With the removal of various glitches such as water ladders and boosters, I considered myself glad that I didn't use any glitches for convenience in my own worlds. A few seconds later, I realized that I was incorrect. Pillaring, the tried and (currently) true technique of jumping in place while placing blocks under you, is another frequently used, but clearly unintended feature, even easier and more convenient than boosters or water ladders. There are legitimate ways to do the same thing, of course, with ladders or long staircases of blocks. It seems to me that removing this would be as easy as preventing the player from placing blocks while jumping (if Notch wants to be really good about this, he could find a way to make it only keep you from placing blocks below you while jumping).
So, my question (and my tl;dr) is this: Do you think Notch will eventually remove pillaring? If he made it so you couldn't place blocks while jumping, would it actually effect you in any way besides prevention of the aforementioned glitch? Do you think he would give us some sort of substitute that allows easy, temporary ascension if he removed it? How would you feel about the removal of this glitch?
Quote from Trinalsis »
Okay, so, general consensus appears to be: I woke up too early to think clearly when I thought this up, and it isn't a glitch at all. Alright then, good to know.
It's not a glitch, though. That's just how the game was made.
You're free to think that, but the more I think about pillaring the more it seems like a glitch to me. If you have evidence to convince me it was an intended feature, I'm happy to discuss it.
Edit: Unlike your portal example, this isn't integral or necessary to gameplay, ends up looking silly when done in most cases, and I just realized that my suggested fix wouldn't solve anything at all, it would just require two stacks of blocks and take longer.
It's not a glitch, though. That's just how the game was made.
You're free to think that, but the more I think about pillaring the more it seems like a glitch to me. If you have evidence to convince me it was an intended feature, I'm happy to discuss it.
Personally I don't understand why he's removing these "glitches" at all. If it's a sandbox game that you're aiming to make everyone happy with, I don't see what the point is in removing them. If someone doesn't like it, they can just not use it.
Personally I don't understand why he's removing these "glitches" at all.
Because it's a game that's going to be released to the public, and glitches make it look unpolished and unprofessional. It seems to me like pillaring would fall under the same category.
Okay, so, general consensus appears to be: I woke up too early to think clearly when I thought this up, and it isn't a glitch at all. Alright then, good to know.
Boosters and ladders were side-effects of the physics coding and not intended features. There were few people that didn't think they were glitches. I often argue that Minecraft isn't necessarily a good model of reality, but these two glitches were ridiculous. No one would look at minecarts with no other information and assume that adjacent carts would push each other away with maximum momentum. Same with water ladders.
But pillaring has a basis in reality. Let's say I'm carrying a backpack full of tons of dirt compressed into cubes on my back (like I said, Minecraft is quite divorced from reality!) Is it impossible for me to jump, place a block beneath my feet, then stand on the block? It's quite possible assuming I have a high degree of coordination and ability. In reality, this would produce an unstable tower and it's likely it'd topple, but if Minecraft simulated this it'd be a completely different game. (May be neat though; you could cause massive rockslides by digging out the back of a mountain!)
Even though it is *slightly* unrealistic, think of some of the other things we could delete with the same justifications:
[*:21v7s95g]You can't place a block in thin air. All blocks should behave like gravel and sand.
[*:21v7s95g]For that matter, you can't precisely place a block that's several meters away. Reach distance should be 1.
[*:21v7s95g]Few men can split a tree with their bare hands; no more punching wood.
[*:21v7s95g]Digging out a large, solid clump of dirt with your bare hands is very labor intensive. It should take > 1 minute or require a shovel.
[*:21v7s95g]Sand and gravel don't form a cohesive block; better delete them.
[*:21v7s95g]Lava should melt all other blocks.
[*:21v7s95g]Infinite sources of water don't exist; water should be finite and subject to evaporation.
I'm pretty sure if we went down that road Minecraft would be unplayable.
Maybe Notch will get rid of it one day, but I doubt it.
Personally I don't understand why he's removing these "glitches" at all.
Because it's a game that's going to be released to the public, and glitches make it look unpolished and unprofessional. It seems to me like pillaring would fall under the same category.
Not true, especially when they're "glitches" that improve the game, Look at the game GunZ, half of the ways of playing the game revolve around bugs, and without them it wouldn't be fun.
Um, glitches are how a game was made too... :/
I have no proof of my claim, but I think Notch once said that pillaring was an unintended effect. Where's the glitch love? Walljumping was invented from a glitch in the first Mario game, and now practically every game with jumping has it xD Also, didn't anybody love catching a Missingno? Patching harmless bugs only serves the ocd instincts of a very small number of people (Or jerks who can't stand other players playing the same game in a different way), while taking away the fun of people that enjoyed the glitch. If it isn't broken, don't fix it! (Broken = "Out of working order" as in, you can't play the game if something is broken)
Does pillaring bother anybody? Impossible, as players that don't like it can stop using it!
I'd agree that it's not a glitch but an intended part of the game. If your capable of jumping a meter high into the air a cubic meter block can easily be placed under one self. I'm sure it's an easy fix but with negative effects to those who already play the game. And that is the point, it's just a game. Doesn't mock real life in any way, shape or form. Why does it need to be classified as a glitch in the first place? The point of fixes bugs and glitches is to improve the quality of gameplay that the consumer enjoys. Personally I'd find it a real pain in the ass if pillariing was to be removed. but only time will tell I guess
I like how people posting here act like it isn't a glitch just because they "think the majority likes it."
Nice boosters btw people.
Bit more ontopic: It probably is a glitch, but i dunno if Notch will ever fix it. In a way it'd add a bit more strategy to building supporting structures and things since you can't just rocket yourself up 20 blocks onto a wall, it'd actually have alot of consequence on things like PVP where you're trying to build really fast.
Overall on that one i'd say 50/50 chance of it getting fixed, depends which way Notch wants to go with the gameplay. I'll admit it has saved me a few times when i fell in holes and things, but i could live without it, like pretty much anything else in this game.
The fun in games is adapting to change, if games just stayed the same forever they'd grow stagnant and dull, something people just don't seem to get.
1. It isn't a glitch. If I happened to be able to hold large cubes in real life, then I'd be able to pillar.
That's such a pointless example, the act of holding large cubes half your size and being able to more or less instantly place them anywhere is already a complete lack of reality, why would that constitute anything being true in the game. It's like saying the sky is blue so the sky on EVERY GAME must be blue, or in every PART of a game.
It being a glitch or not is whether it was designed with said behavior in mind, or at the least, if it fits the game world enough to be logical, a point i said was a 50/50 split on, it could happen, maybe it couldn't.
Quote from _Toby_ »
2. How would you fix it? Give me a reasonable response that wouldn't **** up minecraft, and I'll listen gladly
Remove it? How is placing cubes under you completely integral to gameplay? Alot of the time i NEVER place cubes directly under myself, i build support stairs on the side of things, alot of people consider it a waste of time to rocket yourself up on to each object when you know you're gonna get on and off it a dozen times.
So, it is only a glitch if it defies the game physics? By that reasoning, there is no such thing as a glitch :/ What exactly do you think a glitch is? Are you a programmer?
1. It isn't a glitch. If I happened to be able to hold large cubes in real life, then I'd be able to pillar.
That's such a pointless example, the act of holding large cubes half your size and being able to more or less instantly place them anywhere is already a complete lack of reality, why would that constitute anything being true in the game. It's like saying the sky is blue so the sky on EVERY GAME must be blue, or in every PART of a game.
It being a glitch or not is whether it was designed with said behavior in mind, or at the least, if it fits the game world enough to be logical, a point i said was a 50/50 split on, it could happen, maybe it couldn't.
That isn't a glitch, though, that's an exploit. A glitch is something that operates outside the mechanics of a game, such as the old one that made boats give you more wood back if destroyed by lava. An exploit is something that isn't meant to be there, but is there because of the game mechanics.
And this is neither. This is how Notch wants the game to be played, whether it was originally intended or not.
Therein lies the problem, by making it so the user is unable to place blocks directly underneath themselves, you would affect various things without realising it.
If I were holding crouch, then walked of an edge so that I could make a floating platform.
[] []
[] <--- Place block here
That fix would make me unable to do that.
No no no, that's not even the same, as someone else suggested it'd be the point of "jumping while you place blocks" to place them directly under you, disabling placing blocks while jumping would allow you to still do that if you are sitting on the platform, it has nothing to do with them being UNDER you.
Though i suspect you'll mention things like jumping at a wall and placing blocks on it, or on ceilings, i do such things myself from time to time, but as i said, people can adapt if gameplay flow changes to be that way.
No it'd be way too hard to make bridges and such if you can't place blocks almost directly under you.
It's not a glitch, though. That's just how the game was made.
EDIT: That's like saying being able to get momentum in portal by infinite loops is a bug... it's just how the game was designed.
You could claim this for pretty much anything.
The old minecart booster method was technically "Just how the game was made".
No, it wasn't. It was a result of Notch making the minecarts wider than 1 blocks because he didn't want tracks going opposite ways right next to each other.
So, my question (and my tl;dr) is this: Do you think Notch will eventually remove pillaring? If he made it so you couldn't place blocks while jumping, would it actually effect you in any way besides prevention of the aforementioned glitch? Do you think he would give us some sort of substitute that allows easy, temporary ascension if he removed it? How would you feel about the removal of this glitch?
EDIT: That's like saying being able to get momentum in portal by infinite loops is a bug... it's just how the game was designed.
Edit: Unlike your portal example, this isn't integral or necessary to gameplay, ends up looking silly when done in most cases, and I just realized that my suggested fix wouldn't solve anything at all, it would just require two stacks of blocks and take longer.
Personally I don't understand why he's removing these "glitches" at all. If it's a sandbox game that you're aiming to make everyone happy with, I don't see what the point is in removing them. If someone doesn't like it, they can just not use it.
Boosters and ladders were side-effects of the physics coding and not intended features. There were few people that didn't think they were glitches. I often argue that Minecraft isn't necessarily a good model of reality, but these two glitches were ridiculous. No one would look at minecarts with no other information and assume that adjacent carts would push each other away with maximum momentum. Same with water ladders.
But pillaring has a basis in reality. Let's say I'm carrying a backpack full of tons of dirt compressed into cubes on my back (like I said, Minecraft is quite divorced from reality!) Is it impossible for me to jump, place a block beneath my feet, then stand on the block? It's quite possible assuming I have a high degree of coordination and ability. In reality, this would produce an unstable tower and it's likely it'd topple, but if Minecraft simulated this it'd be a completely different game. (May be neat though; you could cause massive rockslides by digging out the back of a mountain!)
Even though it is *slightly* unrealistic, think of some of the other things we could delete with the same justifications:
[*:21v7s95g]You can't place a block in thin air. All blocks should behave like gravel and sand.
I'm pretty sure if we went down that road Minecraft would be unplayable.[*:21v7s95g]For that matter, you can't precisely place a block that's several meters away. Reach distance should be 1.
[*:21v7s95g]Few men can split a tree with their bare hands; no more punching wood.
[*:21v7s95g]Digging out a large, solid clump of dirt with your bare hands is very labor intensive. It should take > 1 minute or require a shovel.
[*:21v7s95g]Sand and gravel don't form a cohesive block; better delete them.
[*:21v7s95g]Lava should melt all other blocks.
[*:21v7s95g]Infinite sources of water don't exist; water should be finite and subject to evaporation.
Maybe Notch will get rid of it one day, but I doubt it.
Not true, especially when they're "glitches" that improve the game, Look at the game GunZ, half of the ways of playing the game revolve around bugs, and without them it wouldn't be fun.
I have no proof of my claim, but I think Notch once said that pillaring was an unintended effect. Where's the glitch love? Walljumping was invented from a glitch in the first Mario game, and now practically every game with jumping has it xD Also, didn't anybody love catching a Missingno? Patching harmless bugs only serves the ocd instincts of a very small number of people (Or jerks who can't stand other players playing the same game in a different way), while taking away the fun of people that enjoyed the glitch. If it isn't broken, don't fix it! (Broken = "Out of working order" as in, you can't play the game if something is broken)
Does pillaring bother anybody? Impossible, as players that don't like it can stop using it!
Nice boosters btw people.
Bit more ontopic: It probably is a glitch, but i dunno if Notch will ever fix it. In a way it'd add a bit more strategy to building supporting structures and things since you can't just rocket yourself up 20 blocks onto a wall, it'd actually have alot of consequence on things like PVP where you're trying to build really fast.
Overall on that one i'd say 50/50 chance of it getting fixed, depends which way Notch wants to go with the gameplay. I'll admit it has saved me a few times when i fell in holes and things, but i could live without it, like pretty much anything else in this game.
The fun in games is adapting to change, if games just stayed the same forever they'd grow stagnant and dull, something people just don't seem to get.
That's such a pointless example, the act of holding large cubes half your size and being able to more or less instantly place them anywhere is already a complete lack of reality, why would that constitute anything being true in the game. It's like saying the sky is blue so the sky on EVERY GAME must be blue, or in every PART of a game.
It being a glitch or not is whether it was designed with said behavior in mind, or at the least, if it fits the game world enough to be logical, a point i said was a 50/50 split on, it could happen, maybe it couldn't.
Remove it? How is placing cubes under you completely integral to gameplay? Alot of the time i NEVER place cubes directly under myself, i build support stairs on the side of things, alot of people consider it a waste of time to rocket yourself up on to each object when you know you're gonna get on and off it a dozen times.
That isn't a glitch, though, that's an exploit. A glitch is something that operates outside the mechanics of a game, such as the old one that made boats give you more wood back if destroyed by lava. An exploit is something that isn't meant to be there, but is there because of the game mechanics.
And this is neither. This is how Notch wants the game to be played, whether it was originally intended or not.
No no no, that's not even the same, as someone else suggested it'd be the point of "jumping while you place blocks" to place them directly under you, disabling placing blocks while jumping would allow you to still do that if you are sitting on the platform, it has nothing to do with them being UNDER you.
Though i suspect you'll mention things like jumping at a wall and placing blocks on it, or on ceilings, i do such things myself from time to time, but as i said, people can adapt if gameplay flow changes to be that way.
No it'd be way too hard to make bridges and such if you can't place blocks almost directly under you.
No, it wasn't. It was a result of Notch making the minecarts wider than 1 blocks because he didn't want tracks going opposite ways right next to each other.