I do not need a lecture on Atomic Theory, by the way. I never said anything about pistons being used for building. That's silly, and I agree with you there. They're serious machines for complex devices. Like catapults! They take 5 seconds to set up (All you need to do is make two pistons for a 45 degree angle both connected to a button. Load TNT and enjoy.), so you won't need to aim it. If you need to barrage something else, mine it and make another one. The idea is you go right up to a base, and keep sending TNT (Load, punch, and press button. THAT EASY.) at the wall until it breaks. As long as it's not water walled or self-regen, that should take care of it quick. The idea behind is not to destroy a single, weak target like a watchtower on the base, but the knock over the walls. When I said "Cheap, quick building", I meant that the catapults are quick building. Not to be used to automatically make buildings. -.-
I'm talking about THIS catapult.
Insert button in Shroom, and Piston in stair. Smack the TNT, press the button. That's made so fast it's ridiculous, it's cheaper than a cannon, and it is very destructive, far more than a cannon could hope to be. It's lack of aim is what it pays, and thus it's better for ripping holes in walls than aiming. LIKE REAL CATAPULTS.
Cannons are to be used on defense, not offense. Catapults are better on offense. A single shot will remove one layer of a wall. ONE LAYER. I don't know about you, but they're not going to have a one block thick wall. A barrage of TNT will utterly destroy the wall. A cannon takes 30 seconds a shot, and this takes 1 second. If you're trying to knock out something vital, yes you can use a cannon, but that's what spies are for. For the meantime, this will knock out the wall before they realize you're there. Also, range is not a factor on attack. A respectable fortress will have a aimable Hyperion that will destroy any siege weapons in the Hyperion's range of 150 blocks.
You do not make computers in MC. Note we're talking about Cannons and Catapults. Argue as you will, they take a tiny space. Deal with it.
I think the catapult, when used by a general correctly, is a useful, but specialized tool in his arsenal. And besides, it can make better traps than possible before. That's not really debatable if you've ever made a trap.
And again, has anyone ever considered Arrow Cannons? Adding some arrow on top of your one TNT will make it more dangerous to infantry.
Videos to consider:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
Everyone seems to get a fact wrong with the arrow TNT trap, or at least I think so. Arrows are only "in blocks" client side, which is why you can not pick up or see other peoples arrows once they land. In flight its a different story. Once an arrow hits tnt, even if the tnt explodes, the arrow/s will radiate from the tnt, yes, but no one can be injured from the arrows, as they are not considered in flight, as they have hit the tnt block.
Short version:arrows work on your computer. They go into blocks, only seen/affecting you. Arrow goes in tnt, seen only by you, tnt explodes, no one (except you?) can be hit.
My untested theory, but based off simple facts.
Quoting the whole post of course. Yes I understand you don't make computers in minecraft, I was just trying to demonstrate what I was saying. And Also, about the catapults, I had a misconception there. I didn't know that they were right next to each other. I thought the it looked more like this: (Stairs=piston)
[]
[]
[]
In other words, I thought there was a gap, requiring synchronization, using difficult redstone timing. I was also looking at the full automatic cannon shown. In the case of that simple catapult though, that's a great idea. Though remember that standard cannons still have the advantage of being out of enemy range. It would be a battlefield decision, though. What hyperion are you talking about? I was also saying that you can fire at them from out of their sight, meaning they couldn't aim at you. Though rendering and chunks apply here? How far can a TNT travel and hit the other side in SMP? How far can they see with full render?
Also, what "high tech" machines do you speak of earlier?
Also, what "high tech" machines do you speak of earlier?
Specialized machines that require it. Like certain kind of stealthed bombs I can imagine.
Yeah, a simple catapult does the trick. A big, massive one with a clip ruins the point. Pistons are mechanical devices, not little toys or siege weapons.
Hyperion is a Twin-Rail cannon. Up to 150 blocks range.I don't think you'll have siege weapons that far, and even if you did, you wouldn't be able to use them on the Hyperion. The Hyperion is the longest range weapon you can get your hands on.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
Everyone seems to get a fact wrong with the arrow TNT trap, or at least I think so. Arrows are only "in blocks" client side, which is why you can not pick up or see other peoples arrows once they land. In flight its a different story. Once an arrow hits tnt, even if the tnt explodes, the arrow/s will radiate from the tnt, yes, but no one can be injured from the arrows, as they are not considered in flight, as they have hit the tnt block.
Short version:arrows work on your computer. They go into blocks, only seen/affecting you. Arrow goes in tnt, seen only by you, tnt explodes, no one (except you?) can be hit.
My untested theory, but based off simple facts.
Whoa. Where have you been?
That was fixed in like... Alpha. Arrows are not client side. You see very clearly when someone shoots you in the face.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
Everyone seems to get a fact wrong with the arrow TNT trap, or at least I think so. Arrows are only "in blocks" client side, which is why you can not pick up or see other peoples arrows once they land. In flight its a different story. Once an arrow hits tnt, even if the tnt explodes, the arrow/s will radiate from the tnt, yes, but no one can be injured from the arrows, as they are not considered in flight, as they have hit the tnt block.
Short version:arrows work on your computer. They go into blocks, only seen/affecting you. Arrow goes in tnt, seen only by you, tnt explodes, no one (except you?) can be hit.
My untested theory, but based off simple facts.
Whoa. Where have you been?
That was fixed in like... Alpha. Arrows are not client side. You see very clearly when someone shoots you in the face.
Yes, and no.
Arrows are server side, but the arrows IMBEDDED in blocks are still client side.
Try it on any server: Get a friend, ask him to watch you shoot arrows at a wall, and ask him if he sees any arrows that are stuck to the wall. Then ask him to shoot arrows at the wall, and look for both arrows flying and arrows stuck to the wall.
I posted about this earlier, let me see if i can find it.
Quote from zhyrek »
I just have a question based on the TNT arrow traps
On one server i was on, i built dozens of those traps with a bunch of other people. However, although we regularly stood within the area the arrows should have saturated with fire, none of us ever got hit by arrows from a trap set by someone else.
Is this just a fluke, or do those traps just not work against other people?
Quote from Valerius_Maximus »
@Zhyrek
I'm not sure I understand your question, are you saying that if you build an arrow trap, you can hit yourself with it, but not others? I'll try and test some tnt arrow traps soon.
Quote from zhyrek »
@Valerius I believe the arrows that get shot into a wall (or TNT) are client sided, which possibly could be so that you cant steal other peoples arrows
Have you ever seen an arrow stuck into a wall shot by someone else?
Quote from Valerius_Maximus »
@Zhyrek
That makes sense, and is consistent with what I have seen, and if that is the case... it is unfortunate.
Dogs are pretty useful in PvP,especially when you mass up a large pack. Also, there's no limit on tamable dogs.
Anyway, I figured a way to mass-teleport an army's combined wolf pack. Which is useful, if there's, say a castle with a lava-moat, or any type of treacherous hazards that dogs, being as dumb as bricks will run into and die.
Have your wolf packs sit en masse a safe distance away from the place you want to attack. Have the owners of the dogs breach the castle. Have someone who stayed behind with the dogs pour water all over them, which should cause them to stop sitting, teleporting them to their owners. Then the dogs join in the fighting. Do the same thing on your way out.
This is probably realllllyyy obscure and impractical. :x
Indeed, pistons are not battering rams. Use them in your machines, and don't just toss them against the enemy's wall. They are not to be wasted- Use them in machines that are actually useful.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
To be completely frank with you people, most war is completely impractical in Minecraft, and pretty much useless against a well-equipped enemy. I'll list off the Pros and Cons here.
Pros:
-You get resources.
-It tests your skill as a general.
-You may get satisfaction from defeating a worthy opponent.
-Explosives.
Cons:
-Very few direct damage dealing weapons.(Basically swords and bows.)
-Each fighter can only carry off one enemy's/chest's inventory.
-Defenses are constantly adapting, as well as siege weapons.
-No TRUE loss for killed enemies.(Unless it is only a 1kx1k chunk map, then it is worth it, but only for a short while.)
-You could get the same resources with a team of miners, hunters, and lumberjacks.(Albeit more slowly.)
-Extreme amounts of time is spent training spies, soldiers, and spec ops troops, as well as building fortifications, breach tunnels, mob traps, farms, etc.
-Resources used/lost THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WAR is very much less than the resources gained.
-You need to be nearly constantly updating your strategies to counter-act the newest defensive technologies.
-As Sun Tzu said (though my memory is a bit foggy here):"The preparation of mantlets, movable shelters, and various implements of war, will take up three whole months; and the piling up of mounds over against the walls will take three months more. 5.The general, unable to control his irritation, will launch his men to the assault like swarming ants, with the result that one-third of his men are slain, while the town still remains untaken. Such are the disastrous effects of siege." Basically, it will take far too long to siege even a town, without suffering heavy losses of man and material.
-If a fortification is captured, you have to repair the damage you caused, if you wish to use the fortification.(Though I would prefer to send it all to the Nether!)
-In the end, the war ends up as who can do more damage than the other guy. There is a term for that, MAD; Mutually Assured Destruction. It is also the same effect as mass bombings had in WWII. They strengthen morale, though the victims may lack the material to enact revenge.
-Your warriors may suffer unrest from the constant war, losing morale as conditions become worse, supplies scarcer, and constant marches, and as you push deeper and deeper into enemy territory, rout, retreat, or rebellion is sure to happen.
-So you win. What have you? Control of a crushed people(remember Post-WWI Germany?), soldiers suffering from unrest(remember Alexander the Great?), your status as a general equal to a god(remember Napoleon?), a severely weakened army(remember the early years of The American Revolution?).
In the end, most war in Minecraft is pointless. However, I'm not bashing small skirmishes with your neighbor, just empirical war.
Of course, that is just my view on war, and feel free to disagree with it. If empirical war does come about, I will fight, but only to end it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from WTFClock »
So let me get this straight
Bones
Give you wood Minecraft is now necrophiliac friendly
Quote from atiaxi »
The entire place is on fire, it should be baked by now!
But yet, it may not always be your choice. Remember Pre-WW2 Nazi Germany? In situations like these, your choices are to let them pummel you until all your cities are gone (Which is not really an option) or to fight.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
To be completely frank with you people, most war is completely impractical in Minecraft, and pretty much useless against a well-equipped enemy. I'll list off the Pros and Cons here.
-snip-
We understand that you do not actually profit from war in minecraft. It's there for fun. If you are playing chess, do you say to your opponent, "How about we do not take capture pieces so that we both have all of them." Same goes with any war game. I do understand that in real life, war is bad because it's not a game.
This thread is basically about taking minecraft and making it into a war game. After all, this has much more potential than what most people do right now. After all, minecraft is not just a lego set.
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
PIstons are actually useful for cannons, and they are not at all complicated. All you need is two pistons, one pointing up, the other to the enemy's base, connected to a clock. The pistons will protract and retract in time with the clock, and all you have to do is place TNT on the bottom piston, and hit it. It is easier to set up than a TNT propelled cannon, much smaller, and saves a heap of TNT.
Quote from zhyrek »
Quote from DrBursty »
What about hiding dispensators with blocks on pistons. That would make the many trap designs we have more effective.
I think that is unnecessary, as currently dispensers can shoot arrows through 1 block if it is adjacent to itself
However I won't dwell on that and will instead propose the following scenario:
This mod: viewtopic.php?f=1032&t=198188#Install gets fully implemented into the game by standard, being able to drop pin point bombs, large bombs and napalm, aswell as offering a gatling gun assuming you can aim it. And even transport options. How would this both in a war scenario and logistically affect a war?
Despite having no PVP or plane mod experience, EchoPhyber, I will hazard a few guesses.
Once the first experimental bombing runs are conducted, there will be a general realization of the power of airplanes within a war server. At which point serious thought and resources will be channeled into air power, it's uses, and how to deter it.
Air men will most likely:
1.Strategically bomb surface (and underground, if they know where it is) resource farms/factories/storage. This will happen more often than not because bases don't move.
2.Recon areas. Movement on the surface is quite noticeable if you know what to look for.
3.Conduct SEAD (Supression of Enemy Air Defense)operations. This most likely will not happen: No pilot worth his salt charges straight into AA fire! Well, almost none...
4.PARATROOPA. nuff' said.
5.Bomb enemy airports and air factories. This won't get focussed on unless airmen get organized, but they are vital to airpower.
Plus interception of said missions to prevent damaging consequences, and interceptions of those.
And expect smart ground players to:
1. Move everything farm-like underground. EVERYTHING. Otherwise it will be bombed, strafed, and the ruins burned away. Camouflage works too.
2.Put up decoys and watch with prankster pleasure as the bombers foolishly blow apart a few piles of cobblestone.
3.Put up AA defenses. Put them near troop positions, bases, and decoy bases. That'll deter those pesky bombers/paratroopers.
4.Conceal movement from the air. Or even better, make decoy moves to fool commanders into foolish moves.
5. Sabotage airports and factories/mob farms, for the same reason as airmen would. Only they'd be able to do it more sneakily and in a more satisfying way.
Personally, I see the Nether's stragical value to be similar to Real Life Ocean. Let me explain.
The Nether is a wonderful way of very fast travel, sure, it's very risky, but isn't everything with war? Both the oceans and the Nether have some form of fast or effecient way of travel. It takes a lot of work to secure the Nether, but so does the ocean. Think, you need a vast, powerful Navy to take control of the seas, and you need the funds to build the battleships, along with the manpower and the machinery. In order for the Nether to be viable, you need supplies such as dirt and cobble, food source, and a way in and out via several portals. you also need iron and diamonds that have to be exported from the Minecraft Earth. It can be costly, but securing the Nether can mean that your enemies can't just pop a portal and invade the roof of your base.
Also, think of what the Nether offers resource-wise. Glowstone for water-proof lighting, netherrack for traps and fireplaces, lava for lighting and WMDs, gunpowder, cooked pork, soul sand for traps, and mushrooms.
These can be hard to get, but think of the Ocean: There are fish, salt, and of course: oil. The ocean is chokful of resources. As long as you are audacious enough and have the man-power, there's no reason why you shoudn't claim surprermacy for the Nether.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[12:41] Coffeeeeeee!
---
[16:29] "And lo, the tacos were delicious"
YES. The above post is pure win. I'll think about that whenever we think Nether strategy.
Of course, on small scale, the nether is more like hell and the ocean is more like ocean.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wrong sir, wrong. YOU stole the fizzy lifting drinks and YOU touched the ceiling, therefor it must be washed and sterilized! So you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!
I'm talking about THIS catapult.
Insert button in Shroom, and Piston in stair. Smack the TNT, press the button. That's made so fast it's ridiculous, it's cheaper than a cannon, and it is very destructive, far more than a cannon could hope to be. It's lack of aim is what it pays, and thus it's better for ripping holes in walls than aiming. LIKE REAL CATAPULTS.
Cannons are to be used on defense, not offense. Catapults are better on offense. A single shot will remove one layer of a wall. ONE LAYER. I don't know about you, but they're not going to have a one block thick wall. A barrage of TNT will utterly destroy the wall. A cannon takes 30 seconds a shot, and this takes 1 second. If you're trying to knock out something vital, yes you can use a cannon, but that's what spies are for. For the meantime, this will knock out the wall before they realize you're there. Also, range is not a factor on attack. A respectable fortress will have a aimable Hyperion that will destroy any siege weapons in the Hyperion's range of 150 blocks.
You do not make computers in MC. Note we're talking about Cannons and Catapults. Argue as you will, they take a tiny space. Deal with it.
I think the catapult, when used by a general correctly, is a useful, but specialized tool in his arsenal. And besides, it can make better traps than possible before. That's not really debatable if you've ever made a trap.
And again, has anyone ever considered Arrow Cannons? Adding some arrow on top of your one TNT will make it more dangerous to infantry.
Videos to consider:
Short version:arrows work on your computer. They go into blocks, only seen/affecting you. Arrow goes in tnt, seen only by you, tnt explodes, no one (except you?) can be hit.
My untested theory, but based off simple facts.
Quoting the whole post of course. Yes I understand you don't make computers in minecraft, I was just trying to demonstrate what I was saying. And Also, about the catapults, I had a misconception there. I didn't know that they were right next to each other. I thought the it looked more like this: (Stairs=piston)
[]
[]
[]
In other words, I thought there was a gap, requiring synchronization, using difficult redstone timing. I was also looking at the full automatic cannon shown. In the case of that simple catapult though, that's a great idea. Though remember that standard cannons still have the advantage of being out of enemy range. It would be a battlefield decision, though. What hyperion are you talking about? I was also saying that you can fire at them from out of their sight, meaning they couldn't aim at you. Though rendering and chunks apply here? How far can a TNT travel and hit the other side in SMP? How far can they see with full render?
Also, what "high tech" machines do you speak of earlier?
Specialized machines that require it. Like certain kind of stealthed bombs I can imagine.
Yeah, a simple catapult does the trick. A big, massive one with a clip ruins the point. Pistons are mechanical devices, not little toys or siege weapons.
Hyperion is a Twin-Rail cannon. Up to 150 blocks range.I don't think you'll have siege weapons that far, and even if you did, you wouldn't be able to use them on the Hyperion. The Hyperion is the longest range weapon you can get your hands on.
Whoa. Where have you been?
That was fixed in like... Alpha. Arrows are not client side. You see very clearly when someone shoots you in the face.
Yes, and no.
Arrows are server side, but the arrows IMBEDDED in blocks are still client side.
Try it on any server: Get a friend, ask him to watch you shoot arrows at a wall, and ask him if he sees any arrows that are stuck to the wall. Then ask him to shoot arrows at the wall, and look for both arrows flying and arrows stuck to the wall.
I posted about this earlier, let me see if i can find it.
Pages 30-31
Anyway, I figured a way to mass-teleport an army's combined wolf pack. Which is useful, if there's, say a castle with a lava-moat, or any type of treacherous hazards that dogs, being as dumb as bricks will run into and die.
Have your wolf packs sit en masse a safe distance away from the place you want to attack. Have the owners of the dogs breach the castle. Have someone who stayed behind with the dogs pour water all over them, which should cause them to stop sitting, teleporting them to their owners. Then the dogs join in the fighting. Do the same thing on your way out.
This is probably realllllyyy obscure and impractical. :x
Pros:
-You get resources.
-It tests your skill as a general.
-You may get satisfaction from defeating a worthy opponent.
-Explosives.
Cons:
-Very few direct damage dealing weapons.(Basically swords and bows.)
-Each fighter can only carry off one enemy's/chest's inventory.
-Defenses are constantly adapting, as well as siege weapons.
-No TRUE loss for killed enemies.(Unless it is only a 1kx1k chunk map, then it is worth it, but only for a short while.)
-You could get the same resources with a team of miners, hunters, and lumberjacks.(Albeit more slowly.)
-Extreme amounts of time is spent training spies, soldiers, and spec ops troops, as well as building fortifications, breach tunnels, mob traps, farms, etc.
-Resources used/lost THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WAR is very much less than the resources gained.
-You need to be nearly constantly updating your strategies to counter-act the newest defensive technologies.
-As Sun Tzu said (though my memory is a bit foggy here):"The preparation of mantlets, movable shelters, and various implements of war, will take up three whole months; and the piling up of mounds over against the walls will take three months more. 5.The general, unable to control his irritation, will launch his men to the assault like swarming ants, with the result that one-third of his men are slain, while the town still remains untaken. Such are the disastrous effects of siege." Basically, it will take far too long to siege even a town, without suffering heavy losses of man and material.
-If a fortification is captured, you have to repair the damage you caused, if you wish to use the fortification.(Though I would prefer to send it all to the Nether!)
-In the end, the war ends up as who can do more damage than the other guy. There is a term for that, MAD; Mutually Assured Destruction. It is also the same effect as mass bombings had in WWII. They strengthen morale, though the victims may lack the material to enact revenge.
-Your warriors may suffer unrest from the constant war, losing morale as conditions become worse, supplies scarcer, and constant marches, and as you push deeper and deeper into enemy territory, rout, retreat, or rebellion is sure to happen.
-So you win. What have you? Control of a crushed people(remember Post-WWI Germany?), soldiers suffering from unrest(remember Alexander the Great?), your status as a general equal to a god(remember Napoleon?), a severely weakened army(remember the early years of The American Revolution?).
In the end, most war in Minecraft is pointless. However, I'm not bashing small skirmishes with your neighbor, just empirical war.
Of course, that is just my view on war, and feel free to disagree with it. If empirical war does come about, I will fight, but only to end it.
We understand that you do not actually profit from war in minecraft. It's there for fun. If you are playing chess, do you say to your opponent, "How about we do not take capture pieces so that we both have all of them." Same goes with any war game. I do understand that in real life, war is bad because it's not a game.
This thread is basically about taking minecraft and making it into a war game. After all, this has much more potential than what most people do right now. After all, minecraft is not just a lego set.
I think that is unnecessary, as currently dispensers can shoot arrows through 1 block if it is adjacent to itself
I thought that was fixed?
The New Boat Elevator
Simple Drowning Trap
Complex Drowning Trap
Note Blocks - The Blue Danube
Minecart Rider Detection System
Despite having no PVP or plane mod experience, EchoPhyber, I will hazard a few guesses.
Once the first experimental bombing runs are conducted, there will be a general realization of the power of airplanes within a war server. At which point serious thought and resources will be channeled into air power, it's uses, and how to deter it.
Air men will most likely:
1.Strategically bomb surface (and underground, if they know where it is) resource farms/factories/storage. This will happen more often than not because bases don't move.
2.Recon areas. Movement on the surface is quite noticeable if you know what to look for.
3.Conduct SEAD (Supression of Enemy Air Defense)operations. This most likely will not happen: No pilot worth his salt charges straight into AA fire! Well, almost none...
4.PARATROOPA. nuff' said.
5.Bomb enemy airports and air factories. This won't get focussed on unless airmen get organized, but they are vital to airpower.
Plus interception of said missions to prevent damaging consequences, and interceptions of those.
And expect smart ground players to:
1. Move everything farm-like underground. EVERYTHING. Otherwise it will be bombed, strafed, and the ruins burned away. Camouflage works too.
2.Put up decoys and watch with prankster pleasure as the bombers foolishly blow apart a few piles of cobblestone.
3.Put up AA defenses. Put them near troop positions, bases, and decoy bases. That'll deter those pesky bombers/paratroopers.
4.Conceal movement from the air. Or even better, make decoy moves to fool commanders into foolish moves.
5. Sabotage airports and factories/mob farms, for the same reason as airmen would. Only they'd be able to do it more sneakily and in a more satisfying way.
Just my guesses. If someone confirms let me know.
This is impossible, as dispensers aren't falling blocks, but imagine if they were and you shot one up on a piston, next to a tower of lit redstone
[]
[]
[]
A dispenser full of arrows would rain hell down on your opponent.
The Nether is a wonderful way of very fast travel, sure, it's very risky, but isn't everything with war? Both the oceans and the Nether have some form of fast or effecient way of travel. It takes a lot of work to secure the Nether, but so does the ocean. Think, you need a vast, powerful Navy to take control of the seas, and you need the funds to build the battleships, along with the manpower and the machinery. In order for the Nether to be viable, you need supplies such as dirt and cobble, food source, and a way in and out via several portals. you also need iron and diamonds that have to be exported from the Minecraft Earth. It can be costly, but securing the Nether can mean that your enemies can't just pop a portal and invade the roof of your base.
Also, think of what the Nether offers resource-wise. Glowstone for water-proof lighting, netherrack for traps and fireplaces, lava for lighting and WMDs, gunpowder, cooked pork, soul sand for traps, and mushrooms.
These can be hard to get, but think of the Ocean: There are fish, salt, and of course: oil. The ocean is chokful of resources. As long as you are audacious enough and have the man-power, there's no reason why you shoudn't claim surprermacy for the Nether.
[12:41] Coffeeeeeee!
---
[16:29] "And lo, the tacos were delicious"
Of course, on small scale, the nether is more like hell and the ocean is more like ocean.