We craft basic tools out of raw material we harvest ourselves.
We mine using a basic pickax made by hand.
We use torches and the sun as our primary lighting sources.
We fight for our lives against rotting undead and odd green monsters.
We explore caves to find ancient ruins and magical loot.
We build portals out of dark violet obsidian.
We explore an alternate realm of fire, lava and floating monsters.
We battle with Flame Jetting Super Robots from Mars.
Do you notice anything that doesn't seem to fit in that list?
Like I said, only that you cram in about four different concepts into the last item. And your choice of words doesn't reflect what would actually happen in the game. They wouldn't be that different from Creepers.
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I think you are going to love my Survival Let's Play series on YouTube! It's called Spaceboot1's Garden. I make pretty things.
Like I said, only that you cram in about four different concepts into the last item. And your choice of words doesn't reflect what would actually happen in the game. They wouldn't be that different from Creepers.
Fine. Let's just call them Robots from Mars. Not even mentioning the fact that minecraft doesn't take place in the same world that mars does, robots of any kind would be a total theme wrecker: Minecraft takes place in a fantasy world, and notch himself has turned down ideas for not being fantasy.
How about realistic to some degree. We have monsters and stuff, but that doesnt mean there should be aliens that come from the sky, or gods and stuff. Kind of hard to explain.
Thanks! But I also see you voted that minecraft was not a <blank> themed game. Care to tell me which of these themes you don't think minecraft is?
Minecraft isn't medieval. Its fantasy. People think its medieval with everyone building castles, and primitive tools. But its about you trying to build what ever you can if you woke up with nothing.
Minecraft is a creative game. It is all about surviving in a world by building your own base, farm, mine, what-have-you.
As currently planned, with the 3 different modes, the "finished" product (I don't think it'll ever be truly finished) will be a bit more comprehensive than that. So maybe expand on this a bit?
Minecraft is a fantasy game. We have zombies, skeletons, magic dust, portals, and a realm of fire. In this way, sometimes non-fantasy elements will stick out. Now, fantasy is a very diverse genra, so it can be hard to judge what is fantasy and what is not. Fantasy worlds, as a general statement, include magic, monsters, and many things that this world does not have, while often excluding modern technology and taking place in a medieval type era. Now, this isn't always true, and there is much room in the fantasy genera, so this leaves a lot of room for people to suggest their take on minecraft fantasy.
- Notch has referred to the setting as being "pseudo-fantasy". Might wanna use that.
- I wouldn't refer to any particular era. The world doesn't have a defined era (which you later mention), and when stuff like that starts getting declared definitively, that's where the deeper implications and conceptual restrictions start.
The setting is very loosely defined, the fantasy elements light, sometimes even goofy. The world is not locked into any particular time period or level of technological advancement. All this allows for conceptual freedom. Notch can leave out what he wants and add what he wants, without having to provide some lengthy logical explanation for it. I'm thinking that's probably deliberate. Nothing actually has to make sense. It simply is. I think that trips a lot of people up.
The only real measures for suggestions are the "pseudo-fantasy" feel and the basic design intent of the game. Unfortunately "pseudo-fantasy" isn't much to go on, and, to my knowledge, no comprehensive summary of the design intent has ever been offered.
Still, I think we can infer from the game we have that simplicity is a guiding principle of the design. Complexity is largely left for the players to create.
Well, thinking about that matter, I came to the conclusion that there is somehow the need to balance the theme. For example we ideed have tnt (invented 1863). Some people which to include guns, let's say the arquebus (invented 15th century). But adding the last one strike the theme somehow. Both is not really typical fantasy and both is not really medieval. But tnt does not strike, which is strange. So I wonder what would be if we had not tnt, but the arquebus already in the game? Is that alone problematic or is adding more and more "modern" elements problematic?
Maybe not everything has to fit the theme, but it cannot be overexpanded to much. I think this is why there can be "modern" suggestions fitting the theme somehow.
See, this is the thing I was referring to above. Everything must fit into the look and feel (and conform with design intent). That's a given. However, Notch has created a scenario wherein just about anything could fit into the look and feel, as long as the concept was made to work with it.
People bring up guns a lot. Firearms could certainly be presented in such a way that they would fit right into the Minecraft aesthetic. Tech level doesn't really have anything to do with it, because, as you've already pointed out, it's all over the place as it is. It really comes down to if it feels right.
Which is no help to any of us, really, because the person it currently has to feel right for is Notch. The OP has taken on an extremely difficult task in essentially trying to quantify Notch's design aesthetic to some helpful degree. He seems to be operating intuitively a lot of the time.
I stumbled across another theme while posting in one of the latest Coloured Glass threads.
Minecraft is about Exploration. Items and materials work really well in Minecraft when they encourage players to visit and explore new areas of the map, and try out new types of gameplay. That's why wool dyes come from a variety of sources, rather than a flower for every colour. So players are encouraged to visit different biomes, travel to new areas underground, and to try out different crafting strategies like using the furnace.
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I think you are going to love my Survival Let's Play series on YouTube! It's called Spaceboot1's Garden. I make pretty things.
As currently planned, with the 3 different modes, the "finished" product (I don't think it'll ever be truly finished) will be a bit more comprehensive than that. So maybe expand on this a bit?
Yeah, I will say that the current mode is sandbox, and that more will most likely be added, so non-sandbox stuff would have to go in there. Sounds good.
- Notch has referred to the setting as being "pseudo-fantasy". Might wanna use that.
- I wouldn't refer to any particular era. The world doesn't have a defined era (which you later mention), and when stuff like that starts getting declared definitively, that's where the deeper implications and conceptual restrictions start.
The setting is very loosely defined, the fantasy elements light, sometimes even goofy. The world is not locked into any particular time period or level of technological advancement. All this allows for conceptual freedom. Notch can leave out what he wants and add what he wants, without having to provide some lengthy logical explanation for it. I'm thinking that's probably deliberate. Nothing actually has to make sense. It simply is. I think that trips a lot of people up.
The only real measures for suggestions are the "pseudo-fantasy" feel and the basic design intent of the game. Unfortunately "pseudo-fantasy" isn't much to go on, and, to my knowledge, no comprehensive summary of the design intent has ever been offered.
Still, I think we can infer from the game we have that simplicity is a guiding principle of the design. Complexity is largely left for the players to create.
-That would be a good term to use.
-I'm not saying that minecraft is medieval, I'm just saying that most fantasy settings are. If enough people complain, I will take this down.
Fantasy doesn't need to be serious or explained, it just needs to be magical on a basic level. Pseudo-fantasy does have an explanation: It basically means that it takes place in a world with prominent magic, but the plot of the story does not necessarily use this magic as a primary element. This fits minecraft pretty well: There is definitely magic all around, but not everything you do involves it directly.
Well, thinking about that matter, I came to the conclusion that there is somehow the need to balance the theme. For example we ideed have tnt (invented 1863). Some people which to include guns, let's say the arquebus (invented 15th century). But adding the last one strike the theme somehow. Both is not really typical fantasy and both is not really medieval. But tnt does not strike, which is strange. So I wonder what would be if we had not tnt, but the arquebus already in the game? Is that alone problematic or is adding more and more "modern" elements problematic?
Maybe not everything has to fit the theme, but it cannot be overexpanded to much. I think this is why there can be "modern" suggestions fitting the theme somehow.
Another thing is, people may to confuse these four types of themes you worked out. For example the complaint about gun suggestion could also be based on the fact, that people don't want any more "killing"-tools in the sandbox game, while claiming they are to modern.
TNT is a rather strange element to minecraft. I sometime wonder if notch threw it in just to confuse us. Because really, there is nothing else in the game with that theme, and it seems to stick out in my mind. If I were notch, I would change it to just a bomb. But I am not notch, and I don't know what he was thinking with that. I would say that no, not every thing has to fit the theme, but it would be better if it did. Wether or not a "modern" thing fits the game is dependent on how it fits the pseudo-fantasy setting.
I don't think that these will be confused: just that one suggestion my violate more then one.
I stumbled across another theme while posting in one of the latest Coloured Glass threads.
Minecraft is about Exploration. Items and materials work really well in Minecraft when they encourage players to visit and explore new areas of the map, and try out new types of gameplay. That's why wool dyes come from a variety of sources, rather than a flower for every colour. So players are encouraged to visit different biomes, travel to new areas underground, and to try out different crafting strategies like using the furnace.
That is a neat idea, but I think it is mostly covered in sandbox. Lots of options.
TNT is a rather strange element to minecraft. I sometime wonder if notch threw it in just to confuse us. Because really, there is nothing else in the game with that theme, and it seems to stick out in my mind. If I were notch, I would change it to just a bomb. But I am not notch, and I don't know what he was thinking with that. I would say that no, not every thing has to fit the theme, but it would be better if it did. Wether or not a "modern" thing fits the game is dependent on how it fits the pseudo-fantasy setting.
I've had a similar thought regarding TNT. It's mostly a matter of skinning, which I think is why Notch hasn't bothered to change it yet, since texture and language packs can handle it. But "TNT" is an example of something in Minecraft that doesn't fit the theme. In order to fit, it really should be re-skinned as a powder keg, or whatever.
That's part of the reason why ideas fitting the theme doesn't always work as a guideline for judging good and bad ideas. Because a really awesome idea might not seem Minecrafty if it's described in science fiction terms, but it would fit just fine if you change it to fantasy. The mechanics stay the same though. And Minecraft is a very mechanics-heavy game.
This could also be considered a part of the theme of Minecraft, in that it doesn't have a story-based theme at all.
In Minecraft, interesting mechanics and crunchy tools seem to take precedent over story and fluff. The game is designed with the theory that interesting stories will emerge on their own from crunchy and versatile mechanics. Skins and texture packs can handle more thematic elements, in the few cases where users feel like the game mechanics can't accomplish it.
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I think you are going to love my Survival Let's Play series on YouTube! It's called Spaceboot1's Garden. I make pretty things.
I've had a similar thought regarding TNT. It's mostly a matter of skinning, which I think is why Notch hasn't bothered to change it yet, since texture and language packs can handle it. But "TNT" is an example of something in Minecraft that doesn't fit the theme. In order to fit, it really should be re-skinned as a powder keg, or whatever.
That's part of the reason why ideas fitting the theme doesn't always work as a guideline for judging good and bad ideas. Because a really awesome idea might not seem Minecrafty if it's described in science fiction terms, but it would fit just fine if you change it to fantasy. The mechanics stay the same though. And Minecraft is a very mechanics-heavy game.
This could also be considered a part of the theme of Minecraft, in that it doesn't have a story-based theme at all.
In Minecraft, interesting mechanics and crunchy tools seem to take precedent over story and fluff. The game is designed with the theory that interesting stories will emerge on their own from crunchy and versatile mechanics. Skins and texture packs can handle more thematic elements, in the few cases where users feel like the game mechanics can't accomplish it.
You know, that is a really good point. I will add a paragraph to the bottom about how a non-fitting suggestion can turn into a fitting one with simply a different way of thinking about it.
Like I said, only that you cram in about four different concepts into the last item. And your choice of words doesn't reflect what would actually happen in the game. They wouldn't be that different from Creepers.
Want to play Minecraft SSP like Spaceboot1? Try my modpack, all mods made by me, Spaceboot1!
(I voted yes and yes nonetheless, and I thank you for this.)
Fine. Let's just call them Robots from Mars. Not even mentioning the fact that minecraft doesn't take place in the same world that mars does, robots of any kind would be a total theme wrecker: Minecraft takes place in a fantasy world, and notch himself has turned down ideas for not being fantasy.
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Ah well, it could use a bump.
Vulcan originally was the name of the Roman god of fire, blacksmithing, and volcanoes (never would have seen that coming!). Not exactly a planet.
Humorous suggestions are not taken nearly as seriously, and are different from simply stupid suggestions that someone expects to be put into the game.
Minecraft isn't medieval. Its fantasy. People think its medieval with everyone building castles, and primitive tools. But its about you trying to build what ever you can if you woke up with nothing.
I wish I was in this :C
Derp. I had intended to edit my double post so it would just be sitting there, and failed miserably.
As currently planned, with the 3 different modes, the "finished" product (I don't think it'll ever be truly finished) will be a bit more comprehensive than that. So maybe expand on this a bit?
- Notch has referred to the setting as being "pseudo-fantasy". Might wanna use that.
- I wouldn't refer to any particular era. The world doesn't have a defined era (which you later mention), and when stuff like that starts getting declared definitively, that's where the deeper implications and conceptual restrictions start.
The setting is very loosely defined, the fantasy elements light, sometimes even goofy. The world is not locked into any particular time period or level of technological advancement. All this allows for conceptual freedom. Notch can leave out what he wants and add what he wants, without having to provide some lengthy logical explanation for it. I'm thinking that's probably deliberate. Nothing actually has to make sense. It simply is. I think that trips a lot of people up.
The only real measures for suggestions are the "pseudo-fantasy" feel and the basic design intent of the game. Unfortunately "pseudo-fantasy" isn't much to go on, and, to my knowledge, no comprehensive summary of the design intent has ever been offered.
Still, I think we can infer from the game we have that simplicity is a guiding principle of the design. Complexity is largely left for the players to create.
See, this is the thing I was referring to above. Everything must fit into the look and feel (and conform with design intent). That's a given. However, Notch has created a scenario wherein just about anything could fit into the look and feel, as long as the concept was made to work with it.
People bring up guns a lot. Firearms could certainly be presented in such a way that they would fit right into the Minecraft aesthetic. Tech level doesn't really have anything to do with it, because, as you've already pointed out, it's all over the place as it is. It really comes down to if it feels right.
Which is no help to any of us, really, because the person it currently has to feel right for is Notch. The OP has taken on an extremely difficult task in essentially trying to quantify Notch's design aesthetic to some helpful degree. He seems to be operating intuitively a lot of the time.
Minecraft is about Exploration. Items and materials work really well in Minecraft when they encourage players to visit and explore new areas of the map, and try out new types of gameplay. That's why wool dyes come from a variety of sources, rather than a flower for every colour. So players are encouraged to visit different biomes, travel to new areas underground, and to try out different crafting strategies like using the furnace.
Want to play Minecraft SSP like Spaceboot1? Try my modpack, all mods made by me, Spaceboot1!
Just kidding. :wink.gif: That's a lot to think about. This is my response:
Yeah, I will say that the current mode is sandbox, and that more will most likely be added, so non-sandbox stuff would have to go in there. Sounds good.
-That would be a good term to use.
-I'm not saying that minecraft is medieval, I'm just saying that most fantasy settings are. If enough people complain, I will take this down.
Fantasy doesn't need to be serious or explained, it just needs to be magical on a basic level. Pseudo-fantasy does have an explanation: It basically means that it takes place in a world with prominent magic, but the plot of the story does not necessarily use this magic as a primary element. This fits minecraft pretty well: There is definitely magic all around, but not everything you do involves it directly.
TNT is a rather strange element to minecraft. I sometime wonder if notch threw it in just to confuse us. Because really, there is nothing else in the game with that theme, and it seems to stick out in my mind. If I were notch, I would change it to just a bomb. But I am not notch, and I don't know what he was thinking with that. I would say that no, not every thing has to fit the theme, but it would be better if it did. Wether or not a "modern" thing fits the game is dependent on how it fits the pseudo-fantasy setting.
I don't think that these will be confused: just that one suggestion my violate more then one.
That is a neat idea, but I think it is mostly covered in sandbox. Lots of options.
I've had a similar thought regarding TNT. It's mostly a matter of skinning, which I think is why Notch hasn't bothered to change it yet, since texture and language packs can handle it. But "TNT" is an example of something in Minecraft that doesn't fit the theme. In order to fit, it really should be re-skinned as a powder keg, or whatever.
That's part of the reason why ideas fitting the theme doesn't always work as a guideline for judging good and bad ideas. Because a really awesome idea might not seem Minecrafty if it's described in science fiction terms, but it would fit just fine if you change it to fantasy. The mechanics stay the same though. And Minecraft is a very mechanics-heavy game.
This could also be considered a part of the theme of Minecraft, in that it doesn't have a story-based theme at all.
In Minecraft, interesting mechanics and crunchy tools seem to take precedent over story and fluff. The game is designed with the theory that interesting stories will emerge on their own from crunchy and versatile mechanics. Skins and texture packs can handle more thematic elements, in the few cases where users feel like the game mechanics can't accomplish it.
Want to play Minecraft SSP like Spaceboot1? Try my modpack, all mods made by me, Spaceboot1!
You know, that is a really good point. I will add a paragraph to the bottom about how a non-fitting suggestion can turn into a fitting one with simply a different way of thinking about it.
Most suggestions add more then what you can do with what is added. IE Complex suggestion, low amount of uses.
Minecraft is a simple game. It's as complex as you want it to be.
The Sun rises in the North!Now these points of data make a beautiful line...
Yeah, I might add a section on simple. But that seems more about gameplay.