Also, I made a thread in forum discussions to replace Kira's with this, but the mod who replied said this was more biased, I asked why, and i'm waiting for a response.
That's not what I'm saying at all. I am saying that it is a very good example of fantasy for people who don't understand what a fantasy world is. What fantasy world would you like me to mention?
Fantasy isn't about any one world or vision. The only thing that defines fantasy is any sort of fiction that depicts a kind of supernatural force. Thus, I feel that citing "fantasy" as a reason to shoot down a suggestion is a bad idea.
Fantasy isn't about any one world or vision. The only thing that defines fantasy is any sort of fiction that depicts a kind of supernatural force. Thus, I feel that citing "fantasy" as a reason to shoot down a suggestion is a bad idea.
I have to disagree with you on that. If there was an old west movie that had a abandoned town with ghosts in it but nothing else supernatural, that wouldn't be fantasy, really. I think I will take out the part about Lord of the Rings and Dungeons and Dragons, but a fantasy still is a part of minecraft. For example, flame jetting super robots from mars would not fit a fantasy theme.
Fantasy isn't about any one world or vision. The only thing that defines fantasy is any sort of fiction that depicts a kind of supernatural force. Thus, I feel that citing "fantasy" as a reason to shoot down a suggestion is a bad idea.
Many people who suggest non-fantasy items are nearly always un-original. Fantasy items, being that they don't exist, literally provide infinite possibilities.
I have to disagree with you on that. If there was an old west movie that had a abandoned town with ghosts in it but nothing else supernatural, that wouldn't be fantasy, really. I think I will take out the part about Lord of the Rings and Dungeons and Dragons, but a fantasy still is a part of minecraft. For example, flame jetting super robots from mars would not fit a fantasy theme.
There IS no fantasy theme. Ghost-hunting cowboys are just as much "Fantasy" ghost-hunting wizards or ghost-hunting space marines. If the flame jetting super robot from Mars ran on magic, it'd be fantasy!
Many people who suggest non-fantasy items are nearly always un-original. Fantasy items, being that they don't exist, literally provide infinite possibilities.
If the suggestion is un-original, judge it on that criteria.
There IS no fantasy theme. Ghost-hunting cowboys are just as much "Fantasy" ghost-hunting wizards or ghost-hunting space marines. If the flame jetting super robot from Mars ran on magic, it'd be fantasy!
To say there is no fantasy is really dumb. Fantasy is not the same as magic. If the flame jetting sup FJSRfM ran on magic, then that would be a very weird book, and most definitely not fantasy.
Of course, at this point we just have different views of that theme.
There IS no fantasy theme. Ghost-hunting cowboys are just as much "Fantasy" ghost-hunting wizards or ghost-hunting space marines. If the flame jetting super robot from Mars ran on magic, it'd be fantasy!
Wikipedia: Fantasy is a genre of fiction that uses magic and other supernatural phenomena as a primary element of plot, theme, or setting. If the fuel was the primary element than yes it would be fantasy.
Wikipedia: Fantasy is a genre of fiction that uses magic and other supernatural phenomena as a primary element of plot, theme, or setting. If the fuel was the primary element than yes it would be fantasy.
Ha! I'll bet you edited that article your self! LIER! /joke
To say there is no fantasy is really dumb. Fantasy is not the same as magic. If the flame jetting sup FJSRfM ran on magic, then that would be a very weird book, and most definitely not fantasy.
Of course, at this point we just have different views of that theme.
And that attitude is why I feel this topic is too biased to deserve a sticky.
And that attitude is why I feel this topic is too biased to deserve a sticky.
I suppose. But I still have points that are important, and people should understand them. The very specifics of the minecraft theme are not what I'm looking for, I am just trying to guide suggestions to fit the theme more, and more people would see this if it was pinned.
Jens was working on integrating/tweaking the Piston mod, which will probably get delayed as a result of this. We don’t want to just add it as-is because it doesn’t quite feel “fantasy” enough, and there’s a lot of corner cases we need to solve.
Notch doesn't feel that the simple piston mod piston is fantasy enough. Notch obviously takes the fantasy element very seriously. The bar is set very high on this category.
I don't think Minecraft's theme can be accurately categorized, as it really isn't one thing. Let me go into detail:
Unique
Minecraft certainly is unique, but that's because it brings together tons of different elements. Mimicing some other fantasy setting would be just fine, as long as it's not completely changing the game.
Creative
I really agree with you here, but it's kind of obvious; things should be given priority based on their diversity, as sandbox games need as much to do as possible.
Fantasy
Nope. Fantasy is insanely widely encompassing; I can create a book set in our world, modern day, but with magic being a large part of it (possibly with magic taking dominance over technology), and it will still be fantasy, even though there are cars and phones and the like. Similarly, what about a world set in medieval times, but when magical contraptions serve functions similar to modern day devices? There could be what's essentially a car that runs on magic, and it would still be a very fantasy setting. Heck, I recently read a bit of a book called Fever Crumb, which included what is essentially a train, but the book was still in a medievalish setting! This point just doesn't work, because fantasy is just too diverse (really, there are more fantasy books that don't take place in medieval times, or have modern-like conveniences in medieval times, then there are fantasy books in generic medieval settings).
Survival
I dunno, but I don't think someone who woke up in a strange place would be able to make minecarts/minecart tracks, or proper working doors, or wool, or anything of that sort. Sure, this works with very advanced things, but your point is too restrictive.
I don't think Minecraft's theme can be accurately categorized, as it really isn't one thing. Let me go into detail:
Unique
Minecraft certainly is unique, but that's because it brings together tons of different elements. Mimicing some other fantasy setting would be just fine, as long as it's not completely changing the game.
Creative
I really agree with you here, but it's kind of obvious; things should be given priority based on their diversity, as sandbox games need as much to do as possible.
Fantasy
I can't agree with this at all. I certainly can't imagine something like Redstone in LOTR or D&D, nor can I imagine the Nether in those, or creepers, or powered minecart tracks--and doesn't this contradict your previous statement that Minecraft shouldn't be like anything else? LOTR and D&D are pretty wide-ranged fantasy, but still.
Survival
I dunno, but I don't think someone who woke up in a strange place would be able to make minecarts/minecart tracks, or proper working doors, or wool, or anything of that sort. Sure, this works with very advanced things, but your point is too restrictive.
Sandbox
Totally. But isn't this kind of obvious?
I am not saying that I little fantasy from other things is bad. It should just not be too stereotypical.
What is obvious to some isn't to others. That's why they have to have the rule "Be Polite" in the rules, when for most people this is common sense.
Why can't you see this stuff in D&D or LOTR? I'm not really even talking about those. I'm trying to explain fantasy. Also, if you look at the thread, you will notice I removed those a while ago.
I will agree that this area needs some work, but I think there is a point to be made.
Again, what is obvious to some is not to others.
Thanks for these comments, everyone! I hope I don't appear negative, I do appreciate the comments to strengthen this thread!
:dry.gif: Ha ha. You took all of the things out of context. Are you serious in the fact that you think that minecraft is not a fantasy, or are you just joking? If I have to, I can go into a much more detailed description with each of these.
I seriously do think it isn't fantasy, especially with pistons being added. Of course, fantasy is a very broad topic, but the examples you listed (Dungeons and Dragons and Lord of the Rings) follow certain tropes (I believe you could call them 'high fantasy') that Minecraft certainly doesn't follow. Though fantasy is such a broad topic that I think Minecraft could fit in, but by extension, just about anything could fit in.
I am not saying that I little fantasy from other things is bad. It should just not be too stereotypical.
What is obvious to some isn't to others. That's why they have to have the rule "Be Polite" in the rules, when for most people this is common sense.
Why can't you see this stuff in D&D or LOTR? I'm not really even talking about those. I'm trying to explain fantasy. Also, if you look at the thread, you will notice I removed those a while ago.
I will agree that this area needs some work, but I think there is a point to be made.
Again, what is obvious to some is not to others.
Thanks for these comments, everyone! I hope I don't appear negative, I do appreciate the comments to strengthen this thread!
Stereotypical how?
I suppose you're right.
Just how long did it take you to post that reply? I edited that out shortly after posting. I can't see those things being in LOTR or D&D for a few reasons; first, I can't imagine Redstone in those because Redstone is essentially electric wires, which is completely out of place. Second, the Nether is something that completely clashes with how those universes work. Third, creepers just don't make sense in either of those settings, as they're both very well thought out and logical worlds; creepers are not. Fourth, powered minecart tracks not only work with no conceivable reason, but they also make use of redstone, which I previously said why they don't work.
There is always a point to be made, anywhere, regardless of whether or not it's right.
I seriously do think it isn't fantasy, especially with pistons being added. Of course, fantasy is a very broad topic, but the examples you listed (Dungeons and Dragons and Lord of the Rings) follow certain tropes (I believe you could call them 'high fantasy') that Minecraft certainly doesn't follow. Though fantasy is such a broad topic that I think Minecraft could fit in, but by extension, just about anything could fit in.
*Sigh* I hate it when people use pistons as an argument, when it is really the other way around. Look at this:
Just how long did it take you to post that reply? I edited that out shortly after posting. I can't see those things being in LOTR or D&D for a few reasons; first, I can't imagine Redstone in those because Redstone is essentially electric wires, which is completely out of place. Second, the Nether is something that completely clashes with how those universes work. Third, creepers just don't make sense in either of those settings, as they're both very well thought out and logical worlds; creepers are not. Fourth, powered minecart tracks not only work with no conceivable reason, but they also make use of redstone, which I previously said why they don't work.
There is always a point to be made, anywhere, regardless of whether or not it's right.
Again, you are right.
A stereotypical fantasy setting would have dwarfs, elves, goblins, trolls, staffs, pointed wizard hats, and dragons. That's not what I want for minecraft.
It did take me a while to make that post. That's because I ate a sandwich in the middle XD. Redstone is very different from electrical weirs. While it is based on them, it is clearly magical, and different from electricity. I know how the D&D universes work, and I am saying that the nether could be part of it. I mean, the elemental chaos is somewhat similar to the nether, and the astral seas are kind of like the new sky dimension notch will eventually add. I am not saying that mincraft should be like D&D, but rather that D&D is a good reference for the fantasy theme.
Thank you! I kinda had that in mind, see as a lot of people find that unbalance and biased.
I hate how my poll showed that thread was 20/20 on it should stay, to it should die.
I don't think it's that bad, but rather should be covered in something much more broad and concise.
Fantasy isn't about any one world or vision. The only thing that defines fantasy is any sort of fiction that depicts a kind of supernatural force. Thus, I feel that citing "fantasy" as a reason to shoot down a suggestion is a bad idea.
I have to disagree with you on that. If there was an old west movie that had a abandoned town with ghosts in it but nothing else supernatural, that wouldn't be fantasy, really. I think I will take out the part about Lord of the Rings and Dungeons and Dragons, but a fantasy still is a part of minecraft. For example, flame jetting super robots from mars would not fit a fantasy theme.
Many people who suggest non-fantasy items are nearly always un-original. Fantasy items, being that they don't exist, literally provide infinite possibilities.
There IS no fantasy theme. Ghost-hunting cowboys are just as much "Fantasy" ghost-hunting wizards or ghost-hunting space marines. If the flame jetting super robot from Mars ran on magic, it'd be fantasy!
If the suggestion is un-original, judge it on that criteria.
To say there is no fantasy is really dumb. Fantasy is not the same as magic. If the
flame jetting supFJSRfM ran on magic, then that would be a very weird book, and most definitely not fantasy.Of course, at this point we just have different views of that theme.
Wikipedia: Fantasy is a genre of fiction that uses magic and other supernatural phenomena as a primary element of plot, theme, or setting. If the fuel was the primary element than yes it would be fantasy.
Ha! I'll bet you edited that article your self! LIER! /joke
And that attitude is why I feel this topic is too biased to deserve a sticky.
I suppose. But I still have points that are important, and people should understand them. The very specifics of the minecraft theme are not what I'm looking for, I am just trying to guide suggestions to fit the theme more, and more people would see this if it was pinned.
Notch doesn't feel that the simple piston mod piston is fantasy enough. Notch obviously takes the fantasy element very seriously. The bar is set very high on this category.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
Unique
Minecraft certainly is unique, but that's because it brings together tons of different elements. Mimicing some other fantasy setting would be just fine, as long as it's not completely changing the game.
Creative
I really agree with you here, but it's kind of obvious; things should be given priority based on their diversity, as sandbox games need as much to do as possible.
Fantasy
Nope. Fantasy is insanely widely encompassing; I can create a book set in our world, modern day, but with magic being a large part of it (possibly with magic taking dominance over technology), and it will still be fantasy, even though there are cars and phones and the like. Similarly, what about a world set in medieval times, but when magical contraptions serve functions similar to modern day devices? There could be what's essentially a car that runs on magic, and it would still be a very fantasy setting. Heck, I recently read a bit of a book called Fever Crumb, which included what is essentially a train, but the book was still in a medievalish setting! This point just doesn't work, because fantasy is just too diverse (really, there are more fantasy books that don't take place in medieval times, or have modern-like conveniences in medieval times, then there are fantasy books in generic medieval settings).
Survival
I dunno, but I don't think someone who woke up in a strange place would be able to make minecarts/minecart tracks, or proper working doors, or wool, or anything of that sort. Sure, this works with very advanced things, but your point is too restrictive.
Sandbox
Totally. But isn't this kind of obvious?
I am not saying that I little fantasy from other things is bad. It should just not be too stereotypical.
What is obvious to some isn't to others. That's why they have to have the rule "Be Polite" in the rules, when for most people this is common sense.
Why can't you see this stuff in D&D or LOTR? I'm not really even talking about those. I'm trying to explain fantasy. Also, if you look at the thread, you will notice I removed those a while ago.
I will agree that this area needs some work, but I think there is a point to be made.
Again, what is obvious to some is not to others.
Thanks for these comments, everyone! I hope I don't appear negative, I do appreciate the comments to strengthen this thread!
I seriously do think it isn't fantasy, especially with pistons being added. Of course, fantasy is a very broad topic, but the examples you listed (Dungeons and Dragons and Lord of the Rings) follow certain tropes (I believe you could call them 'high fantasy') that Minecraft certainly doesn't follow. Though fantasy is such a broad topic that I think Minecraft could fit in, but by extension, just about anything could fit in.
Stereotypical how?
I suppose you're right.
Just how long did it take you to post that reply? I edited that out shortly after posting. I can't see those things being in LOTR or D&D for a few reasons; first, I can't imagine Redstone in those because Redstone is essentially electric wires, which is completely out of place. Second, the Nether is something that completely clashes with how those universes work. Third, creepers just don't make sense in either of those settings, as they're both very well thought out and logical worlds; creepers are not. Fourth, powered minecart tracks not only work with no conceivable reason, but they also make use of redstone, which I previously said why they don't work.
There is always a point to be made, anywhere, regardless of whether or not it's right.
Again, you are right.
*Sigh* I hate it when people use pistons as an argument, when it is really the other way around. Look at this:
Also, I don't see how minecraft doesn't fit with the themes of D&D and LOTR. With all of the magical elements in it, minecraft is easily fantasy.
A stereotypical fantasy setting would have dwarfs, elves, goblins, trolls, staffs, pointed wizard hats, and dragons. That's not what I want for minecraft.
It did take me a while to make that post. That's because I ate a sandwich in the middle XD. Redstone is very different from electrical weirs. While it is based on them, it is clearly magical, and different from electricity. I know how the D&D universes work, and I am saying that the nether could be part of it. I mean, the elemental chaos is somewhat similar to the nether, and the astral seas are kind of like the new sky dimension notch will eventually add. I am not saying that mincraft should be like D&D, but rather that D&D is a good reference for the fantasy theme.