ah now i see. but isnt this a base for a quick night or two? i dont think its really worth getting the lava for cobble, when you could mine some. Also, when your in the base, can u even close it up? Unless you in bed the hatch would hit your head, and even then you couldnt replace the dirt.
Also, about the cannons. I just found this video that might make cannons viable for defense, seeing as it can be aimed somewhat.
Listen bro, we've been over this. There are highly adaptable cannons that take 5 seconds to build and have 360 aim, and quite a bit of distance. There are also kinds that have 150 block distance, even some ones with 360 aim. Cannons are vital in any Attack/Defend castle or open field battle.
@The amazing little base Adeo made, it is amazing and should probably be used if you're ever planning on traveling through an area repeatedly. It has everything you would ever need in one tiny space, invisible.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
Just wanted to point out, assuming you are using this base to spy or snipe or whatever, and the main army has a large spawn tower, you could effectively cover up the grass using bonemeal from the tower.
Anyways, a new topic would be good, so how would pistons(mind that they won't be called pistons), regular and sticky, affect how we battle?
I believe it would be easier to make short range, compact cannons using 2 pistons and a little redstone.Keep in mind, we must assume it will be similar to the pistons mod and will probably be changed up.
Using one piston below a block of tnt and then another suspended higher up, wired to light the tnt, throw the lit tnt up, and then hit it with the other piston to shoot it at x speed.So i must assume you could alter trajectory by changing timing and changing the distance between the bottom, launching piston and the upper, throwing piston.
Since I am assuming off of the mod, you could test it under these sorts of settings. I dont really watch a lot of mods, so i wouldnt know if this was ever done, but im pretty sure it has.
And if i am speaking totally out of my **** and am wasting thread space, forgive me.
Listen bro, we've been over this. There are highly adaptable cannons that take 5 seconds to build and have 360 aim, and quite a bit of distance. There are also kinds that have 150 block distance, even some ones with 360 aim. Cannons are vital in any Attack/Defend castle or open field battle.
@The amazing little base Adeo made, it is amazing and should probably be used if you're ever planning on traveling through an area repeatedly. It has everything you would ever need in one tiny space, invisible.
sorry, but i havent read those. When i searched for aimable cannons this was all that came up.
Grass not regrowing is a BAD thing. It gives away that someone has dug in the area, and can be suspicious.
Grass under a log block doesn't ever regrow - and even dies off. So, both at terrain generation and during gameplay, tree trunks have dirt under them, not grass. So an enemy won't see anything suspicious about a square of dirt under a log block - that's the way it always is. And a log block can be mined and replaced without leaving any evidence. At least that's the theory.
Just wanted to point out, assuming you are using this base to spy or snipe or whatever, and the main army has a large spawn tower, you could effectively cover up the grass using bonemeal from the tower.
Anyways, a new topic would be good, so how would pistons(mind that they won't be called pistons), regular and sticky, affect how we battle?
I believe it would be easier to make short range, compact cannons using 2 pistons and a little redstone.Keep in mind, we must assume it will be similar to the pistons mod and will probably be changed up.
Using one piston below a block of tnt and then another suspended higher up, wired to light the tnt, throw the lit tnt up, and then hit it with the other piston to shoot it at x speed.So i must assume you could alter trajectory by changing timing and changing the distance between the bottom, launching piston and the upper, throwing piston.
Since I am assuming off of the mod, you could test it under these sorts of settings. I dont really watch a lot of mods, so i wouldnt know if this was ever done, but im pretty sure it has.
And if i am speaking totally out of my **** and am wasting thread space, forgive me.
Jeb has stated that he has removed the launch pad effect of the pistons. I doubt very much we would be able to create TNT cannons solely from pistons. However, if their recipe is cheaper, some automatic cannons may be viable, assuming its design is not too complex.
interesting note but you said most players prefer flat plains. i prefer, whether mobs or players, to fight on a slope.
fighting downhill you have the advantage of gravity. uphill you can use hit traps by pinning someone in a corner and pounding away at em'. even a 1 block height advantage can turn a battle in your favor.
Jeb has stated that he has removed the launch pad effect of the pistons. I doubt very much we would be able to create TNT cannons solely from pistons. However, if their recipe is cheaper, some automatic cannons may be viable, assuming its design is not too complex.
I didnt see that, but i doudted they would keep that in the back of my mind. Oh well. But an automatic cannon would be totally possible. You could modify the design in that video from before to make pistons move tnt from a source for a loader to fill. You could also set the amount of tnt in each trough by using redstone, buttons on a control board, and a bunch of repeaters.I couldnt do it, i can barely make a decent regular cannon! But if some one would make that here, that would be cool.
And at those who are still going on about the hidden base, USE BONE MEAL ON THE DIRT! Bones are a huge byproduct of producing tnt. Its like propane, a byproduct that is very useful!
The above post is true. Walls on a cliffside or hill as a base is a little common. And it being a sniper hole is one of its intended uses if you read his origonal post. It is a wonderful base to just put near an enemy base to spy on them or use as a safe haven when the enemy is looking for you. The only problem with hiding there is if your inside of it doing whatever, it isnt exactly very safe from a stray cannon shot or a lumberjack who stumbles on a patch of dirt with a name hanging above it. But it could be used as a good kind of temporary hideout for a spy, or maybe a group of them to function as a camp for a squad of soldiers to be closer to the opposing army without being threatened.
As an addon or modification to it, you could transform the cobble maker or whatever into a kennel for soldier's dogs, since a lil pack of dogs should be hidden too.
I really don't see where people are getting the idea that you will ever have to "set camp". There is no such thing in minecraft as starvation or fatigue. If night falls and the skeletons and spiders really get to you, all you have to do is dig a hole three blocks deep place a block of glass above you, and wait until day. There is no need to worry about the glass; it's not like there will be a night patrol unit or anything. There is never a time in which you need a cobblestone generator, let alone a makeshift one. In that case, you might as well replace your bucket of water and lava with 2 stacks of cobble if its that important. You also don't need a makeshift farm really. You can carry 2 stacks of grain and you are set for your mission, provided you have a workbench.
One thing important about a war though is to make sure you keep your mining active. Armor is expensive, but absolutely necessary if the other team has it, and an instant win if they don't.
But here is a nice topic: Base fortification. Given :
- You are protecting a primary objective
- All sides have access to primary objective locations
- All sides are constantly online
How would you fortify your base to prevent enemies from capturing the primary objective?
We can say that there are three general directions that the enemy can penetrate from:
1. Horizontally (North, east, south, and west.)
2. Vertically from above
3. Vertically from below.
Each of these three directions have different methods of protection and penetration. How would you guys go about each? Would you build underground? In the sky? On the ground? What objects/ materials would you use?
I really don't see where people are getting the idea that you will ever have to "set camp". There is no such thing in minecraft as starvation or fatigue. If night falls and the skeletons and spiders really get to you, all you have to do is dig a hole three blocks deep place a block of glass above you, and wait until day. There is no need to worry about the glass; it's not like there will be a night patrol unit or anything. There is never a time in which you need a cobblestone generator, let alone a makeshift one. In that case, you might as well replace your bucket of water and lava with 2 stacks of cobble if its that important. You also don't need a makeshift farm really. You can carry 2 stacks of grain and you are set for your mission, provided you have a workbench.
A nice little base is a really welcome sight in woods often traveled. It would be a hidden, multiple use little full house- Virtually anything you need is in here. You can carry grain and cobble, but that will only work for one or two missions. One of these camps is all you need- Afterwords, you can always retreat and completely restock at one, as though it was a little outpost checkpoint. The ability to keep any soldier nearby stocked with gear at any moment is vital- Even one of these will extend your power at least 100 blocks in all directions. To sleep the night, all you have to do is dig a hole- that's true. But a little hole won't serve as an outpost. Soldiers patrolling the area will find you in an instant and kill you like a fish in a barrel. From one of those, you can put up a fight as it keeps you well-stocked. It's like comparing a tent to an outpost- This is a base of operations, not a shelter. If you want a stealthy place near their castle to attack from, this will allow you to retreat and restock very quickly. It's basically a replacement to a big house that can be demolished with a couple of shots from the castle's Hyperion.
One thing important about a war though is to make sure you keep your mining active. Armor is expensive, but absolutely necessary if the other team has it, and an instant win if they don't.
Very well put. For every miner you have, you could probably stock 2 soldiers with gear- Or you can have miner-soldiers that stock themselves.
But here is a nice topic: Base fortification. Given :
- You are protecting a primary objective
A "Primary objective"? Be more specific. Are you protecting civilians? Are you protecting a hidden treasure chest? A non-hidden treasury? Is it your last base? Are you fighting just to keep the base up so you can fight from it later? Battle tactics fundamentally revolve around a specific goal.
How would you fortify your base to prevent enemies from capturing the primary objective?
We can say that there are three general directions that the enemy can penetrate from:
1. Horizontally (North, east, south, and west.)
Or from a diagonal direction, of course. If they pillar over your wall, shoot them with an arrow, they'll fall off the pillar. This strategy will work if you have a wall that is at least okay. If they can tunnel through it, put the pressure on them with snipers or soldiers.
Each of these three directions have different methods of protection and penetration. How would you guys go about each? Would you build underground? In the sky? On the ground? What objects/ materials would you use?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
I had a similar notion for the hidden bases, as something to restock at, refuel, and heal.
@ echo:I havent used dogs in a while, but thinking back you are right in that respect. But if you are close enough to hear dogs, you can certainly see their owners user names nearby! Stray shots are ones intended for another target. Although, considering the base's size, that is very unlikely. I do agree that stray shots weren't the best suggestion.
As for people mining through walls, put lava and gravel/ sand inside of your wall to discourage attackers. Or put lava on the inside and use water walling on the outside for a self repairing wall.
On attack from the air, hitting a sky pillar is a very daunting task, being one block thick, even harder if the opponent is far away and is building a one block thick path at the height limit to drop tnt onto your base from the sky. Doing the timing for a cannon firing up at a one block path at the top of the build limit is very hard, especially if they see you aiming at them and decide to build a quick path over it and bomb it.
Bases underground are harder to find purely because they cant directly be seen except when in the base.But defenses are harder to fix or modify.. Sky fortresses are easier to defend, but the distance to the ground makes transport between mines and earthbound areas very slow. Likewise, the path to get to it is entirely visible and therefore and easy target. Another problem is if you are building on it, modding it, or even walking around and accidentally step out into the void, your as good as dead unless your over water.
Ground bases are the easiest to see, get to, bomb, assault, break in, etc. It is, however, easier to defend, seeing that caves are harder to defend than mountains, plains, hills,etc. Also, getting to the base is faster. A another big advantage is that you can easily just build on it easily. Or around it. Either way.
hey, just an idea for sky fortresses. what if their was a layer of tnt under the floor, so when you hit it with a cannon, tnt would fall down, destroying the cannons?
What if the cannon isnt directly below?
Cause then that cannons owner is very stupid.
Sky fortresses aren't effective. They are extremely obvious and are waiting to be shot at from someones hill battery. Also, any means of acces to it are easy,important target.
I wanted to know what you people thought of using the Nether in combat. Ideas, notions, misgivings,etc.
@Matthew0257 No, you don't need to set camp. But having small very well hidden caches with res points available is golden bliss under certain circumstances. Also, as I remember it Notch was planning to implement something alike Starvation/Dehydration, which means it is just as viable for discussion as Pistons were. I agree with the rest though.
Also, you gave way too little information on your attack scenario, not to mention it is a less specific copy of mine just earlier.
Not necessarily. You were discussing how to attack a base, and thus, you would need to know what type of base to attack. I was discussing how to defend a base, and that includes how you would build it, where you would position your players and whatnot. I know I didn't give a ton of details, but in planning, you can only assume what you must assume. As a defender, you do not know how the enemy will attack, so you can make no assumptions on that; potential types of attacks to defend against are certainly up for discussion. The shape and vertical location of the base are entirely up to you to build so that is not assumed. What else is there to assume?
If we need clarification on my givens:
1. "You are protecting a primary objective"- This could be anything, whether it is a sponge, a hostage player, or the land inside the base. No matter what it is, you will probably want to defend it the same way.
2. "All sides have access to primary objective locations"- This is because its a primary objective. The primary objective is final, and if you look at a real war, the primary, final objective must have a known location as it is a center of "force" in a war. Usually in a real war, you win by capturing an opponent's capital if not by a surrender or treaty. Minecraft is not real life and thus I must present it as an arbitrary given.
3. All sides are constantly online- Although this is a bit ideal, we cannot really move on without this being given. This another issue, but we should discuss as if there are enough people to fight the war. A side being constantly online doesn't mean that all sides are 100% full at all times, it means that they always have enough people online to defend and attack.
If there is any other givens required, just say so. We should really all have been presenting givens all along before any discussion. It solidifies something up in the air for discussion purposes. But unnecessary or redundant givens can be restricting on the discussion's application itself.
A lot of this conversation seems to only apply to large teams (at least 50 people) fighting another group of about equal size, and each team has access to immense amounts of material.
Usually, this doesn't happen. This is almost entirely because of small server population caps. If there were a server that allowed people in the hundreds to play at once, then these tactics and ideas would be applicable.
Right now, it's almost always just 10 vs. 10 at the most, which does not call for cannons, sieges, long-term spying, or anything like that.
I think our conversations should be focused more on things that actually happen in vanilla gameplay multiplayer servers.
here's a scenario I would like to discuss: There are clans which are made up of 10 people each.
clan A has a larg mob traps that supply them with all the arrows they will ever need to support their small group. They have single a fort above ground, which is made with lava-obby sandwich walls. They use a direct, brute force style attack plan: Have charge at the enemy base and rush in. They use generic defensive tactics; Spam arrows in their target's direction.
Group B, however, is made up of dozens of small bases spread out randomly throughout the world. They don't have mob traps, but they have amassed an incredibly massive stockpile of arrows by gathering the morning drops of burned monsters over a span of several weeks. They aren't very good at combat, but they are all good at sneaking into and around places.
Who has the overall advantage? I would personally prefer group B. They could easily sneak in and steal gunpowder from the mob trap and make a few cannons, or just spam TNT inside their base. They could also sneak in and destroy group A's beds while they aren't looking, then kill them, forcing them to spawn back at the spawn point, which would ideally be far away from their base.
A lot of this conversation seems to only apply to large teams (at least 50 people) fighting another group of about equal size, and each team has access to immense amounts of material.
Usually, this doesn't happen. This is almost entirely because of small server population caps. If there were a server that allowed people in the hundreds to play at once, then these tactics and ideas would be applicable.
Right now, it's almost always just 10 vs. 10 at the most, which does not call for cannons, sieges, long-term spying, or anything like that.
I think our conversations should be focused more on things that actually happen in vanilla gameplay multiplayer servers.
here's a scenario I would like to discuss: There are clans which are made up of 10 people each.
clan A has a larg mob traps that supply them with all the arrows they will ever need to support their small group. They have single a fort above ground, which is made with lava-obby sandwich walls. They use a direct, brute force style attack plan: Have charge at the enemy base and rush in. They use generic defensive tactics; Spam arrows in their target's direction.
Group B, however, is made up of dozens of small bases spread out randomly throughout the world. They don't have mob traps, but they have amassed an incredibly massive stockpile of arrows by gathering the morning drops of burned monsters over a span of several weeks. They aren't very good at combat, but they are all good at sneaking into and around places.
Who has the overall advantage? I would personally prefer group B. They could easily sneak in and steal gunpowder from the mob trap and make a few cannons, or just spam TNT inside their base. They could also sneak in and destroy group A's beds while they aren't looking, then kill them, forcing them to spawn back at the spawn point, which would ideally be far away from their base.
We actually were discussing war with around 10 people. Cannons and such are still viable, as it is not used against humans, its used against buildings; its the easiest way to infiltrate an enemy base that is not obsidian.
Whether what we discuss actually happens currently is neither here nor there. We discuss what functions would be give enough of an advantage to be worthwhile doing. And I do agree that maybe some discussion has been stupid, such as trying to distract with annoyance machines, or trying to use cannons in the nether. But somethings can be worthwile such as using a tnt cannon to shoot at a wall guarded by archers.
About your instance: Who has the overall advantage at what? People need to be more specific about the final objective.
If the objective is only to "destroy the enemy bases and destroy the enemies until they ant fight", its basically a stalemate, as you can simply make as many underground bases as you wish, and neither side can attack.
But I'll assume there is a primary objective of known location; in that case, A would probably win. Spies, espioage, and such are very important, but you cannot rely on it alone.
In the end, you need to have some force. If the final objective is guarded from all 6 directions, there must be some point in which you to force through.
It's best to have a mix of good combat/force, with also some spying and sneaking. Something like this:
Having your primary objective well gaurded and fortified, with obsidian walls, archers, and whatnot, but also having a large mob tower, and a mining base or 2 in some secret locations. Having a spy find the enemies mob tower, sneak in, and put torches on the spawning floors. Having a scout sneak to the primary objective and TNT some holes allowing you to send 5 well armed troops o capture the objective.
The primary objective is extremely important. If they're protecting a VIP of their own, you need only weaken them to the point where you can send in an assassin. If they're keeping your VIP prisoner, you need to kill the guards, and toss the VIP enough gear to get out to where the reinforcements are waiting. Assassin's are important overall when dealing with VIP's. But if you're fighting over land, urban combat is most important. You'll likely be fighting in the cities, and thus you want things that can wreck blocks. Bring cannons to this fight. But use too much TNT, and you won't be able to reclaim the buildings. So a lot of it is foot soldiers scouting the area, killing civilians. If you're fighting a castle, you need to send in foot soldiers to kill the soldiers and capture/kill the civilians. If we're fighting over resources, you need to send in a spy who can bring their treasure to you. We can't proceed without something specific, because all warfare is based on deception and thus you'll need something different each time.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
Grass takes time to grow, and a person may become suspicious of a random block of dirt in a field of grass.
=Base
im pretty shure grass doesnt grow under trees.
Listen bro, we've been over this. There are highly adaptable cannons that take 5 seconds to build and have 360 aim, and quite a bit of distance. There are also kinds that have 150 block distance, even some ones with 360 aim. Cannons are vital in any Attack/Defend castle or open field battle.
@The amazing little base Adeo made, it is amazing and should probably be used if you're ever planning on traveling through an area repeatedly. It has everything you would ever need in one tiny space, invisible.
Anyways, a new topic would be good, so how would pistons(mind that they won't be called pistons), regular and sticky, affect how we battle?
I believe it would be easier to make short range, compact cannons using 2 pistons and a little redstone.Keep in mind, we must assume it will be similar to the pistons mod and will probably be changed up.
Using one piston below a block of tnt and then another suspended higher up, wired to light the tnt, throw the lit tnt up, and then hit it with the other piston to shoot it at x speed.So i must assume you could alter trajectory by changing timing and changing the distance between the bottom, launching piston and the upper, throwing piston.
Since I am assuming off of the mod, you could test it under these sorts of settings. I dont really watch a lot of mods, so i wouldnt know if this was ever done, but im pretty sure it has.
And if i am speaking totally out of my **** and am wasting thread space, forgive me.
Grass not regrowing is a BAD thing. It gives away that someone has dug in the area, and can be suspicious.
sorry, but i havent read those. When i searched for aimable cannons this was all that came up.
Grass under a log block doesn't ever regrow - and even dies off. So, both at terrain generation and during gameplay, tree trunks have dirt under them, not grass. So an enemy won't see anything suspicious about a square of dirt under a log block - that's the way it always is. And a log block can be mined and replaced without leaving any evidence. At least that's the theory.
Jeb has stated that he has removed the launch pad effect of the pistons. I doubt very much we would be able to create TNT cannons solely from pistons. However, if their recipe is cheaper, some automatic cannons may be viable, assuming its design is not too complex.
The New Boat Elevator
Simple Drowning Trap
Complex Drowning Trap
Note Blocks - The Blue Danube
Minecart Rider Detection System
fighting downhill you have the advantage of gravity. uphill you can use hit traps by pinning someone in a corner and pounding away at em'. even a 1 block height advantage can turn a battle in your favor.
I didnt see that, but i doudted they would keep that in the back of my mind. Oh well. But an automatic cannon would be totally possible. You could modify the design in that video from before to make pistons move tnt from a source for a loader to fill. You could also set the amount of tnt in each trough by using redstone, buttons on a control board, and a bunch of repeaters.I couldnt do it, i can barely make a decent regular cannon! But if some one would make that here, that would be cool.
And at those who are still going on about the hidden base, USE BONE MEAL ON THE DIRT! Bones are a huge byproduct of producing tnt. Its like propane, a byproduct that is very useful!
As an addon or modification to it, you could transform the cobble maker or whatever into a kennel for soldier's dogs, since a lil pack of dogs should be hidden too.
One thing important about a war though is to make sure you keep your mining active. Armor is expensive, but absolutely necessary if the other team has it, and an instant win if they don't.
But here is a nice topic: Base fortification. Given :
- You are protecting a primary objective
- All sides have access to primary objective locations
- All sides are constantly online
How would you fortify your base to prevent enemies from capturing the primary objective?
We can say that there are three general directions that the enemy can penetrate from:
1. Horizontally (North, east, south, and west.)
2. Vertically from above
3. Vertically from below.
Each of these three directions have different methods of protection and penetration. How would you guys go about each? Would you build underground? In the sky? On the ground? What objects/ materials would you use?
@ echo:I havent used dogs in a while, but thinking back you are right in that respect. But if you are close enough to hear dogs, you can certainly see their owners user names nearby! Stray shots are ones intended for another target. Although, considering the base's size, that is very unlikely. I do agree that stray shots weren't the best suggestion.
As for people mining through walls, put lava and gravel/ sand inside of your wall to discourage attackers. Or put lava on the inside and use water walling on the outside for a self repairing wall.
On attack from the air, hitting a sky pillar is a very daunting task, being one block thick, even harder if the opponent is far away and is building a one block thick path at the height limit to drop tnt onto your base from the sky. Doing the timing for a cannon firing up at a one block path at the top of the build limit is very hard, especially if they see you aiming at them and decide to build a quick path over it and bomb it.
Bases underground are harder to find purely because they cant directly be seen except when in the base.But defenses are harder to fix or modify.. Sky fortresses are easier to defend, but the distance to the ground makes transport between mines and earthbound areas very slow. Likewise, the path to get to it is entirely visible and therefore and easy target. Another problem is if you are building on it, modding it, or even walking around and accidentally step out into the void, your as good as dead unless your over water.
Ground bases are the easiest to see, get to, bomb, assault, break in, etc. It is, however, easier to defend, seeing that caves are harder to defend than mountains, plains, hills,etc. Also, getting to the base is faster. A another big advantage is that you can easily just build on it easily. Or around it. Either way.
Cause then that cannons owner is very stupid.
Sky fortresses aren't effective. They are extremely obvious and are waiting to be shot at from someones hill battery. Also, any means of acces to it are easy,important target.
I wanted to know what you people thought of using the Nether in combat. Ideas, notions, misgivings,etc.
Not necessarily. You were discussing how to attack a base, and thus, you would need to know what type of base to attack. I was discussing how to defend a base, and that includes how you would build it, where you would position your players and whatnot. I know I didn't give a ton of details, but in planning, you can only assume what you must assume. As a defender, you do not know how the enemy will attack, so you can make no assumptions on that; potential types of attacks to defend against are certainly up for discussion. The shape and vertical location of the base are entirely up to you to build so that is not assumed. What else is there to assume?
If we need clarification on my givens:
1. "You are protecting a primary objective"- This could be anything, whether it is a sponge, a hostage player, or the land inside the base. No matter what it is, you will probably want to defend it the same way.
2. "All sides have access to primary objective locations"- This is because its a primary objective. The primary objective is final, and if you look at a real war, the primary, final objective must have a known location as it is a center of "force" in a war. Usually in a real war, you win by capturing an opponent's capital if not by a surrender or treaty. Minecraft is not real life and thus I must present it as an arbitrary given.
3. All sides are constantly online- Although this is a bit ideal, we cannot really move on without this being given. This another issue, but we should discuss as if there are enough people to fight the war. A side being constantly online doesn't mean that all sides are 100% full at all times, it means that they always have enough people online to defend and attack.
If there is any other givens required, just say so. We should really all have been presenting givens all along before any discussion. It solidifies something up in the air for discussion purposes. But unnecessary or redundant givens can be restricting on the discussion's application itself.
Usually, this doesn't happen. This is almost entirely because of small server population caps. If there were a server that allowed people in the hundreds to play at once, then these tactics and ideas would be applicable.
Right now, it's almost always just 10 vs. 10 at the most, which does not call for cannons, sieges, long-term spying, or anything like that.
I think our conversations should be focused more on things that actually happen in vanilla gameplay multiplayer servers.
here's a scenario I would like to discuss: There are clans which are made up of 10 people each.
clan A has a larg mob traps that supply them with all the arrows they will ever need to support their small group. They have single a fort above ground, which is made with lava-obby sandwich walls. They use a direct, brute force style attack plan: Have charge at the enemy base and rush in. They use generic defensive tactics; Spam arrows in their target's direction.
Group B, however, is made up of dozens of small bases spread out randomly throughout the world. They don't have mob traps, but they have amassed an incredibly massive stockpile of arrows by gathering the morning drops of burned monsters over a span of several weeks. They aren't very good at combat, but they are all good at sneaking into and around places.
Who has the overall advantage? I would personally prefer group B. They could easily sneak in and steal gunpowder from the mob trap and make a few cannons, or just spam TNT inside their base. They could also sneak in and destroy group A's beds while they aren't looking, then kill them, forcing them to spawn back at the spawn point, which would ideally be far away from their base.
We actually were discussing war with around 10 people. Cannons and such are still viable, as it is not used against humans, its used against buildings; its the easiest way to infiltrate an enemy base that is not obsidian.
Whether what we discuss actually happens currently is neither here nor there. We discuss what functions would be give enough of an advantage to be worthwhile doing. And I do agree that maybe some discussion has been stupid, such as trying to distract with annoyance machines, or trying to use cannons in the nether. But somethings can be worthwile such as using a tnt cannon to shoot at a wall guarded by archers.
About your instance: Who has the overall advantage at what? People need to be more specific about the final objective.
If the objective is only to "destroy the enemy bases and destroy the enemies until they ant fight", its basically a stalemate, as you can simply make as many underground bases as you wish, and neither side can attack.
But I'll assume there is a primary objective of known location; in that case, A would probably win. Spies, espioage, and such are very important, but you cannot rely on it alone.
In the end, you need to have some force. If the final objective is guarded from all 6 directions, there must be some point in which you to force through.
It's best to have a mix of good combat/force, with also some spying and sneaking. Something like this:
Having your primary objective well gaurded and fortified, with obsidian walls, archers, and whatnot, but also having a large mob tower, and a mining base or 2 in some secret locations. Having a spy find the enemies mob tower, sneak in, and put torches on the spawning floors. Having a scout sneak to the primary objective and TNT some holes allowing you to send 5 well armed troops o capture the objective.