there will be peace, i want that there will be loss and victory, i want there to be good times and bad times. I want minecraf to be epic as it deserves to be.
I want deep strategy, not CoD like runnig and gunning until death :tongue.gif:
I hope someone agrees
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[Diamond] [Diamond]
Many good things come from Sweden, like minecraft and.... umm.... did i alredy say minecraft?
if u put redstone in jukebox, will it play redzone?
Munkki100 wrote :
> There has been ppl here that say minecraf war should be like capure the
> flag, deathmatch or somethign scenario based. id like it more to be real
> war that lastes long and involves REAL strategy. I dont want it to be CoD
> or TF2 or something like that. As for me the reason i like minecraft is
> planning carefully my every move and and see after some time that i hawe
> risen to be king of my island ower creepers, zombies and spiders. I want to
> feel same thing in multiplayer, to know that i hawe defeated my enemy, but
> in same time hoping them to prove me wrong. To see that my teams main attck
> failed, but only to lure enemy out of the fortress so saboteers could go do
> their job.
>
> I want that there will be war and sometimes there will be peace, i want
> that there will be loss and victory, i want there to be good times and bad
> times. I want minecraf to be epic as it deserves to be.
>
> I want deep strategy, not CoD like runnig and gunning until death :tongue.gif:
>
> I hope someone agrees
I agree.
But what people have been saying is not that that is how it should be, but how it is going to be. Because real war has a motive, and that motive does not exist in minecraft as of yet,
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Dark_Petal »
Why, let's flame each other over something as trivial as the footsteps of a walking penis.
Munkki100 wrote :
> There has been ppl here that say minecraf war should be like capure the
> flag, deathmatch or somethign scenario based. id like it more to be real
> war that lastes long and involves REAL strategy. I dont want it to be CoD
> or TF2 or something like that. As for me the reason i like minecraft is
> planning carefully my every move and and see after some time that i hawe
> risen to be king of my island ower creepers, zombies and spiders. I want to
> feel same thing in multiplayer, to know that i hawe defeated my enemy, but
> in same time hoping them to prove me wrong. To see that my teams main attck
> failed, but only to lure enemy out of the fortress so saboteers could go do
> their job.
>
> I want that there will be war and sometimes there will be peace, i want
> that there will be loss and victory, i want there to be good times and bad
> times. I want minecraf to be epic as it deserves to be.
>
> I want deep strategy, not CoD like runnig and gunning until death :tongue.gif:
>
> I hope someone agrees
By CTF, we (at least I) mean as in a command post style CTF, as in Battlefield Style, not as in COD style.
Valerius, if you've downloaded the training map that G33k(I think) added, the first part is rows of lava, I figured you can try that technique, only making it deeper so its sort of like a pit. Then fill it with snow or use some sort of trigger mechanism to make them fall. If it's placed in the way of their retreat, they won't be paying attention to it so we can just leave it uncovered.
And if its a war based on resources, we can add borders via a plugin as my server is using.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
stercus accidit
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
> Guilty of skim reading here but... what's to stop a single person
> tunnelling into someone elses base and just destroying everything? Or
> perhaps just stealing resources and then covering their exit?
Hiding things sneakily prevents this. But there's nothing stopping them I suppose, once a spy discovers the location of a base.
You must protect your resources with all your might!
All warfare is based on deception. You must know how to utilize the veil of stealth.
@Sento Fernner
Well, if you can come up with some innovative trap or sabotage/stealth technique that don't utilize glitches, then feel free to post them up here, and the whole of us will critique them, and you might even make it into the OP :biggrin.gif:
Otherwise I don't have anything specific I could ask of you at the moment...
@Javelin
ROCK ON!
> I was working on high-speed two-wired comunication between bases. In
> redstone simulator it works, but in real minecraft world it doesn't. After
> some debugging, I found that
> pulse-genarators
> A and B are not working (Windows XP; Minecraft Alpha v.1.2.2; tiny and
> small rendering distances; 2 blocks above top layer of adminium; both day
> and night). Should I continue making it in simulator until pulse-genarators
> will work, or make it three times slower and build it in minecraft?
If its too far away the redstone won't work because its still in the "chunk" or blocks that haven't
been loaded yet. Not sure if thats your problem, but it could be.
And also, in the TNT-driven falling sand trap, just replace the torches with cloth or another weak block.
BURIED TREASURE!!! Genius, vmax, I don't know how you do it.
>
> If its too far away the redstone won't work because its still in the
> "chunk" or blocks that haven't
> been loaded yet. Not sure if thats your problem, but it could be.
I was only 0 or 1 chunk away from pulse-generator.
> Guilty of skim reading here but... what's to stop a single person
> tunnelling into someone elses base and just destroying everything? Or
> perhaps just stealing resources and then covering their exit?
I am not 100% sure of this, but I do believe that when MP is fully implemented, there will be limitations on where people can directly build or remove blocks. Each player will have a "flag" which will be planted, and it will give them access to build/destroy within a certain area, and they can give permissions to others so that others can help them build, or you could have a large group of people with flags bordering one another, with permissions to all of those people so a large group of people could "own" a large plot of land.
Again, I'm not positive that this is how MP will work, but I have heard mention of it.
Flame becomes a fire.
Forge a blade to slay the stranger.
Take whatever we desire.
Move by will alone.
> Guilty of skim reading here but... what's to stop a single person
> tunnelling into someone elses base and just destroying everything? Or
> perhaps just stealing resources and then covering their exit?
Theoretically? Nothing. But a well-trained builder can take up much less time building and hiding said structure and/or chest than the searcher will spend looking for said ingredients.
Besides, if you know how the human psyche works, you can almost literally make chests that simply cannot be found without completely demolishing a plot of land all the way down to adminium.
I think it would end up much like trench warfare, like WW1, with TNT cannon siege on the other line. there would be half block arrow slits, and anyone foolish enough to run into the no man's land would be shot down quickly.
Then you would have some covert operations, discreet tunnels bringing in supplies from a mob trap that is being built elsewhere, or a hidden mine. There would also be miners tunnelling to try to find enemy mines and mob traps, and sabotage them. The ultimate goal is to get into the enemy trench, and backstab everyone you see, then flood the place with lava.
This is of course assuming Notch doesn't add in a viable way of tanking hits. Diamond armour is really expensive, but then again, the mines would eventually supply enough to outfit a couple of tankers, which would lead to a major push of the line.
This is how I think warfare will end up as, and I would prefer this to battles where you respawn every 30 seconds. Trench warfare takes more planning, tactics would be the deciding factor.
The New Boat Elevator
Simple Drowning Trap
Complex Drowning Trap
Note Blocks - The Blue Danube
Minecart Rider Detection System
I was thinking of a neutral zone/city/the spawn, where players cannot attack each other and commerce can carry on, assuming this is a Role-Playing server. Should a soldier die, he will simply spawn there and walk back to his home town or fortress. Sure you don't have consequences, at least you think there isn't. But while a soldier is walking back to his base or battlefield, he is wasting time in assisting his allies. There's already a consequence.
As for traps coming into place, I have one of my own, this is a variation of the TNT land mine but it can kill more players at once should they not be careful.
This works best if you add it to your mountain ambush plan. The snow picture shows an aerial view while the bottom shows a profile view. The torch can be replaced by other types of block that will hold up snow. Or you can just put tnt there which will mean that if 1 soldier trips the trap, the whole squad will go down. The best practical use for this is to lay it down where you suspect the enemy will run if they were retreating after an assault.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh18 ... n/Trap.jpg
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
@DiEvAl
I'm not as skilled as you when it comes to redstone... so I have no idea what a pulse generator is... so I won't be of much use in that regard XD
@http404error
Well, I believe it was first smurfsahoy, and then SunTzu himself that enlightened me to the most simple fact of warfare: Information and stealth take priority over all things, for they turn the tides of the battle.
@EtherImp
You're right there might be different game modes, but once these different game modes are released, each mode will be defined by its own distinct style of warfare.
Capture the flag games would be based on holding land with huge impenetrable castles
Minecraft as it is now will be based off of hiding resources and stealthily stealing your opponents resources using spy tactics
Minecraft in the future could be based off of who has the most cowhide and bacon XD
@Spino
I don't think lava would be banned in wars...
@Carlosbear
I think you're partially right, but we have no true way to know yet, until the wars begin.
Also, there is a server I'm helping to start up called "CarnageCraft" which will be based on war. I'll also be hosting my own server later on for my clan to war in.
Just sign up on the Orsa Novus Aevum forums if you're interested :biggrin.gif:
@Availn
Trench warfare is still seen as one of the least viable types of warfare in minecraft... as it neither helps you to hold ground, nor protects your resources by hiding them. It simply locks you up in a small trenched in area, waiting to be killed.
Seige operations, like I stated before, would be viable in a capture the flag mode, where land becomes more valuable than resources.
You're much safer, at the moment in this style of alpha smp, hiding your base and valuables deep underground where nobody should be able to find them without sufficient information as to their location.
@Scottzar
The nether is still pretty buggy... and in SMP it's probably even buggier... I don't think the Nether will be a viable strategy to utilize for a while... for that reason it's low priority on my list.
Can you even enter the nether in SMP? I thought it separated the nether and the normal plane into two different worlds?
@Peekayer
Thanks for the recognition :smile.gif:
In CarnageCraft wer're trying to create something like a neutral spawn zone... but it will be tough since people are still able to build there... I think. A lot of things might change.
Perhaps if the normal minecraft really isn't suited for warfare, due to simple things like not spawning in a neutral zone... somebody could create a war mod... but that is a last resort and doesn't REALLY seem necessary...
As for your suggestion I don't really understand the diagram... but that might just be my morning dumbness XD
@Will_Holmes
I agree that people won't take a crazy approach to minecraft warfare if they know what's good for them with all these traps running around. Losing your inventory is a huge aspect of the game I haven't yet covered in the OP... perhaps I should so that people understand how dire it is to remain alive as long as possible, and avoid suicide tactics.
Sieging will become viable in capture the flag, but in the current set up I believe that stealh and hiding resources is still the best defense.
@Everyone
Thanks for being so active in the topic, this is getting to be a lot of fun, keep working hard :smile.gif:
Seriously, buckets are awesome.
A bucket of lava can be used thusly:
In a defeat, the last soldiers might pour out lava to take the enemy with them, and prevent the enemy from salvaging anything here.
A Spy equipped with a few buckets of lava could cause tremendous havoc in enemy bases.
Suicide bombers, with nothing but a bucket of lava, maybe some TnT, could cause huge damage to the enemy forces.
Also, you could make trap, using a door and a pressure plate, to make lava hit people in tunnels.
A bucket of water means:
Removing all the block destruction from TnT, if used correctly. Place water around vital blocks, like chests and thus.
It means immediately pushing the naval attackers away, foiling their TnT plot.
It means flooding enemy tunnels, drastically increasing the time they must use in it, possibly even drowning them.
An Empty bucket means partial immunity to water and lava based traps. Though a clever general will, of course, place the source block far from the location of the trap to prevent this.
I want that there will be war and sometimes there will be peace, i want that there will be loss and victory, i want there to be good times and bad times. I want minecraf to be epic as it deserves to be.
I want deep strategy, not CoD like runnig and gunning until death :tongue.gif:
I hope someone agrees
Many good things come from Sweden, like minecraft and.... umm.... did i alredy say minecraft?
if u put redstone in jukebox, will it play redzone?
> There has been ppl here that say minecraf war should be like capure the
> flag, deathmatch or somethign scenario based. id like it more to be real
> war that lastes long and involves REAL strategy. I dont want it to be CoD
> or TF2 or something like that. As for me the reason i like minecraft is
> planning carefully my every move and and see after some time that i hawe
> risen to be king of my island ower creepers, zombies and spiders. I want to
> feel same thing in multiplayer, to know that i hawe defeated my enemy, but
> in same time hoping them to prove me wrong. To see that my teams main attck
> failed, but only to lure enemy out of the fortress so saboteers could go do
> their job.
>
> I want that there will be war and sometimes there will be peace, i want
> that there will be loss and victory, i want there to be good times and bad
> times. I want minecraf to be epic as it deserves to be.
>
> I want deep strategy, not CoD like runnig and gunning until death :tongue.gif:
>
> I hope someone agrees
I agree.
But what people have been saying is not that that is how it should be, but how it is going to be. Because real war has a motive, and that motive does not exist in minecraft as of yet,
> There has been ppl here that say minecraf war should be like capure the
> flag, deathmatch or somethign scenario based. id like it more to be real
> war that lastes long and involves REAL strategy. I dont want it to be CoD
> or TF2 or something like that. As for me the reason i like minecraft is
> planning carefully my every move and and see after some time that i hawe
> risen to be king of my island ower creepers, zombies and spiders. I want to
> feel same thing in multiplayer, to know that i hawe defeated my enemy, but
> in same time hoping them to prove me wrong. To see that my teams main attck
> failed, but only to lure enemy out of the fortress so saboteers could go do
> their job.
>
> I want that there will be war and sometimes there will be peace, i want
> that there will be loss and victory, i want there to be good times and bad
> times. I want minecraf to be epic as it deserves to be.
>
> I want deep strategy, not CoD like runnig and gunning until death :tongue.gif:
>
> I hope someone agrees
By CTF, we (at least I) mean as in a command post style CTF, as in Battlefield Style, not as in COD style.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=74568&start=210
And if its a war based on resources, we can add borders via a plugin as my server is using.
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.