I love Minecraft. It's an excellent game, right now, even in alpha. I can spend hours building elaborate structures and waterways, paths and gardens. But it does need more. The suggestions that follow are just my ideas, i'm sure you have a lot of things already planned out in your head, just please take a few mins to read this and consider.
Environmental interaction:
There are a few things you can do to interact with the environment in Minecraft: you can dig ditches and flood them with water or magma. You can drop sand onto things. You can provide paths for grass to grow even too deep underground caverns. All of these things are fun and you can spend hours figuring out the nuances in how to control these things, but that's about it. There needs to be dozens more interactions possible, and as more interactions come up more and more things can be done that no one even considered.
Water:
Well, first, limited water. Waterfalls. Pumps! Waterwheels. Floodgates. Contamination. Evaporation. Water that dissapates into the dirt if not connected to a source. Irrigation.
Dirt:
More plants. Irrigation. Fertile dirt, normal dirt, dry dirt, mud. Hardened dirt. Earthen fortifications. Farming.
Lava:
Death. Otherwise, lava works quite well. I would say keep infinite lava. I love the fact that you can't see into lava.
Stone:
More types of refined stone. Natural stone looks a little too even, maybe make slightly different types that look a bit different in the ground? More types of Ore? More Ore per map?
Plants:
Food production, obviously. Requires irrigation for larger scale. Artificial Light Sources. Mushrooms that can grow underground.
Wood:
More types of wood. Fire. Wood + lava = death for wood. More forests in survival mode.
Grass:
Grass seed. That is all.
Okay, and now to shake things up a little.
Multi-block prefab objects! bear with me a little.
If you are going to build, say, a mine in survival mode, a la Dwarf Fortress, you need a place to store things, to sleep, to build things, ect. Building these areas with blocks and then designating them is a little crude and complicated. Infiniminer did some basic resourcing with safe blocks.
So let's say you are building a mine and you come across some good Iron Ore. Excellent! Now I want to store this ore. So I pop open my handy build menu, and select "Ore storage- 5x5x3" Looks good. Now I see, instead of a single ghost construction block, a 5x5x3 ghost of this storage area. On a click, I get (minus the resources you need to build it, which are few enough to keep in a personal inventory) a large crate type box, that is solid, and has a counter on the outside. Mined Iron could be deposited into said box by hand or some sort of resource transit device, directly from the mine.
Furthermore, this Iron Ore Storage could be connected to a Workshop, a place, that when also connected to a Wood storage area, is able to produce items, say, arrows. A workshop could be solid, or enterable (with infinitely thin walls) but is built in the same was a Storage bin is built: a menu.
More buildings could be introduced: A mill, a slio, a barn, metalworking workshops, carpenters workshops, ect. Workshops could either be connected directly to a large resource cache or take directly from a players inventory. Some workshops would need to be connected to water, or lava, or need sunlight to function.
Building on this, building built out of wood or stone could work less efficiently than the same shops built out of Iron or Steel. This way, upon entering a mine complex, one could examine the buildings to judge a mine's level. "Hey! look! I have my Steel Forge hooked up to lava, Iron Ore, Water, and my Swordsmith! Now I can build Steel Swords!"
All in all, I'm suggesting a experience similar to a cross between what you have currently, Dwarf fortress (witch is WAAAY too complicated to be fun) and Infiniminer.
Just remember this: Keep it accessible to first time players, but give more dedicated players something they can get deep into.
I have no idea if you will even consider any of these suggestions, I don't even know if all of them are possible. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I do know that whatever the direction you take minecraft, It will be an excellent game.
What'd be really cool is having stuff either build when you stand near it (in it?), or build like engi buildings from TF2. So you have like a wrench, and if you hit it with the wrench it builds faster (or at all). Having like workshops to build stuff would be really cool.
Some of these ideas have already been tossed around, but I have to hand it to you for being very descriptive and specific. People in the Suggestions forum should learn from this example.
Anyway, can't say I really disagree with any of it even though I'm on the fence about your elaborate resource storage idea.
Biggest kudos to your appraisal of lava; lava SHOULD be infinite (it melts down the things it touches rather than being absorbed), even though that may put a damper on volcanoes.
@OP: Ah, didn't read your whole post the first time. Just finished it now.
Ok, I'm not sure about storage buildings. If we do have them, they should probably be small (e.g. 2x2x2) and not hold that much. I'd expect a 3x3x3 to hold around 500 resources, depending on the type. They'd also be generic storage - all the same, only differing in what and how much they can hold - to keep things simple.
Notch has already said we'll be able to hold stacks of resources in a single inventory slot. I'd expect maybe 30-50 for wood, maybe 15-25 for stone. 50 wood isn't really much. It'll only get a walled in 5x5 staircase 4 stories high (13 blocks per level), or a walled in 4x4 staircase 5 stories high (9 blocks per level). Although, I do guess that's quite high for survival.
Anyway, can't say I really disagree with any of it even though I'm on the fence about your elaborate resource storage idea.
The point of an elaborate resource storage system is...well....not to be too elaborate. DF has an extremely in-depth storage system with all sorts of different resources and systems that I haven't even gotten my head around.
However, it's also a lot of fun.
So here we have to trade off between DF style and say, Infiniminer style. Keep it accessible, but keep it possible to build huge industrial facilities for the pros.
Quote from liq3 »
Ok, I'm not sure about storage buildings. If we do have them, they should probably be small (e.g. 2x2x2) and not hold that much. I'd expect a 3x3x3 to hold around 500 resources, depending on the type. They'd also be generic storage - all the same, only differing in what and how much they can hold - to keep things simple.
Different sized buildings are a must, but this can be quite simple. Early in the game, you won't need more than 200-300 wood at at time, so having a huge storage facility would be pointless, expensive, and a waste of space. A storage building selection screen could have a list, with increasingly large storage units with an increasingly large cost to go with them.
Later mines, however, might be producing hundreds of units of resources a second, though either co-op mining or automation. In my opinion, these mines should not have to build hundreds of tiny interconnected storage units. A few larger ones would work fine and be impressive to any visitors.
Just one more thing: There needs to be some items that can only be produced with massive amounts of resources. Prestige items. High-level workshops. Super Weapons. Things like that, goals for advanced players, things that are actually very difficult to obtain.
I think your suggestions make the game a bit too complex, and far too automatic.
I like the idea of the player having to make personal designations for their structures, instead of being able to make what the game calls a storage area or something. It's simpler, and grants more control to the player regarding how to run their whatever-they're-making.
Somethings are needed, like light sources, fire, and some nice little features like pumps and Windmills, along with Grass Seed and Mushrooms growing underground.
I like those
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Creepa stole ma bike. [SSSS]
Sooo... when's the next seecret Friday update topic going up? =[
I think your suggestions make the game a bit too complex, and far too automatic.
I like the idea of the player having to make personal designations for their structures, instead of being able to make what the game calls a storage area or something. It's simpler, and grants more control to the player regarding how to run their whatever-they're-making.
I know exactly what you mean.
The way Dwarf Fortress does it, you build an area, put things into it, and then designate it (with a menu and selections) an area for, say, wood storage, or a living area. This is good, because you can build things however you want, and the Dwarfs live it in. Minecraft is a little different, because you are the dwarfs, and you don't always follow instructions. Sure, you could do it the old fashioned way and hollow out a large room and fill it with stone, or wood, or whatever. And for single player, that would be a lot simpler and easyer to do. Wonderful! but for larger co-op games having a designated storage area defined by the game would help organize things better, especially for newbies or for extremely large amounts of materials.
And after all, if you wanted to store things manually, you could always do that. Have a secret gold stash off to the side, eh?
Furthermore, these buildings could be constructed out of whatever you have on hand, and their appearance (and capacity, maybe) could change based on the material you made it from. Who knows? You could have it be completely modular, and build the pile with 1x1x1 "sections" that blend together into a larger building once connected and touching.
When I said personal designations I meant that the game doesn't even realize where the storage area is, because you've designated it yourself. I actually think this would make multiplayer very interesting, because the entire group actually has to work together and keep everyone in the loop.
You could probably use crates/barrels to deal with the issues of space (350 ore blocks would take up far too much space if it were 1:1 space-wise), but crates/barrels would still just be 1x1-sized (but the could hold, say, ten ore units) and you'd still have to put them SOMEWHERE.
I love Minecraft. It's an excellent game, right now, even in alpha. I can spend hours building elaborate structures and waterways, paths and gardens. But it does need more. The suggestions that follow are just my ideas, i'm sure you have a lot of things already planned out in your head, just please take a few mins to read this and consider.
Environmental interaction:
There are a few things you can do to interact with the environment in Minecraft: you can dig ditches and flood them with water or magma. You can drop sand onto things. You can provide paths for grass to grow even too deep underground caverns. All of these things are fun and you can spend hours figuring out the nuances in how to control these things, but that's about it. There needs to be dozens more interactions possible, and as more interactions come up more and more things can be done that no one even considered.
Water:
Well, first, limited water. Waterfalls. Pumps! Waterwheels. Floodgates. Contamination. Evaporation. Water that dissapates into the dirt if not connected to a source. Irrigation.
Dirt:
More plants. Irrigation. Fertile dirt, normal dirt, dry dirt, mud. Hardened dirt. Earthen fortifications. Farming.
Lava:
Death. Otherwise, lava works quite well. I would say keep infinite lava. I love the fact that you can't see into lava.
Stone:
More types of refined stone. Natural stone looks a little too even, maybe make slightly different types that look a bit different in the ground? More types of Ore? More Ore per map?
Plants:
Food production, obviously. Requires irrigation for larger scale. Artificial Light Sources. Mushrooms that can grow underground.
Wood:
More types of wood. Fire. Wood + lava = death for wood. More forests in survival mode.
Grass:
Grass seed. That is all.
Okay, and now to shake things up a little.
Multi-block prefab objects! bear with me a little.
If you are going to build, say, a mine in survival mode, a la Dwarf Fortress, you need a place to store things, to sleep, to build things, ect. Building these areas with blocks and then designating them is a little crude and complicated. Infiniminer did some basic resourcing with safe blocks.
So let's say you are building a mine and you come across some good Iron Ore. Excellent! Now I want to store this ore. So I pop open my handy build menu, and select "Ore storage- 5x5x3" Looks good. Now I see, instead of a single ghost construction block, a 5x5x3 ghost of this storage area. On a click, I get (minus the resources you need to build it, which are few enough to keep in a personal inventory) a large crate type box, that is solid, and has a counter on the outside. Mined Iron could be deposited into said box by hand or some sort of resource transit device, directly from the mine.
Furthermore, this Iron Ore Storage could be connected to a Workshop, a place, that when also connected to a Wood storage area, is able to produce items, say, arrows. A workshop could be solid, or enterable (with infinitely thin walls) but is built in the same was a Storage bin is built: a menu.
More buildings could be introduced: A mill, a slio, a barn, metalworking workshops, carpenters workshops, ect. Workshops could either be connected directly to a large resource cache or take directly from a players inventory. Some workshops would need to be connected to water, or lava, or need sunlight to function.
Building on this, building built out of wood or stone could work less efficiently than the same shops built out of Iron or Steel. This way, upon entering a mine complex, one could examine the buildings to judge a mine's level. "Hey! look! I have my Steel Forge hooked up to lava, Iron Ore, Water, and my Swordsmith! Now I can build Steel Swords!"
All in all, I'm suggesting a experience similar to a cross between what you have currently, Dwarf fortress (witch is WAAAY too complicated to be fun) and Infiniminer.
Just remember this: Keep it accessible to first time players, but give more dedicated players something they can get deep into.
I have no idea if you will even consider any of these suggestions, I don't even know if all of them are possible. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I do know that whatever the direction you take minecraft, It will be an excellent game.
-------
shozk
All of your ideas are amazing.
I support all of them, especially if they make the game a little more like DF.
What'd be really cool is having stuff either build when you stand near it (in it?), or build like engi buildings from TF2. So you have like a wrench, and if you hit it with the wrench it builds faster (or at all). Having like workshops to build stuff would be really cool.
Anyway, can't say I really disagree with any of it even though I'm on the fence about your elaborate resource storage idea.
Biggest kudos to your appraisal of lava; lava SHOULD be infinite (it melts down the things it touches rather than being absorbed), even though that may put a damper on volcanoes.
Relic of a bygone age.
Ok, I'm not sure about storage buildings. If we do have them, they should probably be small (e.g. 2x2x2) and not hold that much. I'd expect a 3x3x3 to hold around 500 resources, depending on the type. They'd also be generic storage - all the same, only differing in what and how much they can hold - to keep things simple.
Notch has already said we'll be able to hold stacks of resources in a single inventory slot. I'd expect maybe 30-50 for wood, maybe 15-25 for stone. 50 wood isn't really much. It'll only get a walled in 5x5 staircase 4 stories high (13 blocks per level), or a walled in 4x4 staircase 5 stories high (9 blocks per level). Although, I do guess that's quite high for survival.
The point of an elaborate resource storage system is...well....not to be too elaborate. DF has an extremely in-depth storage system with all sorts of different resources and systems that I haven't even gotten my head around.
However, it's also a lot of fun.
So here we have to trade off between DF style and say, Infiniminer style. Keep it accessible, but keep it possible to build huge industrial facilities for the pros.
Different sized buildings are a must, but this can be quite simple. Early in the game, you won't need more than 200-300 wood at at time, so having a huge storage facility would be pointless, expensive, and a waste of space. A storage building selection screen could have a list, with increasingly large storage units with an increasingly large cost to go with them.
Later mines, however, might be producing hundreds of units of resources a second, though either co-op mining or automation. In my opinion, these mines should not have to build hundreds of tiny interconnected storage units. A few larger ones would work fine and be impressive to any visitors.
Just one more thing: There needs to be some items that can only be produced with massive amounts of resources. Prestige items. High-level workshops. Super Weapons. Things like that, goals for advanced players, things that are actually very difficult to obtain.
I think your suggestions make the game a bit too complex, and far too automatic.
I like the idea of the player having to make personal designations for their structures, instead of being able to make what the game calls a storage area or something. It's simpler, and grants more control to the player regarding how to run their whatever-they're-making.
I like those
I know exactly what you mean.
The way Dwarf Fortress does it, you build an area, put things into it, and then designate it (with a menu and selections) an area for, say, wood storage, or a living area. This is good, because you can build things however you want, and the Dwarfs live it in. Minecraft is a little different, because you are the dwarfs, and you don't always follow instructions. Sure, you could do it the old fashioned way and hollow out a large room and fill it with stone, or wood, or whatever. And for single player, that would be a lot simpler and easyer to do. Wonderful! but for larger co-op games having a designated storage area defined by the game would help organize things better, especially for newbies or for extremely large amounts of materials.
And after all, if you wanted to store things manually, you could always do that. Have a secret gold stash off to the side, eh?
Furthermore, these buildings could be constructed out of whatever you have on hand, and their appearance (and capacity, maybe) could change based on the material you made it from. Who knows? You could have it be completely modular, and build the pile with 1x1x1 "sections" that blend together into a larger building once connected and touching.
In games like Minecraft, creativity is key.
Also: DOORS! That is all.
You could probably use crates/barrels to deal with the issues of space (350 ore blocks would take up far too much space if it were 1:1 space-wise), but crates/barrels would still just be 1x1-sized (but the could hold, say, ten ore units) and you'd still have to put them SOMEWHERE.