Xaiier: For a second I thought your cart was still going after 2 irl days... Having said that, your data doesn't match what mine says (or the other way around if you prefer). My cart stops within one minecraft day. I wonder if it is because you have a circle and the cart only turns one way? Mine has lots of turns both ways, and I think turns make the cart slow down, but that is just a guess.
Mine is a ~25 long track with two "reversers" at the ends that utilize the approaching-a-turn glitch. I wanted to make a straight track as long as the OP, but I got lazy fast.
The two days of travel is insane though, for the simplicity. I counted 100 loops back and forth meaning a length of 2500 and it was nowhere near to stopping. Sadly a unmanned cart only goes around 15-20 times, but it would be very easy to just add lengths to the booster section until you reached the absolute limit.
I do believe turns do slow down the cart, but I am not sure. Because I am much too lazy to try to replicate your insane maze of tracks, it might be easier for you to make a simple 25 length loop and try your booster again.
As a side note, my idea would work nicely with a setup of a clock & repeaters down the tunnel your booster is in. Make them strobe in the opposite direction of travel to give the impression of insane speed. :biggrin.gif:
EDIT:
Something to work on now might be to see how we can use pressure plates along the line without losing too much momentum. If a cart got away from you, even unridden, it would still travel an absolutely insane distance and be a huge pain to go retrieve. If we could somehow add a plate inside the booster (using my system, but what would be the effects on momentum?) or contrive a way to use a small double booster to return all the lost momentum. Does anyone know if a cart boosted over a plate loses momentum in the same way as a non-boosted one?
Xaiier: For a second I thought your cart was still going after 2 irl days... Having said that, your data doesn't match what mine says (or the other way around if you prefer). My cart stops within one minecraft day. I wonder if it is because you have a circle and the cart only turns one way? Mine has lots of turns both ways, and I think turns make the cart slow down, but that is just a guess.
Mine is a ~25 long track with two "reversers" at the ends that utilize the approaching-a-turn glitch. I wanted to make a straight track as long as the OP, but I got lazy fast.
The two days of travel is insane though, for the simplicity. I counted 100 loops back and forth meaning a length of 2500 and it was nowhere near to stopping. Sadly a unmanned cart only goes around 15-20 times, but it would be very easy to just add lengths to the booster section until you reached the absolute limit.
I do believe turns do slow down the cart, but I am not sure. Because I am much too lazy to try to replicate your insane maze of tracks, it might be easier for you to make a simple 25 length loop and try your booster again.
As a side note, my idea would work nicely with a setup of a clock & repeaters down the tunnel your booster is in. Make them strobe in the opposite direction of travel to give the impression of insane speed. :biggrin.gif:
Oh, the difference could easily be explained by you riding the cart. For some reason I thought you were testing an empty cart. However if you are riding in the cart, I can totally understand it going for days (minecraft days..)
I would do a simple loop like you said, but I dont want to count 100+ loops... haha
When I first saw this picture, I just kind of went... guhh....
it's doubtful that someone will need the full power.
haha, yea. If someone is riding in the cart, there is no way you could use all the power here. My empty cart distance x put a rider in it (4300x12) gives over 50,000 blocks. That would be some map!
Quote from the8bitengineers »
I do have a solution for that though ... I'm just about finished with the tutorial
I would do a simple loop like you said, but I dont want to count 100+ loops... haha
Yeah, I stopped at 115 because I realized just how good this was and that I would be sitting there for a long long time. I can estimate that it probably would have gotten to at LEAST 300, meaning 7500, a number equivalent to the OP's theoretical max.
EDIT:
Quote from nightryder »
haha, yea. If someone is riding in the cart, there is no way you could use all the power here. My empty cart distance x put a rider in it (4300x12) gives over 50,000 blocks. That would be some map!
Wow...we really need to look into some more scientific facts and look at the Java files and calculate the actual max and the booster length needed. If we could make a booster capable of putting the momentum variable just under the limit, you truly would have perpetual propulsion. I am in a Java class (lol nerd joke) and so I will look into this.
When I first saw this picture, I just kind of went... guhh....
it's doubtful that someone will need the full power.
haha, yea. If someone is riding in the cart, there is no way you could use all the power here. My empty cart distance x put a rider in it (4300x12) gives over 50,000 blocks. That would be some map!
Quote from the8bitengineers »
I do have a solution for that though ... I'm just about finished with the tutorial
I look forward to it
Ah! You're twisting my words!! I don't have that solution in the tutorial- it's taking all my effort just to compact that damn counter.
During random searching, I came across this video (there's a schematic in the description). You should be able to use this to count out 16 loops (or 8 loops, if you drop off one of the bits). It looks a bit more compact than what you have now.
During random searching, I came across this video (there's a schematic in the description). You should be able to use this to count out 16 loops (or 8 loops, if you drop off one of the bits). It looks a bit more compact than what you have now.
Uhmmmm that seems quite a bit larger than what I'm using, im actually trying to get it to fit within the restraints I gave before, I have a new idea I'm testing, we'll see how that goes, but otherwise, I'll just make the tutorial and have to have the redstone just larger underneath.
Also I can't tell at all where to start with that thing. I'm good with redstone, not a real expert.
Alright guys, I know this is taking forever, but I'm just not happy with the counter, I can't make it small enough. If anyone knows a small counter that can go to 5 and can be reset, please tell me. Also, I can make the video, it just wont feature a very small counter. Your choice guys.
@icks
Gahhh I skipped over that post by accident! That last one you mentioned, the 5x10x4, that would be absolutely perfect, if I can figure out how to build it. I told you guys before, I'm not too solid on redstone terminology, so could you whip up a diagram for me? Also, in your post way back, you said the other problem with the counter I made was that the input couldn't give power for very long because it would just rush through otherwise. The way I made my system it doesn't matter how long power is given to each cell, because it needs to be activated and deactivated in order for the power to be passed to the next gate. It's like half a T flip flop.
I'm pretty new to minecart and redstone mechanics, so let me see if I understand what's going on here. As I have understood it, you've got a booster setup that gives your main cart the maximum possible amount of momentum (the maximum before it resets, as it would in an infinite loop) by repeatedly boosting it. You're also using a redstone counter to release the cart to you once it has reached the maximum momentum (after a certain number of boosts), which is kept in sync with the main cart by the 2 carts boosting each other back and forth.
Have I understood correctly or am I way off the mark?
Right on. The rest of the stuff is just discussion on how it can be made better.
I'm pretty new to minecart and redstone mechanics, so let me see if I understand what's going on here. As I have understood it, you've got a booster setup that gives your main cart the maximum possible amount of momentum (the maximum before it resets, as it would in an infinite loop) by repeatedly boosting it. You're also using a redstone counter to release the cart to you once it has reached the maximum momentum (after a certain number of boosts), which is kept in sync with the main cart by the 2 carts boosting each other back and forth.
Have I understood correctly or am I way off the mark?
Right on. The rest of the stuff is just discussion on how it can be made better.
Ooo thanks! I only know the basics about carts and redstone, so I've struggled to follow some of the discussion in this thread, but its really fascinating. Out of interest, do you know how many blocks of boost it takes to give a cart max momentum? What I mean is, for how many lengths of track does your booster setup have to boost your main cart for it to reach its top momentum value?
Thats actually something I have been trying to figure out with my ~80 long double booster.
I don't know much about it though so it's not going well.
(added momentum per block of double boost)*(number of blocks of double boost)=(max of momentum variable, defined by which of the 4 types of java "integer" variables it is)
Why not just have one really long booster that accelerates to just under the limit? Then use this booster as a central booster to your whole cart system
takes up more space but is much simpler and easier to test
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If the world generating algorithm was a person, it would be Bob Ross
Why not just have one really long booster that accelerates to just under the limit? Then use this booster as a central booster to your whole cart system
takes up more space but is much simpler and easier to test
That's one of the things we're testing on this thread, the effectiveness of it, but the tutorial I'll be posting if I can get ick's system (or with my own counter) will be compact, take less iron, and can fit within a station. Not everone can put such a long booster or has the iron to spare. My compact system shouldn't take much more iron then a normal station, plus no boosters later on. Sadly, it is a bit weaker than my first one...
Also, my booster isn't hitting the max number of go arounds. I intentionally shortened it once I realized how long waiting for the charge would be. It does utilize enough charge so that you shouldn't really need to go farther, and if you do, you can always just set up the system to have a longer charge time.
Thats actually something I have been trying to figure out with my ~80 long double booster.
I don't know much about it though so it's not going well.
(added momentum per block of double boost)*(number of blocks of double boost)=(max of momentum variable, defined by which of the 4 types of java "integer" variables it is)
Is this what you mean by double booster:
That's a booster I came up with myself after some experimentation with minecarts, trying to learn for myself what works and what doesn't. I have no idea whether that setup is well known already, pardon me if it is.
If you were wondering, the section of double-track is 7 blocks long. I've done some rudimentary tests with it, sending one of the carts round it (along one way then back the other being one round trip) different numbers of times, then releasing it and counting how many times it goes round a 20-block-long loop empty. I thought it was pretty interesting (hopefully some others will too), so here's what I found:
The x-axis is the number of loops in the booster system, and the y-axis is the total number of blocks travelled around the loop. The tests I did make for a really close linear correlation, as you can see. I'm such a geek lol, but I'm still learning about what works for minecarts, so please cut me some slack if I've just repeated somebody else's design unwittingly.
Brilliant. Truly brilliant.
Now try some different lengths and change it up.
As for what I meant by double booster, its a cart with a cart on BOTH sides. Check OP's pics of his main booster to see how this works. AFAIK it doubles boost amount, but thats something for you to test. :wink.gif:
As for what I meant by double booster, its a cart with a cart on BOTH sides. Check OP's pics of his main booster to see how this works. AFAIK it doubles boost amount, but thats something for you to test. :wink.gif:
Thanks! Yeah, I had the idea of increasing the length of the booster to see whether it gives any extra boost for the same number of times around, I'll look into it. By the way, I was testing my above system out earlier, I jumped in the cart after I-dont-know-how-many loops in the boosting system, and it sent me more than 3300 blocks before coming to a halt.
Minecarts with people/mobs in them travel much much farther. I believe somewhere earlier in this thread it was 8x or something?
Nice researching. Careful with that booster system though- it's essential a infinite loop. Although both cars end up stopping at one point, they are ping ponging their energy back and forth. That's why most stations use the gravity reset. These carts can still break, but I do believe they're a bit more stable than a normal loop. Essentially, when they both boost, and one of them turns around, it is simply boosting the other cart up to its same energy, as I demonstrated in my second video by using the cart with the perpetual motion to give my cart perpetual motion. So even though it stops, it gets back all the energy it just lost.
Nice researching. Careful with that booster system though- it's essential a infinite loop. Although both cars end up stopping at one point, they are ping ponging their energy back and forth. That's why most stations use the gravity reset. These carts can still break, but I do believe they're a bit more stable than a normal loop. Essentially, when they both boost, and one of them turns around, it is simply boosting the other cart up to its same energy, as I demonstrated in my second video by using the cart with the perpetual motion to give my cart perpetual motion. So even though it stops, it gets back all the energy it just lost.
And it's 12x
I was wondering whether this was just a re-jigged infinite loop, and I'm not sure it is. I think the fact that the carts actually come to a stop means this should be very stable. I've had tracks like this running for multiple days in MC without seeing them stop by themselves (I have seen them stationary after having started them off, but this could be due to mobs getting in the way as I didn't enclose them - I'm going to test this and see how long it runs when enclosed).
The problem is that both carts never are both stopped. Boosters work by bringing the cart next to them up to their speed and momentum, so because one is always moving, it will eventually break.
The simple fact that you can let it go more loops and it goes farther proves this.
The problem is that both carts never are both stopped. Boosters work by bringing the cart next to them up to their speed and momentum, so because one is always moving, it will eventually break.
The simple fact that you can let it go more loops and it goes farther proves this.
I see your point. In the infinite loop, as in my system, one of the carts stops each loop. The difference between that and mine is that in mine, each cart takes it in turn to stop and reverse direction. I thought this might be the key to making it more stable, but now I'm not so sure. Anyway, I've got one running in a sealed chamber where nothing can touch it, so I'll see how long it can go before (and if) it stops.
edit: you guys were right, it does stop after a while, which means this is just a re-jigged infinite loop.
edit 2: it managed 62 full loops before it asploded, which, if this system is equivalent to straight-line boosting, means 868 track-lengths of boost (62*7*2... track length=7, travelled twice per loop).
Cool. Try letting it go after 61 loops, then go AFK for a while.
Also try with the double booster. I want to see how much the increase is between double & single boosters, if any.
Mine is a ~25 long track with two "reversers" at the ends that utilize the approaching-a-turn glitch. I wanted to make a straight track as long as the OP, but I got lazy fast.
The two days of travel is insane though, for the simplicity. I counted 100 loops back and forth meaning a length of 2500 and it was nowhere near to stopping. Sadly a unmanned cart only goes around 15-20 times, but it would be very easy to just add lengths to the booster section until you reached the absolute limit.
I do believe turns do slow down the cart, but I am not sure. Because I am much too lazy to try to replicate your insane maze of tracks, it might be easier for you to make a simple 25 length loop and try your booster again.
As a side note, my idea would work nicely with a setup of a clock & repeaters down the tunnel your booster is in. Make them strobe in the opposite direction of travel to give the impression of insane speed. :biggrin.gif:
EDIT:
Something to work on now might be to see how we can use pressure plates along the line without losing too much momentum. If a cart got away from you, even unridden, it would still travel an absolutely insane distance and be a huge pain to go retrieve. If we could somehow add a plate inside the booster (using my system, but what would be the effects on momentum?) or contrive a way to use a small double booster to return all the lost momentum. Does anyone know if a cart boosted over a plate loses momentum in the same way as a non-boosted one?
Xaiier is using carts that he is in, nightryder, you are using carts that are empty. That's why.
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
Oh, the difference could easily be explained by you riding the cart. For some reason I thought you were testing an empty cart. However if you are riding in the cart, I can totally understand it going for days (minecraft days..)
I would do a simple loop like you said, but I dont want to count 100+ loops... haha
Edit: yea, as the8bitengineers said
haha, yea. If someone is riding in the cart, there is no way you could use all the power here. My empty cart distance x put a rider in it (4300x12) gives over 50,000 blocks. That would be some map!
I look forward to it
Yeah, I stopped at 115 because I realized just how good this was and that I would be sitting there for a long long time. I can estimate that it probably would have gotten to at LEAST 300, meaning 7500, a number equivalent to the OP's theoretical max.
EDIT:
Wow...we really need to look into some more scientific facts and look at the Java files and calculate the actual max and the booster length needed. If we could make a booster capable of putting the momentum variable just under the limit, you truly would have perpetual propulsion. I am in a Java class (lol nerd joke) and so I will look into this.
Ah! You're twisting my words!! I don't have that solution in the tutorial- it's taking all my effort just to compact that damn counter.
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
Heh, didn't mean it like that...
Uhmmmm that seems quite a bit larger than what I'm using, im actually trying to get it to fit within the restraints I gave before, I have a new idea I'm testing, we'll see how that goes, but otherwise, I'll just make the tutorial and have to have the redstone just larger underneath.
Also I can't tell at all where to start with that thing. I'm good with redstone, not a real expert.
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
Gahhh I skipped over that post by accident! That last one you mentioned, the 5x10x4, that would be absolutely perfect, if I can figure out how to build it. I told you guys before, I'm not too solid on redstone terminology, so could you whip up a diagram for me? Also, in your post way back, you said the other problem with the counter I made was that the input couldn't give power for very long because it would just rush through otherwise. The way I made my system it doesn't matter how long power is given to each cell, because it needs to be activated and deactivated in order for the power to be passed to the next gate. It's like half a T flip flop.
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
Right on. The rest of the stuff is just discussion on how it can be made better.
Thats actually something I have been trying to figure out with my ~80 long double booster.
I don't know much about it though so it's not going well.
(added momentum per block of double boost)*(number of blocks of double boost)=(max of momentum variable, defined by which of the 4 types of java "integer" variables it is)
takes up more space but is much simpler and easier to test
That's one of the things we're testing on this thread, the effectiveness of it, but the tutorial I'll be posting if I can get ick's system (or with my own counter) will be compact, take less iron, and can fit within a station. Not everone can put such a long booster or has the iron to spare. My compact system shouldn't take much more iron then a normal station, plus no boosters later on. Sadly, it is a bit weaker than my first one...
Also, my booster isn't hitting the max number of go arounds. I intentionally shortened it once I realized how long waiting for the charge would be. It does utilize enough charge so that you shouldn't really need to go farther, and if you do, you can always just set up the system to have a longer charge time.
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
Brilliant. Truly brilliant.
Now try some different lengths and change it up.
As for what I meant by double booster, its a cart with a cart on BOTH sides. Check OP's pics of his main booster to see how this works. AFAIK it doubles boost amount, but thats something for you to test. :wink.gif:
Minecarts with people/mobs in them travel much much farther. I believe somewhere earlier in this thread it was 8x or something?
Nice researching. Careful with that booster system though- it's essential a infinite loop. Although both cars end up stopping at one point, they are ping ponging their energy back and forth. That's why most stations use the gravity reset. These carts can still break, but I do believe they're a bit more stable than a normal loop. Essentially, when they both boost, and one of them turns around, it is simply boosting the other cart up to its same energy, as I demonstrated in my second video by using the cart with the perpetual motion to give my cart perpetual motion. So even though it stops, it gets back all the energy it just lost.
And it's 12x
Smart Booster Tutorial- Part 1 | Part 2
The many uses of Reeds!
Our first Megabuild
The problem is that both carts never are both stopped. Boosters work by bringing the cart next to them up to their speed and momentum, so because one is always moving, it will eventually break.
The simple fact that you can let it go more loops and it goes farther proves this.
Cool. Try letting it go after 61 loops, then go AFK for a while.
Also try with the double booster. I want to see how much the increase is between double & single boosters, if any.