But we can be soldiers and warriors yes?
I'm opting for Dragoon. :tongue.gif:
Congratulations, you are now a cavalry archer, that are also skilled in jousting, and melee on foot.
You will be the deadlier of the ground troops.
I meant that I don't see how Foe can claim that the accuracy should be low, and that even then it would still be overpowered.
All you need is a buddy.
Anyways, Cheese, increase the amount the kick back disrupts your orientation, and remove the super effective area, and lower the power and range of the extra effective thing.
It isn't hard to reorient when you have been slightly disoriented ( by 10 degrees ) by the magnitude you specified, and the super, and extra effective ranges make pulling out a gun in the middle of a sword fight too reasonable.
2.5 damage ( when armored ) times 8 ( super effective ) = 20 damage.
2.5 damage times 4 ( extra effective ) = 10 damage.
I'd rather go with an above average ( average being bow ( and above average as in B- ) ) damage inducing weapon with moderate ( 3-5 seconds ) reload time, below excellent precision and accuracy, low disorientation ( 20-30 degrees ) is good enough.
I know how much ten degrees is in "up" and "off to side" is.
The Tweak client taught me ( it had an orientation tracker ) .
1 meter = 1 block
The bow shoots as fast as you click ( 3 times a second ) .
You can move while the inventory is open...
I like how we went from Firearms to Christopher Columbus.
The idea is nice. But when you add in the whole aspect of guns you create a lot of controversy. People say u turn it into an FPS, some say its overpowered, underpowered, cheap, stupid, you name it. As long as it would be a hard thing to make and something to work for i think it could become a nice possibility.
Make it, unaccurate, slow reload, medium damage, rather bulky, and noisy. And a good point brought up, whats gonna stop someone from stacking an inventory of loaded guns and open fireing on someone with a sword. It could be a 1 per player limit.
I cant really see guns going anywhere. So il just stay out of the debate and let whatever happens happen. It might be nice to be able to create such a weapon, but the bow and arrow could probably still kill any person with a gun. I still dont understand why it is people love these stupid Airships and Mining carts so much (Why dont we just start making spaceships and teleporters and ray guns and moon rovers and nukes while we're at it, i mean cmon) It's Called Minecraft for a reason.
I meant that I don't see how Foe can claim that the accuracy should be low, and that even then it would still be overpowered.
All you need is a buddy.
Anyways, Cheese, increase the amount the kick back disrupts your orientation, and remove the super effective area, and lower the power and range of the extra effective thing.
It isn't hard to reorient when you have been slightly disoriented ( by 10 degrees ) by the magnitude you specified, and the super, and extra effective ranges make pulling out a gun in the middle of a sword fight too reasonable.
2.5 damage ( when armored ) times 8 ( super effective ) = 20 damage.
2.5 damage times 4 ( extra effective ) = 10 damage.
I'd rather go with an above average ( average being bow ( and above average as in B- ) ) damage inducing weapon with moderate ( 3-5 seconds ) reload time, below excellent precision and accuracy, low disorientation ( 20-30 degrees ) is good enough.
I know how much ten degrees is in "up" and "off to side" is.
The Tweak client taught me ( it had an orientation tracker ) .
1 meter = 1 block
The bow shoots as fast as you click ( 3 times a second ) .
You can move while the inventory is open...
I like how you ignored factual accuracy in your response. I had said that Super-effective would be 4 times that of normal arrows (2), and extra at 3 times the 2 damage. Super effective range is just past sword range, and would do 4 times the damage of a bow, or 8 damage. At extra-effective range, or 16 meters away, it would be 3 times as effective as the bow, or 6 damage. At up to 32 meters away, it would do 5 damage, and 2 damage all the way up to 64 blocks, in the low-effective range. Possibly, the bullets could continue up to 128 blocks, but do just half a heart and no armor damage. These damage numbers would be halved if you are in iron armor, with the exception of the super-low-effective range, which does just 1/2 damage anyway. The bullets wouldn't be fast enough that they could travel 64 blocks in the time it takes to move at least 3 meters to one side or the other, and the noise would be loud enough to be heard up to 64 blocks away.
The kick-back would be random, so you couldn't adjust accordingly. I still think that ten degrees is a good average- in short range it would be not much, but almost completely eliminate sniping due to the fact that you could only really get one shot it before alerting your target to your position.
Quote from Cyrix »
I like how we went from Firearms to Christopher Columbus.
The idea is nice. But when you add in the whole aspect of guns you create a lot of controversy. People say u turn it into an FPS, some say its overpowered, underpowered, cheap, stupid, you name it. As long as it would be a hard thing to make and something to work for i think it could become a nice possibility.
Make it, unaccurate, slow reload, medium damage, rather bulky, and noisy. And a good point brought up, whats gonna stop someone from stacking an inventory of loaded guns and open fireing on someone with a sword. It could be a 1 per player limit. :tongue.gif:
I cant really see guns going anywhere. So il just stay out of the debate and let whatever happens happen. It might be nice to be able to create such a weapon, but the bow and arrow could probably still kill any person with a gun. I still dont understand why it is people love these stupid Airships and Mining carts so much (Why dont we just start making spaceships and teleporters and ray guns and moon rovers and nukes while we're at it, i mean cmon) It's Called Minecraft for a reason.
I don't see how a gun that can only shoot once before reloading in the inventory screen, and costing one iron, one gunpowder per shot is that unreasonable. It should be accurate, but noisy and flashy, to eliminate sniping. I think that the noise, smoke, and recoil of the gun should be enough to stop sniping, by reducing the accuracy and guaranteeing that when that long-range shot misses, the target will know and get cover. A one-per-player limit seems slightly harsh, but maybe a limit of two could be okay. That way, you still have to re-load to kill someone, even at close range, as long as they have some iron armor on. If you have a friend who has two as well, then you could kill anyone at short range, but so could any two people with iron swords, or possibly just bows. A bow can still be competitive for this, because of the sheer speed it can shoot at (three a second as stated by Foe, which isn't as fast as it could be). Three a second means that to someone unarmored, fire arrows will kill, and fire arrows can easily hit you at short range in a few seconds. If you have armor, ten shots for the kill, very possible. Reloading one of these would take at least 3 seconds, and you can get hit by at least 9 arrows in that immobile period. If you are moving with your inventory open, you aren't able to see well, and cannot dodge very well. Anyway, it would take skill to beat someone with a bow with this, and vice versa.
There are bows and arrows. Guns are not needed. They are an unwelcome aesthetic.
Why? Because then we will have a fair gun, so no one will complain that we need to have a gun in the game because we already have one. Plus, it will give us another good weapon.
The arquebus seems like a shotgun. Its more effective close range. I can blast someone from behind with this, if he is alone if you think about it. the ssss may give it away, but the sss part should be 1/2 a second so people with ninja reflexes can dodge! Also, i think this idea is good enough to be suggested in irc to him.
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Quote from dra6o0n »
Magic have a bigger priority than Technology when it comes to combat, but Mining and Crafting a bigger priority to Magic.
Therefor the loading process should be like smelting, so it takes at least say 3 seconds to reload the gun.
Hmm...
Perhaps then just a mandatory cool-down between shots would be appropriate?
Because I don't think a "reload indicator" is something that would be tossed into the inventory panel. It would be a lot to add in just to facilitate one weapon. The process of going through the inventory is supposed to be what adds the time, and adds the weakness of being stationary.
An interesting take on it...I just can't think of how both could be combined.
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Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
What's the point of adding a weapon to the game if it has only disadvantages added to balance it out? It has no advantages, so why bother adding in the first place then? The only one I can see is insta-shot, but that's a given. If it's so crappy, people will prefer bows anyway. Noone wants an expensive and crappy weapon.
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"It is always nice to have a sense of improbability in Littlebigplanet. FROGMORTON. Heh, you didn't expect that now did you?"
-Stephen Fry
It should be slow to reload, have further range than arrows, but also have a somewhat unpredictable accuracy (early guns were not particularly accurate) Likewise, it should take a decent amount of resources to craft (as in the OP) and be subject to the same wear and tear that other weapons have.
I think it should do the same damage as a hit from an equal quality sword, however it's main advantage should be that it ignores any armor the target may be wearing. The original purpose of firearms was to penetrate platemail and thick armor that dominated the medieval european battlefields. Guns effectively made armor irrelevant on the battlefield because they could penetrate virtually any type of armor.
So in minecraft, using a rifle would be a one-shot chance to do some damage to a heavily armored opponent. Against a target that is not wearing armor, the rifle would become kind of pointless since a sword or arrow would do just as much damage and have a faster reload time.
Also, if boats are implemented, then guns+boats= pirates
What's the point of adding a weapon to the game if it has only disadvantages added to balance it out? It has no advantages, so why bother adding in the first place then? The only one I can see is insta-shot, but that's a given. If it's so crappy, people will prefer bows anyway. Noone wants an expensive and crappy weapon.
It's good to add in because it will be very useful in close range, as a shot fired when your opponent is very close, but not close enough to hit you with a sword. If they are within 8 blocks of you, it can do 8 damage, or 4 if they have armor on. That's a very good advantage to any fight.
I got a idea:
DONT delay the shot, knowing its crap at far ranges already. (and besides, player gotta reload or switch to another arquebus already)
No. It isn't going to be "crap at far ranges." It will be maybe two blocks off at upwards of 64 blocks, but you can still get lucky. Plus, the ssss is to alert the person as well as delay the shots.
This better deal devastating damage up close then, or im just going to stick with my bow & arrow because any delay+sudden change of events=me death, just saying, This gun better deal more dmg than a diamond sword, like 10 hearts (or 5 to armored) as if it only deals 5 heart dmg, i minus well you the bow & arrow. (I understand its meant to be fired once, then switch to something else, but considering arrows can kill in 5 hits, no point in a gun that takes 3 shots to kill someone with a delay and having to go through a long reload. Make the gun's dmg deadly, but if you miss, your doomed! (Its more of a anti-armorless weapon to me)
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Quote from dra6o0n »
Magic have a bigger priority than Technology when it comes to combat, but Mining and Crafting a bigger priority to Magic.
This gun better deal more dmg than a diamond sword, like 10 hearts (or 5 to armored) as if it only deals 5 heart dmg...no point in a gun that takes 3 shots to kill someone with a delay and having to go through a long reload)
I'd still prefer diamond swords to be the most powerful weapons since they are so rare.
A gun is a gun, yes, but it can't just be point-and-click-to-win.
And if the gun killed somebody in 3 shots, that'd be great, considering it takes at least five to do it with the bow and arrow.
Again, it's trading out rapid fire at low damage and easy reloading + crafting for slow fire at high damage with harder reloading + crafting.
One thing I'd like is for people to really get an idea for how much of a setback it is requiring black-powder for ammunition:
Play on the indev.
For the time of one day (in game) put all your efforts into crafting a bow, and ammunition for it.
Then for the time of one day, put all your efforts into acquiring the material for an Arquebus, and ammunition: 3 lumber, 3 steel billets, 1 torch for the Arquebus. And let's be a little generous, even; let's say that one blackpowder and one cobblestone ( ) block provide four shots for the Arquebus.
See which one has more ammo to spare once it's all done.
I'll probably do this myself too, just to see.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
One thing I'd like is for people to really get an idea for how much of a setback it is requiring black-powder for ammunition:
Play on the indev.
For the time of one day (in game) put all your efforts into crafting a bow, and ammunition for it.
Then for the time of one day, put all your efforts into acquiring the material for an Arquebus, and ammunition: 3 lumber, 3 steel billets, 1 torch for the Arquebus. And let's be a little generous, even; let's say that one blackpowder and one cobblestone ( ) block provide four shots for the Arquebus.
See which one has more ammo to spare once it's all done.
I'll probably do this myself too, just to see.
So I gave it a run.
I started a game, and immediately tried to get all the materials I would need to make a bow.
Conveniently the materials the arquebus needs are nearly the same, save for coal.
But on my first, second, and third day (playing on Flat, Square, Normal Size, Normal Difficulty) I saw no coal, or iron ore. By partway through my first night I made a bow, and with the rise of the sun and the death of skeletons I got 10 arrows with no crafting involved.
So...
Bow and Arrow : Bow completed day 1. 10 Arrows attained from skeletons. 14 feathers attained from zombies. No iron found for ammo. Number of wood rods is negligible (since they are so plentiful).
Arquebus: No iron found to even create the gun itself. No coal found for the torch. More importantly only 6 black-powder attained from creepers.
I understand that in a resource-rich environment (eg a well-made establishment with much at its disposal) it would be much easier to create and arm many Arquebuses, but I if you were oriented towards crafting bows and arrows you could easily arm and provide ammo for twice as many people.
I think it may have been mentioned already, but I strongly think that players should be able to craft arrow-heads from stone. It's a bit ridiculous that you can make a stone sword but not a stone arrow head (which is far smaller than the size of a sword). This would also serve to further the low-tech advantage that comes with bows and arrows.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
Congratulations, you are now a cavalry archer, that are also skilled in jousting, and melee on foot.
You will be the deadlier of the ground troops.
All you need is a buddy.
Anyways, Cheese, increase the amount the kick back disrupts your orientation, and remove the super effective area, and lower the power and range of the extra effective thing.
It isn't hard to reorient when you have been slightly disoriented ( by 10 degrees ) by the magnitude you specified, and the super, and extra effective ranges make pulling out a gun in the middle of a sword fight too reasonable.
2.5 damage ( when armored ) times 8 ( super effective ) = 20 damage.
2.5 damage times 4 ( extra effective ) = 10 damage.
I'd rather go with an above average ( average being bow ( and above average as in B- ) ) damage inducing weapon with moderate ( 3-5 seconds ) reload time, below excellent precision and accuracy, low disorientation ( 20-30 degrees ) is good enough.
I know how much ten degrees is in "up" and "off to side" is.
The Tweak client taught me ( it had an orientation tracker ) .
1 meter = 1 block
The bow shoots as fast as you click ( 3 times a second ) .
You can move while the inventory is open...
The idea is nice. But when you add in the whole aspect of guns you create a lot of controversy. People say u turn it into an FPS, some say its overpowered, underpowered, cheap, stupid, you name it. As long as it would be a hard thing to make and something to work for i think it could become a nice possibility.
Make it, unaccurate, slow reload, medium damage, rather bulky, and noisy. And a good point brought up, whats gonna stop someone from stacking an inventory of loaded guns and open fireing on someone with a sword. It could be a 1 per player limit.
I cant really see guns going anywhere. So il just stay out of the debate and let whatever happens happen. It might be nice to be able to create such a weapon, but the bow and arrow could probably still kill any person with a gun. I still dont understand why it is people love these stupid Airships and Mining carts so much (Why dont we just start making spaceships and teleporters and ray guns and moon rovers and nukes while we're at it, i mean cmon) It's Called Minecraft for a reason.
The kick-back would be random, so you couldn't adjust accordingly. I still think that ten degrees is a good average- in short range it would be not much, but almost completely eliminate sniping due to the fact that you could only really get one shot it before alerting your target to your position.
I don't see how a gun that can only shoot once before reloading in the inventory screen, and costing one iron, one gunpowder per shot is that unreasonable. It should be accurate, but noisy and flashy, to eliminate sniping. I think that the noise, smoke, and recoil of the gun should be enough to stop sniping, by reducing the accuracy and guaranteeing that when that long-range shot misses, the target will know and get cover. A one-per-player limit seems slightly harsh, but maybe a limit of two could be okay. That way, you still have to re-load to kill someone, even at close range, as long as they have some iron armor on. If you have a friend who has two as well, then you could kill anyone at short range, but so could any two people with iron swords, or possibly just bows. A bow can still be competitive for this, because of the sheer speed it can shoot at (three a second as stated by Foe, which isn't as fast as it could be). Three a second means that to someone unarmored, fire arrows will kill, and fire arrows can easily hit you at short range in a few seconds. If you have armor, ten shots for the kill, very possible. Reloading one of these would take at least 3 seconds, and you can get hit by at least 9 arrows in that immobile period. If you are moving with your inventory open, you aren't able to see well, and cannot dodge very well. Anyway, it would take skill to beat someone with a bow with this, and vice versa.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
Why? Because then we will have a fair gun, so no one will complain that we need to have a gun in the game because we already have one. Plus, it will give us another good weapon.
facepalm of the month- dra6o0n
Hmm...
Perhaps then just a mandatory cool-down between shots would be appropriate?
Because I don't think a "reload indicator" is something that would be tossed into the inventory panel. It would be a lot to add in just to facilitate one weapon. The process of going through the inventory is supposed to be what adds the time, and adds the weakness of being stationary.
An interesting take on it...I just can't think of how both could be combined.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
And make it pretty sad compared to the LIGHTNING SPEED reload of bows. By the time the gun fired, the man firing it would be a pincushion.
-Stephen Fry
It should be slow to reload, have further range than arrows, but also have a somewhat unpredictable accuracy (early guns were not particularly accurate) Likewise, it should take a decent amount of resources to craft (as in the OP) and be subject to the same wear and tear that other weapons have.
I think it should do the same damage as a hit from an equal quality sword, however it's main advantage should be that it ignores any armor the target may be wearing. The original purpose of firearms was to penetrate platemail and thick armor that dominated the medieval european battlefields. Guns effectively made armor irrelevant on the battlefield because they could penetrate virtually any type of armor.
So in minecraft, using a rifle would be a one-shot chance to do some damage to a heavily armored opponent. Against a target that is not wearing armor, the rifle would become kind of pointless since a sword or arrow would do just as much damage and have a faster reload time.
Also, if boats are implemented, then guns+boats= pirates
It's good to add in because it will be very useful in close range, as a shot fired when your opponent is very close, but not close enough to hit you with a sword. If they are within 8 blocks of you, it can do 8 damage, or 4 if they have armor on. That's a very good advantage to any fight.
DONT delay the shot, knowing its crap at far ranges already. (and besides, player gotta reload or switch to another arquebus already)
facepalm of the month- dra6o0n
No. It isn't going to be "crap at far ranges." It will be maybe two blocks off at upwards of 64 blocks, but you can still get lucky. Plus, the ssss is to alert the person as well as delay the shots.
facepalm of the month- dra6o0n
I'd still prefer diamond swords to be the most powerful weapons since they are so rare.
A gun is a gun, yes, but it can't just be point-and-click-to-win.
And if the gun killed somebody in 3 shots, that'd be great, considering it takes at least five to do it with the bow and arrow.
Again, it's trading out rapid fire at low damage and easy reloading + crafting for slow fire at high damage with harder reloading + crafting.
One thing I'd like is for people to really get an idea for how much of a setback it is requiring black-powder for ammunition:
Play on the indev.
For the time of one day (in game) put all your efforts into crafting a bow, and ammunition for it.
Then for the time of one day, put all your efforts into acquiring the material for an Arquebus, and ammunition: 3 lumber, 3 steel billets, 1 torch for the Arquebus. And let's be a little generous, even; let's say that one blackpowder and one cobblestone ( ) block provide four shots for the Arquebus.
See which one has more ammo to spare once it's all done.
I'll probably do this myself too, just to see.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
I think this would be a fair trade off:
Pros:
Gun does good damage against a target wearing armor
Cons:
One shot then you have to reload
Reloading takes time
Gun cannot be fired while the player is moving
In this way, the gun would be a useful weapon later on on the game when everybody is wearing armor, but before then a bow would be far superior.
I imagine they may be too powerful.
I mean, just imagine being able to hurl TnT at somebody.
It would be nuts.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
"CATCH!"
So I gave it a run.
I started a game, and immediately tried to get all the materials I would need to make a bow.
Conveniently the materials the arquebus needs are nearly the same, save for coal.
But on my first, second, and third day (playing on Flat, Square, Normal Size, Normal Difficulty) I saw no coal, or iron ore. By partway through my first night I made a bow, and with the rise of the sun and the death of skeletons I got 10 arrows with no crafting involved.
So...
Bow and Arrow : Bow completed day 1. 10 Arrows attained from skeletons. 14 feathers attained from zombies. No iron found for ammo. Number of wood rods is negligible (since they are so plentiful).
Arquebus: No iron found to even create the gun itself. No coal found for the torch. More importantly only 6 black-powder attained from creepers.
I understand that in a resource-rich environment (eg a well-made establishment with much at its disposal) it would be much easier to create and arm many Arquebuses, but I if you were oriented towards crafting bows and arrows you could easily arm and provide ammo for twice as many people.
I think it may have been mentioned already, but I strongly think that players should be able to craft arrow-heads from stone. It's a bit ridiculous that you can make a stone sword but not a stone arrow head (which is far smaller than the size of a sword). This would also serve to further the low-tech advantage that comes with bows and arrows.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.