Grimshad, for the record, what you want most gamers like to call toroidal loop. Which is the worlds of the 8 and 16-bit eras were shaped like in RPGs or what ever used a wrapping world map.
Toroidal is a fancy work for "shaped like a donut", now those old wrapping maps weren't an exact fit for toroids (because insides and outsides had same width due to being a square), but close enough.
I'm just going to go ahead and say that Grimshad should have left the words "Planet Like" out of the topic title because that is giving too many people the wrong idea. Grimshad wants a planet that repeats itself after going in direction for so long, like in old RPGs for the Super Nintendo, not make a cube shaped planet.
I just want to say something about the random generator not working in conjunction with wrap-around worlds.
With all random number generator algorithms in computing, there will be a point where the sequence of randomly generated numbers repeat. In extension, this also means that worlds generated in a finite direction will eventually generate the same sequence of world chunks. Computers just can't generate true random numbers, so the fact that eventually it will come to a loop is inevitable. Sure, it would have to be an insanely large number, but still.
Each chunk is 16*16*128 which equals 32768. Notch has said that there are about 70 unique blocks right now but he could have 256 maximum. Meaning that the number of unique chunks is between 32768^70 to 32768^256. A natural chunk only uses about 18 block types but my calculator can only go up to 32768^7 before giving my E. And since chunks are loaded as areas, not lines, the odds of a successful loop ever occurring is not an insanely large number but an unfathomable number. Even considering those blocks follow algorithms, not pure random chance.
Each chunk is 16*16*128 which equals 32768. Notch has said that there are about 70 unique blocks right now but he could have 256 maximum. Meaning that the number of unique chunks is between 32768^70 to 32768^256. A natural chunk only uses about 18 block types but my calculator can only go up to 32768^7 before giving my E. And since chunks are loaded as areas, not lines, the odds of a successful loop ever occurring is not an insanely large number but an unfathomable number. Even considering those blocks follow algorithms, not pure random chance.
You're assuming that each of those configurations is actually possible. They aren't. The terrain generator selects from an extremely limited subset of possible chunk configurations. Not only that, but it's only random in the sense that the noise function that the generator samples from is randomized once and then samples are taken from it later. The noise function is also periodic. It can't be anything other than periodic. The period may be very large, but it is finite.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Each chunk is 16*16*128 which equals 32768. Notch has said that there are about 70 unique blocks right now but he could have 256 maximum. Meaning that the number of unique chunks is between 32768^70 to 32768^256. A natural chunk only uses about 18 block types but my calculator can only go up to 32768^7 before giving my E. And since chunks are loaded as areas, not lines, the odds of a successful loop ever occurring is not an insanely large number but an unfathomable number. Even considering those blocks follow algorithms, not pure random chance.
You're assuming that each of those configurations is actually possible. They aren't. The terrain generator selects from an extremely limited subset of possible chunk configurations. Not only that, but it's only random in the sense that the noise function that the generator samples from is randomized once and then samples are taken from it later. The noise function is also periodic. It can't be anything other than periodic. The period may be very large, but it is finite.
It is still irrelevant. The world size is already limited, its just a limit that is so far outside of practicality it doesn't matter. And this limit is still long before the random number generator would start repeating. So whatever point you were trying to make is irrelevant.
Don't mind if I hijack this but I did make a suggestion of this exact thing and that's why I fully support this guy. He mentioned it would not be ROUND but rather WRAP. I love love love the idea, making inf not so redicuously, redundantly, huge, but keep that thirst for infinate exploration, and no world edges. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23061
you will see most of the ideas presented are very similar. +1 and fantabulistic idea.
With that mechanic, the world isn't actually round, but it's so big it loops, without a noticeable repetition effect.
That could be a solution for InfdevMP: limit the filesize of the randomly generated world, to like 10MB (or let the server owner decide that) and make it a fake-round world.
This is what I saw when I clicked th Dropbox link :
I got worried about your mental state until I saw that it was just their 404 message.
I just want to say something about the random generator not working in conjunction with wrap-around worlds.
With all random number generator algorithms in computing, there will be a point where the sequence of randomly generated numbers repeat. In extension, this also means that worlds generated in a finite direction will eventually generate the same sequence of world chunks. Computers just can't generate true random numbers, so the fact that eventually it will come to a loop is inevitable. Sure, it would have to be an insanely large number, but still.
True randomness only exist in the quantum world, and yet non-quantum random number generator are used everywhere.
Your local bingo hall could inform you on how a very limited set of numbers can create unlimited (for all practical purpose) sequences of numbers.
You guys seem to forget something with this square world idea.. You can walk around the cube, and gravity will essentially have to flip you to realign. That's fine and all... but imagine you're standing on the border of one of the faces, and you start digging down. What happens? Which face does the game think you're on? And if they game doesn't flip you, that means you could keep digging down-wards. Imagine what somebody on the other face sees.. you laying horizontally sliding across the ground.
Anyways.. you can keep the world the same as it is, but wrap it around when you walk far enough. for instance let's say the map is 5 chunks wide (1 - 5)... You're at chunk 5, looking to the right. You see chunk 1. You could just walk around the map multiple times, even though the map is technically flat and limited in scope. You wouldn't be able to dig from one side to the other, but this is actually a good thing as it avoids handling things like gravity flipping. The bedrock can be the illusion of the "center of earth".. Of course chunk 5 would have to seamlessly integrate with chunk 1 or it will be obvious what's going on. I would actually prefer this over our unlimited map size.. Instead of getting to the point where the game starts going haywire, just wrap the map before that.
Civilization games have a similar map type where...
The map is essentially rectangular... but the east and west wrap together.
So essentially the map is cylindrical, with an impassable north and south pole area.
there is a mode for a toroidal map where north wraps to south east wraps to west... but that's not necessary here.
I think this would be an interesting change for the game in that you could choose between a size of a world
instead of just not exploring to avoid making your map too large.
Then from the start people could choose like small medium large giant etc..
I think the current depth and altitudes are fine though, so there wouldn't be any kinds of "digging through the middle"
Adding a wrap effect to a fully generated world would also allow you to map things out definitely and also allow for an overworld map / compass. It would also keep compatibility with current maps where-in they could just be converted to a map size by adding more to it to fill out a "world" Then if the map is for example too large to be fitted to a "small" it would be bumped to the next up.
Having specific map sizes would also make minecraft more-compatible with consoles. So then if in the situation where it was decided to make minecraft as a console game eg wii-ware or ds-ware etc., having set map sizes would more easily accommodate that.
I don't think he means like literally round or a planetoidal "mario galaxy" kind of map
He just means like a flat map which if you keep going east, eventually you'll end up on the west end of the map when you cross the east boarder of the map to where it wraps around to the other side.
Sorry if someone has posted this already so you have a cube planet with each side in its own gravity feild, well what happens when you get to the center? do you simply float? does the compound gravity feilds rip you to shreds? crush you? also what happens when you run out of resources? ill admit this does sound fun ^^ and it would be pretty cool to have it as a bonus feature, as long as it doesnt replace the regular maps we have now
rrr...no mystify, planets our heald together do to the gravity pushing downwards on each side equaling intense gravity o.o some scientist believe the center of the earth ( the cores, core so to speak) is made of a material so compact, that its stronger than anything we have today
At the center of a planet, all of the mass of a planet is applying gravity away from you. These forces cancel out, and there is no gravity. Gravity decreases as you descend into a body of mass.
Mystify is right (pretty common, one would do well to get used to it). Gotta love physics...
Yep.
One more fun thing.
A perfectly round sphere that's hollow (with same thickness everywhere), will have absolutely no gravity inside said sphere (assuming no outside forces effect said sphere, or said sphere is free to "move" in relation to outside gravitational force).
Mystify is right (pretty common, one would do well to get used to it). Gotta love physics...
Yep.
One more fun thing.
A perfectly round sphere that's hollow (with same thickness everywhere), will have absolutely no gravity inside said sphere (assuming no outside forces effect said sphere, or said sphere is free to "move" in relation to outside gravitational force).
Yep, that's the shell theorem in a nutshell. It applies for any force field that follows an inverse square law. So the same applies to the Coulomb force.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Toroidal is a fancy work for "shaped like a donut", now those old wrapping maps weren't an exact fit for toroids (because insides and outsides had same width due to being a square), but close enough.
EDIT: Also, I like.
With all random number generator algorithms in computing, there will be a point where the sequence of randomly generated numbers repeat. In extension, this also means that worlds generated in a finite direction will eventually generate the same sequence of world chunks. Computers just can't generate true random numbers, so the fact that eventually it will come to a loop is inevitable. Sure, it would have to be an insanely large number, but still.
You're assuming that each of those configurations is actually possible. They aren't. The terrain generator selects from an extremely limited subset of possible chunk configurations. Not only that, but it's only random in the sense that the noise function that the generator samples from is randomized once and then samples are taken from it later. The noise function is also periodic. It can't be anything other than periodic. The period may be very large, but it is finite.
Do you know why? This is in fact Discworld.
Once you get to the last block of the rim you can see the turtle.
It is still irrelevant. The world size is already limited, its just a limit that is so far outside of practicality it doesn't matter. And this limit is still long before the random number generator would start repeating. So whatever point you were trying to make is irrelevant.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23061
you will see most of the ideas presented are very similar. +1 and fantabulistic idea.
This is what I saw when I clicked th Dropbox link :
I got worried about your mental state until I saw that it was just their 404 message.
True randomness only exist in the quantum world, and yet non-quantum random number generator are used everywhere.
Your local bingo hall could inform you on how a very limited set of numbers can create unlimited (for all practical purpose) sequences of numbers.
Anyways.. you can keep the world the same as it is, but wrap it around when you walk far enough. for instance let's say the map is 5 chunks wide (1 - 5)... You're at chunk 5, looking to the right. You see chunk 1. You could just walk around the map multiple times, even though the map is technically flat and limited in scope. You wouldn't be able to dig from one side to the other, but this is actually a good thing as it avoids handling things like gravity flipping. The bedrock can be the illusion of the "center of earth".. Of course chunk 5 would have to seamlessly integrate with chunk 1 or it will be obvious what's going on. I would actually prefer this over our unlimited map size.. Instead of getting to the point where the game starts going haywire, just wrap the map before that.
Civilization games have a similar map type where...
The map is essentially rectangular... but the east and west wrap together.
So essentially the map is cylindrical, with an impassable north and south pole area.
there is a mode for a toroidal map where north wraps to south east wraps to west... but that's not necessary here.
I think this would be an interesting change for the game in that you could choose between a size of a world
instead of just not exploring to avoid making your map too large.
Then from the start people could choose like small medium large giant etc..
I think the current depth and altitudes are fine though, so there wouldn't be any kinds of "digging through the middle"
Adding a wrap effect to a fully generated world would also allow you to map things out definitely and also allow for an overworld map / compass. It would also keep compatibility with current maps where-in they could just be converted to a map size by adding more to it to fill out a "world" Then if the map is for example too large to be fitted to a "small" it would be bumped to the next up.
Having specific map sizes would also make minecraft more-compatible with consoles. So then if in the situation where it was decided to make minecraft as a console game eg wii-ware or ds-ware etc., having set map sizes would more easily accommodate that.
I don't think he means like literally round or a planetoidal "mario galaxy" kind of map
He just means like a flat map which if you keep going east, eventually you'll end up on the west end of the map when you cross the east boarder of the map to where it wraps around to the other side.
The difference between a STRIP mine and a SURFACE mine
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WEEEEEEEEEEE
Yep.
One more fun thing.
A perfectly round sphere that's hollow (with same thickness everywhere), will have absolutely no gravity inside said sphere (assuming no outside forces effect said sphere, or said sphere is free to "move" in relation to outside gravitational force).
Yep, that's the shell theorem in a nutshell. It applies for any force field that follows an inverse square law. So the same applies to the Coulomb force.