I am wondering how you get by without lag before even starting the trap. I normally run 200+ fps but standing in the center of my modified trap I get ~12fps :sad.gif: I think it has to do with all the signs...
Your video shows trap like this:
I made mine like this:
= pillar
= spawn block
= water
= sign
This gets more spawn blocks in less area since the water supposedly isn't needed. this also means a lot more signs in the same trap area which I think is what is causing the lag. It Is 34 floors of this with the grinding and water flow done on the bottom level like http://www.altdzin.com/mobgrinder.png
Green is Ladder
Red is Lava
Blue is Water
Grey is Stone/Cobble
Yellow is open shaft for items to fall into channel
Also, this only gets around 14k per hour... not sure why. Could it be the one large grinder floor is not as efficient as killing the mobs as the smaller grinders throughout? Could it also be because of the lack of the extra pillars that mobs are staying on the ledge longer before actually falling in? I noticed I was able to walk diagonally across the signs form one ledge to the other so I assume mobs would be able to also?
How reliable is this on SMP. If there is 2/3 people on.
I heard they dont work as good online
For some reason on SMP they stop working after awhile if the server senses you are AFK. Mine will work for about 10-15 minutes after I leave the screen then I have to come back and roam around the collection room a bit to kick-start it again... hazard of having it 800ish blocks form where everyone else is building lol.
I am wondering how you get by without lag before even starting the trap. I normally run 200+ fps but standing in the center of my modified trap I get ~12fps :sad.gif: I think it has to do with all the signs...
Yes. That's right.
I think that FPS(rate) is depends on the total surface area of loaded structures and animated blocks(lava and water).
Surely, It's important to reduce them.
I'm curious if this would reduce the amount of signs needed, while retaining the effectiveness of the trap.
= pillar
= where the mobs spawn
=sign
[] []
[] [] [] []
[] []
[] [] [] []
With this, there would be access to the drop from each spawn area,and wouldn't require a ton of signs. Do you think this would negatively affect the spawner's output?
Mobs can't fall down from some moss stones what are not neighbored on a wall sign.
I think that It is very hard to cut down some wall signs unless drastic alteration.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sorry. I cannot check forum on account of being busy.
Sorry to question but say "Distance: Omitting", not sure what you mean by this. I have made 2-3 Mob Traps, but i always run in to the problem of mobs not spawning due to me not being near them.
(I play on a none cheating MPS, i do have a team of 20-30 people to help with this project though)
I'm curious if this would reduce the amount of signs needed, while retaining the effectiveness of the trap.
= pillar
= where the mobs spawn
=sign
[] []
[] [] [] []
[] []
[] [] [] []
With this, there would be access to the drop from each spawn area,and wouldn't require a ton of signs. Do you think this would negatively affect the spawner's output?
Mobs can't fall down from some moss stones what are not neighbored on a wall sign.
I think that It is very hard to cut down some wall signs unless drastic alteration.
The mobs would always be trying to get from one space to the other space by walking on the sign, so they should still fall.
Taroun, you tried putting ice under yo channels yet?
No. I will not use any ice blocks, because the result of a test shows the following.
* The spawn cycle does not delay if spawnable area is larger than 5000~6000 blocks.
......and i would not like to install unavailable blocks as vanilla.
If building on nature ice, Notch approved
Quote from Darvince »
Quote from taroun1048 »
Quote from MrRube »
I'm curious if this would reduce the amount of signs needed, while retaining the effectiveness of the trap.
= pillar
= where the mobs spawn
=sign
[] []
[] [] [] []
[] []
[] [] [] []
With this, there would be access to the drop from each spawn area,and wouldn't require a ton of signs. Do you think this would negatively affect the spawner's output?
Mobs can't fall down from some moss stones what are not neighbored on a wall sign.
I think that It is very hard to cut down some wall signs unless drastic alteration.
The mobs would always be trying to get from one space to the other space by walking on the sign, so they should still fall.
Are the pillars for spiders?
Oh, i see.
I'm going to try to test them later. Thank you :smile.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sorry. I cannot check forum on account of being busy.
talking about geting more items per hour... this is a Transport system that I came up with back in Alpha 1.1.2... (long time ago).
unlike when you have a straight line of water you can only retrieve items that were dropped with in a 90 block line... (not radius)...
But with this diagonal transport line, you are able to retrieve items that are from the corner of a 180x180 square if you are standing in the middle...
Couldn't you just use the corner sign trick and receive items from a near infinite distance? (constrained only by the time taken for them to flow)
= sign
= water source
Think is, I have built the tower trap (with the sign that looks like the N*** thing), ...
That is the one I built at first and had the issue with them not spawning after a while. I did start to build 3 in the same area like so:
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] []
This "should" triple the output of the one tower with all item canals flowing to one location. I put the project on hold for a while after finishing the other 2 grinders(one whole tower is finished) and have not gone back to complete the towers for them yet. You could even do 4 grinders/towers if you wanted to enter from the top of the superstructure but on mine, my train comes up from the 4th side so no room for another tower.
I'm curious if this would reduce the amount of signs needed, while retaining the effectiveness of the trap.
= pillar
= where the mobs spawn
=sign
[] []
[] [] [] []
[] []
[] [] [] []
With this, there would be access to the drop from each spawn area,and wouldn't require a ton of signs. Do you think this would negatively affect the spawner's output?
Mobs can't fall down from some moss stones what are not neighbored on a wall sign.
I think that It is very hard to cut down some wall signs unless drastic alteration.
The mobs would always be trying to get from one space to the other space by walking on the sign, so they should still fall.
1. Althought mobs show a good falling down in both samples, the number of A is less than B.
(I was surprised at falling down in both A and :cool.gif:
2. A causes more stuck mobs than B.
These sticking is undesirable in terms of collection efficiency.
You can recognize them in the visual observation with skeleton texture.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sorry. I cannot check forum on account of being busy.
The problem with a mob trap in a non-controlled environment is that some evil piece of code seems to halt mob spawning in a particular area after a while ... At least in SMP
I made a trap on an MP server using my "sign trick" - legit, mind you -, and it gives either a decent rate or nothing at all!
For those who hasn't realized, these traps would never get these rate in a non-controlled environment; Even less so on a multiplayer server... It's just about pushing the theoretical limit
On a side note, the water on fence trick would make killing floors a lot less ass-paining to build ... Yay?
hmm...
Should I describe "Please don't try to build these towers on multiplay server." on this topic head?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sorry. I cannot check forum on account of being busy.
Most people could never use the amount of items the big mob trap produces anyway.
There is quite a bit you can do with loads of TNT lol. I made a huge lake with all the TNT I got from my first trap and that took quite a while. With this trap I could have shortened that time to a few hours of collection.
Taronu, think of the ice channels as a test of how a reduction in lag affects drop rate
I got like 20% higher item flow...
Edit: What about the "spawnable area larger than x ... "?
I see. I understand "as a test". :smile.gif:
and explain.
When I tackled the problem of heavy load, I thought that how large is needed spawnable area by the factory.
So I made up many kind test maps depending on spawnable area, and I compared them. there are a part of them.
I stood the observation point in the world of death(squids cannot even survive), and shifted difficulty to EASY, and measured the value of "ALL".
The factory operate stable if only it has 5,000 blocks over as spawnable area.
Those results......denied my HUGE factory......OMG
If a number of blocks what we must keep for stability operation is 5,000~6,000, the scale of a factory and canals will not increase too much.
So I will not use ice just yet. :biggrin.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sorry. I cannot check forum on account of being busy.
well right now i am trying to find the most efficent way to use up the space in my 272x272 farm... 272x272 is the size that mobs will spawn... also testing out a 2 floor of spawning per unit... to see what i get
Will having the pillar be floating make more mobs spawn? It adds a block of spawnable space for each pillar.
Quote from burntcustard »
why not try and make the smallest mob trap possible whilst still maintaining 1000 items or so per hour? Most people could never use the amount of items the big mob trap produces anyway.
Goto 2:52 in the video. Blade4 is what you want. It's the smallest version of this monster trap.
A Japanese fellow showed a result with a new spawn floor.
It's 64,000 items/hr. < Give me a break!!!!
Furthermore, he taught that it arrange the collection point deep in the ground for lag reduction.
I will upload the savedata reflected these ideas tomorrow.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sorry. I cannot check forum on account of being busy.
When you leave collection point, absolutely put lava block there.
You neglect to collect and it's freezed by heavy load.
**the uniqueness** dezuman : discovery and presentation of "wall sign trick"
2vHbcONF(my fellow in Japan) : suggestion of "water on fence"
iUEnSwqo8U(my fellow in Japan) : optimization of spawn floor taroun : establishment methodology of optimization by modularization and accumulation. and spider rejection.
-----
Thank you for your advice and cheer.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sorry. I cannot check forum on account of being busy.
Your video shows trap like this:
I made mine like this:
= pillar
= spawn block
= water
= sign
This gets more spawn blocks in less area since the water supposedly isn't needed. this also means a lot more signs in the same trap area which I think is what is causing the lag. It Is 34 floors of this with the grinding and water flow done on the bottom level like http://www.altdzin.com/mobgrinder.png
Green is Ladder
Red is Lava
Blue is Water
Grey is Stone/Cobble
Yellow is open shaft for items to fall into channel
Also, this only gets around 14k per hour... not sure why. Could it be the one large grinder floor is not as efficient as killing the mobs as the smaller grinders throughout? Could it also be because of the lack of the extra pillars that mobs are staying on the ledge longer before actually falling in? I noticed I was able to walk diagonally across the signs form one ledge to the other so I assume mobs would be able to also?
For some reason on SMP they stop working after awhile if the server senses you are AFK. Mine will work for about 10-15 minutes after I leave the screen then I have to come back and roam around the collection room a bit to kick-start it again... hazard of having it 800ish blocks form where everyone else is building lol.
Yes. That's right.
I think that FPS(rate) is depends on the total surface area of loaded structures and animated blocks(lava and water).
Surely, It's important to reduce them.
I'm trying to reduce based on BioFactory3.
(ref : viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=225793&start=60#p3309004)
Mobs can't fall down from some moss stones what are not neighbored on a wall sign.
I think that It is very hard to cut down some wall signs unless drastic alteration.
(I play on a none cheating MPS, i do have a team of 20-30 people to help with this project though)
The mobs would always be trying to get from one space to the other space by walking on the sign, so they should still fall.
Are the pillars for spiders?
No. I will not use any ice blocks, because the result of a test shows the following.
* The spawn cycle does not delay if spawnable area is larger than 5000~6000 blocks.
......and i would not like to install unavailable blocks as vanilla.
If building on nature ice, Notch approved
Oh, i see.
I'm going to try to test them later. Thank you :smile.gif:
Couldn't you just use the corner sign trick and receive items from a near infinite distance? (constrained only by the time taken for them to flow)
= sign
= water source
etc
That is the one I built at first and had the issue with them not spawning after a while. I did start to build 3 in the same area like so:
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] []
This "should" triple the output of the one tower with all item canals flowing to one location. I put the project on hold for a while after finishing the other 2 grinders(one whole tower is finished) and have not gone back to complete the towers for them yet. You could even do 4 grinders/towers if you wanted to enter from the top of the superstructure but on mine, my train comes up from the 4th side so no room for another tower.
I completed the test.
sample A
[]
[] []
sample B
test map
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23657130/BioFactory_test_AI.zip
1. Althought mobs show a good falling down in both samples, the number of A is less than B.
(I was surprised at falling down in both A and :cool.gif:
2. A causes more stuck mobs than B.
These sticking is undesirable in terms of collection efficiency.
You can recognize them in the visual observation with skeleton texture.
hmm...
Should I describe "Please don't try to build these towers on multiplay server." on this topic head?
with this, the mobs would just walk around on the railings, with a smaller area they have to go somewhere.... down! lol
There is quite a bit you can do with loads of TNT lol. I made a huge lake with all the TNT I got from my first trap and that took quite a while. With this trap I could have shortened that time to a few hours of collection.
I see. I understand "as a test". :smile.gif:
and explain.
When I tackled the problem of heavy load, I thought that how large is needed spawnable area by the factory.
So I made up many kind test maps depending on spawnable area, and I compared them. there are a part of them.
I stood the observation point in the world of death(squids cannot even survive), and shifted difficulty to EASY, and measured the value of "ALL".
Spawnable area -> value of ALL
13,000 blocks -> 77~91
9,500 blocks -> 77~91
8,500 blocks -> 76~91
6,700 blocks -> 77~90
6,000 blocks -> 76~91
5,500 blocks -> 75~90
5,000 blocks -> 75~91
4,500 blocks -> 68~89
4,000 blocks -> 59~88
3,500 blocks -> 61~89
3,000 blocks -> 52~84
2,500 blocks -> 44~81
I tried to compare 4,000~8500blocks based on these results with Biofactory3 rev2.
(3 times tests per entry)
Spawnable area -> efficiency
8,500 blocks -> 56~57k/h
6,700 blocks -> 56~57k/h
6,000 blocks -> 56~57k/h
5,500 blocks -> 56~57k/h
5,000 blocks -> 55.5?~56.5?k/h
4,500 blocks -> 53~54k/h
4,000 blocks -> 51~52k/h
The factory operate stable if only it has 5,000 blocks over as spawnable area.
Those results......denied my HUGE factory......OMG
If a number of blocks what we must keep for stability operation is 5,000~6,000, the scale of a factory and canals will not increase too much.
So I will not use ice just yet. :biggrin.gif:
Goto 2:52 in the video. Blade4 is what you want. It's the smallest version of this monster trap.
It's 64,000 items/hr. < Give me a break!!!!
Furthermore, he taught that it arrange the collection point deep in the ground for lag reduction.
I will upload the savedata reflected these ideas tomorrow.
I couldn't escape from curse of the fatness.
But try this! The load was reduced very much!!
-----
** Fixed ** 2011/03/23
BioFactory3 Rev5 72,500~73,000items/hr
savedata : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23657130/BioFactory3_rev5.zip
When you leave collection point, absolutely put lava block there.
You neglect to collect and it's freezed by heavy load.
**the uniqueness**
dezuman : discovery and presentation of "wall sign trick"
2vHbcONF(my fellow in Japan) : suggestion of "water on fence"
iUEnSwqo8U(my fellow in Japan) : optimization of spawn floor
taroun : establishment methodology of optimization by modularization and accumulation. and spider rejection.
-----
Thank you for your advice and cheer.