While crafting appears to be on the distant horizon, atleast until after Notch's well deserved vacation, there should still be considered a self sustained environment and economic recycling. What that effectively means is that if I play survival mode long enough, no material should become increasingly deminished to the point of depletion.
I argue this point for two reasons: First, survival mode should be ongoing over a series of logins and cycles as long as the player has not died because of their own mistakes. Second because if I have invested enough interest in a particular map, enough to make sure my efforts are continiously rewarded by various benefits (safe home, better weaponry (not in the first test of course) secure food source, secure wood source, animal breeding/corraling) I would be pretty upset if my efforts came to naught because of an uncontrollable lack.
Let's track what becomes resources:
The Resources!
The various blocks (or so is imagined) are...
Stone
Planks
Wood Log
Dirt
Gravel
Sand
Gold Stone
Coal Stone
Iron Stone
The liquids...
Lava
Water
The objects...
Bow
Rose
Flower
Shrub
Mushroom
Red Mushroom
The Ever Lasting Loops!
Of all these objects, there appear to be self sustaining loops which allows for a seemingly endless supply of certain materials.
Shrub -> Tree -> Leaves -> Shrub
This is the only one demonstrated so far... others might include:
Rose -> Seed (Red Dot) & Health -> Rose
Mushroom -> Health & Spores (Tan Dots) -> Mushroom
Yellow Flower -> Food & Kernals (Yellow Dot) -> Yellow Flower
Tree -> Wood -> Planks -> Arrows -> Shrub (From former leaves) -> Tree
Naturally some resources would prove to be limited by the fundamentals of the game. There would be and shouldn't be a way to grow or produce stone, dirt or sand except by appropriate intervals of time or random events that might trigger it: Volcanic eruption (Stone), tidal wave (Sand), torrential rain (dirt).
However, of the essentials to let a game last seemingly forever, the essentials would need to be there: Health, building material, combat material, and enemies. If any of these ran out, the map would essentially die with the resource.
The Enemy at the Gates
While I am unsure what you've done to produce the mobs populating the ingame environment, I can see two possible paths you've taken, depending on the methodology you take toward gaming.
Either you've established an invisible block type (for flexibility) which counts as a spawn marker in a given area. Different markers make for different spawns. This adds the essential benefit of making spawn everlasting: No complete pig kill as long as the block remains uninterrupted. Likewise, if certain commands were added in for admins, spawn could be come a controllable feature for player as well as the game engine.
Lets say you made a stationary "mother pig" block that acted as the spawn point for pigs, and the player managed to "tame" it (i.e. collect it as you've currently established) and then replace it in a specified pen, you've effectively made herding possible. In addition, a vast variety of objects could be made that act as "bases" and triggers for mobs.
Shrine -> Fanatics
Tombstone -> Skeleton
Weird Monolith -> Zombie
Decaying Tree -> Wood Dryads
Black Stone -> Gargoyles
The other option is that spawn remains on the same level as blocks, a select number, bound together by a herd AI written into their basic nature, limiting the number of mobs on creation of the level. This makes the environment essential conquerable, but also limits the duration of the game.
More on Mobs!
So far I've seen two basic mob types:
Bipedal (two legs)
Quadrupedal (four legs)
Both limb structures can afford to support a variety of content adding feature without essentially anymore work other then skin making and behavior coding.
In the crafting process, there are two things to consider, roughly equivalent to a chemical formula. Reagents and the catalysts.
For example:
Iron Stone -> Iron Ingot -> Sword
Forge Anvil
Sand -> Glass
Forge
Plank & Feathers -> Arrows
Fletching Station
Plank & Iron Ingot -> Fletching Station
Anvil
Plank & Coal Stone -> Forge
3 Iron Ingot -> Anvil
Forge
Using a crafting station as a catalyst could be easy as trying to "place" the materials on top of the given station which would then sink into it much like sand does now. One everything is in place, the resultant objects would pop out as if the station were destroyed, thus being gatherable.
There is only one problem with this, any item crafting will reduce the number of blocks. The only unlimited resources are those made with trees. Otherwise everything else will (very slowly) run out.
I guess one possible way around this would be to add some sort of trader which would let you trade crafted items or other renewable materials for nonrenewable materials (or anything). The trading rates would have to be set appropriately so that people are still encouraged to actually get resources locally, but allowing you to trade for resources would alleviate the problem of running out.
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Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Actually, the whole random event idea sounds good. Allows sand to be replenished, dirt, and ore/stone. It would also mean you had to think about the way in which you built your home, your hunting areas and so forth in such a way that you wouldn't get flooded, or volcanised.
Another realy important thing is to not have to use sand to make glass. Sand is far too rare, perhaps only 6000 blocks on a 256X256 map if your lucky. So either sand will run out or glass will
On a side note, sand would make the best currency in game
If gold were a little rarer, gold would make more sense as a currency. Sand is actually REALLY common and so easy to collect. Gold is harder to collect, you have to spend time digging through stone and then the gold blocks. There is a possibility of you falling down a chasm, getting flooded with lava or water. More danger and rarer mean it's a good currency.
There are probably better solutions like trading off food etc. But I'm too tired to go in depth with that.
Don't get ahead of yourselves here. The idea of currency only exists in a system by which multiple vendors/merchants can not handle the appropriate exchanges by barter. As of yet we still only have a single player version where only one player will have access to the appropriate materials to build what he/she needs/wants. No multiple players = no need to consider currency at this stage of the development.
As for the issues concern limitations of blocks and sand. Please consider that the rest of my suggestion addresses these issues. Ultimately any game world should have within it the framework to allow a presistent player to develop anything he/she wants, much in the framework of Dwarf Fortress. In essense what Notch has created is a game by which the utility can far surpass a basic set of dictates.
Consider this:
For ever piece of content Notch adds to the game, it interacts with every other form of content added. This creates exponential growth in what can be done with the game with each additional feature, even if the feature itself does not provide for much in and of itself.
If you only add pigs as a domestic/huntable animal, you've created a single feature for all the basic ground work. However, if you use the same groundwork to add cows, horses, dogs, cats, and sheep, you've created six features based on the ground work of just one original feature. The same goes for blocks and liquids.
Also on the topic of liquids:
Liquids have a HUGE potential as far as gameplay elements on the like. While limited liquid levels are -extremely- difficult to develop on a block by block bases, there are some ways around it. Pools of liquids can have "Stretch" values by which a 2X2X2 pond can contain eight units of water, and when only seven are present the program allows for the creation of additional block to avoid "Shifting" water blocks over a surface.
Another consideration is that while the original lava and water values have basic framework in place, additional elements can also be created...
Oil
Alcohol
Juices
Blood
Green Ooz (Swamp water?)
The interactions between each would be where the fun could -really- start to come in.
Oil & Lava -> Explosion
Juices & Swimming -> Health (As the juice is used up)
Blood & Green Ooz -> Mobs (Swamp Things?)
Alcohol & Swimming -> Drunk movement
Alcohol & Oil -> Glycerine or solid state explosive for combat?
As far as the limitation of resources goes
Certain materials on a map would -have- to be rationable on the short term. Consider that a player carrying 10 gold bars can create a decent statue for a home, but if gold is unlimited the statue becomes meaningless, as the whole house can be produced out of gold. Glass likewise.
However! If so desired there are ways to consider the reproduction of certain materials. Stone can be produced from an inexhaustable lava source and water. Stone -could- be ground up to produce sand, thus allowing for inexhaustable sand.
What -shouldn't- happen though is running out of health reviving items or arrows so that you can not longer engage with the larger aspects of the game, thus putting an effective limit on the content.
Scuba and lava dive suit's could have limits on them, an air limit on the scuba suit like say 3 minutes underwater and, 10 minutes to "recharge" the suit. lava suit could be like a heat limit you can only go in for up to a minute or something like that (maybe less, it is lava we're talking about).
about the health items, i think anything "living' as in mushrooms, trees, etc. should always replenish themselves, maybe trees you'd have to plant whereas mushrooms can do it naturally (without any interaction from the player).
I'm not really for the lava dive suit, but the scuba suit is a go for me. everything else is pretty good as well :tongue.gif:
Scuba and lava dive suit's could have limits on them, an air limit on the scuba suit like say 3 minutes underwater and, 10 minutes to "recharge" the suit. lava suit could be like a heat limit you can only go in for up to a minute or something like that (maybe less, it is lava we're talking about).
about the health items, i think anything "living' as in mushrooms, trees, etc. should always replenish themselves, maybe trees you'd have to plant whereas mushrooms can do it naturally (without any interaction from the player).
I'm not really for the lava dive suit, but the scuba suit is a go for me. everything else is pretty good as well :tongue.gif:
We should just have the ability to make your swim time longer, but heres a tip. When you have around 3 bubbles left and your in a cave, go to the roof of it and dig a hole. The hole will be filled with air and you can continue to swim.
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Creepa stole ma bike. [SSSS]
Sooo... when's the next seecret Friday update topic going up? =[
I argue this point for two reasons: First, survival mode should be ongoing over a series of logins and cycles as long as the player has not died because of their own mistakes. Second because if I have invested enough interest in a particular map, enough to make sure my efforts are continiously rewarded by various benefits (safe home, better weaponry (not in the first test of course) secure food source, secure wood source, animal breeding/corraling) I would be pretty upset if my efforts came to naught because of an uncontrollable lack.
Let's track what becomes resources:
The Resources!
The various blocks (or so is imagined) are...
Stone
Planks
Wood Log
Dirt
Gravel
Sand
Gold Stone
Coal Stone
Iron Stone
The liquids...
Lava
Water
The objects...
Bow
Rose
Flower
Shrub
Mushroom
Red Mushroom
The Ever Lasting Loops!
Of all these objects, there appear to be self sustaining loops which allows for a seemingly endless supply of certain materials.
Shrub -> Tree -> Leaves -> Shrub
This is the only one demonstrated so far... others might include:
Rose -> Seed (Red Dot) & Health -> Rose
Mushroom -> Health & Spores (Tan Dots) -> Mushroom
Yellow Flower -> Food & Kernals (Yellow Dot) -> Yellow Flower
Tree -> Wood -> Planks -> Arrows -> Shrub (From former leaves) -> Tree
Naturally some resources would prove to be limited by the fundamentals of the game. There would be and shouldn't be a way to grow or produce stone, dirt or sand except by appropriate intervals of time or random events that might trigger it: Volcanic eruption (Stone), tidal wave (Sand), torrential rain (dirt).
However, of the essentials to let a game last seemingly forever, the essentials would need to be there: Health, building material, combat material, and enemies. If any of these ran out, the map would essentially die with the resource.
The Enemy at the Gates
While I am unsure what you've done to produce the mobs populating the ingame environment, I can see two possible paths you've taken, depending on the methodology you take toward gaming.
Either you've established an invisible block type (for flexibility) which counts as a spawn marker in a given area. Different markers make for different spawns. This adds the essential benefit of making spawn everlasting: No complete pig kill as long as the block remains uninterrupted. Likewise, if certain commands were added in for admins, spawn could be come a controllable feature for player as well as the game engine.
Lets say you made a stationary "mother pig" block that acted as the spawn point for pigs, and the player managed to "tame" it (i.e. collect it as you've currently established) and then replace it in a specified pen, you've effectively made herding possible. In addition, a vast variety of objects could be made that act as "bases" and triggers for mobs.
Shrine -> Fanatics
Tombstone -> Skeleton
Weird Monolith -> Zombie
Decaying Tree -> Wood Dryads
Black Stone -> Gargoyles
The other option is that spawn remains on the same level as blocks, a select number, bound together by a herd AI written into their basic nature, limiting the number of mobs on creation of the level. This makes the environment essential conquerable, but also limits the duration of the game.
More on Mobs!
So far I've seen two basic mob types:
Bipedal (two legs)
Quadrupedal (four legs)
Both limb structures can afford to support a variety of content adding feature without essentially anymore work other then skin making and behavior coding.
Bipedal: Skeleton
Zombie
Golem
Elementals
Fanatics (black robed mobs)
Goblins
Trolls
Quadrupedal: Pigs
Sheep
Cows
Goats
Horses (Mounts?)
Dogs
Cats
Donkeys
Potential Crafting System
Sense basically I'm just listing content at this point which can be added with the present framework, consider the following.
Eventually items should be wielded and worn. These objects should/could include:
Sword
Shield
Scuba Suit
Volcano Dive Suit
Crossbow
Bolts
Glass
Arrows
Medicine
Armor Types
In the crafting process, there are two things to consider, roughly equivalent to a chemical formula. Reagents and the catalysts.
For example:
Iron Stone -> Iron Ingot -> Sword
Forge Anvil
Sand -> Glass
Forge
Plank & Feathers -> Arrows
Fletching Station
Plank & Iron Ingot -> Fletching Station
Anvil
Plank & Coal Stone -> Forge
3 Iron Ingot -> Anvil
Forge
Using a crafting station as a catalyst could be easy as trying to "place" the materials on top of the given station which would then sink into it much like sand does now. One everything is in place, the resultant objects would pop out as if the station were destroyed, thus being gatherable.
I guess one possible way around this would be to add some sort of trader which would let you trade crafted items or other renewable materials for nonrenewable materials (or anything). The trading rates would have to be set appropriately so that people are still encouraged to actually get resources locally, but allowing you to trade for resources would alleviate the problem of running out.
If gold were a little rarer, gold would make more sense as a currency. Sand is actually REALLY common and so easy to collect. Gold is harder to collect, you have to spend time digging through stone and then the gold blocks. There is a possibility of you falling down a chasm, getting flooded with lava or water. More danger and rarer mean it's a good currency.
There are probably better solutions like trading off food etc. But I'm too tired to go in depth with that.
As for the issues concern limitations of blocks and sand. Please consider that the rest of my suggestion addresses these issues. Ultimately any game world should have within it the framework to allow a presistent player to develop anything he/she wants, much in the framework of Dwarf Fortress. In essense what Notch has created is a game by which the utility can far surpass a basic set of dictates.
Consider this:
For ever piece of content Notch adds to the game, it interacts with every other form of content added. This creates exponential growth in what can be done with the game with each additional feature, even if the feature itself does not provide for much in and of itself.
If you only add pigs as a domestic/huntable animal, you've created a single feature for all the basic ground work. However, if you use the same groundwork to add cows, horses, dogs, cats, and sheep, you've created six features based on the ground work of just one original feature. The same goes for blocks and liquids.
Also on the topic of liquids:
Liquids have a HUGE potential as far as gameplay elements on the like. While limited liquid levels are -extremely- difficult to develop on a block by block bases, there are some ways around it. Pools of liquids can have "Stretch" values by which a 2X2X2 pond can contain eight units of water, and when only seven are present the program allows for the creation of additional block to avoid "Shifting" water blocks over a surface.
Another consideration is that while the original lava and water values have basic framework in place, additional elements can also be created...
Oil
Alcohol
Juices
Blood
Green Ooz (Swamp water?)
The interactions between each would be where the fun could -really- start to come in.
Oil & Lava -> Explosion
Juices & Swimming -> Health (As the juice is used up)
Blood & Green Ooz -> Mobs (Swamp Things?)
Alcohol & Swimming -> Drunk movement
Alcohol & Oil -> Glycerine or solid state explosive for combat?
As far as the limitation of resources goes
Certain materials on a map would -have- to be rationable on the short term. Consider that a player carrying 10 gold bars can create a decent statue for a home, but if gold is unlimited the statue becomes meaningless, as the whole house can be produced out of gold. Glass likewise.
However! If so desired there are ways to consider the reproduction of certain materials. Stone can be produced from an inexhaustable lava source and water. Stone -could- be ground up to produce sand, thus allowing for inexhaustable sand.
What -shouldn't- happen though is running out of health reviving items or arrows so that you can not longer engage with the larger aspects of the game, thus putting an effective limit on the content.
Same with scuba suit.
about the health items, i think anything "living' as in mushrooms, trees, etc. should always replenish themselves, maybe trees you'd have to plant whereas mushrooms can do it naturally (without any interaction from the player).
I'm not really for the lava dive suit, but the scuba suit is a go for me. everything else is pretty good as well :tongue.gif:
We should just have the ability to make your swim time longer, but heres a tip. When you have around 3 bubbles left and your in a cave, go to the roof of it and dig a hole. The hole will be filled with air and you can continue to swim.