I recently saw a design of Guardian Farm. It's very efficient and much easier to make. However, I'm more interested in the efficiency, so I wanna ask about it before I continue my work.
Design 1 is just an undrained ocean monument with more than a dub of fence gates below.
Design 2 is gnembon's 1.12 Guardian Farm.
I want to know which one is more efficient. Just to confirm.
(If there's a way more efficient one than those 2, plz tell me. :))
Measuring efficiency as maximum guardian kills/drops/XP per hour, gnembon's redstone block design (built as low as possible as he describes) is the most efficient of which I am aware. [This seems to be the common MC definition of efficiency.]
Measured in other terms this may not be true (eg. gnembon's designs work at maximum rate only of there are no non-transparent blocks in the area above the temple floor).
Similarly, simply replacing the bottom of an ocean monument with fence gates above a drop (no link shows, guessing this is what is meant) may represent enough savings in labor that such designs become at least competitive in terms of efficiency of cost.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
Measuring efficiency as maximum guardian kills/drops/XP per hour, gnembon's redstone block design (built as low as possible as he describes) is the most efficient of which I am aware. [This seems to be the common MC definition of efficiency.]
Measured in other terms this may not be true (eg. gnembon's designs work at maximum rate only of there are no non-transparent blocks in the area above the temple floor).
Similarly, simply replacing the bottom of an ocean monument with fence gates above a drop (no link shows, guessing this is what is meant) may represent enough savings in labor that such designs become at least competitive in terms of efficiency of cost.
If the definition of efficiency here is xp per hour, Design 2 is better?
Measured in other terms this may not be true (eg. gnembon's designs work at maximum rate only of there are no non-transparent blocks in the area above the temple floor).
Also, does that mean if there's some floating sand above the ocean monument, it reduces the spawn rate?
If the definition of efficiency here is xp per hour, Design 2 is better? Yes
Also, does that mean if there's some floating sand above the ocean monument, it reduces the spawn rate?Yes, when attempting to find a valid position on which to spawn mobs the game checks from bottom up so confining the build to the lowest few sections [16x16x16 volumes] decraeses the time per spawn check. Any non-transparent block in an upper section will result in the software checking up to and including that section.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
However, the spawn rate is not like gnembon's design.
His design is like spawning guardians every 2 seconds.
But mine is very unstable. They rarely spawn every 2 second. They can spawn after 17 seconds, and even after 35 seconds.
I feel like there's something missing, causing such unstable spawn rate. Can somebody tell me why? Thx.
How are you determining spawn rates? (It doesn't look like the smooth stone shelf at the bottom of the main drop is fully visible.)
Comparing the video design to yours:
You don't seem to have hoppers at the base of the drop shaft for item collection.
Also, I'm not seeing the water dispensing mechanism to flow water across the top of the hoppers and push the guardians onto the enchanting tables.
gnembon is also using a 2x4 kill chamber with additional dispensers, whereas I see a 1x4 chamber without dispensers in yours.
The video also mentions @ ~11:25 (during gnembon's discussion of possible problems) the large area filled with solid blocks around the central farm. It looks like you have this in place from the first three shots, but this is not perfectly clear and the final shot doesn't make sense to me {taken looking upward from the void???}. This is also discussed @~17:10 in the other video (below).
You note "[t]op water stops at y:39" while @ ~12:05 heregnebom indicates the "bottom of all water tanks is at y=38" (lowest water? or floor?)
As I don't use this design (since before 1.12, as I don't need anything quite that fast), I've never resolved the ambiguity
I'm not sure how much effect any of these has individually, but any or all may help.
Looking forward, how do you plan on preventing Drowned spawns on the surrounding seafloor in 1.13/14?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
However, the spawn rate is not like gnembon's design.
His design is like spawning guardians every 2 seconds.
But mine is very unstable. They rarely spawn every 2 second. They can spawn after 17 seconds, and even after 35 seconds.
I feel like there's something missing, causing such unstable spawn rate. Can somebody tell me why? Thx.
How are you determining spawn rates? (It doesn't look like the smooth stone shelf at the bottom of the main drop is fully visible.)
Comparing the video design to yours:
You don't seem to have hoppers at the base of the drop shaft for item collection.
Also, I'm not seeing the water dispensing mechanism to flow water across the top of the hoppers and push the guardians onto the enchanting tables.
gnembon is also using a 2x4 kill chamber with additional dispensers, whereas I see a 1x4 chamber without dispensers in yours.
The video also mentions @ ~11:25 (during gnembon's discussion of possible problems) the large area filled with solid blocks around the central farm. It looks like you have this in place from the first three shots, but this is not perfectly clear and the final shot doesn't make sense to me {taken looking upward from the void???}. This is also discussed @~17:10 in the other video (below).
You note "[t]op water stops at y:39" while @ ~12:05 heregnebom indicates the "bottom of all water tanks is at y=38" (lowest water? or floor?)
As I don't use this design (since before 1.12, as I don't need anything quite that fast), I've never resolved the ambiguity
I'm not sure how much effect any of these has individually, but any or all may help.
Looking forward, how do you plan on preventing Drowned spawns on the surrounding seafloor in 1.13/14?
I'm not trying to fully copy the video's design, cuz I have to add sth else.
Lemme try to break it down...
1. Bottom of the main drop? which picture?
2. Em, spawn rate is just saying guardians spawn per second I guess?
3. It's not fully made, in fact, since I wanna make this in a server, this is just a rough work. Hence, there is no hoppers below. If the corpse of the guardian rly have a great impact on the spawn rate, plz tell me.
4. Well, I don't rly like the 2x4 one. I just want a 1x4 one.
5. I took a screenshot from the bedrock to show you there they aren't caves nearby to spawn mobs.
6. The floor and the "top water"(or water tank, whatever) is at y:39, so I stand at y:40. Does it have a big impact on the spawn rate if the bottom of the water tank is at y:39 instead of y:38?
So yeah, again, thanks for the answer.
(The reason I made the floor at y:39 is because I heard that in the monument area, mobs don't spawn at y:40. So there won't be hostile mobs spawning at the platform other than guardians.)
The difference in mob spawn rates is not likely that significant between render 9 and render 10, it's probably not really that significant between 7 or 8 and 10 for that matter. At 5 render, it does start getting to be noticeable and around 2-3 is about when you might start wondering if perhaps you forgot that you switched to peaceful or accidentally turned off mob spawning via the gamerule.
Note that there are other factors outside of render distance that can produce similar results.
The difference in mob spawn rates is not likely that significant between render 9 and render 10, it's probably not really that significant between 7 or 8 and 10 for that matter. At 5 render, it does start getting to be noticeable and around 2-3 is about when you might start wondering if perhaps you forgot that you switched to peaceful or accidentally turned off mob spawning via the gamerule.
Note that there are other factors outside of render distance that can produce similar results.
The other factors that I can think of are "substantial caves within 128 blocks not lit up" and "standing closer than 24 blocks to spawn area" ... anything else? Spawning area has very few spawnable blocks for some unknown reason?
Anyhow, he should set his view distance under video options to 10 chunks and see if that helps.
I'm not trying to fully copy the video's design, cuz I have to add sth else.
Lemme try to break it down...
1. Bottom of the main drop? which picture? Pics #2 & #3 ~3 up from the enchanting tables
2. Em, spawn rate is just saying guardians spawn per second I guess?
3. It's not fully made, in fact, since I wanna make this in a server, this is just a rough work. Hence, there is no hoppers below. If the corpse of the guardian rly have a great impact on the spawn rate, plz tell me.
The question ablout how you are determining spawn rate came from seeing threads where players infer spawn rates from the number of drops collected (which works IFF all the mobs die in positions where the drops are collected).
If you use something like carpet mod or watching the entity counts in the f3 screen this won't be an issue.
[Assuming you can summon a player to stand in the kill room(I know one can do this with carpet mod, but don't think it's possible in vanilla), watching in spectator mode will also work; otherwise being in spectator mode avoids triggering mob spawns.]
4. Well, I don't rly like the 2x4 one. I just want a 1x4 one.
The 1x shaft may lower efficiency as the guardians may be a bit less likely to be pushed into it... how much I don't know, much less whether the difference would be enough to be important to you.
5. I took a screenshot from the bedrock to show you there they aren't caves nearby to spawn mobs.
I understand... the perspective is unusual enough it took me a while to understand why it looked as it does.
RE the caves being lit: in pic #3 [4hLrs5P.png] there are an enderman, a spider, a skeleton and two zombies visible on the right. The shot was obviously taken in spectator mode, but this still implies they are with in 128 of the farm.
6. The floor and the "top water"(or water tank, whatever) is at y:39, so I stand at y:40. Does it have a big impact on the spawn rate if the bottom of the water tank is at y:39 instead of y:38? Another question that I've never pushed the optimization enough to be able to answer.... :sigh:
So yeah, again, thanks for the answer.
(The reason I made the floor at y:39 is because I heard that in the monument area, mobs don't spawn at y:40. So there won't be hostile mobs spawning at the platform other than guardians.)
No mobs (other than guardians) spawn within the 59x59 footprint of the OM from y=39 up to sea level; they will spawn in caves under it as well as in the area between the pillars (if dry)
I'm unclear about how much any of these effects the XP generation rate; what I did was try to find every differece between gnembon's desgign in his video and the test version you built with the idea that a number of minor differences might interact to produce the results you were seeing..
WRT the mention of view/render distance in the above posts, I'm unable to judge from the pics, but setting it to 12 (default) seems most likely to duplicate that part of gnembon's conditions.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
The difference in mob spawn rates is not likely that significant between render 9 and render 10, it's probably not really that significant between 7 or 8 and 10 for that matter. At 5 render, it does start getting to be noticeable and around 2-3 is about when you might start wondering if perhaps you forgot that you switched to peaceful or accidentally turned off mob spawning via the gamerule.
Note that there are other factors outside of render distance that can produce similar results.
The other factors that I can think of are "substantial caves within 128 blocks not lit up" and "standing closer than 24 blocks to spawn area" ... anything else? Spawning area has very few spawnable blocks for some unknown reason?
Anyhow, he should set his view distance under video options to 10 chunks and see if that helps.
So do you mean the design itself doesn't have issues?
It's just because my render distance is set less than gnembon's, causing the difference?
As ScotsMiser mentioned, my water tank might be too high, and my floor is at y:39 (I can stand on y:40), do u think these 2 differences are significant as well?
I observe that there aren't very many water spaces in this design, so it won't compete that well with dark caves if you have left any around.
You might want to fly around in spectator mode and nail the rest of the caves within 128 of your AFK position, and make sure that you're AFK'ing 24+ spaces below or away from the water tank.
I have a guardian spawner that's working great even though apparently there are still hostile mobs around someplace (didn't do the spectator mode trick.) I believe it's likely doing well just because it's so huge - something like 8000 spawnable spots in it.
I tried setting view distance to 9 chunks under my guardian spawner and at least in my case there was little difference. So DuhDerp had generally a good point there. Still, try ten chunks!
You're right minor differences like "water tank being a few blocks too high" are not going to cause the difference between 1-2 guardians/sec and some every 30 seconds. ScotsMiser was just examining all the contingencies.
The difference in productivity between darkroom spawners at y=200 and at y=32 might be noticeable, but things like making sure there are few or no competing spawning spaces and being at the right distance (>= 24 blocks at least) are much more important.
I recently saw a design of Guardian Farm. It's very efficient and much easier to make. However, I'm more interested in the efficiency, so I wanna ask about it before I continue my work.
Design 1 is just an undrained ocean monument with more than a dub of fence gates below.
Design 2 is gnembon's 1.12 Guardian Farm.
I want to know which one is more efficient. Just to confirm.
(If there's a way more efficient one than those 2, plz tell me. :))
Edit: Efficiency - XP per unit time.
Measuring efficiency as maximum guardian kills/drops/XP per hour, gnembon's redstone block design (built as low as possible as he describes) is the most efficient of which I am aware. [This seems to be the common MC definition of efficiency.]
Measured in other terms this may not be true (eg. gnembon's designs work at maximum rate only of there are no non-transparent blocks in the area above the temple floor).
Similarly, simply replacing the bottom of an ocean monument with fence gates above a drop (no link shows, guessing this is what is meant) may represent enough savings in labor that such designs become at least competitive in terms of efficiency of cost.
If the definition of efficiency here is xp per hour, Design 2 is better?
Also, does that mean if there's some floating sand above the ocean monument, it reduces the spawn rate?
Hello again.
Now I chose Design 2 and built it in Singleplayer.
I built it, but it's just slow for whatever reason.
Here's the situation of my farm:
1. 7-high redstone cross. Standing on y:40
2. Top water stops at y:39, then a 3 block gap, then a 4 block lava pool (can be swept by a normal dm sword)
3. The falling zone
4. The killing zone/ AFK zone is at y:16
5. The caves within the range of the monument is cleared (or torched in Survival)
However, the spawn rate is not like gnembon's design.
His design is like spawning guardians every 2 seconds.
But mine is very unstable. They rarely spawn every 2 second. They can spawn after 17 seconds, and even after 35 seconds.
I feel like there's something missing, causing such unstable spawn rate. Can somebody tell me why? Thx.
quote=YMbrothers
However, the spawn rate is not like gnembon's design.
His design is like spawning guardians every 2 seconds.
But mine is very unstable. They rarely spawn every 2 second. They can spawn after 17 seconds, and even after 35 seconds.
I feel like there's something missing, causing such unstable spawn rate. Can somebody tell me why? Thx.
How are you determining spawn rates? (It doesn't look like the smooth stone shelf at the bottom of the main drop is fully visible.)
Comparing the video design to yours:
You don't seem to have hoppers at the base of the drop shaft for item collection.
Also, I'm not seeing the water dispensing mechanism to flow water across the top of the hoppers and push the guardians onto the enchanting tables.
gnembon is also using a 2x4 kill chamber with additional dispensers, whereas I see a 1x4 chamber without dispensers in yours.
The video also mentions @ ~11:25 (during gnembon's discussion of possible problems) the large area filled with solid blocks around the central farm. It looks like you have this in place from the first three shots, but this is not perfectly clear and the final shot doesn't make sense to me {taken looking upward from the void???}. This is also discussed @~17:10 in the other video (below).
You note "[t]op water stops at y:39" while @ ~12:05 here gnebom indicates the "bottom of all water tanks is at y=38" (lowest water? or floor?)
As I don't use this design (since before 1.12, as I don't need anything quite that fast), I've never resolved the ambiguity
I'm not sure how much effect any of these has individually, but any or all may help.
Looking forward, how do you plan on preventing Drowned spawns on the surrounding seafloor in 1.13/14?
I'm not trying to fully copy the video's design, cuz I have to add sth else.
Lemme try to break it down...
1. Bottom of the main drop? which picture?
2. Em, spawn rate is just saying guardians spawn per second I guess?
3. It's not fully made, in fact, since I wanna make this in a server, this is just a rough work. Hence, there is no hoppers below. If the corpse of the guardian rly have a great impact on the spawn rate, plz tell me.
4. Well, I don't rly like the 2x4 one. I just want a 1x4 one.
5. I took a screenshot from the bedrock to show you there they aren't caves nearby to spawn mobs.
6. The floor and the "top water"(or water tank, whatever) is at y:39, so I stand at y:40. Does it have a big impact on the spawn rate if the bottom of the water tank is at y:39 instead of y:38?
So yeah, again, thanks for the answer.
(The reason I made the floor at y:39 is because I heard that in the monument area, mobs don't spawn at y:40. So there won't be hostile mobs spawning at the platform other than guardians.)
Your view distance seems to be nine chunks.
There is a mob spawning bug when viewing distance is not set to at least 10 chunks.
This would cause mob spawning to be minimal and erratic.
The difference in mob spawn rates is not likely that significant between render 9 and render 10, it's probably not really that significant between 7 or 8 and 10 for that matter. At 5 render, it does start getting to be noticeable and around 2-3 is about when you might start wondering if perhaps you forgot that you switched to peaceful or accidentally turned off mob spawning via the gamerule.
Note that there are other factors outside of render distance that can produce similar results.
The other factors that I can think of are "substantial caves within 128 blocks not lit up" and "standing closer than 24 blocks to spawn area" ... anything else? Spawning area has very few spawnable blocks for some unknown reason?
Anyhow, he should set his view distance under video options to 10 chunks and see if that helps.
quote=YMbrothers
I'm not trying to fully copy the video's design, cuz I have to add sth else.
Lemme try to break it down...
1. Bottom of the main drop? which picture? Pics #2 & #3 ~3 up from the enchanting tables
2. Em, spawn rate is just saying guardians spawn per second I guess?
3. It's not fully made, in fact, since I wanna make this in a server, this is just a rough work. Hence, there is no hoppers below. If the corpse of the guardian rly have a great impact on the spawn rate, plz tell me.
The question ablout how you are determining spawn rate came from seeing threads where players infer spawn rates from the number of drops collected (which works IFF all the mobs die in positions where the drops are collected).
If you use something like carpet mod or watching the entity counts in the f3 screen this won't be an issue.
[Assuming you can summon a player to stand in the kill room(I know one can do this with carpet mod, but don't think it's possible in vanilla), watching in spectator mode will also work; otherwise being in spectator mode avoids triggering mob spawns.]
4. Well, I don't rly like the 2x4 one. I just want a 1x4 one.
The 1x shaft may lower efficiency as the guardians may be a bit less likely to be pushed into it... how much I don't know, much less whether the difference would be enough to be important to you.
5. I took a screenshot from the bedrock to show you there they aren't caves nearby to spawn mobs.
I understand... the perspective is unusual enough it took me a while to understand why it looked as it does.
RE the caves being lit: in pic #3 [4hLrs5P.png] there are an enderman, a spider, a skeleton and two zombies visible on the right. The shot was obviously taken in spectator mode, but this still implies they are with in 128 of the farm.
6. The floor and the "top water"(or water tank, whatever) is at y:39, so I stand at y:40. Does it have a big impact on the spawn rate if the bottom of the water tank is at y:39 instead of y:38? Another question that I've never pushed the optimization enough to be able to answer.... :sigh:
So yeah, again, thanks for the answer.
(The reason I made the floor at y:39 is because I heard that in the monument area, mobs don't spawn at y:40. So there won't be hostile mobs spawning at the platform other than guardians.)
No mobs (other than guardians) spawn within the 59x59 footprint of the OM from y=39 up to sea level; they will spawn in caves under it as well as in the area between the pillars (if dry)
I'm unclear about how much any of these effects the XP generation rate; what I did was try to find every differece between gnembon's desgign in his video and the test version you built with the idea that a number of minor differences might interact to produce the results you were seeing..
WRT the mention of view/render distance in the above posts, I'm unable to judge from the pics, but setting it to 12 (default) seems most likely to duplicate that part of gnembon's conditions.
So do you mean the design itself doesn't have issues?
It's just because my render distance is set less than gnembon's, causing the difference?
As ScotsMiser mentioned, my water tank might be too high, and my floor is at y:39 (I can stand on y:40), do u think these 2 differences are significant as well?
I don't know Mr YMBrothers - it's puzzling!
I observe that there aren't very many water spaces in this design, so it won't compete that well with dark caves if you have left any around.
You might want to fly around in spectator mode and nail the rest of the caves within 128 of your AFK position, and make sure that you're AFK'ing 24+ spaces below or away from the water tank.
I have a guardian spawner that's working great even though apparently there are still hostile mobs around someplace (didn't do the spectator mode trick.) I believe it's likely doing well just because it's so huge - something like 8000 spawnable spots in it.
I tried setting view distance to 9 chunks under my guardian spawner and at least in my case there was little difference. So DuhDerp had generally a good point there. Still, try ten chunks!
Ok. Thanks for all of your answers.
I think it's not the design issue anymore, and those improvements you guys mentioned, I implemented them.
Have a good day.
You're right minor differences like "water tank being a few blocks too high" are not going to cause the difference between 1-2 guardians/sec and some every 30 seconds. ScotsMiser was just examining all the contingencies.
The difference in productivity between darkroom spawners at y=200 and at y=32 might be noticeable, but things like making sure there are few or no competing spawning spaces and being at the right distance (>= 24 blocks at least) are much more important.