Perfect accuracy is complete bull crap.
Even though you get your gun slightly longer range, and more damage, it doesn't mean that there won't be consequences other than a moderate reload time.
The amount of power and range it has makes the reload not really that much of a punishment.
Precision: 60%
Accuracy: 70%
The amount of power and range it has makes the reload not really that much of a punishment.
"Rummaging through inventory while standing still and being shot by up to five arrows (or getting slashed five times) is not really that much of a punishment for firing one shot at a time."
I think that's what you've just implied, my good sir.
And the gun only does more damage when it is already in range of bow.
And it has accuracy, but fires a limited distance.
Maybe it could stand to have a little kick as it fires...but I think the use of black-powder and cumbersome reloading balance it quite well.
If accuracy is a great issue, perhaps you could provide an example of how you think it would be overpowering?
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Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
Firstly, Christopher Columbus isn't a conquistador. He's British...
He's a freaking Spaniard (right?)
On-Topic: I think the bullet should have a slight time where you can dodge it, like a flash to know when he fired. That way, only skilled people could make gun kills.
First of all, this is by FAR the best firearm suggestion that I have read on here so far. It reminds of me ye pirates of olde, where they would carry like 7 loaded pistols on them instead of only one and having to reload it seven times.
As of now, the gun is vastly underpowered compared to a bow in both price and damage capability, but that's only because the bow is a machine gun right now. Hopefully the bow will be nerfed on multiplayer so it has a small cooldown, other than the delay of clicking caused by carpal tunnel. If so, then it will be pretty damn balanced.
It would also be cool if you could carry multiple loaded guns, because you'd be able to fire off more than one shot fairly quickly, but with the smoke that takes a few seconds to clear, possible knock back and recoil that could shift the screen, it wouldn't be as dangerous as shooting arrows at the same speed, unless you want to shoot blindly and rest your fates in Odin's hands.
Perfect accuracy is complete bull crap.
Even though you get your gun slightly longer range, and more damage, it doesn't mean that there won't be consequences other than a moderate reload time.
The amount of power and range it has makes the reload not really that much of a punishment.
Precision: 60%
Accuracy: 70%
I agree that the accuracy should be low as well, but I still say that it is only equal in damage to bows if it is at a very far range (so far it you will almost never hit), and at close range only if you can shoot and hit twice when you only get shot 5 times. I still can't see how a bow wouldn't be preferable to a weapon that isn't accurate, does only marginally more damage than the bow, and has to be manually reloaded each time. The only way I could see these being a better weapon than a bow is if a few people got 10 of these each, and switched guns to take new shots, which would be pretty good I may say, but one person with one wouldn't be good.
Actually, this gun could be treated like a distraction! Someone fires it, then another 2 guys steal the guy's loot while that guy goes after the arquebus man! Also, can it be used aganst mobs? Id love to make the skeleton jealous! :twisted:
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Quote from dra6o0n »
Magic have a bigger priority than Technology when it comes to combat, but Mining and Crafting a bigger priority to Magic.
Perfect accuracy is complete bull crap.
Even though you get your gun slightly longer range, and more damage, it doesn't mean that there won't be consequences other than a moderate reload time.
The amount of power and range it has makes the reload not really that much of a punishment.
Precision: 60%
Accuracy: 70%
I agree that the accuracy should be low as well, but I still say that it is only equal in damage to bows if it is at a very far range (so far it you will almost never hit), and at close range only if you can shoot and hit twice when you only get shot 5 times. I still can't see how a bow wouldn't be preferable to a weapon that isn't accurate, does only marginally more damage than the bow, and has to be manually reloaded each time. The only way I could see these being a better weapon than a bow is if a few people got 10 of these each, and switched guns to take new shots, which would be pretty good I may say, but one person with one wouldn't be good.
Firing in volleys?
We're miners,not redcoats!
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"Only a few find the way, Some don't recognize it when they do. Some don't ever want to..." ~Cheshire cat.
I still can't see how a bow wouldn't be preferable to a weapon that isn't accurate, does only marginally more damage than the bow, and has to be manually reloaded each time. The only way I could see these being a better weapon than a bow is if a few people got 10 of these each, and switched guns to take new shots, which would be pretty good I may say, but one person with one wouldn't be good.
But the Arquebus would have accuracy. Having accuracy is the entire tradeoff of using a weapon that requires manual reloading with every shot which (also necessitates being immobile) and copious amounts of black-powder. 100% Accuracy would only be attained if the player is stationary while firing the gun.
Doing a "shot from the hip" is not something that can be done with an Arquebus.
I'm also thinking that when the player pulls the trigger there will be a 1-second delay between the trigger-pull and the firing (essentially the period of time in which the torch lights the gunpowder). It would generate a "Sssss" sound similar to creepers (so, there would be another giveaway to the gun, in addition to the smoke and explosive sound).
I'd want to avoid people treating them like pistols and having 10 of them loaded and ready to fire in their inventory...but I'm not sure how that could be avoided. But perhaps if a player has taken the time to invest in acquiring/crafting 10 Arquebuses, as well as collecting materials to load them, and taking the time to load each one, it is somewhat reasonable. Somewhat. This makes me consider the idea that inventory should be segmented or segregated; the possibility of having a limited amount of weapons and armor in one's inventory. Otherwise players going into battle could just pack themselves with weapons, armor, and food. Change out weapons and armor on the battlefield and be veritable tanks that take ages to kill. Perhaps the 3 left-most columns could be dedicated solely to combat-related items, and the remainder to non-combat items. Otherwise we're talking about each soldier potentially wielding 12 swords, 12 food items, and 3 sets of armor.
I'll end there before I run off on a tangent though.
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Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
And just some brief reminders about the weapon in question:
-It would have a limited range, even when firing downward. The bow does not have a range-limitation.
-It would have ammo that cannot be retrieved. The bow does not have this issue.
-It would fire straight but only while stationary (no WASD input). The bow fires consistently even while running.
-It would need to be reloaded with every shot. The bow never requires reloading.
-It generates smoke, multiple sounds including an explosion, and light. The bow only makes a small sound.
-It does double the damage of the bow, but only when already within range of the bow. Otherwise its range is extended by approximately a quarter more than that of the bow.
If you're objected to a gun just because it's a gun...well, I don't know what to say.
Bow and arrows, and even Swords, add an FPS element to the game. To that degree, google "Age of Chivalry", and see what I mean.
I honestly don't think this weapon would break gameplay.
And I am of the contention that if a gun is introduced (which given that black-powder is present I think it is reasonable (but I've already ranted about that)) it should, and very well can, be balanced with the other elements of the game.
But balancing does not mean crippling it just for the fact that it is a gun.
This is also why I have suggested the Arquebus; a firearm in general is more powerful than weapons that rely solely on kinetics (as opposed to chemical aide (blackpowder)), but this one is old/low-tech enough that it is a step in a different direction, rather than a step above other weapons.
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Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
I still can't see how a bow wouldn't be preferable to a weapon that isn't accurate, does only marginally more damage than the bow, and has to be manually reloaded each time. The only way I could see these being a better weapon than a bow is if a few people got 10 of these each, and switched guns to take new shots, which would be pretty good I may say, but one person with one wouldn't be good.
But the Arquebus would have accuracy. Having accuracy is the entire tradeoff of using a weapon that requires manual reloading with every shot which (also necessitates being immobile) and copious amounts of black-powder. 100% Accuracy would only be attained if the player is stationary while firing the gun.
Doing a "shot from the hip" is not something that can be done with an Arquebus.
I'm also thinking that when the player pulls the trigger there will be a 1-second delay between the trigger-pull and the firing (essentially the period of time in which the torch lights the gunpowder). It would generate a "Sssss" sound similar to creepers (so, there would be another giveaway to the gun, in addition to the smoke and explosive sound).
I'd want to avoid people treating them like pistols and having 10 of them loaded and ready to fire in their inventory...but I'm not sure how that could be avoided. But perhaps if a player has taken the time to invest in acquiring/crafting 10 Arquebuses, as well as collecting materials to load them, and taking the time to load each one, it is somewhat reasonable. Somewhat. This makes me consider the idea that inventory should be segmented or segregated; the possibility of having a limited amount of weapons and armor in one's inventory. Otherwise players going into battle could just pack themselves with weapons, armor, and food. Change out weapons and armor on the battlefield and be veritable tanks that take ages to kill. Perhaps the 3 left-most columns could be dedicated solely to combat-related items, and the remainder to non-combat items. Otherwise we're talking about each soldier potentially wielding 12 swords, 12 food items, and 3 sets of armor.
I'll end there before I run off on a tangent though.
You Wouldnt stack those guns, you only have so much room... (my invetory would still probaly be sword, bow, food, and 6 arquebuses through. If people waist time making loads of arquebuses to become THE ULTIMATE KILLING MARCHINE, they wouldnt have room for meat, armor or other stuff as they wasted a lot of stuff on arquebuses. Also, they would still be seen after the gunshot due to its annoyance, so they would have to switch to another arquebus while the enemys are blasting arrows at him. I wouldnt worry on it.
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Quote from dra6o0n »
Magic have a bigger priority than Technology when it comes to combat, but Mining and Crafting a bigger priority to Magic.
I still can't see how a bow wouldn't be preferable to a weapon that isn't accurate, does only marginally more damage than the bow, and has to be manually reloaded each time. The only way I could see these being a better weapon than a bow is if a few people got 10 of these each, and switched guns to take new shots, which would be pretty good I may say, but one person with one wouldn't be good.
But the Arquebus would have accuracy. Having accuracy is the entire tradeoff of using a weapon that requires manual reloading with every shot which (also necessitates being immobile) and copious amounts of black-powder. 100% Accuracy would only be attained if the player is stationary while firing the gun.
Doing a "shot from the hip" is not something that can be done with an Arquebus.
I meant that I don't see how Foe can claim that the accuracy should be low, and that even then it would still be overpowered.
I really like the idea of a hiss before the firing, it would also limit the rate to which you can fire. Plus, Notch can add in recoil, and make the shot happen just after the recoil starts, making sniping still impossible in addition to weak.
I say that there should also be a very small "Super-effective" range, where it does 4 times as much damage as the bow, rather than 2.5. It would have to be very small, like 8 blocks, with an "Extra Effective" range around that lasting 16 blocks, which is 3.5 times more potent than the bow. 32 for effective, and then 64 blocks total range before they disappear. This way they are very effective at short range, but an iron sword still trumps it in speed, if not damage.
That would make the arquebus more like a shotgun! Maybe it knocks people back wards 2x as far too? I wana get behind someone, shoot it and they get shot of a cliff. (the hiss would make them turn around, but it would them go what... AGGHH!!!)
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Quote from dra6o0n »
Magic have a bigger priority than Technology when it comes to combat, but Mining and Crafting a bigger priority to Magic.
I really like the idea of a hiss before the firing, it would also limit the rate to which you can fire. Plus, Notch can add in recoil, and make the shot happen just after the recoil starts, making sniping still impossible in addition to weak.
I say that there should also be a very small "Super-effective" range, where it does 4 times as much damage as the bow, rather than 2.5. It would have to be very small, like 8 blocks, with an "Extra Effective" range around that lasting 16 blocks, which is 3.5 times more potent than the bow. 32 for effective, and then 64 blocks total range before they disappear. This way they are very effective at short range, but an iron sword still trumps it in speed, if not damage.
I was trying to mitigate the issue of sniping by having a limited range only slightly longer than the bow, but some kick-back might make for an interesting effect as well. I just wouldn't want the kick to be so hard that it's not worth using at all.
And otherwise you've definitely got the idea of what I'm...aiming for...with this gun, where instead of having a low rate of damage and a high rate of fire it has a high rate of damage and a low rate of fire. I also like your range adjustments better, I must say.
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Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
I was trying to mitigate the issue of sniping by having a limited range only slightly longer than the bow, but some kick-back might make for an interesting effect as well. I just wouldn't want the kick to be so hard that it's not worth using at all.
And otherwise you've definitely got the idea of what I'm...aiming for...with this gun, where instead of having a low rate of damage and a high rate of fire it has a high rate of damage and a low rate of fire. I also like your range adjustments better, I must say.
The kick back would be about third a meter at most, and move the direction you are facing upwards by about 10 degrees, and veer off slightly to one side or the other. That is what I think of for the total kick back, not for what happens before the shot is fired. I get the slow and powerful idea- it will be useful. As to my range adjustments, I used powers of two, just because those are better to work with for computers, I think.
I believe that the gun is evenly powered if not worst than the bow because you dont want to switch to the gun if you have stacked them that would take to long. (also they should take up to spaces just to be realistic)
Can you please make it so I can understand what you are saying? I can't tell if you think that this version of the gun is too underpowered, or that the gun that is implemented if any should be weaker.
Even though you get your gun slightly longer range, and more damage, it doesn't mean that there won't be consequences other than a moderate reload time.
The amount of power and range it has makes the reload not really that much of a punishment.
Precision: 60%
Accuracy: 70%
"Rummaging through inventory while standing still and being shot by up to five arrows (or getting slashed five times) is not really that much of a punishment for firing one shot at a time."
I think that's what you've just implied, my good sir.
And the gun only does more damage when it is already in range of bow.
And it has accuracy, but fires a limited distance.
Maybe it could stand to have a little kick as it fires...but I think the use of black-powder and cumbersome reloading balance it quite well.
If accuracy is a great issue, perhaps you could provide an example of how you think it would be overpowering?
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
He's a freaking Spaniard (right?)
On-Topic: I think the bullet should have a slight time where you can dodge it, like a flash to know when he fired. That way, only skilled people could make gun kills.
Actually, Columbus was an Italian by birth, more specifically a Genuan (from Genoa). He hired himself out to explore for Spain.
ON TOPIC: Still don't like the idea of guns.
Defend your words flexibly.
Change your words fittingly.
Let prejudice, popular opinion, and preconception be free from your judgments.
Still with you.
But at least Qwill provided an explanation. :tongue.gif:
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
First of all, this is by FAR the best firearm suggestion that I have read on here so far. It reminds of me ye pirates of olde, where they would carry like 7 loaded pistols on them instead of only one and having to reload it seven times.
As of now, the gun is vastly underpowered compared to a bow in both price and damage capability, but that's only because the bow is a machine gun right now. Hopefully the bow will be nerfed on multiplayer so it has a small cooldown, other than the delay of clicking caused by carpal tunnel. If so, then it will be pretty damn balanced.
It would also be cool if you could carry multiple loaded guns, because you'd be able to fire off more than one shot fairly quickly, but with the smoke that takes a few seconds to clear, possible knock back and recoil that could shift the screen, it wouldn't be as dangerous as shooting arrows at the same speed, unless you want to shoot blindly and rest your fates in Odin's hands.
I agree that the accuracy should be low as well, but I still say that it is only equal in damage to bows if it is at a very far range (so far it you will almost never hit), and at close range only if you can shoot and hit twice when you only get shot 5 times. I still can't see how a bow wouldn't be preferable to a weapon that isn't accurate, does only marginally more damage than the bow, and has to be manually reloaded each time. The only way I could see these being a better weapon than a bow is if a few people got 10 of these each, and switched guns to take new shots, which would be pretty good I may say, but one person with one wouldn't be good.
facepalm of the month- dra6o0n
Firing in volleys?
We're miners,not redcoats!
But the Arquebus would have accuracy. Having accuracy is the entire tradeoff of using a weapon that requires manual reloading with every shot which (also necessitates being immobile) and copious amounts of black-powder. 100% Accuracy would only be attained if the player is stationary while firing the gun.
Doing a "shot from the hip" is not something that can be done with an Arquebus.
I'm also thinking that when the player pulls the trigger there will be a 1-second delay between the trigger-pull and the firing (essentially the period of time in which the torch lights the gunpowder). It would generate a "Sssss" sound similar to creepers (so, there would be another giveaway to the gun, in addition to the smoke and explosive sound).
I'd want to avoid people treating them like pistols and having 10 of them loaded and ready to fire in their inventory...but I'm not sure how that could be avoided. But perhaps if a player has taken the time to invest in acquiring/crafting 10 Arquebuses, as well as collecting materials to load them, and taking the time to load each one, it is somewhat reasonable. Somewhat. This makes me consider the idea that inventory should be segmented or segregated; the possibility of having a limited amount of weapons and armor in one's inventory. Otherwise players going into battle could just pack themselves with weapons, armor, and food. Change out weapons and armor on the battlefield and be veritable tanks that take ages to kill. Perhaps the 3 left-most columns could be dedicated solely to combat-related items, and the remainder to non-combat items. Otherwise we're talking about each soldier potentially wielding 12 swords, 12 food items, and 3 sets of armor.
I'll end there before I run off on a tangent though.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
But we can be soldiers and warriors yes?
I'm opting for Dragoon. :tongue.gif:
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
-It would have a limited range, even when firing downward. The bow does not have a range-limitation.
-It would have ammo that cannot be retrieved. The bow does not have this issue.
-It would fire straight but only while stationary (no WASD input). The bow fires consistently even while running.
-It would need to be reloaded with every shot. The bow never requires reloading.
-It generates smoke, multiple sounds including an explosion, and light. The bow only makes a small sound.
-It does double the damage of the bow, but only when already within range of the bow. Otherwise its range is extended by approximately a quarter more than that of the bow.
If you're objected to a gun just because it's a gun...well, I don't know what to say.
Bow and arrows, and even Swords, add an FPS element to the game. To that degree, google "Age of Chivalry", and see what I mean.
I honestly don't think this weapon would break gameplay.
And I am of the contention that if a gun is introduced (which given that black-powder is present I think it is reasonable (but I've already ranted about that)) it should, and very well can, be balanced with the other elements of the game.
But balancing does not mean crippling it just for the fact that it is a gun.
This is also why I have suggested the Arquebus; a firearm in general is more powerful than weapons that rely solely on kinetics (as opposed to chemical aide (blackpowder)), but this one is old/low-tech enough that it is a step in a different direction, rather than a step above other weapons.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
You Wouldnt stack those guns, you only have so much room... (my invetory would still probaly be sword, bow, food, and 6 arquebuses through. If people waist time making loads of arquebuses to become THE ULTIMATE KILLING MARCHINE, they wouldnt have room for meat, armor or other stuff as they wasted a lot of stuff on arquebuses. Also, they would still be seen after the gunshot due to its annoyance, so they would have to switch to another arquebus while the enemys are blasting arrows at him. I wouldnt worry on it.
facepalm of the month- dra6o0n
I meant that I don't see how Foe can claim that the accuracy should be low, and that even then it would still be overpowered.
I really like the idea of a hiss before the firing, it would also limit the rate to which you can fire. Plus, Notch can add in recoil, and make the shot happen just after the recoil starts, making sniping still impossible in addition to weak.
I say that there should also be a very small "Super-effective" range, where it does 4 times as much damage as the bow, rather than 2.5. It would have to be very small, like 8 blocks, with an "Extra Effective" range around that lasting 16 blocks, which is 3.5 times more potent than the bow. 32 for effective, and then 64 blocks total range before they disappear. This way they are very effective at short range, but an iron sword still trumps it in speed, if not damage.
facepalm of the month- dra6o0n
I was trying to mitigate the issue of sniping by having a limited range only slightly longer than the bow, but some kick-back might make for an interesting effect as well. I just wouldn't want the kick to be so hard that it's not worth using at all.
And otherwise you've definitely got the idea of what I'm...aiming for...with this gun, where instead of having a low rate of damage and a high rate of fire it has a high rate of damage and a low rate of fire. I also like your range adjustments better, I must say.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
The kick back would be about third a meter at most, and move the direction you are facing upwards by about 10 degrees, and veer off slightly to one side or the other. That is what I think of for the total kick back, not for what happens before the shot is fired. I get the slow and powerful idea- it will be useful. As to my range adjustments, I used powers of two, just because those are better to work with for computers, I think.
Can you please make it so I can understand what you are saying? I can't tell if you think that this version of the gun is too underpowered, or that the gun that is implemented if any should be weaker.