just had an idea, what if you shorten the starting tunnel out by 1? that way you'll miss no ores, and on my world i just discovered 2 diamonds, next to eachother, which could've been missed by that
bedrock = tunnel
That's clever. I'm just waiting to see what NPhoenix has to say about it ;P If it is indeed an improvement then I'm going to start using your modified method!
Thanks man I started this method and it is working great! I think I've gotten about as much out of my new mine in about a third of the time as my last branch mine. The lack of counting and backtracking is saving me tons of time, and I love how I can continue to expand in such an even fashion. The only negative is that I had to take a long walk from my developed alpha map to make sure I got into and area with the newer ores. That and I don't seem to be finding much gold for the new boosters.
after "a little" expansion of my mine as shown below I must say....this system is awesome, you can continue with it pretty much forever (although after 100 or so blocks it may be decent idea to make yourself a path to the surface to cut the travel time as they do become long'ish and the mine can stretch out forever.
I am now done with this mine for a bit as I have like 10k cobblestone :tongue.gif:
oh and one more thing...THE LOOT:
i've used couple stacks of coal to make torches since this place eats them like crazy and stopped mining redstone after awhile. I've used maybe....8 diamond pickaxes so that's a profit of about 30 diamonds
I think the point is that if you want to maximize the amount of ore you get for minutes/hours/weeks mining, then you want to make it simple and maximize number of blocks uncovered per pick swing.
Eventually long walks will catch up to you, but in the end you will have saved time by never making a mistake and never hitting the same deposits twice. With Branch/Quad mining you can go in all directions as well, so it's not a prohibiting factor.
I am really pointing towards the posts that say there are methods to find ores faster than others. It can only come down to your block-mining rate...the ore discovery rate never changes.
There are methods that help discovery rates, like mining at layer 14. However, the pattern you choose to mine with depends on how you play the game. With branch/quad mining, you really need to decide on the 'size' when you start, or you will limit yourself in the end. With the X pattern, there is no need. If someone decides to suddenly mine much more than before, their efficiency won't be lessened.
Personally, I like the Quad pattern the best, with a length of 500-1000. However, the X pattern is more fun to mine, which is also a factor in which pattern you should use.
And it is misleading to say it only depends on your block-mining rate. It is the total time spent mining, including walking between branches, to/from the end of your mine, crafting picks, etc... No matter how efficient a mine is, it will become less efficient the bigger it gets...
Except for the X pattern. It gets more efficient the larger it gets.
just had an idea, what if you shorten the starting tunnel out by 1? that way you'll miss no ores, and on my world i just discovered 2 diamonds, next to eachother, which could've been missed by that
bedrock = tunnel
That's a good idea, one I hadn't thought about. However, while you eliminate blind spots, you decrease efficiency because you are double-exposing each 1-block wide wall. Having blind spots doesn't lower efficiency, because you are exposing other blocks elsewhere. It just creates blind spots.
That being said, I know there are players who it is more important to expose every block, so I'll include this as a less efficient, more thorough alternative version. Thanks.
I'm still working on quantifying the difference between 2 and 3 blocks between each leg... the only thing I can say for certain so far is, it's going to take a lot of work to get that actual data.
Thank you for contributing, I really appreciate the input of everyone, and I'm sure we will be able to come up with the absolute-best versions of each of these systems.
Quote from byoonie »
That's clever. I'm just waiting to see what NPhoenix has to say about it ;P If it is indeed an improvement then I'm going to start using your modified method!
That's what I have to say about it.
I really hope nobody thinks I'm being rude. I know I can be... straight to the point, but honestly I spend the majority of my time on the forums compared to figuring new things out, so I try to be as quick as possible here :smile.gif:
just had an idea, what if you shorten the starting tunnel out by 1? that way you'll miss no ores, and on my world i just discovered 2 diamonds, next to eachother, which could've been missed by that
bedrock = tunnel
A quick examination shows that the efficiency of this pattern over the shown area is about 11% less than the original plan. That difference will decrease the larger the mine becomes.
Thanks man I started this method and it is working great! I think I've gotten about as much out of my new mine in about a third of the time as my last branch mine. The lack of counting and backtracking is saving me tons of time, and I love how I can continue to expand in such an even fashion. The only negative is that I had to take a long walk from my developed alpha map to make sure I got into and area with the newer ores. That and I don't seem to be finding much gold for the new boosters.
Thanks!
Alex
You're welcome. You really hit it head on when you said you save tons of time by not having to count or back-track. Walking is one of the top 2 biggest inefficiencies in most mining methods. I'm glad it's working for you, minus the gold... it happens. When I played yesterday I hit a bunch of gold... 7 or so veins in the first 6 legs of one quadrant, but that was definitely an anomaly.
after "a little" expansion of my mine as shown below I must say....this system is awesome, you can continue with it pretty much forever (although after 100 or so blocks it may be decent idea to make yourself a path to the surface to cut the travel time as they do become long'ish and the mine can stretch out forever.
I am now done with this mine for a bit as I have like 10k cobblestone :tongue.gif:
oh and one more thing...THE LOOT:
i've used couple stacks of coal to make torches since this place eats them like crazy and stopped mining redstone after awhile. I've used maybe....8 diamond pickaxes so that's a profit of about 30 diamonds
Nice work man! Did you use 2 or 3 spaces between branches?
I am really pointing towards the posts that say there are methods to find ores faster than others. It can only come down to your block-mining rate...the ore discovery rate never changes.
the ore SPAWN rate never changes, your discovery rate can vary drastically depending on where you mine.
i dont want to rain on the OPs parade but the numbers people are posting in this thread are kind of sad =(
4 diamonds in a DAY of mining?? i hope thats a minecraft day...
id suggest reading the thread in my sig if youre interested in finding diamond quickly(as well as huge caches of other minerals). compare 8 diamond picks for a net of 60 diamonds to...
At layer 12 I've found 69 diamonds in 35 minutes. This is an amazing revelation for me. Also, I have countless stacks of obsidian now. Thanks for this OP.
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Quote from Swingerzetta »
This forum has made me decide that I now want kids, so that when they get old enough, I can forbid them from coming here. it's a terrible place.
I am really pointing towards the posts that say there are methods to find ores faster than others. It can only come down to your block-mining rate...the ore discovery rate never changes.
the ore SPAWN rate never changes, your discovery rate can vary drastically depending on where you mine.
i dont want to rain on the OPs parade but the numbers people are posting in this thread are kind of sad =(
4 diamonds in a DAY of mining?? i hope thats a minecraft day...
id suggest reading the thread in my sig if youre interested in finding diamond quickly(as well as huge caches of other minerals). compare 8 diamond picks for a net of 60 diamonds to...
At layer 12 I've found 69 diamonds in 35 minutes. This is an amazing revelation for me. Also, I have countless stacks of obsidian now. Thanks for this OP.
Because of diamond's low spawn rate, higher statistical anomalies should be expected. You can see in Tauro's map that he just happened to be in an area with very few caverns(lava lakes) at all, and no significant caverns within a short distance of his starting point. If you were to mine strictly stone at layer 12, you would only average 4.5 diamond ore per diamond pick. You said yourself, spawn rates never change, so the biggest factor is the number/size of lava lakes and caverns in a given area. Playing the other day I found about 21 diamond in under 20 minutes, but that(as well as your post of 69 diamond in 35 minutes) is only due to a higher concentration of ore and caverns in a given area. Before you go raining on my parade, you should realize that for something that only spawns once every 1250 blocks, you need a very large sample size to have an (accurate)expected average return.
I'm sure you've seen enough lava lakes to know that any of them that are worth exploring/obsidianizing always have at least 2 blocks clearance above the lava. Usually, they are also connected to a cavern system. By mining 2 layers above 'layer 12 mining', you still get the bonus of these lava lakes, as well as a higher chance of finding additional caverns, and a greater return of lapis.
Because of diamond's low spawn rate, higher statistical anomalies should be expected. You can see in Tauro's map that he just happened to be in an area with very few caverns(lava lakes) at all, and no significant caverns within a short distance of his starting point. If you were to mine strictly stone at layer 12, you would only average 4.5 diamond ore per diamond pick. You said yourself, spawn rates never change, so the biggest factor is the number/size of lava lakes and caverns in a given area. Playing the other day I found about 21 diamond in under 20 minutes, but that(as well as your post of 69 diamond in 35 minutes) is only due to a higher concentration of ore and caverns in a given area. Before you go raining on my parade, you should realize that for something that only spawns once every 1250 blocks, you need a very large sample size to have an (accurate)expected average return.
since i have started using my layer 12 technique, i am able to find at least 10 diamonds by the end of my first night on any new world. thats around 14mins, regardless of map generation. you will always find lava lakes/caverns. even looking at tauros map, it looks like his mine actually cuts into several of these.
on my current world ive found over 150 diamond in less time mining than ive spent on any other world, i havent even been deep mining in weeks. i often have cobblestone shortages for things im building and must specifically go mine cobble, i will NEVER have 10k of random cobble because the method is so much more efficient.
the entire point of layer 12 mining is TO GET a very large sample size due to the large number of chunks you will be covering, new chunks are only generated horizontally. by creating a branch mine of your design you will find a higher return of diamond/chunk but will be covering a MUCH lower volume of chunks in TOTAL(due to the overlap and circling back within chunks), which will give you lower returns. diamond is generated infinitely so im not very concerned about getting EVERY diamond from EVERY chunk, im concerned with my diamond profit for the amount of time spent.
the layer 12 method simply has VERY high yields. ive seen people saying that they havent found anything after x amount of time, but i really think theyre doing something wrong. using that technique i have never once failed to find diamond in under 10mins in a new mine(may obviously be longer if you do it in a current mine with no diamond left in it). travel time will increase however as your mine expands, since you will be covering a very large area across the horizontal axis(some of my mines extend for thousands of blocks in one direction from extensive cave systems).
I'm sure you've seen enough lava lakes to know that any of them that are worth exploring/obsidianizing always have at least 2 blocks clearance above the lava. Usually, they are also connected to a cavern system. By mining 2 layers above 'layer 12 mining', you still get the bonus of these lava lakes, as well as a higher chance of finding additional caverns, and a greater return of lapis.
this is incorrect. many(if not a majority of) lava lakes have only 1 block exposed above them. while mining 2 layers above would still give you a chance to find many of the lava lakes, it is far faster to throw down some water and travel on them than mine through 10,000 stone. there is no correlation between finding additional caverns or lapis mining at that layer either, you will find more or less the same(spawn rates never change remember??) besides the few random lapis or small cubby hole caves you find after hours of mining into solid stone. judging from tauros "loot" picture, i would imagine this probably isnt that much. in comparison, im sitting on literally 20ish STACKS of lapis, keep in mind that lapis is found up to layer 32. when breaking into a new cave system that extends vertically very quickly i will generally go poke around up to layer 32, unless im completely ignoring lapis at the moment.
this is the other problem i think people have with the method and why some people dont find diamond with it quickly, theyre too ingrained with their branch mining train of thought.
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Quote from Swingerzetta »
This forum has made me decide that I now want kids, so that when they get old enough, I can forbid them from coming here. it's a terrible place.
Quick question thought.. I want to install this mine under one of my properties and was wondering if there is a way to do it so that the center is larger then 4x4? I believe your using the 4x4 because its large enough to fit a small ladder shaft or spiral staircase.
Anyway, id like to put something like a boat elevator in the center leading up to the top, but would need more then the 4x4 area to do so.
Would someting like 6x6 work or would it throw off all the numbers? I like this system cause its easy to count to 6 for example, but would like the center to be a big larger to have enough space for a transportation system.
since i have started using my layer 12 technique, i am able to find at least 10 diamonds by the end of my first night on any new world. thats around 14mins, regardless of map generation. you will always find lava lakes/caverns. even looking at tauros map, it looks like his mine actually cuts into several of these.
Like I said, I got 20-something diamonds in about 20 minutes when I was mining this X pattern the other day. I wasn't even going for speed since I was taking screenshots and jotting down notes about the ore veins.
You mentioned Tauros' first post about how much diamond he found, saying it was very low. At that point, he hadn't crossed any significant lava lakes or caverns at all. That's random generation, but you act like it was the way he was mining's fault. It is just as probable to mine in a straight line without hitting any caverns.
Quote from Adversity »
on my current world ive found over 150 diamond in less time mining than ive spent on any other world, i havent even been deep mining in weeks. i often have cobblestone shortages for things im building and must specifically go mine cobble, i will NEVER have 10k of random cobble because the method is so much more efficient.
Mining in a straight line or mining in a pattern like this doesn't make any difference. You are mining into random blocks, and the end result is nearly the same. The difference is you don't get stuck 1000 meters+ away from your base, not wanting to mine any more. With the X pattern, you always have the shortest possible path left.
Remember, I never said this is the one and only way to mine in the world. This is just my best effort(so far) at an expandable pattern.
Quote from Adversity »
the entire point of layer 12 mining is TO GET a very large sample size due to the large number of chunks you will be covering, new chunks are only generated horizontally. by creating a branch mine of your design you will find a higher return of diamond/chunk but will be covering a MUCH lower volume of chunks in TOTAL(due to the overlap and circling back within chunks), which will give you lower returns. diamond is generated infinitely so im not very concerned about getting EVERY diamond from EVERY chunk, im concerned with my diamond profit for the amount of time spent.
I mentioned the increase of efficiency in the original post. For the first few legs, this really isn't very efficient due to the ratio of turns to straight mining. However, after a few legs, that difference becomes negligable, and the savings in travelling distance is greater than the small inefficiency of turning. It doesn't matter if you mine in a line or in a pattern. You will never expose more than 4 blocks for every 1 block mined(excepting caverns). It's an efficiency of 4:1 whether you mine straight or using the X pattern. Statistics don't care if you mine a lesser number of chunks thoroughly, or a greater number of chunks marginally. The ratios of those two approaches are the same. In that regard, total time includes mining and travelling, so an efficient return method is also important.
Quote from Adversity »
the layer 12 method simply has VERY high yields. ive seen people saying that they havent found anything after x amount of time, but i really think theyre doing something wrong. using that technique i have never once failed to find diamond in under 10mins in a new mine(may obviously be longer if you do it in a current mine with no diamond left in it). travel time will increase however as your mine expands, since you will be covering a very large area across the horizontal axis(some of my mines extend for thousands of blocks in one direction from extensive cave systems).
You can't say they are doing something wrong. You have to understand statistics to at least a small degree to try and argue efficiency. A block that only spawns once every 1200 or so blocks is a low percentage. To get solid, dependable, average results, you have to have a very large sample size. In that sample size you will have people who don't find any, and people who find 10x what anyone else finds. That's the nature of statistics and averages.
Quote from Adversity »
I'm sure you've seen enough lava lakes to know that any of them that are worth exploring/obsidianizing always have at least 2 blocks clearance above the lava. Usually, they are also connected to a cavern system. By mining 2 layers above 'layer 12 mining', you still get the bonus of these lava lakes, as well as a higher chance of finding additional caverns, and a greater return of lapis.
this is incorrect. many(if not a majority of) lava lakes have only 1 block exposed above them. while mining 2 layers above would still give you a chance to find many of the lava lakes, it is far faster to throw down some water and travel on them than mine through 10,000 stone. there is no correlation between finding additional caverns or lapis mining at that layer either, you will find more or less the same(spawn rates never change remember??) besides the few random lapis or small cubby hole caves you find after hours of mining into solid stone. judging from tauros "loot" picture, i would imagine this probably isnt that much. in comparison, im sitting on literally 20ish STACKS of lapis, keep in mind that lapis is found up to layer 32. when breaking into a new cave system that extends vertically very quickly i will generally go poke around up to layer 32, unless im completely ignoring lapis at the moment.
this is the other problem i think people have with the method and why some people dont find diamond with it quickly, theyre too ingrained with their branch mining train of thought.
I have been mapping lava lakes and their clearance. Very few don't extend up at least 2 blocks. If a lake doesn't extend up at all(those exist), there is no increase in efficiency by mining above it at layer 12 over layer 14. In fact, in that case it's better to be above the lava. You will still have to mine 2 blocks to travel 1 meter, but one of those blocks will have 0% chance of being ore(the lava).
Any lava lake you can 'throw water on and travel on', has to have a 2 meter clearance. :smile.gif:
As for finding additional caverns, the fact that you have an additional 2 meters of vertical visiblity by mining at layer 14 gives you a much greater chance of finding other caverns, since you won't miss out on any real lava lakes.
And your point about lapis is another reason why layer 14 is better. There is a 50-100% increase in lapis when you are looking at layers 12,13,14,15 compared to layers 10,11,12,13. It gets more common higher up.
Quick question thought.. I want to install this mine under one of my properties and was wondering if there is a way to do it so that the center is larger then 4x4? I believe your using the 4x4 because its large enough to fit a small ladder shaft or spiral staircase.
Anyway, id like to put something like a boat elevator in the center leading up to the top, but would need more then the 4x4 area to do so.
Would someting like 6x6 work or would it throw off all the numbers? I like this system cause its easy to count to 6 for example, but would like the center to be a big larger to have enough space for a transportation system.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
You can make your central room as large as you would like. The only difference will be the first leg of each branch will be longer to match.
The number 6 comes from the fact that every time you turn you dig 4 and see 1 block on each end. If you were to leave 3 spaces between legs, then you would count to 7, not 6. Initial room size won't change this.
sure use your design it is almost literally the same after all. like I said its more about preference rather than actual efficiency. Since I would rather mine equally in all directions I prefer the square technique than your original technique.
I really do appreciate your contribution Grizdale, it's nice to have people who think about the reasons why instead of just saying the first thing that comes to mind. :smile.gif:
What do you do when you hit a cave? I know you explore it but how do you continue the mine? Amuse pretend it's full of stone and continue that way?
It depends on the size of a cave. For a small cave, I'll mine out my pattern on the ends of the cave to keep my distances right. If it's a large cave, I'll go to the end of the cave(straight, on the same row as my shortcut path), and continue. I place blocks every 3rd block to mark where my tunnel would be, and do a quick extension of my window so I'll know where to dig to. Add 6 to the distance on each side of the legs for every other 3rd block marker on the shortcut path. Just as with the normal pattern, the left/right sides of each leg extend by 6 every 6th block.
I'm sure I could put together a better explanation than that, but for now, you should be able to understand by looking at the pattern picture and trying it yourself.
What do you do when you hit a cave? I know you explore it but how do you continue the mine? Amuse pretend it's full of stone and continue that way?
It depends on the size of a cave. For a small cave, I'll mine out my pattern on the ends of the cave to keep my distances right. If it's a large cave, I'll go to the end of the cave(straight, on the same row as my shortcut path), and continue. I place blocks every 3rd block to mark where my tunnel would be, and do a quick extension of my window so I'll know where to dig to. Add 6 to the distance on each side of the legs for every other 3rd block marker on the shortcut path. Just as with the normal pattern, the left/right sides of each leg extend by 6 every 6th block.
I'm sure I could put together a better explanation than that, but for now, you should be able to understand by looking at the pattern picture and trying it yourself.
Yeah, this makes sense. Continue the pattern if it's small, mark the pattern then go on if its big.
What do you do when you hit a cave? I know you explore it but how do you continue the mine? Amuse pretend it's full of stone and continue that way?
It depends on the size of a cave. For a small cave, I'll mine out my pattern on the ends of the cave to keep my distances right. If it's a large cave, I'll go to the end of the cave(straight, on the same row as my shortcut path), and continue. I place blocks every 3rd block to mark where my tunnel would be, and do a quick extension of my window so I'll know where to dig to. Add 6 to the distance on each side of the legs for every other 3rd block marker on the shortcut path. Just as with the normal pattern, the left/right sides of each leg extend by 6 every 6th block.
I'm sure I could put together a better explanation than that, but for now, you should be able to understand by looking at the pattern picture and trying it yourself.
Yeah, this makes sense. Continue the pattern if it's small, mark the pattern then go on if its big.
Right, but you only have to mark the main hallway and the windows. The windows move in a 6x6(up 6 over 6) pattern, and the shortcut path in a 3x0(up 3 over none) pattern. I'll add this point to the first post, thanks for the question.
I do feel the need to point out that in your own video which shows approximately 11 minutes of mining you only get 4 diamond.
i did not make the video and i already said that you will have lower returns if mining in an area youve already mined, which he was obviously doing.
You'r entire argument seems to be based on opinions with no maths behind it. Do a few hours of mining with you'r method come back with exact numbers than give your argument rather than using such statements as "on my current world ive found over 150 diamond in less time mining than ive spent on any other world" as an argument.
that 150ish diamond was from 5 picks(IIRC). there are many responses in that thread of how much diamond people are getting with the amount of time spent mining.
There are many other flaws in your logic but until you come here with some solid math it is impossible for any thing you say to have any solid ground for an argument and as such pointing them out is a waste of my time.
dont do it then *shrug*. if you want to spend twice as long mining and end up with half as much diamond, feel free.
Quote from NZPhoenix »
You mentioned Tauros' first post about how much diamond he found, saying it was very low. At that point, he hadn't crossed any significant lava lakes or caverns at all. That's random generation, but you act like it was the way he was mining's fault. It is just as probable to mine in a straight line without hitting any caverns.
what you quoted was referring to his last pics. a 30 diamond profit for 8 picks are simply poor numbers. you can also see a large number of caves on the cartograph, some of them are probably quite extensive.
Mining in a straight line or mining in a pattern like this doesn't make any difference. You are mining into random blocks, and the end result is nearly the same. The difference is you don't get stuck 1000 meters+ away from your base, not wanting to mine any more. With the X pattern, you always have the shortest possible path left.
the point is that im NOT mining, im walking on obsidian, this is what will dramatically improve efficiency since i spend far less time mining worthless cobble. while ive said travel time can be troublesome, its well worth the returns. whenever i get tired of travel time in a mine i start a new one. i currently have 8 mines connected by nether portals, these are all connected by minecart in the nether. it takes me a few mins to travel thousands of blocks and i always have a fresh mine(ive actually only mined in 3 of those).
eventually your x pattern will end up a thousand blocks away from your base also, it just takes a lot longer breaking all that worthless stone. like i said, you will simply cover a much larger volume of chunks. diamond has set spawn rates per chunk(most people believe its 1 vein/chunk) so it does make a difference, you are not mining into random blocks. if you find your 1 diamond vein in that chunk, the rest of the chunk is worthless and you may as well ignore it. if they were random however then it would be theoretically possible to find an entire chunk entirely of diamond below layer 16. because of these spawn limitations, the more chunks you can explore the better. if i can cover 10 chunks in the time it takes you to cover 2, it doesnt really matter that you found both of the diamond veins in your chunks. if i can find even 20% of the diamond potentially in the area ive covered, we're even, if i find 50% im way ahead. a friend of mine also tends to get confused in branch mines and absolutely loves the layer 12 method. it creates very distinguishable landmarks you can follow.
It doesn't matter if you mine in a line or in a pattern. You will never expose more than 4 blocks for every 1 block mined(excepting caverns)
the entire point of the method is to mine entirely in caves when possible, which is why you follow the lava, it will lead you to the bottoms of extensive cave systems.
You can't say they are doing something wrong.
the method is not nearly as straightforward as branch mining, you can easily miss diamond. the video in the OP shows this, he almost walks straight past the 2nd diamond vein above him but decided to check out the small recess and found it.
Any lava lake you can 'throw water on and travel on', has to have a 2 meter clearance.
also incorrect. many lava lakes have 1 empty block above them. youll have to break the block above to walk past but you can still put down water.
As for finding additional caverns, the fact that you have an additional 2 meters of vertical visiblity by mining at layer 14 gives you a much greater chance of finding other caverns, since you won't miss out on any real lava lakes.
vertical visibility is irrelevant, many massive cave systems end in these lava lakes. you will have a road that leads you straight to them. the MUCH smaller number of chunks you will be covering using your x pattern is what will lead you to find FEWER caves and i LOVE iscopeyou's description of the method posted on his video.
this whole method is about not strip mining at all, so there is no working from top to bottom, or trying to deplete chunks. It's just level 12, full throttle, hardcore stone bashing, straight lines and cave fighting until diamonds are coming out of your ears.
ever find caves like this?? i find them frequently. i found over 90 diamond in this single cave system(in about 2 hours) and i never even finished exploring it.
heres a new mine i started and this is what i saw literally as soon as i hit layer 12.
now should i start mining at layer 14, or just follow the lava off around the corner since everything is already exposed?? ive pulled around 35-45 diamonds out of it in just over an hours mining since.
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Quote from Swingerzetta »
This forum has made me decide that I now want kids, so that when they get old enough, I can forbid them from coming here. it's a terrible place.
That's clever. I'm just waiting to see what NPhoenix has to say about it ;P If it is indeed an improvement then I'm going to start using your modified method!
Thanks man I started this method and it is working great! I think I've gotten about as much out of my new mine in about a third of the time as my last branch mine. The lack of counting and backtracking is saving me tons of time, and I love how I can continue to expand in such an even fashion. The only negative is that I had to take a long walk from my developed alpha map to make sure I got into and area with the newer ores. That and I don't seem to be finding much gold for the new boosters.
Thanks!
Alex
I am now done with this mine for a bit as I have like 10k cobblestone :tongue.gif:
oh and one more thing...THE LOOT:
i've used couple stacks of coal to make torches since this place eats them like crazy and stopped mining redstone after awhile. I've used maybe....8 diamond pickaxes so that's a profit of about 30 diamonds
There are methods that help discovery rates, like mining at layer 14. However, the pattern you choose to mine with depends on how you play the game. With branch/quad mining, you really need to decide on the 'size' when you start, or you will limit yourself in the end. With the X pattern, there is no need. If someone decides to suddenly mine much more than before, their efficiency won't be lessened.
Personally, I like the Quad pattern the best, with a length of 500-1000. However, the X pattern is more fun to mine, which is also a factor in which pattern you should use.
And it is misleading to say it only depends on your block-mining rate. It is the total time spent mining, including walking between branches, to/from the end of your mine, crafting picks, etc... No matter how efficient a mine is, it will become less efficient the bigger it gets...
Except for the X pattern. It gets more efficient the larger it gets.
That's a good idea, one I hadn't thought about. However, while you eliminate blind spots, you decrease efficiency because you are double-exposing each 1-block wide wall. Having blind spots doesn't lower efficiency, because you are exposing other blocks elsewhere. It just creates blind spots.
That being said, I know there are players who it is more important to expose every block, so I'll include this as a less efficient, more thorough alternative version. Thanks.
I'm still working on quantifying the difference between 2 and 3 blocks between each leg... the only thing I can say for certain so far is, it's going to take a lot of work to get that actual data.
Thank you for contributing, I really appreciate the input of everyone, and I'm sure we will be able to come up with the absolute-best versions of each of these systems.
That's what I have to say about it.
I really hope nobody thinks I'm being rude. I know I can be... straight to the point, but honestly I spend the majority of my time on the forums compared to figuring new things out, so I try to be as quick as possible here :smile.gif:
A quick examination shows that the efficiency of this pattern over the shown area is about 11% less than the original plan. That difference will decrease the larger the mine becomes.
You're welcome. You really hit it head on when you said you save tons of time by not having to count or back-track. Walking is one of the top 2 biggest inefficiencies in most mining methods. I'm glad it's working for you, minus the gold... it happens. When I played yesterday I hit a bunch of gold... 7 or so veins in the first 6 legs of one quadrant, but that was definitely an anomaly.
Nice work man! Did you use 2 or 3 spaces between branches?
the ore SPAWN rate never changes, your discovery rate can vary drastically depending on where you mine.
i dont want to rain on the OPs parade but the numbers people are posting in this thread are kind of sad =(
4 diamonds in a DAY of mining?? i hope thats a minecraft day...
id suggest reading the thread in my sig if youre interested in finding diamond quickly(as well as huge caches of other minerals). compare 8 diamond picks for a net of 60 diamonds to...
The BEST way to mine diamond, layer 12 and you.
Because of diamond's low spawn rate, higher statistical anomalies should be expected. You can see in Tauro's map that he just happened to be in an area with very few caverns(lava lakes) at all, and no significant caverns within a short distance of his starting point. If you were to mine strictly stone at layer 12, you would only average 4.5 diamond ore per diamond pick. You said yourself, spawn rates never change, so the biggest factor is the number/size of lava lakes and caverns in a given area. Playing the other day I found about 21 diamond in under 20 minutes, but that(as well as your post of 69 diamond in 35 minutes) is only due to a higher concentration of ore and caverns in a given area. Before you go raining on my parade, you should realize that for something that only spawns once every 1250 blocks, you need a very large sample size to have an (accurate)expected average return.
I'm sure you've seen enough lava lakes to know that any of them that are worth exploring/obsidianizing always have at least 2 blocks clearance above the lava. Usually, they are also connected to a cavern system. By mining 2 layers above 'layer 12 mining', you still get the bonus of these lava lakes, as well as a higher chance of finding additional caverns, and a greater return of lapis.
since i have started using my layer 12 technique, i am able to find at least 10 diamonds by the end of my first night on any new world. thats around 14mins, regardless of map generation. you will always find lava lakes/caverns. even looking at tauros map, it looks like his mine actually cuts into several of these.
on my current world ive found over 150 diamond in less time mining than ive spent on any other world, i havent even been deep mining in weeks. i often have cobblestone shortages for things im building and must specifically go mine cobble, i will NEVER have 10k of random cobble because the method is so much more efficient.
the entire point of layer 12 mining is TO GET a very large sample size due to the large number of chunks you will be covering, new chunks are only generated horizontally. by creating a branch mine of your design you will find a higher return of diamond/chunk but will be covering a MUCH lower volume of chunks in TOTAL(due to the overlap and circling back within chunks), which will give you lower returns. diamond is generated infinitely so im not very concerned about getting EVERY diamond from EVERY chunk, im concerned with my diamond profit for the amount of time spent.
the layer 12 method simply has VERY high yields. ive seen people saying that they havent found anything after x amount of time, but i really think theyre doing something wrong. using that technique i have never once failed to find diamond in under 10mins in a new mine(may obviously be longer if you do it in a current mine with no diamond left in it). travel time will increase however as your mine expands, since you will be covering a very large area across the horizontal axis(some of my mines extend for thousands of blocks in one direction from extensive cave systems).
this is incorrect. many(if not a majority of) lava lakes have only 1 block exposed above them. while mining 2 layers above would still give you a chance to find many of the lava lakes, it is far faster to throw down some water and travel on them than mine through 10,000 stone. there is no correlation between finding additional caverns or lapis mining at that layer either, you will find more or less the same(spawn rates never change remember??) besides the few random lapis or small cubby hole caves you find after hours of mining into solid stone. judging from tauros "loot" picture, i would imagine this probably isnt that much. in comparison, im sitting on literally 20ish STACKS of lapis, keep in mind that lapis is found up to layer 32. when breaking into a new cave system that extends vertically very quickly i will generally go poke around up to layer 32, unless im completely ignoring lapis at the moment.
this is the other problem i think people have with the method and why some people dont find diamond with it quickly, theyre too ingrained with their branch mining train of thought.
The BEST way to mine diamond, layer 12 and you.
Quick question thought.. I want to install this mine under one of my properties and was wondering if there is a way to do it so that the center is larger then 4x4? I believe your using the 4x4 because its large enough to fit a small ladder shaft or spiral staircase.
Anyway, id like to put something like a boat elevator in the center leading up to the top, but would need more then the 4x4 area to do so.
Would someting like 6x6 work or would it throw off all the numbers? I like this system cause its easy to count to 6 for example, but would like the center to be a big larger to have enough space for a transportation system.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Like I said, I got 20-something diamonds in about 20 minutes when I was mining this X pattern the other day. I wasn't even going for speed since I was taking screenshots and jotting down notes about the ore veins.
You mentioned Tauros' first post about how much diamond he found, saying it was very low. At that point, he hadn't crossed any significant lava lakes or caverns at all. That's random generation, but you act like it was the way he was mining's fault. It is just as probable to mine in a straight line without hitting any caverns.
Mining in a straight line or mining in a pattern like this doesn't make any difference. You are mining into random blocks, and the end result is nearly the same. The difference is you don't get stuck 1000 meters+ away from your base, not wanting to mine any more. With the X pattern, you always have the shortest possible path left.
Remember, I never said this is the one and only way to mine in the world. This is just my best effort(so far) at an expandable pattern.
I mentioned the increase of efficiency in the original post. For the first few legs, this really isn't very efficient due to the ratio of turns to straight mining. However, after a few legs, that difference becomes negligable, and the savings in travelling distance is greater than the small inefficiency of turning. It doesn't matter if you mine in a line or in a pattern. You will never expose more than 4 blocks for every 1 block mined(excepting caverns). It's an efficiency of 4:1 whether you mine straight or using the X pattern. Statistics don't care if you mine a lesser number of chunks thoroughly, or a greater number of chunks marginally. The ratios of those two approaches are the same. In that regard, total time includes mining and travelling, so an efficient return method is also important.
You can't say they are doing something wrong. You have to understand statistics to at least a small degree to try and argue efficiency. A block that only spawns once every 1200 or so blocks is a low percentage. To get solid, dependable, average results, you have to have a very large sample size. In that sample size you will have people who don't find any, and people who find 10x what anyone else finds. That's the nature of statistics and averages.
I have been mapping lava lakes and their clearance. Very few don't extend up at least 2 blocks. If a lake doesn't extend up at all(those exist), there is no increase in efficiency by mining above it at layer 12 over layer 14. In fact, in that case it's better to be above the lava. You will still have to mine 2 blocks to travel 1 meter, but one of those blocks will have 0% chance of being ore(the lava).
Any lava lake you can 'throw water on and travel on', has to have a 2 meter clearance. :smile.gif:
As for finding additional caverns, the fact that you have an additional 2 meters of vertical visiblity by mining at layer 14 gives you a much greater chance of finding other caverns, since you won't miss out on any real lava lakes.
And your point about lapis is another reason why layer 14 is better. There is a 50-100% increase in lapis when you are looking at layers 12,13,14,15 compared to layers 10,11,12,13. It gets more common higher up.
Thanks for the discussion :smile.gif:
You can make your central room as large as you would like. The only difference will be the first leg of each branch will be longer to match.
The number 6 comes from the fact that every time you turn you dig 4 and see 1 block on each end. If you were to leave 3 spaces between legs, then you would count to 7, not 6. Initial room size won't change this.
Glad you like it :wink.gif:
I really do appreciate your contribution Grizdale, it's nice to have people who think about the reasons why instead of just saying the first thing that comes to mind. :smile.gif:
Have a .
Er... I meant
:tongue.gif:
http://tinyurl.com/lmxrrg
It depends on the size of a cave. For a small cave, I'll mine out my pattern on the ends of the cave to keep my distances right. If it's a large cave, I'll go to the end of the cave(straight, on the same row as my shortcut path), and continue. I place blocks every 3rd block to mark where my tunnel would be, and do a quick extension of my window so I'll know where to dig to. Add 6 to the distance on each side of the legs for every other 3rd block marker on the shortcut path. Just as with the normal pattern, the left/right sides of each leg extend by 6 every 6th block.
I'm sure I could put together a better explanation than that, but for now, you should be able to understand by looking at the pattern picture and trying it yourself.
Yeah, this makes sense. Continue the pattern if it's small, mark the pattern then go on if its big.
http://tinyurl.com/lmxrrg
Right, but you only have to mark the main hallway and the windows. The windows move in a 6x6(up 6 over 6) pattern, and the shortcut path in a 3x0(up 3 over none) pattern. I'll add this point to the first post, thanks for the question.
i did not make the video and i already said that you will have lower returns if mining in an area youve already mined, which he was obviously doing.
that 150ish diamond was from 5 picks(IIRC). there are many responses in that thread of how much diamond people are getting with the amount of time spent mining.
dont do it then *shrug*. if you want to spend twice as long mining and end up with half as much diamond, feel free.
what you quoted was referring to his last pics. a 30 diamond profit for 8 picks are simply poor numbers. you can also see a large number of caves on the cartograph, some of them are probably quite extensive.
the point is that im NOT mining, im walking on obsidian, this is what will dramatically improve efficiency since i spend far less time mining worthless cobble. while ive said travel time can be troublesome, its well worth the returns. whenever i get tired of travel time in a mine i start a new one. i currently have 8 mines connected by nether portals, these are all connected by minecart in the nether. it takes me a few mins to travel thousands of blocks and i always have a fresh mine(ive actually only mined in 3 of those).
eventually your x pattern will end up a thousand blocks away from your base also, it just takes a lot longer breaking all that worthless stone. like i said, you will simply cover a much larger volume of chunks. diamond has set spawn rates per chunk(most people believe its 1 vein/chunk) so it does make a difference, you are not mining into random blocks. if you find your 1 diamond vein in that chunk, the rest of the chunk is worthless and you may as well ignore it. if they were random however then it would be theoretically possible to find an entire chunk entirely of diamond below layer 16. because of these spawn limitations, the more chunks you can explore the better. if i can cover 10 chunks in the time it takes you to cover 2, it doesnt really matter that you found both of the diamond veins in your chunks. if i can find even 20% of the diamond potentially in the area ive covered, we're even, if i find 50% im way ahead. a friend of mine also tends to get confused in branch mines and absolutely loves the layer 12 method. it creates very distinguishable landmarks you can follow.
the entire point of the method is to mine entirely in caves when possible, which is why you follow the lava, it will lead you to the bottoms of extensive cave systems.
the method is not nearly as straightforward as branch mining, you can easily miss diamond. the video in the OP shows this, he almost walks straight past the 2nd diamond vein above him but decided to check out the small recess and found it.
also incorrect. many lava lakes have 1 empty block above them. youll have to break the block above to walk past but you can still put down water.
vertical visibility is irrelevant, many massive cave systems end in these lava lakes. you will have a road that leads you straight to them. the MUCH smaller number of chunks you will be covering using your x pattern is what will lead you to find FEWER caves and i LOVE iscopeyou's description of the method posted on his video.
ever find caves like this?? i find them frequently. i found over 90 diamond in this single cave system(in about 2 hours) and i never even finished exploring it.
heres a new mine i started and this is what i saw literally as soon as i hit layer 12.
now should i start mining at layer 14, or just follow the lava off around the corner since everything is already exposed?? ive pulled around 35-45 diamonds out of it in just over an hours mining since.
The BEST way to mine diamond, layer 12 and you.