I think a better idea than having points to put into skills would be upgrading the skills by actually doing them. For example, you gain swim speed by swimming, lung capacity by staying underwater, stamina by moving around for extended periods of time, etc. -- this means that there is an overall sense of progress. This would work better with persistent stats on servers (so you can leave, come back, and be the same rugged adventurer with all your handsome battle-wounds). It'd also work well on Single Player, as it would give the player things to aim for. In Multiplayer there would be an imbalance between players which would be something of a hassle if this game turns out to have a PvP-type hostility between players about it.
But then there'd be botting. Divebots and swimbots and jogbots.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from wreck »
Variety is the spice of life, especially when it applies to death.
Quote from "MrHedge64" »
A good raider uses diamond tools. A good thief uses none at all.
It depends on how Multiplayer works, to be honest.
MrHedge64 makes a very good point. Bots are pretty much unavoidable.
My system is what I believe to be the ideal to match up with a system that works in terms of short (not really short, something under 2 hours) chunks of playtime that ends upon death, or a goal being reached.
In this way you decide upon an interesting combination of skills right from the start, and what you 'aim for' is to play the game for the sake of enjoying it instead of boosting your stats so that you are better than someone else.
Also, read that quote from Notch! Obviously he can change his mind, but he said there would be no real persistent character.
edit --> There damn well better be player-player hostility :wink.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to see forum posts saying "how do i kill dragon" with replies reading "lol"."
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
1. The idea of that is rather limiting. You're allowing for less creativity, less specialization.
2. Levels, especially the first (difference between L1 and L2) is huge. This system is supposed to keep you on a level playing field, and would do that through very minimal leveling up points. Maybe you unlock some abilities that can't be picked at level 1, though. Hmm.
Organization of these things into categories would certainly be good, even if just to make the menu a bit more organized. Thanks for your ideas, though :3
---> I think I'd rather not go in this direction (forced generalization) or the direction Diablo II took with synergies (if you don't specialize, you are at a disadvantage almost always). Freedom is key here!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to see forum posts saying "how do i kill dragon" with replies reading "lol"."
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
1. The idea of that is rather limiting. You're allowing for less creativity, less specialization.
2. Levels, especially the first (difference between L1 and L2) is huge. This system is supposed to keep you on a level playing field, and would do that through very minimal leveling up points. Maybe you unlock some abilities that can't be picked at level 1, though. Hmm.
Organization of these things into categories would certainly be good, even if just to make the menu a bit more organized. Thanks for your ideas, though :3
---> I think I'd rather not go in this direction (forced generalization) or the direction Diablo II took with synergies (if you don't specialize, you are at a disadvantage almost always). Freedom is key here!
Yeah, in DF you don't level up for making a good fort, only your creations level up.
The reason I am using Df as an example is because, this game is like playing as that dwarf entity.
Don't give me the 'they level up, so should we' , they level up or rather become more intelligent in their craft like we do, but the playing field is still level, they can still **** up like the new guy, and so can we.
Here is a statement, that should be used for all games.
Strong people are not better than weak people, the field is always level. ( Though you are good you can still lose like a noob ) If a force unbalances the field, the fight is now meaningless. ( If you level up, the game is pointlessly easy )
I honestly think the best system would be a combination of the first post (Major Skills, if you will) as well as an actual training based natural stat system (i.e. the more time you spend swimming, the more your endurance, breath, etc. increase).
Having just the Major Skills system would be difficult because if you wanted to be strong you'd be crippled with the games natural slowness for a very long time. Likewise, just the natural stat system would be boring because we'd have to spend our time training in everything.
I believe a combination of the two would handle that nicely.
IMHO, the idea of having a stat system is sorta dumb. Too much like WoW, it forces people into the leveling up mentality. "OMFG I can own you and steal your house cause I have +50% melee damage!".
Rather, I think that allowing people to gain experience by doing what they do most, the experience lets them get faster at doing it (Faster dig if you dig a lot, faster smelting if you smelt a lot, etc.) this is the "natural stat system"
however, if you set the default level to a reasonable/fairly high amount, and let the increase be very slow, people would just act normally and not spend all their time diving and tunneling.
Double Post.
Look at the end of the first post to see what's up.
Added some more examples that could be applied directly to the current Survival Test Build (although some balancing would obviously be best).
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
Creativity ftw!
But then there'd be botting. Divebots and swimbots and jogbots.
MrHedge64 makes a very good point. Bots are pretty much unavoidable.
My system is what I believe to be the ideal to match up with a system that works in terms of short (not really short, something under 2 hours) chunks of playtime that ends upon death, or a goal being reached.
In this way you decide upon an interesting combination of skills right from the start, and what you 'aim for' is to play the game for the sake of enjoying it instead of boosting your stats so that you are better than someone else.
Also, read that quote from Notch! Obviously he can change his mind, but he said there would be no real persistent character.
edit --> There damn well better be player-player hostility :wink.gif:
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
Abilities:
[swimmer]
[runner]
[etc.]
Fighting
[Bow skills]
[unarmed skills]
and of course a section that contains farming, smith, and miner.
you would get 1-2 points per category to start and 1 every level, per category.
1. The idea of that is rather limiting. You're allowing for less creativity, less specialization.
2. Levels, especially the first (difference between L1 and L2) is huge. This system is supposed to keep you on a level playing field, and would do that through very minimal leveling up points. Maybe you unlock some abilities that can't be picked at level 1, though. Hmm.
Organization of these things into categories would certainly be good, even if just to make the menu a bit more organized. Thanks for your ideas, though :3
---> I think I'd rather not go in this direction (forced generalization) or the direction Diablo II took with synergies (if you don't specialize, you are at a disadvantage almost always). Freedom is key here!
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
Yeah, in DF you don't level up for making a good fort, only your creations level up.
The reason I am using Df as an example is because, this game is like playing as that dwarf entity.
Don't give me the 'they level up, so should we' , they level up or rather become more intelligent in their craft like we do, but the playing field is still level, they can still **** up like the new guy, and so can we.
Here is a statement, that should be used for all games.
Strong people are not better than weak people, the field is always level. ( Though you are good you can still lose like a noob ) If a force unbalances the field, the fight is now meaningless. ( If you level up, the game is pointlessly easy )
Having just the Major Skills system would be difficult because if you wanted to be strong you'd be crippled with the games natural slowness for a very long time. Likewise, just the natural stat system would be boring because we'd have to spend our time training in everything.
I believe a combination of the two would handle that nicely.
You would start with everything already picked (with possibly some small notion of growth, but that should probably all be left to equipment).
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
Rather, I think that allowing people to gain experience by doing what they do most, the experience lets them get faster at doing it (Faster dig if you dig a lot, faster smelting if you smelt a lot, etc.) this is the "natural stat system"
however, if you set the default level to a reasonable/fairly high amount, and let the increase be very slow, people would just act normally and not spend all their time diving and tunneling.