Erm... Seriously? This thing is full of passive aggressive insults. We can see what points you're trying to get across, but some crap is unnecessary...
Really? I was going for just aggressive. I've said this to many users now, I will never ever feel any sort of guilt over what I write in this guide. This forum gets beat to death with improperly done threads and absolutely stupid excuses. This guide is here to tell you what mistakes to not make, not to make you hold your hand and make you feel bubbly and warm inside.
Unless the guide refers to you by name, anyone who gets offended means the issue is on the reader's side. Not the writer's. Many people have found this guide hilarious and read it in full because of that. I promise if this guide was non-satirical and all "nice" it would be half as popular.
So no, some of that "crap" is not "unnecessary".
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The Unofficial Suggestion Guide - Everything you need to know to not make goofy mistakes in a suggestion! Honestly though, you should really go there.
Whereas my argument is "Some of the suggestions that got shot down on this forum actually ended up being supported by Mojang in one way or another. Isn't this forum just a bit harsh towards suggestions?" My argument is very general and not very specific or academic at all. Completely general player impressions, no legal technicalities stuff.
I think this is largely because we can't trust others here. One day you'll be giving someone the benefit of the doubt, then they prove that you made a mistake by doing something completely idiotic. We're all tired of how the average intelligence of users here are stunningly close to Tumblr, so we may seem aggressive towards not-so-good suggestions.
As for the point about mojang adding things that got shot down, imagine if someone said to add giant spiky puffer fish that shoot lasers out of their eyes. It sounds ridiculous, but Mojang minecraftified them to fit in the game, and most of us who would've been against the initial suggestion would find it a great concept.
We shoot down things because this forum isn't about the concept itself, but the execution. Mojang don't read the forums here, so this whole forum is technically just a discussion forum. The difference between this forum and other discussion forums is that you have to conclude the suggestions. You can't leave them half finished or depend on others to help out.
This section is unique in that we're not just sharing our thought, but explaining and showing our thought, allowing others to truly understand what we're thinking. A byproduct of this is that people who don't understand this comes in just to share their thoughts, or tell others what they want in the game.
When you're writing a note for an idea box, doing those things are okay, but since this is not an idea box, but a place to express your thoughts in detail. If a thread is just what the writer wants, it just doesn't provide anything as meaningful as a thread containing what we want. We are the people which these threads matter for, so we are the ones who react (sometimes harshly) to them.
I don't really give a monkey's if people want to call it an "official" or "cannon" storyline or not, or whether the mere suggestion that it might be makes them clutch their pearls.
My only point was that Mojang supported the idea enough to allow Telltale to make it and put their name to it. So I don't see how they considered the idea unmentionable like most here would have.
In this case, it's not actually in Minecraft.
Just because nobody (including Nintendo) wants sports in a main Mario game, that doesn't mean we won't like a Mario game about sports. We don't want the sports in the platforming Mario games since it doesn't mesh well, but a spinoff sports game works well because it's a spinoff. It's the same for Minecraft, we didn't want a story mode in the actual game (and Mojang probably didn't want it either), but having a spinoff game contain a story works well as spinoffs can be completely ignored.
You don't lose out on any Minecraft gameplay, since the spinoff provides a different experience altogether. LoZ Skyward Sword was harshly received because it was an main LoZ game, and as such you would lose out on LoZ gameplay by not playing it because of the motion controls. Hyrule Warriors and Crossbow Training are completely avoidable since they're optional parts of the franchise, but since Skyward Sword wasn't optional (in the sense that by not playing it, you would effectively lose out on part of the main dish, rather than a side dish), it was a whole different case.
Basically: Spinoffs can get away with a lot more new things since players playing it for the gameplay will judge it by the gameplay, and players playing it for the setting while judge it by how well it's implemented. People who played Hyrule Warriors didn't judge it like it was a normal Zelda game, just like people don't judge Story Mode like it was part of Minecraft itself.
For the last time, I know StoryMode is not actually "in" Minecraft. It is not "official" ok? let's end that part of the debate. Why does nobody read? I admitted I might be incorrect about that a couple of times. My argument is really whether is was a "stupid idea" or not.
Also, if someone suggests an idea that well and truly wouldn't fit the spirit of minecraft/would not be a good business decision? Then why not simply not give it the attention the OP wants? No comments and a thread will very soon disappear. And since Mojang (most likely) will never read it, the worry that they will take it seriously and try to "Minecraftify" it isn't a very realistic one.
Why the need to be so aggressive? And yes, imo, you are often very aggressive here.
I get the idea you pride yourselves in being not warm and bubbly when someone makes a "dumb" suggestion, but you cannot hack somebody being "not warm and bubbly" towards the overall attitudes presented on this forum. We are all supposed to think it's so cool and un-pc how harsh you are towards "bad" suggestions. And no, this guideline does not have me nodding smugly in agreement like I get the impression it's supposed to make me feel. Instead it makes me think "whoa, these people are taking themselves a bit seriously considering Mojang will more than likely never read this. Chill out!"
This section is unique in that we're not just sharing our thought, but explaining and showing our thought
I do not really see that, just people going on and on about a fine legal quibble. Why does nobody talk about my main point?
For the last time, I know StoryMode is not actually "in" Minecraft. It is not "official" ok? let's end that part of the debate. Why does nobody read? I admitted I might be incorrect about that a couple of times. My argument is really whether is was a "stupid idea" or not.
Well, you openly said this:
Mojang agreed to put their name to it, that makes it cannon, even if it was arguably a poor decision.
And as for the "stupid idea" thing. I think that one was also covered. I don't understand what we've missed about that. That argument went for like 2 pages.
Why the need to be so aggressive? And yes, imo, you are often very aggressive here.
If something needs to be said, I say it. I don't sugar coat it. I admit I do word things in a nasty way without realizing it when I'm actually replying in a neutral manner, but a good chunk of people put themselves in really dumb situations because they weren't thinking.
I get the idea you pride yourselves in being not warm and bubbly when someone makes a "dumb" suggestion, but you cannot hack somebody being "not warm and bubbly" towards the overall attitudes presented on this forum. We are all supposed to think it's so cool and un-pc how harsh you are towards "bad" suggestions. And no, this guideline does not have me nodding smugly in agreement like I get the impression it's supposed to make me feel.
My goal here is not to make myself some sort of outspoken girl-fonzie. I don't care if you guys think me or this guide is 'cool' or not, all I care about is getting the point across, and if overexaggeration gets the point out better, I take that road. I don't need you to nod smugly, just as long as at the end of the day, you realize that suggesting Herobrine and "optional diamond dropping zombies" are stupid decisions.
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The Unofficial Suggestion Guide - Everything you need to know to not make goofy mistakes in a suggestion! Honestly though, you should really go there.
Well, I'm not much of a warm and fuzzy sort of girl...I don't feel warm and fuzzy about the first post in this thread for example and I don't feel warm and fuzzy about how people diss so readily on ideas, and I don't feel warm and fuzzy about people going out of their way to be all tough and non warm and fuzzy and I'm not gonna sugar coat it...so we're cool then? lol
Oh, wait perhaps we are not.... for I would have thought Herobrine would have been ok so long as he was introduced as an easter egg back years ago... introducing him now would seem a bit corny though.
And I actually was wanting to start more of a debate about how good of a business decision Story Mode was (that's what I meant by was it a stupid idea like people on this forum said in 2012 or did it turn out to be a good one?), I really never thought this would turn into a big deal about whether it's an official story or not. People kind of just leapt on that one point. As a player all I knew was that unlike most fan fiction it had an "official tie" to the main game, nothing more. And I think that's all that registers to the average casual player.
Mojang agreed to put their name to it, that makes it cannon, even if it was arguably a poor decision.
Ok, so wrong terminology. OK. What is the correct wording then? I mean obviously there is a legal difference between MSM and say, a mod or fan fiction on a server?
Oh, wait perhaps we are not.... for I would have thought Herobrine would have been ok so long as he was introduced as an easter egg back years ago... introducing him now would seem a bit corny though.
Well... Technically, he was introduced as a fanmake creepypasta that mojang took a liking too. He wasn't actually added to Minecraft though, and has been systematically removed from every patch since his inception.
Herobrine is a great example of freak-out gameplay, but I think he should only exist where he spawned, as a fanmade entity :).
And I actually was wanting to start more of a debate about how good of a business decision Story Mode was (that's what I meant by was it a stupid idea like people on this forum said in 2012 or did it turn out to be a good one?), I really didn't think this would turn into a big deal about whether it's an official story or not. People kind of just leapt on that one point. As a player all I knew was that unlike most fan fiction it had an "official tie" to the main game, nothing more.
That would be an interesting discussion and one I'd be interested in entertaining; though I think you should create it as a new discussion in the discussion forum instead.
Ok, so wrong terminology. OK.
Happens to the best of us. Compulsory education in the US enforces 12 years of English with an additional 2-4 tacked on for secondary education and we still get it wrong. It's really hard to English.
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And I actually was wanting to start more of a debate about how good of a business decision Story Mode was (that's what I meant by was it a stupid idea like people on this forum said in 2012 or did it turn out to be a good one?), I really never thought this would turn into a big deal about whether it's an official story or not. People kind of just leapt on that one point. As a player all I knew was that unlike most fan fiction it had an "official tie" to the main game, nothing more. And I think that's all that registers to the average casual player.
Not every "story mode" suggestion was bashed to the ground. Even way back in like 2011, some of them held up for a bit but all of them were unsuccessful one way or another.
The most common thing people mention is that it's best to just make up your own origins in the game, rather than having something definite that not everyone will like. A game where you reshape the entire world doesn't need any story to make it better. Some people suggested having a bit of lore to the game, which wouldn't be terrible, but again, it's still best for people to just make up their own thing.
A lot of the stories people suggest are very generic and... well, crap. It's almost like someone going "here's my fanfic of minecraftia!!!! please make it official and add it to vanilla!!!!" Those posters are not exactly professional writers, not that it would matter anyway. Some also think "all these other games have stories so minecraft needs one" which is a stupid, empty fallacy people lock into their minds.
Imagine if Garry's Mod had a story. Sure, you could have it, but it's utterly pointless and only a fraction of people would like or care about it.
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Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
And as for the "stupid idea" thing. I think that one was also covered. I don't understand what we've missed about that. That argument went for like 2 pages.
If something needs to be said, I say it. I don't sugar coat it. I admit I do word things in a nasty way without realizing it when I'm actually replying in a neutral manner, but a good chunk of people put themselves in really dumb situations because they weren't thinking.
My goal here is not to make myself some sort of outspoken girl-fonzie. I don't care if you guys think me or this guide is 'cool' or not, all I care about is getting the point across, and if overexaggeration gets the point out better, I take that road. I don't need you to nod smugly, just as long as at the end of the day, you realize that suggesting Herobrine and "optional diamond dropping zombies" are stupid decisions.
Zombies drop diamond tools as seen on the minecraft wiki even if its a rare chance,as seen mojang seems to know how to add things without breaking the game.
about the guide tough we are not sugar coating it,most people that read the guide here could confuse this and would start being rude at people,because they didnt like the suggestion.
i have seen people being rude at people that made a suggestion, that didnt deserve to be threated that way on some cases the suggestion was useful,funny and balanced.
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Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: the requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move
about the guide tough we are not sugar coating it,most people that read the guide here could confuse this and would start being rude at people,because they didnt like the suggestion.
That falls more on the critics, and not the people making the suggestion. If this guide somehow turns people mean, that's on the end of that person and not the guide. Or perhaps the person was already cruel to begin with.
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Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
i have seen people being rude at people that made a suggestion, that didnt deserve to be threated that way on some cases the suggestion was useful,funny and balanced.
There's not really much reason in being rude. It's unfortunate that blind truth can be seen as rude; but sometimes thems the breaks. FTC does attempt to rear people away from toxic behavior. I can't speak to the level of success, but I would hope that it is seen as a basis of common sense and moreover; a plea for everyone to drop the toxicity and only look at a suggestion as empirically as possible. Expecting this from everyone is altruistic and impossible. Because of this, I give credence to take the 11 and turn it into a 3.
Don't be perfect, but make an attempt to approach it.
I want to point out in the list of examples that in order to prevent links from breaking (some of them seem to use google redirects or something?), instead of having the entire link as the URL like this:
should stop links from breaking. The forum is designed to automatically get rid of everything after that code and fill it with whatever the current title is, but the forum can screw it up sometimes. That thread ID should never change, at least in my experience.
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Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
For the last time, I know StoryMode is not actually "in" Minecraft. It is not "official" ok? let's end that part of the debate. Why does nobody read? I admitted I might be incorrect about that a couple of times. My argument is really whether is was a "stupid idea" or not.
"I'm going to treat others as if they're rude to me so I can be a victim!"
I'm mentioning it because there is a huge difference between what the main games of franchises do, and what the spinoffs does. Just because something would be horrible in a main game doesn't mean that a spinoff can't be made with it.
Also, if someone suggests an idea that well and truly wouldn't fit the spirit of minecraft/would not be a good business decision? Then why not simply not give it the attention the OP wants? No comments and a thread will very soon disappear. And since Mojang (most likely) will never read it, the worry that they will take it seriously and try to "Minecraftify" it isn't a very realistic one.
Mojang literally do not check this forum, they have a reddit page for suggestions. The only point of making a thread here is to share ideas in a more "professional" way than making a "Should X be added to Minecraft?" thread on the general discussion section. And, spoiler alert, that's what most of us does, and treating this place like a suggestion box for Mojang usually ends in vague threads that don't have much discussion value (since the OP didn't consider whether their idea was actually good, only that they wanted it, so surely someone else would want it, right?)
Why the need to be so aggressive? And yes, imo, you are often very aggressive here.
I'm only as aggressive as I need to be to make my point. People here are more often than not so thick headed that they can't manage to use basic socializing abilities. The reason I'm aggressive to you is because you're clearly not in a state where speaking calmly would make much of a difference.
I get the idea you pride yourselves in being not warm and bubbly when someone makes a "dumb" suggestion, but you cannot hack somebody being "not warm and bubbly" towards the overall attitudes presented on this forum. We are all supposed to think it's so cool and un-pc how harsh you are towards "bad" suggestions. And no, this guideline does not have me nodding smugly in agreement like I get the impression it's supposed to make me feel. Instead it makes me think "whoa, these people are taking themselves a bit seriously considering Mojang will more than likely never read this. Chill out!"
I don't pride myself in being "rude", it's simply a necessary evil to make sure the point is clear. You (referring to the imaginary creator of an imaginary thread, not you) made a horrible suggestion with no thought put into it, and you should do something to improve yourself.
I do not really see that, just people going on and on about a fine legal quibble. Why does nobody talk about my main point?
You hardly replied to more than a few parts of my post, so stop being so hypocritical.
I want to point out in the list of examples that in order to prevent links from breaking (some of them seem to use google redirects or something?), instead of having the entire link as the URL.
should stop links from breaking. The forum is designed to automatically get rid of everything after that code and fill it with whatever the current title is, but the forum can screw it up sometimes. That thread ID should never change, at least in my experience.
I've literally been doing this for ages, and people still haven't realized this is possible yet? Now people will know, once and for all...
Also, even though the OP specifically says they will 'never redo the guide so it's "nicer to people"', that isn't the way the forums work. Reading through it I see a lot of things that are abrasive at best, and downright mean and rude at worst. The actual lessons it teaches are great, but the way things are said could be improved. I'm going to read through it a few times and talk it over with the other Minecraft Discussion staff to see if it needs to be revised, and then we can go from there, working with Theriasis and the other major contributors to this thread. It might not even need to be changed at all, jefe has the final say on that.
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Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
about the guide tough we are not sugar coating it,most people that read the guide here could confuse this and would start being rude at people,because they didnt like the suggestion.
i have seen people being rude at people that made a suggestion, that didnt deserve to be threated that way on some cases the suggestion was useful,funny and balanced.
I think that since there is a guideline for posting suggestions, we should also have a guideline for posting replies to suggestions. If we agree that people can use sayings like "Well Minecraft has wack stuff in it already" and "oh, I'm new here" to defend their poorly thought out ideas, we also have to agree that people can say stuff like "sometimes being abrasive is a necessary evil" or "I don't sugar coat" or "I tell it as I see it" to defend narrow mindedness, irrational dislike or sometimes just downright uncalled for rudeness.
And also since people got the wrong end of the stick over my MSM example, how about another (this time hypothetical) example. Can you imagine if the idea of Mooshroom Islands had been a suggestion on this forum? The idea sounds extremely awkward when you try to describe it in writing, yet it's something that exists in the main game, not as a spin off, and Mooshroom Biomes are generally a well loved well accepted part of minecraft. Yet I think the nether would freeze over before it got one bit of support here, had it been merely a suggestion. The idea breaks almost every single one of the guidelines in this thread I'd imagine it would have gone down something like this:
OP: "Hi, I'm new and I have an idea for you. I have a new biome in mind. This would be as island biome out in deep ocean that would be covered in giant red and brown mushrooms. They would look like the mushrooms we already have except 5 blocks high. The entire surface of the island would be covered in a new block we would call Mycelium, which in real life is the branching root part of a fungus, and it would connect up the mushrooms so the whole island would be like one giant fungal organism! In real life it's white but I think it should be purple because that goes well with red. Anyhow the biome would also be home to cows that would be textured to resemble a mushroom and also have small mushrooms growing off them. They would be called Mooshrooms (see what I did there!). They would give infinite mushroom stew when milked. This sounds OP, but really it's not, because the biome would be very rare and you might have to travel 20000 blocks to see it. BTW I heard Jeb mention something about giant mushrooms so don't hate on my suggestion too much.
yosh9048: Get a grip
OP: Er, ok, mods please lock this.
Now don't get me wrong, there are some wacky ideas which would be completely ill suited to the game and shouldn't be supported. But isn't this forum too closed minded and aggressive towards new suggestions?
I think that since there is a guideline for posting suggestions, we should also have a guideline for posting replies to suggestions. If we agree that people can use sayings like "Well Minecraft has wack stuff in it already" and "oh, I'm new here" to defend their poorly thought out ideas, we also have to agree that people can say stuff like "sometimes being abrasive is a necessary evil" or "I don't sugar coat" or "I tell it as I see it" to defend narrow mindedness, irrational dislike or sometimes just downright uncalled for rudeness.
There is a guideline dedicated to "replying to suggestions", more appropriately named as "For The Critics". And excuses like that are technically already covered in the guideline. If not, then suggest it, the OP may decide on adding it or not depending on if it's necessary.
And also since people got the wrong end of the stick over my MSM example, how about another (this time hypothetical) example. Can you imagine if the idea of Mooshroom Islands had been a suggestion on this forum? The idea sounds extremely awkward when you try to describe it in writing, yet it's something that exists in the main game, not as a spin off, and Mooshroom Biomes are generally a well loved well accepted part of minecraft. Yet I think the nether would freeze over before it got one bit of support here, had it been merely a suggestion. The idea breaks almost every single one of the guidelines in this thread I'd imagine it would have gone down something like this:
OP: "Hi, I'm new and I have an idea for you. I have a new biome in mind. This would be as island biome out in deep ocean that would be covered in giant red and brown mushrooms. They would look like the mushrooms we already have except 5 blocks high. The entire surface of the island would be covered in a new block we would call Mycelium, which in real life is the branching root part of a fungus, and it would connect up the mushrooms so the whole island would be like one giant fungal organism! In real life it's white but I think it should be purple because that goes well with red. Anyhow the biome would also be home to cows that would be textured to resemble a mushroom and also have small mushrooms growing off them. They would be called Mooshrooms (see what I did there!). They would give infinite mushroom stew when milked. This sounds OP, but really it's not, because the biome would be very rare and you might have to travel 20000 blocks to see it. BTW I heard Jeb mention something about giant mushrooms so don't hate on my suggestion too much.
yosh9048: Get a grip
OP: Er, ok, mods please lock this.
Honestly, a critic with common sense and a thirst for hearing other ideas and trying to help people on them, while also balancing on saying what's wrong, I would indeed support something like this. Add more detail, more of an explanation, and you might as well get more than a few supports There have been MANY ideas like the one example you are using, and they would make a good fit in Minecraft. The Mooshroom idea and island can be considered a "wacky" one, but it wasn't one that was insane or so, it was rather balanced, and rather original. Theres a section in Therasis' thread, about Minecraft originality. Originality is key in making suggestions sort of like these, especially mob suggestions.
In my experience, I have made 2 suggestions based on 2 new mobs. Both of them received a good number of supports with not even one "No-support" if I remember correctly. The ideas were carefully thought out, and it took me some patience to figure everything else out. Ask other people here who have made suggestions similar to mine. I don't think you should look at the side whether or not Mojang would add this or so. Because really, Mojang hardly visit this place, and even the top suggestions don't even get a glance. To me, theres more than just doing this for Mojang, theres the fun in it, and bringing people together and sharing your idea to see the result of.
Now don't get me wrong, there are some wacky ideas which would be completely ill suited to the game and shouldn't be supported. But isn't this forum too closed minded and aggressive towards new suggestions?
You only choose to think this section is closed-minded and aggressive. You'd be surprised what players are capable of coming up with. The inferior suggestions are a mere PORTION of suggestions that are possible, there are many other ideas you can do. Also, before Therasis states on with the kinds of suggestions, she stated that you are possible of making some these suggestions good (keyword: good & some). I have even made a Cape suggestion before, an idea that was generally hated and had a REALLY bad reputation. But with some careful thinking, the idea received positive reviews over a mere few negative ones.
As for aggressive, it's not necessarily aggresiveness. Critics that use the kind of language they express in suggestions that are 'bad', use it to get their word to the suggesters. We're not cold-hearted beings, we also help the users improve their suggestions if they are willing to comply (by comply, not rebel, act immature, or use the excuses above).
OP: *snip* BTW I heard Jeb mention something about giant mushrooms so don't hate on my suggestion too much.
yosh9048: Get a grip
OP: Er, ok, mods please lock this.
Heh, I'm done. You've established me as an enemy and used my messages clearly out of context. There's not much point in trying to argue points with you anymore. Anything I say to support or decline will be met with the same stoic denial. My only method of communication has been burned on your side and no discussion can occur anymore.
Aww, come on, I thought it was funny, Yoshi. And not in a being-nasty-and then trying to pretend I was being funny sort of way, I genuinely thought it was a good chuckle.
And Endergirl, I'd be interested to know more detail about why you believe Mooshroom biomes are balanced? I don't think they are too out of place in Minecraft since they do fit the whimsical feel of it, but Mooshrooms do seem a bit OP. I would not describe them as any less "wacky" than a red car emerging out of the ocean and shooting chickens at you that the OP gives as an example of a "wacky" suggestion, however they certainly do make a lot more sense within Minecraft's internal logical framework. Still I consider them the most questionable biome in Vanilla MC. Being introduced relatively early in the picture covers a lot of sins. They are more "out there" to me than even any biome in Biomes O Plenty. And a red car shooting chickens would make sense within the context of Angry Birds Go, so "wackiness" is context dependant. Not sure about Mel Gibson's voice though!
I still cannot see them have ever gotten any support on this forum though. It's easy to have claimed you would have supported in retrospect because they are popular now.
And Endergirl, I'd be interested to know more detail about why you believe Mooshroom biomes are balanced? I don't think they are too out of place in Minecraft since they do fit the whimsical feel of it, but Mooshrooms do seem a bit OP. I would not describe them as any less "wacky" than a red car emerging out of the ocean and shooting chickens at you that the OP gives as an example of a "wacky" suggestion, however they certainly do make a lot more sense within Minecraft's internal logical framework. Still I consider them the most questionable biome in Vanilla MC. Being introduced relatively early in the picture covers a lot of sins.
Mooshrooms are a bit weird to me, and I'd hover on the fence about them, but ultimately I think I'd have to support them. Being an island biome with entirely alien biology is appealing to me, and mushroom soup is so balanced in and of itself (being unstackable) that I don't think it'd matter if we had an infinite supply of it.
However, I do think that perhaps we need more biomes like mushroom biomes. That is, rare, strange and different, and not attached to anything else. I may have to just come up with something...
Yep, Mushroom stew being non stackable gives them some balance, at least nerfs it as a travelling food. Once you get a Mooshoom farm up and running at your base though - it does does almost seem like "cheating", since it's the only food source that needs zero resources to maintain - cow farming needs wheat, wheat needs bonemeal, potatoes need bonemeal and cooking, watermelons take time etc.
And oh, if I had my way the official game would look like Biomes O' Plenty on steroids. I have no idea why Mojang likes to keep the vanilla terrain generation so very, well, Vanilla. But then that's just my wish I don't have any argument as to why it would be a good thing.
Really? I was going for just aggressive. I've said this to many users now, I will never ever feel any sort of guilt over what I write in this guide. This forum gets beat to death with improperly done threads and absolutely stupid excuses. This guide is here to tell you what mistakes to not make, not to make you hold your hand and make you feel bubbly and warm inside.
Unless the guide refers to you by name, anyone who gets offended means the issue is on the reader's side. Not the writer's. Many people have found this guide hilarious and read it in full because of that. I promise if this guide was non-satirical and all "nice" it would be half as popular.
So no, some of that "crap" is not "unnecessary".
The Unofficial Suggestion Guide - Everything you need to know to not make goofy mistakes in a suggestion! Honestly though, you should really go there.
I think this is largely because we can't trust others here. One day you'll be giving someone the benefit of the doubt, then they prove that you made a mistake by doing something completely idiotic. We're all tired of how the average intelligence of users here are stunningly close to Tumblr, so we may seem aggressive towards not-so-good suggestions.
As for the point about mojang adding things that got shot down, imagine if someone said to add giant spiky puffer fish that shoot lasers out of their eyes. It sounds ridiculous, but Mojang minecraftified them to fit in the game, and most of us who would've been against the initial suggestion would find it a great concept.
We shoot down things because this forum isn't about the concept itself, but the execution. Mojang don't read the forums here, so this whole forum is technically just a discussion forum. The difference between this forum and other discussion forums is that you have to conclude the suggestions. You can't leave them half finished or depend on others to help out.
This section is unique in that we're not just sharing our thought, but explaining and showing our thought, allowing others to truly understand what we're thinking. A byproduct of this is that people who don't understand this comes in just to share their thoughts, or tell others what they want in the game.
When you're writing a note for an idea box, doing those things are okay, but since this is not an idea box, but a place to express your thoughts in detail. If a thread is just what the writer wants, it just doesn't provide anything as meaningful as a thread containing what we want. We are the people which these threads matter for, so we are the ones who react (sometimes harshly) to them.
In this case, it's not actually in Minecraft.
Just because nobody (including Nintendo) wants sports in a main Mario game, that doesn't mean we won't like a Mario game about sports. We don't want the sports in the platforming Mario games since it doesn't mesh well, but a spinoff sports game works well because it's a spinoff. It's the same for Minecraft, we didn't want a story mode in the actual game (and Mojang probably didn't want it either), but having a spinoff game contain a story works well as spinoffs can be completely ignored.
You don't lose out on any Minecraft gameplay, since the spinoff provides a different experience altogether. LoZ Skyward Sword was harshly received because it was an main LoZ game, and as such you would lose out on LoZ gameplay by not playing it because of the motion controls. Hyrule Warriors and Crossbow Training are completely avoidable since they're optional parts of the franchise, but since Skyward Sword wasn't optional (in the sense that by not playing it, you would effectively lose out on part of the main dish, rather than a side dish), it was a whole different case.
Basically: Spinoffs can get away with a lot more new things since players playing it for the gameplay will judge it by the gameplay, and players playing it for the setting while judge it by how well it's implemented. People who played Hyrule Warriors didn't judge it like it was a normal Zelda game, just like people don't judge Story Mode like it was part of Minecraft itself.
Added "Your post was rude so I skipped it!!" to the extended excuses section which I shoulda did a month ago. (Sorry McRiveter)
The Unofficial Suggestion Guide - Everything you need to know to not make goofy mistakes in a suggestion! Honestly though, you should really go there.
For the last time, I know StoryMode is not actually "in" Minecraft. It is not "official" ok? let's end that part of the debate. Why does nobody read? I admitted I might be incorrect about that a couple of times. My argument is really whether is was a "stupid idea" or not.
Also, if someone suggests an idea that well and truly wouldn't fit the spirit of minecraft/would not be a good business decision? Then why not simply not give it the attention the OP wants? No comments and a thread will very soon disappear. And since Mojang (most likely) will never read it, the worry that they will take it seriously and try to "Minecraftify" it isn't a very realistic one.
Why the need to be so aggressive? And yes, imo, you are often very aggressive here.
I get the idea you pride yourselves in being not warm and bubbly when someone makes a "dumb" suggestion, but you cannot hack somebody being "not warm and bubbly" towards the overall attitudes presented on this forum. We are all supposed to think it's so cool and un-pc how harsh you are towards "bad" suggestions. And no, this guideline does not have me nodding smugly in agreement like I get the impression it's supposed to make me feel. Instead it makes me think "whoa, these people are taking themselves a bit seriously considering Mojang will more than likely never read this. Chill out!"
I do not really see that, just people going on and on about a fine legal quibble. Why does nobody talk about my main point?
Well, you openly said this:
And as for the "stupid idea" thing. I think that one was also covered. I don't understand what we've missed about that. That argument went for like 2 pages.
If something needs to be said, I say it. I don't sugar coat it. I admit I do word things in a nasty way without realizing it when I'm actually replying in a neutral manner, but a good chunk of people put themselves in really dumb situations because they weren't thinking.
My goal here is not to make myself some sort of outspoken girl-fonzie. I don't care if you guys think me or this guide is 'cool' or not, all I care about is getting the point across, and if overexaggeration gets the point out better, I take that road. I don't need you to nod smugly, just as long as at the end of the day, you realize that suggesting Herobrine and "optional diamond dropping zombies" are stupid decisions.
The Unofficial Suggestion Guide - Everything you need to know to not make goofy mistakes in a suggestion! Honestly though, you should really go there.
Well, I'm not much of a warm and fuzzy sort of girl...I don't feel warm and fuzzy about the first post in this thread for example and I don't feel warm and fuzzy about how people diss so readily on ideas, and I don't feel warm and fuzzy about people going out of their way to be all tough and non warm and fuzzy and I'm not gonna sugar coat it...so we're cool then? lol
Oh, wait perhaps we are not.... for I would have thought Herobrine would have been ok so long as he was introduced as an easter egg back years ago... introducing him now would seem a bit corny though.
And I actually was wanting to start more of a debate about how good of a business decision Story Mode was (that's what I meant by was it a stupid idea like people on this forum said in 2012 or did it turn out to be a good one?), I really never thought this would turn into a big deal about whether it's an official story or not. People kind of just leapt on that one point. As a player all I knew was that unlike most fan fiction it had an "official tie" to the main game, nothing more. And I think that's all that registers to the average casual player.
Ok, so wrong terminology. OK. What is the correct wording then? I mean obviously there is a legal difference between MSM and say, a mod or fan fiction on a server?
Well... Technically, he was introduced as a fanmake creepypasta that mojang took a liking too. He wasn't actually added to Minecraft though, and has been systematically removed from every patch since his inception.
Herobrine is a great example of freak-out gameplay, but I think he should only exist where he spawned, as a fanmade entity :).
That would be an interesting discussion and one I'd be interested in entertaining; though I think you should create it as a new discussion in the discussion forum instead.
Happens to the best of us. Compulsory education in the US enforces 12 years of English with an additional 2-4 tacked on for secondary education and we still get it wrong. It's really hard to English.
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Not every "story mode" suggestion was bashed to the ground. Even way back in like 2011, some of them held up for a bit but all of them were unsuccessful one way or another.
The most common thing people mention is that it's best to just make up your own origins in the game, rather than having something definite that not everyone will like. A game where you reshape the entire world doesn't need any story to make it better. Some people suggested having a bit of lore to the game, which wouldn't be terrible, but again, it's still best for people to just make up their own thing.
A lot of the stories people suggest are very generic and... well, crap. It's almost like someone going "here's my fanfic of minecraftia!!!! please make it official and add it to vanilla!!!!" Those posters are not exactly professional writers, not that it would matter anyway. Some also think "all these other games have stories so minecraft needs one" which is a stupid, empty fallacy people lock into their minds.
Imagine if Garry's Mod had a story. Sure, you could have it, but it's utterly pointless and only a fraction of people would like or care about it.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
Zombies drop diamond tools as seen on the minecraft wiki even if its a rare chance,as seen mojang seems to know how to add things without breaking the game.
about the guide tough we are not sugar coating it,most people that read the guide here could confuse this and would start being rude at people,because they didnt like the suggestion.
i have seen people being rude at people that made a suggestion, that didnt deserve to be threated that way on some cases the suggestion was useful,funny and balanced.
That falls more on the critics, and not the people making the suggestion. If this guide somehow turns people mean, that's on the end of that person and not the guide. Or perhaps the person was already cruel to begin with.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
There's not really much reason in being rude. It's unfortunate that blind truth can be seen as rude; but sometimes thems the breaks. FTC does attempt to rear people away from toxic behavior. I can't speak to the level of success, but I would hope that it is seen as a basis of common sense and moreover; a plea for everyone to drop the toxicity and only look at a suggestion as empirically as possible. Expecting this from everyone is altruistic and impossible. Because of this, I give credence to take the 11 and turn it into a 3.
Don't be perfect, but make an attempt to approach it.
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I want to point out in the list of examples that in order to prevent links from breaking (some of them seem to use google redirects or something?), instead of having the entire link as the URL like this:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/77631-cubic-chunks-reduced-lag-infinite-height-and-more
You only need to include the set of numbers after "suggestions/". Using this:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/77631
should stop links from breaking. The forum is designed to automatically get rid of everything after that code and fill it with whatever the current title is, but the forum can screw it up sometimes. That thread ID should never change, at least in my experience.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
"I'm going to treat others as if they're rude to me so I can be a victim!"
I'm mentioning it because there is a huge difference between what the main games of franchises do, and what the spinoffs does. Just because something would be horrible in a main game doesn't mean that a spinoff can't be made with it.
Mojang literally do not check this forum, they have a reddit page for suggestions. The only point of making a thread here is to share ideas in a more "professional" way than making a "Should X be added to Minecraft?" thread on the general discussion section. And, spoiler alert, that's what most of us does, and treating this place like a suggestion box for Mojang usually ends in vague threads that don't have much discussion value (since the OP didn't consider whether their idea was actually good, only that they wanted it, so surely someone else would want it, right?)
I'm only as aggressive as I need to be to make my point. People here are more often than not so thick headed that they can't manage to use basic socializing abilities. The reason I'm aggressive to you is because you're clearly not in a state where speaking calmly would make much of a difference.
I don't pride myself in being "rude", it's simply a necessary evil to make sure the point is clear. You (referring to the imaginary creator of an imaginary thread, not you) made a horrible suggestion with no thought put into it, and you should do something to improve yourself.
You hardly replied to more than a few parts of my post, so stop being so hypocritical.
I've literally been doing this for ages, and people still haven't realized this is possible yet?
Now people will know, once and for all...
Also, even though the OP specifically says they will 'never redo the guide so it's "nicer to people"', that isn't the way the forums work. Reading through it I see a lot of things that are abrasive at best, and downright mean and rude at worst. The actual lessons it teaches are great, but the way things are said could be improved. I'm going to read through it a few times and talk it over with the other Minecraft Discussion staff to see if it needs to be revised, and then we can go from there, working with Theriasis and the other major contributors to this thread. It might not even need to be changed at all, jefe has the final say on that.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
I think that since there is a guideline for posting suggestions, we should also have a guideline for posting replies to suggestions. If we agree that people can use sayings like "Well Minecraft has wack stuff in it already" and "oh, I'm new here" to defend their poorly thought out ideas, we also have to agree that people can say stuff like "sometimes being abrasive is a necessary evil" or "I don't sugar coat" or "I tell it as I see it" to defend narrow mindedness, irrational dislike or sometimes just downright uncalled for rudeness.
And also since people got the wrong end of the stick over my MSM example, how about another (this time hypothetical) example. Can you imagine if the idea of Mooshroom Islands had been a suggestion on this forum? The idea sounds extremely awkward when you try to describe it in writing, yet it's something that exists in the main game, not as a spin off, and Mooshroom Biomes are generally a well loved well accepted part of minecraft. Yet I think the nether would freeze over before it got one bit of support here, had it been merely a suggestion. The idea breaks almost every single one of the guidelines in this thread I'd imagine it would have gone down something like this:
OP: "Hi, I'm new and I have an idea for you. I have a new biome in mind. This would be as island biome out in deep ocean that would be covered in giant red and brown mushrooms. They would look like the mushrooms we already have except 5 blocks high. The entire surface of the island would be covered in a new block we would call Mycelium, which in real life is the branching root part of a fungus, and it would connect up the mushrooms so the whole island would be like one giant fungal organism! In real life it's white but I think it should be purple because that goes well with red. Anyhow the biome would also be home to cows that would be textured to resemble a mushroom and also have small mushrooms growing off them. They would be called Mooshrooms (see what I did there!). They would give infinite mushroom stew when milked. This sounds OP, but really it's not, because the biome would be very rare and you might have to travel 20000 blocks to see it. BTW I heard Jeb mention something about giant mushrooms so don't hate on my suggestion too much.
yosh9048: Get a grip
OP: Er, ok, mods please lock this.
Now don't get me wrong, there are some wacky ideas which would be completely ill suited to the game and shouldn't be supported. But isn't this forum too closed minded and aggressive towards new suggestions?
There is a guideline dedicated to "replying to suggestions", more appropriately named as "For The Critics". And excuses like that are technically already covered in the guideline. If not, then suggest it, the OP may decide on adding it or not depending on if it's necessary.
Honestly, a critic with common sense and a thirst for hearing other ideas and trying to help people on them, while also balancing on saying what's wrong, I would indeed support something like this. Add more detail, more of an explanation, and you might as well get more than a few supports There have been MANY ideas like the one example you are using, and they would make a good fit in Minecraft. The Mooshroom idea and island can be considered a "wacky" one, but it wasn't one that was insane or so, it was rather balanced, and rather original. Theres a section in Therasis' thread, about Minecraft originality. Originality is key in making suggestions sort of like these, especially mob suggestions.
In my experience, I have made 2 suggestions based on 2 new mobs. Both of them received a good number of supports with not even one "No-support" if I remember correctly. The ideas were carefully thought out, and it took me some patience to figure everything else out. Ask other people here who have made suggestions similar to mine. I don't think you should look at the side whether or not Mojang would add this or so. Because really, Mojang hardly visit this place, and even the top suggestions don't even get a glance. To me, theres more than just doing this for Mojang, theres the fun in it, and bringing people together and sharing your idea to see the result of.
You only choose to think this section is closed-minded and aggressive. You'd be surprised what players are capable of coming up with. The inferior suggestions are a mere PORTION of suggestions that are possible, there are many other ideas you can do. Also, before Therasis states on with the kinds of suggestions, she stated that you are possible of making some these suggestions good (keyword: good & some). I have even made a Cape suggestion before, an idea that was generally hated and had a REALLY bad reputation. But with some careful thinking, the idea received positive reviews over a mere few negative ones.
As for aggressive, it's not necessarily aggresiveness. Critics that use the kind of language they express in suggestions that are 'bad', use it to get their word to the suggesters. We're not cold-hearted beings, we also help the users improve their suggestions if they are willing to comply (by comply, not rebel, act immature, or use the excuses above).
Heh, I'm done. You've established me as an enemy and used my messages clearly out of context. There's not much point in trying to argue points with you anymore. Anything I say to support or decline will be met with the same stoic denial. My only method of communication has been burned on your side and no discussion can occur anymore.
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Aww, come on, I thought it was funny, Yoshi. And not in a being-nasty-and then trying to pretend I was being funny sort of way, I genuinely thought it was a good chuckle.
And Endergirl, I'd be interested to know more detail about why you believe Mooshroom biomes are balanced? I don't think they are too out of place in Minecraft since they do fit the whimsical feel of it, but Mooshrooms do seem a bit OP. I would not describe them as any less "wacky" than a red car emerging out of the ocean and shooting chickens at you that the OP gives as an example of a "wacky" suggestion, however they certainly do make a lot more sense within Minecraft's internal logical framework. Still I consider them the most questionable biome in Vanilla MC. Being introduced relatively early in the picture covers a lot of sins. They are more "out there" to me than even any biome in Biomes O Plenty. And a red car shooting chickens would make sense within the context of Angry Birds Go, so "wackiness" is context dependant. Not sure about Mel Gibson's voice though!
I still cannot see them have ever gotten any support on this forum though. It's easy to have claimed you would have supported in retrospect because they are popular now.
Mooshrooms are a bit weird to me, and I'd hover on the fence about them, but ultimately I think I'd have to support them. Being an island biome with entirely alien biology is appealing to me, and mushroom soup is so balanced in and of itself (being unstackable) that I don't think it'd matter if we had an infinite supply of it.
However, I do think that perhaps we need more biomes like mushroom biomes. That is, rare, strange and different, and not attached to anything else. I may have to just come up with something...
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
Yep, Mushroom stew being non stackable gives them some balance, at least nerfs it as a travelling food. Once you get a Mooshoom farm up and running at your base though - it does does almost seem like "cheating", since it's the only food source that needs zero resources to maintain - cow farming needs wheat, wheat needs bonemeal, potatoes need bonemeal and cooking, watermelons take time etc.
And oh, if I had my way the official game would look like Biomes O' Plenty on steroids. I have no idea why Mojang likes to keep the vanilla terrain generation so very, well, Vanilla. But then that's just my wish I don't have any argument as to why it would be a good thing.